RGIII HTTR
Footballguy
Daniel Snyder reaps what he sows. Welcome to the #Redskins , dysfunction and a circus since 1999!!!
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***Official*** Washington Redskins 2014 Thread (In-Season) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter RGIII HTTR
- Start date
fatness
Footballguy
This happens most years, except 2012. The Skins slide downhill and it becomes hopeless for another season, and for a week or two we get all pissy with each other in the yearly topic because we're so ####### disappointed in them again. Then we calm down and start looking at who's playing well and who might be here next year, who they might draft, and start remembering that next year we'll be hopeful at the beginning of the season.
Dondante
Footballguy
It's really not worth it. Griffin has done plenty of damage through social media, is clearly not suited to be a leader and has glaring health concerns. I don't know how a head coach is supposed to lead a team with a divisive QB and a divisive owner. Obviously Gruden knew this going in, so a ton of this is on him just for taking the job, but to say that the team is imploding and it's not largely on Griffin is pathetic at best. Personally, I believe that if Gruden could play Colt he'd manage the team to at least three or four more wins while developing chemistry and consistency among the players on both sides of the ball.
RGIII HTTR
Footballguy
Fatness, read the following:
John Keim's input - http://beta.espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/13018/drama-returns-to-redskins-park
then read...
Peter King's take - http://mmqb.si.com/2014/11/18/robert-griffin-iii-jay-gruden-washington-problems/
Will help with the new ax you seem to be grinding...
John Keim's input - http://beta.espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/13018/drama-returns-to-redskins-park
then read...
Peter King's take - http://mmqb.si.com/2014/11/18/robert-griffin-iii-jay-gruden-washington-problems/
Will help with the new ax you seem to be grinding...
fatness
Footballguy
The team is imploding and it's not largely on Griffin. It's on Gruden.
Defensive failures arent' on Griffin. They're on Gruden.
Cousins's failures aren't on Griffin. The offensive line failures aren't on Griffin. The penalties aren't on Griffin. The team's lack of preparedness isn't on Griffin.
Defensive failures arent' on Griffin. They're on Gruden.
Cousins's failures aren't on Griffin. The offensive line failures aren't on Griffin. The penalties aren't on Griffin. The team's lack of preparedness isn't on Griffin.
fatness
Footballguy
I posted Keim's link yesterday, thanks. Peter King says Gruden doesn't like Griffin, which several of us have said.
A rookie HC of a 3-7 team that got clobbered by a 1-win team, who's resorting to calling out players, is a HC who's in way over his head right now. Who has he got performing well on the team right now besides Morris?
RGIII HTTR
Footballguy
Dondante
Footballguy
Rookie head coach with a bad team, a divisive owner, a divisive, injury prone (putting it mildly) and entitled QB, an injury prone WR, an injury prone TE, no defensive stars, a one dimensional RB...
Do you have a suggestion for a HC that could do better with the hand Gruden has been dealt?
Seems eerily similar to the situation Dallas found themselves in about five years ago. I just takes time. I don't know exactly what it is you have against Gruden, but it seems like he at least deserves a couple of years.
Do you have a suggestion for a HC that could do better with the hand Gruden has been dealt?
Seems eerily similar to the situation Dallas found themselves in about five years ago. I just takes time. I don't know exactly what it is you have against Gruden, but it seems like he at least deserves a couple of years.
Sebowski
Footballguy
I know. Just pointing out Flaptroll doesn't know what he is talking about, as usual.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Hate your first sentence, but the last paragraph is spot on. We can't keep cycling through coaches. No more knee jerk reactions. Just chill the #### out and let the team finish the season. No point in all this speculation and bickering. It is useless.
In a normal situation you definitely keep this in a locker room or a board meeting. I think he realizes that the only chance he has to state his opinion is to blab to the media. Once it was decided that Super Bob was going to start over Colt McCoy he realized that trying to talk to Snyder and Allen is useless. So went the passive aggressive route. To use a bad analogy, basically he scolded his child because he was pissed off at his wife.
Jay Gruden doesn't want to be another Jim Zorn. Jim Zorn was a complete lap dog with no spine in his last year. I mean this organization hired a bingo operator as a "consultant" behind his back and Zorn just bent over and took it.
Swing 51
Footballguy
You nor I know this. I understand that as long as Danny is the owner we will keep hearing the meddling talk, but no one knows this except for a select few people.
MattFancy
Footballguy
We're all so angry because this same thing has been happening for years now. It stopped for those 4 years under Gibbs. Yes, we weren't always good, but the drama wasn't there.
