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Official US Women's soccer thread: Gold Cup Final- US 1 - Brazil 0! (1 Viewer)

It would take a big upset to occur but the US is in the very unusual position that they likely need a result (a draw) in the last game to advance.

If US loses to Portugal and The Netherlands at least draws with Vietnam, the US is out.
 
NewlyRetired said:
It would take a big upset to occur but the US is in the very unusual position that they likely need a result (a draw) in the last game to advance.

If US loses to Portugal and The Netherlands at least draws with Vietnam, the US is out.
Click to expand...
Odds on that have to be like -1000 I think.
 
Horan their best player so far. Even against non midget players yesterday, she imposed her authority in the middle of the pitch. Morgan should continue dropping deep to spring her wings who have better speed. If Rodman is off, pull her as she's not going to get a shot on frame. Dunn is still the quickest player on the field and a good 1v1 defender but it feels like she's lost some game smarts or maybe she was making it up for it in the past with superior speed. The right back (Fox?) feels like she'll give up a goal when she gets beat or loses her mark.
 
The Z Machine said:
NewlyRetired said:
It would take a big upset to occur but the US is in the very unusual position that they likely need a result (a draw) in the last game to advance.

If US loses to Portugal and The Netherlands at least draws with Vietnam, the US is out.
Click to expand...
Odds on that have to be like -1000 I think.
Click to expand...
I agree, that is why I mentioned a big upset. But the general point was that I don't think we have ever even had to think about it before. The 3rd game was almost always a rest game for the US where it could rotate a ton of players and be fresh for the knock out round. They actually need to pay attention to this game.

And while getting knocked out is certainly a long shot, coming in second and getting a possibly tougher path in the knock out stages is not a long shot.
 
rip
NewlyRetired said:
The Z Machine said:
NewlyRetired said:
It would take a big upset to occur but the US is in the very unusual position that they likely need a result (a draw) in the last game to advance.

If US loses to Portugal and The Netherlands at least draws with Vietnam, the US is out.
Click to expand...
Odds on that have to be like -1000 I think.
Click to expand...
I agree, that is why I mentioned a big upset. But the general point was that I don't think we have ever even had to think about it before. The 3rd game was almost always a rest game for the US where it could rotate a ton of players and be fresh for the knock out round. They actually need to pay attention to this game.

And while getting knocked out is certainly a long shot, coming in second and getting a possibly tougher path in the knock out stages is not a long shot.
Click to expand...
Holg up, there aren't nearly as many competitive teams in this bracket as the men.

Would be facing the winner of Sweden Italy today. :Yawn:
 
Couple thoughts...

The dutch goal, the US gk got her angles all wrong, resetting herself as the ball moved from left back into the middle far too much to the left side. Not discussed, but a big amateurish error that didn't give her a chance to make a save far post. Granted, it was a well taken shot... But her positioning gave her no chance.

US energy dominated the early going and the dutch looked unsettled and nervous... Lots of poor passes and touches and getting beat to the 1st and 2nd ball. But they composed themselves and took over the flow of the game with better tactical shape, touch and awareness than the US.

After the 1st ball, the US seemed unaware what to do with the 2dn or 3rd... Runners, shape... Just no understanding of next steps past the initial. This is where the Dutch were far better- more soccer mature and savvy, even if the net didn't lead to lots of goal chances.

Only players who seem aware of tlnext level thinking are Horan (best player on the field) and Morgan. Without Morgan, Smith and Rodman get nothing.
 
Anyone else think that field last night looked absurdly narrow?

Maybe it's just that everything seemed compacted to the middle third of the field but man, it looked like there was literally no room to operate even when the ball went outside. It was like the sideline was on top of everyone as soon as the ball went out there.
 
The US also looked like they were on autopilot the first half. Part way through the 2nd half is the first time they started to slip the gears and play with another level of desire... Win them a lot of 2nd balls and gave them a big advantage against slightly lesser athletes
 
ChiefD said:
Anyone else think that field last night looked absurdly narrow?

Maybe it's just that everything seemed compacted to the middle third of the field but man, it looked like there was literally no room to operate even when the ball went outside. It was like the sideline was on top of everyone as soon as the ball went out there.
Click to expand...
The US had almost no width... So that didn't help.
 
culdeus said:
rip
NewlyRetired said:
The Z Machine said:
NewlyRetired said:
It would take a big upset to occur but the US is in the very unusual position that they likely need a result (a draw) in the last game to advance.