Ever since Gibbs left, it's been non-stop drama with this team. Like I said earlier, other teams are just as bad, yet don't go through nearly half the drama the Redskins do. You don't hear about the Jags players not liking their QB or the Raiders players acting like idiots with the media. Yet, that's a daily thing for the Skins. Just like clockwork, I'm sure Schefter will break some crazy "sources" story on Countdown this Sunday.
The fans are now running players out of town, bickering with each other, etc. It's a disaster. The one constant through all of it though is Snyder. Unfortunately, that's not going to change anytime soon. He's what in his 50s? Don't see him selling this team anytime soon. Not when we're one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports. Fans are just starting to come to realization that this franchise is just going nowhere. Since the glory days of the 70s, 80s and early 90s, this team has what 4 playoff apperances and 5 winning seasons? That's horrible.
The other sad thing is can't everyone just see RG3 leaving here after 2015 and going to the Eagles and running Chip Kelly's offense to perfection? It's destined to happen. All the while we're worried about seeing what Colt McCoy can do. This franchise sucks.
Ever since Gibbs left, it's been non-stop drama with this team. Like I said earlier, other teams are just as bad, yet don't go through nearly half the drama the Redskins do. You don't hear about the Jags players not liking their QB or the Raiders players acting like idiots with the media. Yet, that's a daily thing for the Skins. Just like clockwork, I'm sure Schefter will break some crazy "sources" story on Countdown this Sunday.
The fans are now running players out of town, bickering with each other, etc. It's a disaster. The one constant through all of it though is Snyder. Unfortunately, that's not going to change anytime soon. He's what in his 50s? Don't see him selling this team anytime soon. Not when we're one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports. Fans are just starting to come to realization that this franchise is just going nowhere. Since the glory days of the 70s, 80s and early 90s, this team has what 4 playoff apperances and 5 winning seasons? That's horrible.
The other sad thing is can't everyone just see RG3 leaving here after 2015 and going to the Eagles and running Chip Kelly's offense to perfection? It's destined to happen. All the while we're worried about seeing what Colt McCoy can do. This franchise sucks.
Here is my high level take. A head coach's primary job is to manage an organization. A pretty big organization at that. He has at least 63 players including the practice squad, a dozen coaches, plus a slew of assistants and other people. He has to manage them and get peak performance out of them. That is the job of the head of any organization or department.
If performance is lacking in an employee, it is universally thought that you try to address it in private. Even if things are going poorly, you support the employee in public. It is difficult to get good performance from an employee when you are ripping them apart when talking to others. That is the way it works in most organizations, not just in sports. And managers who don't do this usually are not that good at managing.
So far, from what I have seen, Gruden is not doing a very good job. The organization is not functioning very well. I have mentioned that my biggest concern is the 4 false start penalties and one illegal formation penalty. These are penalties that good teams just don't have. There is nothing that the other team does to create these penalties. They are entirely self inflicted. I think this is a glaring sign that the team is very poorly coached. The on-going confusion on defense on who is supposed to be covering who is terrible. Once again, that gets back to poor coaching. And regardless of which unit it is, poor coaching always makes the head coach look bad.
Finally, talking to the media is the one PR job that the head coach has. If you want a unified team, you need to talk a like a unified team. Instead, Gruden calls out specific players. Last week Hatcher. This week Griffin and Riley. Unless there is some masterful motivational angle to all this, he is ripping into the team unity. It is hard to for a team to come together if the head coach is not on board.
From what I have seen so far, Gruden may not be a capable head coach. If he is not, sticking with him another year will be painful. Painful like year 2 of Zorn painful. But it will be very difficult for Snyder/Allen to eat 4 years of Gruden's contract to get another HC.
If performance is lacking in an employee, it is universally thought that you try to address it in private. Even if things are going poorly, you support the employee in public. It is difficult to get good performance from an employee when you are ripping them apart when talking to others. That is the way it works in most organizations, not just in sports. And managers who don't do this usually are not that good at managing.
So far, from what I have seen, Gruden is not doing a very good job. The organization is not functioning very well. I have mentioned that my biggest concern is the 4 false start penalties and one illegal formation penalty. These are penalties that good teams just don't have. There is nothing that the other team does to create these penalties. They are entirely self inflicted. I think this is a glaring sign that the team is very poorly coached. The on-going confusion on defense on who is supposed to be covering who is terrible. Once again, that gets back to poor coaching. And regardless of which unit it is, poor coaching always makes the head coach look bad.
Finally, talking to the media is the one PR job that the head coach has. If you want a unified team, you need to talk a like a unified team. Instead, Gruden calls out specific players. Last week Hatcher. This week Griffin and Riley. Unless there is some masterful motivational angle to all this, he is ripping into the team unity. It is hard to for a team to come together if the head coach is not on board.