If US loses to Portugal and The Netherlands at least draws with Vietnam, the US is out.
Click to expand...
Odds on that have to be like -1000 I think.
Click to expand...
I agree, that is why I mentioned a big upset. But the general point was that I don't think we have ever even had to think about it before. The 3rd game was almost always a rest game for the US where it could rotate a ton of players and be fresh for the knock out round. They actually need to pay attention to this game.

And while getting knocked out is certainly a long shot, coming in second and getting a possibly tougher path in the knock out stages is not a long shot.
Click to expand...
Holg up, there aren't nearly as many competitive teams in this bracket as the men.

Would be facing the winner of Sweden Italy today. :Yawn:
Click to expand...
Sweden is the 3rd ranked team in the world right now. You don't typically want to face high ranked teams as early as the round of 16.

It is unlikely to happen so I agree to your yawn.
 
Everyone dogging on the coach because his players will be tired for the next game needs to get a grip. They have five rest days before the next match.

Everyone dogging on the coach because he's managed to disorganize both his midfield and defense behind a pair of wingers that don't link very well with the midfield have a pretty compelling case IMO.

Lavelle has to start. And if there's ANY sort of bench depth at CB, I'd consider pairing Ertz and Horan behind Lavelle and maybe removing either Smith or Rodman for a wing that can link up, hold the ball, and create something when they aren't on the counter.
They're getting by on talent right now, but the team is pretty disjointed.
 
El Floppo said:
The US also looked like they were on autopilot the first half. Part way through the 2nd half is the first time they started to slip the gears and play with another level of desire... Win them a lot of 2nd balls and gave them a big advantage against slightly lesser athletes
Click to expand...
I only watched the second half so I can't comment on the first. The US was the better team, by far, in the last 45 minutes. The Dutch got into the US area I think only once in the entire half (it was a very good chance they created though).

The US wide play let them down imo. Both offensive wingers and the FB's gave them very little offensively. Morgan I thought did a nice job adjusting and dropping into the hole to deliver some very nice one touch passes into space that little came of.

I think Rose is one of (if not the best) midfielders the US has ever produced. If she is fit to go 90, she has to start from here on out IMO.
 
Last edited:
NewlyRetired said:
I think Rose is one of (if not the best) midfielders the US has ever produced. If she is fit to go 90, she has to start from here on out IMO.
Click to expand...
If she's fit, yes. But it's still a risk that may not be necessary. I say she starts and goes 60 or doesn't start and comes on at the half.
 
Age wise what is normal for dropoff in play for women? I know there is more acl tear risk post 30, but just standard of play at 30 vs men? Same? Better?
 
culdeus said:
Age wise what is normal for dropoff in play for women? I know there is more acl tear risk post 30, but just standard of play at 30 vs men? Same? Better?
Click to expand...

I don't think we have enough data yet to really determine where their drop off is. And even with the men, the age limits appear to be moving fairly significantly. Players are staying near the top of their game in their mid 30's more than ever before in the sports history (I assume this is true for most sports as well)

Many of the women also have to contend with how pregnancy effects their quality since that can occur in their prime. Some, like Morgan, have not missed a beat though, others have not been so lucky.
 
CletiusMaximus said:
The Kansas Comet said:
Lavelle made a significant difference. Would have liked to have seen a few more subs. Too much talent on the bench to only have one sub given our level of play today.
Click to expand...

Mewis and O’Hara were good 4 years ago but are now 32 and 34 so must be on the back end of it. Rapinoe can’t play in a game like this. Those are the only 3 players on the bench I recognize but I have to think you’re correct that there must be another attacking option on that bench to bring on in this game. Coach was asked this in postgame and said we were dominating so no need for a sub but that seems like BS to me. Yes, Netherlands were not threatening at all in the last half hour. But our attack could really have used some fresh legs and maybe someone with a decent touch and some ideas?
Click to expand...
Lynne Williams would seem to have been an obvious choice with Rodman struggling.
 
otb_lifer said:
are transgenders competing yet? and i don't mean those that look like it, i mean legit TGs :popcorn:

TIA
Click to expand...
I don't think they were out last time when you wrote this.

Canada's Quinn is apparently the first transgender player in WC history.

They (and yes, I hate writing that- but that's a "me" issue, and I'll get it over it) were also the first openly trans Olympian and Olympic medalist (gold, to boot... pronounced canadian style, which must sound like "bout"). Canada's starting 5.
 
HULK SMASH

"That's where you get the best football from Lindsey," Horan said afterward. "I don't think you ever want to get me mad because I don't react in a good way. Usually I just go and I want something more -- I want to win more, I want to score more, I want to do more for my team.

"So that moment, that little tackle -- big tackle -- changed a shift in my head because I want to do everything for my team and to win these games."

In the USWNT's 1-1 draw with the Netherlands in the second round of the World Cup group stage, Van de Donk -- who plays with Horan at club Lyon -- delivered a body check in the 60th minute that left Horan crumbled in a heap on the pitch.

Horan was slow to get up, and then on an ensuing corner kick, the two had a tense exchange where Horan gave Van de Donk a two-handed shove as the two were waiting for the restart.
 
heckmanm said:
Nigeria upset the Aussies, South Africa up on Argentina late first half
Click to expand...
That aussie upset is huge... one of the pre tourney favorites (Argentina won after losing their first game too... so not the end of the world here).

Speaking of Arg... don't think the women are anywhere near the same level as the men and S Africa seems to be playing well. So far, Brazil and Colombia seem the class of S America.
 
El Floppo said:
heckmanm said:
Nigeria upset the Aussies, South Africa up on Argentina late first half
Click to expand...
That aussie upset is huge... one of the pre tourney favorites (Argentina won after losing their first game too... so not the end of the world here).

Speaking of Arg... don't think the women are anywhere near the same level as the men and S Africa seems to be playing well. So far, Brazil and Colombia seem the class of S America.
Click to expand...
Losing Kerr is a cavernous size hole to fill for the Aussies.

At this point they may have to risk her against Canada which is going to be a tough game even if Kerr was a 100% .

Having both hosts go out in the group stage would suck.
 
Scenarios are coming - sorry been caught with other stuff. Sleeping now but I have the groups that that have played twice done.

Probably will post the first bunch before I tackle Group F (which will come down to the 3rd games).

Group D is.....insane.

-QG
 
Group A Scenarios
Standings: SUI 4 points, +2, 2-0 | NZ 3 points, ev, 1-1 | PHI 3 points, -1, 1-2 | Norway 1 point, -1, 0-1

Switzerland advances with
A win or tie
OR
A loss by 1 or 2 and a PHI tie
OR
A loss by 3 and PHI tie and SUI scores as many or more than PHI
OR
a loss by exactly 1 and a Norway win by exactly 1
OR
a loss, a Norway win, the combined margin of the two games is exactly 3 and Norway doesn't outscore Switzerland by 2 or more
OR
a loss, Norwary win, the combine margin of the two games is exactly 3, Norway outscores Switzerland by exactly 2 and Switzerland wins fair play (currently NOR -1, SUI -2) - else draw lots.

----

New Zealand advance with
a win
OR
a tie and a Philippines tie
OR
a tie and Norway win by exactly 1 and Norway doesn't outscore New Zealand by 2 or more

-----

Philippines advance with
a win
OR
a tie and a New Zealand loss

-----

Norway advances with
a win and a New Zealand loss
OR
a win by 2 or more and a New Zealand tie
OR
a win by exactly 1, a New Zealand tie, and Norway outscores New Zealand by 2 or more
OR
a win and a Switzerland loss and the combined margin is 4 or more goals
OR
a win and a Switzerland loss and the combined margin is exactly 3 goals and Norway outscores Switzerland by 3 or more goals
OR
a win and a Switzerland loss and the combined margin is exactly 3 goals and Norway outscores Switzerland by exactly 2 goals and Norway wins fair play (currently NOR -1, SUI -2) else draw lots

So there ya go
-QG
 
Group C: ESP 6 points, +8, 8-0 | JPN 6 points, +7, 7-0 | CR 0 points, -5, 0-5 | Zambia 0 points, -10, 0-10
This is trivial as Spain and Japan have both advanced. Spain wins the group with a win or tie vs Japan. Japan wins the group with a win.

-QG
 
Group E: USA 4 points, +3, 4-1 | NED 4 points, +1, 2-1 | POR 3 points, +1, 2-1 | VIE 0 points, -5, 0-5

USA advance with
a win or tie
OR
a loss, Netherlands loss, and USA margin of loss is not 2 goals or more worse than Netherlands loss
OR
a loss, Netherlands loss, and USA loss margin is exactly 2 more than NED loss margin and Netherlands doesn't outscore USA by more than 1
OR
a loss, Netherlands loss, and USA loss margin is exactly 2 more than NED loss margin and Netherlands outscores US by exactly 2 and USA wins fair play (NED -1, USA -2) else draw lots

----

NED advances with
a win or tie
OR
a loss and Portugal loss
OR
a loss, USA loss, and USA loss margin is 3 goals or more worse than Netherlands loss margin
OR
a loss, USA loss, and USA loss margin is exactly 2 goals worse than Netherlands loss margin and Netherlands outscores USA by 3 or more
OR
a loss, USA loss, and USA loss margin is exactly 2 goals worse than Netherlands loss margin and Netherlands outscores USA by exactly 2 and NED wins fair play (NED -1, USA -2) else draw lots

-----

POR advances with
a win
OR
a tie and a Netherlands loss

-----

Vietnam has been eliminated

So there ya go

-QG
 
Last edited:
Group G: SWE 6 points, +6, 7-1 | ITA 3 points, -4, 1-5 | RSA 1 point, -1, 3-4 | ARG 1 point, -1, 2-3

Sweden has advanced

----

Italy advances with
a win
OR
a tie and an Argentina loss/tie

----

South Africa advances with
A win AND Argentina loss or tie
OR
a win and Argentina win and South Africa wins by a greater margin
OR
a win and Argentina win and both wins are by the same margin and South Africa scores as many or more goals than Argentina
OR
a win and Argentina wins by the same margin and Argentina outscores South Africa by exactly 1 and South Africa wins on fair play (RSA -4, ARG -5) else draw lots

----

Argentina advances with
A win AND an Italy tie
OR
a win and South Africa win and Argentina wins by a greater margin
OR
a win and South Africa win and Argentina wins by the same margin and Argentina outscores South Africa by 2 or more
OR
a win and South Africa win and Argentina wins by the same margin and Argentina outscores South Africa by exactly 1 and Argentina wins on fair play (RSA -4, ARG -5) else draw lots

so there ya go :)
-QG
 
We'll skip Group B for time being. Here's Group F
Group F: FRA 4 points, +1, 2-1 | JAM 4 points, +1, 1-0 | BRA 3 points, +3, 5-2 | PAN 0 points, -5, 0-5

France advances with
a win or tie
OR
a loss and a Brazil loss
OR
a loss and a Jamaica loss and the Jamaica loss is by a bigger margin
OR
a loss and a Jamaica loss and both margins are the same and Jamaica doesn't outscore France
OR
a loss and a Jamaica loss and both margins are the same and Jamaica outscores France by exactly 1 and France wins on fair play (FRA -4, JAM -5) else draw lots

----

Jamaica advances with
a win or tie
OR
a loss and a France loss and the France loss is by a bigger margin
OR
a loss and a France loss and both margins are the same and Jamaica outscores France by 2 or more
OR
a loss and a France loss and both margins are the same and Jamaica outscores France by exactly 1 and Jamaica wins on fair play (FRA -4, JAM -5) else draw lots

-----

Brazil advances with
a win
OR
a tie and a France loss

----

Panama has been eliminated.

So there ya go :)

-QG
 
Okay now here is Group B. Group D is the really screwy one.
Group B: NGA 4 points, +1, 3-2 | CAN 4 points, +1, 2-1 | AUS 3 points, ev, 3-3 | IRE 0 points, -2, 1-3

Nigeria advance with
A win or tie
OR
a loss and an Australia loss
OR
a loss by exactly 1, an Australia tie, and Nigeria scores as many or more goals than Australia
OR
a loss and a Canada loss and the Canada loss is by a bigger margin
OR
a loss and a Canada loss and both losing margins are the same and Nigeria scores as many or more goals than Canada
OR
a loss and a Canada loss and both losing margins are the same and Nigeria scores exactly 1 less goal than Canada and Nigeria wins fair play (CAN -4, NGA -7) else draw lots

----

Canada advance with
a win or tie
OR
a loss and a Nigeria loss and the Nigeria loss is by a bigger margin
OR
a loss and a Nigeria loss and both losing margins are the same and Canada outscores Nigeria by 2 or more
OR
a loss and a Nigeria loss and both losing margins are the same and Canada outscores Nigeria by exactly 1 and Canada wins fair play (CAN-4, NGA -7) else draw lots

----

Australia advance with
a win
OR
a tie and Nigeria lose by 2 or more goals
OR
a tie and Nigeria lose by exactly 1 and Australia outscores Nigeria

----

Ireland has been eliminated.

So there ya go. Stand by for the mess than is Group D

-QG
 
Group D: ENG 6 points, +2, 2-0 | DEN 3 points, ev, 1-1 | CHN 3 points, ev, 1-1 | HAI 0 points, -2, 0-2

Group D is definitely the craziest scenario set I’ve broken down in these World Cup threads. So far, every single game in the group has had a 1-0 score. And because of the way the games lined up, none of the teams have clinched advancement and none of them have been eliminated. A team with 6 points might be eliminated. Alternately, a team with 3 points might yet advance.

Also I assume that it works like the NFL where when a team wins a 3-way tiebreaker that things then revert to step 1, this may come into play with the fair play tiebreaker. I have not found the definitive answer if things revert to step 1 if one team has better fair play than the other 2.

Anyway, here we go….


England advances with

a win or tie

OR

a loss and Denmark tie/loss

OR

a loss by exactly 1, Denmark wins by exactly 1, and England scores as many or more goals than Denmark

OR

a loss by exactly 1, Denmark wins by exactly 1, both games have the same score and that score is not 1-0

OR

a 1-0 loss, Denmark 1-0 win and England or China is best of the 3 in fair play (DEN -1, ENG -2, CHN -4) a 3-way tie means lots are drawn (if one drops then DEN>CHN, ENG>DEN, CHN>ENG)

----

Denmark advances with

a win by 2

OR

a win and a China loss/tie

OR

a tie and a China loss

OR

a tie and a China tie and Denmark scores at least as many goals as China

OR

a win, a China win, both wins are by exactly 1, and Denmark outscores China

OR

a win, a China win, both games are 1-0 and Denmark or England are best of the 3 in fair play (DEN -1, ENG -2, CHN -4) a 3-way tie means lots are drawn (if one drops then DEN>CHN, ENG>DEN, CHN>ENG)

OR

a loss and China loss with both scores 1-0 and Denmark wins fair play (DEN -1, HAI -2, CHN -4) a 3-way tie would mean lots are drawn. (If one drops at this step then DEN>CHN, HAI>DEN, CHN>HAI)

-----

China advances with

A win by 2

OR

A win and a Denmark loss/tie

OR

A tie and a Denmark loss

OR

A tie and a Denmark tie and China outscores Denmark

OR

A win, a Denmark win and both margins are exactly 1 and China outscores Denmark

OR

A win, a Denmark win and both are by identical 1-goal margins but not 1-0.

OR

A win, a Denmark win and both scores are 1-0 and Denmark or China are best of the 3 in fair play (DEN -1, ENG -2, CHN -4) a 3-way tie means lots are drawn (if one drops then DEN>CHN, ENG>DEN, CHN>ENG)

OR

a loss and Denmark loss with both scores 1-0 and China wins fair play (DEN -1, HAI -2, CHN -4) a 3-way tie would mean lots are drawn. (If one drops at this step then DEN>CHN, HAI>DEN, CHN>HAI)

----

Haiti advances with

A win by 2 or more and a China loss

OR

A win by exactly 1 and a China loss by 2 or more.

OR

A win by exactly 1 and a China loss by exactly 1 and Haiti outscores China

OR

A win by exactly 1 and a China loss by exactly 1 and the scores are identical but are not 1-0

OR

A win and China loss with both scores 1-0 and Haiti wins fair play (DEN -1, HAI -2, CHN -4) a 3-way tie would mean lots are drawn. (If one drops at this step then DEN>CHN, HAI>DEN, CHN>HAI)



So there you (finally) go!

There will be a supplemental note next.

-QG
 
As mentioned above Group D is a clusterfudge because all of the scores have been 1-0 so far.
And there are two possible 3-way ties that can happen.
One with England, Denmark, and China all on 6 points and Haiti with 0.
and then one with England with 9 points and Denmark, China, and Haiti all with 3 points.

The whole identical score thing (but excluding 1-0) matters because after the goal differential and total goals tiebreakers get applied it shifts to the games played between the teams. Unless the scores involved are 1-0 this will shift things in terms of total goals and break the tie. I've left it out of the explanations but it's factored in there.

I'm rooting for maximum chaos, even if it proves my post about Group D proves erroneous. I mean a 3-way drawing of lots?!? (Part of me things I'm wrong with the reversion steps here because could you imagine they draw a ball and then they don't draw another?!?) Then again maybe they explain it ahead of time and the balls are for 1st and 2nd. Who knows but it's fun (though not for the team victimized by drawing of ping pong balls, especially if it's a strong England team).

Group H will be put together tomorrow once we know what happens tonight. Still think it's wacky that they are the starting the 3rd games in Group A before Group H has played all of its 2nd games.

Anyway enjoy :)
-QG
 
The Z Machine said:
So which teams have looked the best through 2 group stage matches? Sweden, Spain, Japan, England, Colombia, USA?
Click to expand...

Japan and Sweden have def looked the best. The USA has def had trouble finishing and England probably should be better than two 1-0 results. Colombia plays a fun style.

Could still have a Nigeria-China-Jamaica-Morocco quadrant of the knockout round*


* Do not wager your house on this.

-QG
 
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