From what I have seen so far, Gruden may not be a capable head coach. If he is not, sticking with him another year will be painful. Painful like year 2 of Zorn painful. But it will be very difficult for Snyder/Allen to eat 4 years of Gruden's contract to get another HC.
Dondante
Footballguy
It is his first shot at head coaching. Now, some have it and some clearly don't, but I don't believe you can make that assessment in the first ten games. Certainly not with an organization as dysfunctional as Washington has been since Gibbs' last run. I'm not a 'Skins fan and don't necessarily follow them, so I don't necessarily have a dog in this fight, but I have followed Griffin to the extent that his particular kind of fame fascinates me. I agree with your assessment of what a head coach is responsible for and your analogy of the manager to employee relationship, but this isn't IBM or Whole Foods or Johnson and Johnson. This is a public-support-based entertainment business where every single one of your employees is an alpha male - many of them millionaires. I can't imagine the kind of stress that comes with leading these types of men. That said - some work environments are just not conducive to sustained success. In my opinion that's not on Gruden - it's on Snyder and Allen. Period.
The similarities between the Redskins and the Cowboys as organizations continue to amaze me. Jerry seems to have turned a corner. What will it take for Snyder to do the same?
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Well, in honor of fatness' comment that ... like the past few years it's sadly time to think about next year ... here's my thoughts on the future. I do not think it's as bleak as others do. I feel our offense has talent but isn't quite there until the QB situation is solved. Our defense is missing a lot of pieces.
OFFENSE:
QB: Obviously from previous comments I'm no fan of Griffin (all the way back to year 1 when he appeared good). Despite that, I still gotta give him the chance to pull it together over the next few games. If not, go into next year with Cousins and McCoy battling it out, maybe with a UFA like Tyrod Taylor in the mix. I have no idea how you unload Griffin for the last year of his contract if it comes to that, but I think you have to just to move on. If he isn't the solution, as long as he's on the roster he will be a distraction through no fault of his own, but because of when and how he was drafted.
RB: Morris, Redd, Helu and Young are all keepers depending on contract.
TE: Reed and Paul can suffice for now. Paulsen...not so sure. I think we lack size at the position, but it's not a high priority unless Reed gets hurt again.
WR: We are missing a big guy, but this is fine. No changes for now.
OL: YUCK. We need a couple of new starters. Lauvao, Chester, and Polumbus are terrible. They will make good backups, although Chester's contract makes him a cut unless he restructures. I would think you draft a couple and maybe pickup a couple in FA.
DEFENSE:
Haslett - He's run his course, and it isn't working. Fire him.
DL: We've got to get more interior pressure. It may be scheme. Hatcher and Kerrigan are good pieces. Need to see how new coordinator would use guys like Baker, etc
LB: There is talent in some guys, but it seems misused. For instance, Riley can't cover but is asked to do so all the time. It's happened all season. But I don't think he stinks. It's just bad scheme. Murphy and Robinson look like solid players to develop.
CB/S: I'm pleasantly surprised by Breeland and Amerson. Nobody else is good though. They have got to get real safeties. We have the worst safeties in the NFL and it's not really close.
SPECIAL TEAMS:
P - solid
K - needs replacing. Cobra Kai is an average field goal kicker and we could do worse, but the kickoffs are totally brutal. Is he the only kicker in the league that cannot reach the endzone? There are kickers in the league damn near 50 years old that kick it further.
Returners - Roberts isn't cutting it for me. I have no idea why Jackson is never back there on punts. Gruden wants game changing plays...put Desean back there.
I think some of the reluctancy to make big signings this last offseason was the unknown of RG3's contract. It ends after next season. By the end of the season we should know if that money is freed up for other signings, plus there's no way they are going to sign Orakpo to any deal he'll take, which means another $10m to spend.
OFFENSE:
QB: Obviously from previous comments I'm no fan of Griffin (all the way back to year 1 when he appeared good). Despite that, I still gotta give him the chance to pull it together over the next few games. If not, go into next year with Cousins and McCoy battling it out, maybe with a UFA like Tyrod Taylor in the mix. I have no idea how you unload Griffin for the last year of his contract if it comes to that, but I think you have to just to move on. If he isn't the solution, as long as he's on the roster he will be a distraction through no fault of his own, but because of when and how he was drafted.
RB: Morris, Redd, Helu and Young are all keepers depending on contract.
TE: Reed and Paul can suffice for now. Paulsen...not so sure. I think we lack size at the position, but it's not a high priority unless Reed gets hurt again.
WR: We are missing a big guy, but this is fine. No changes for now.
OL: YUCK. We need a couple of new starters. Lauvao, Chester, and Polumbus are terrible. They will make good backups, although Chester's contract makes him a cut unless he restructures. I would think you draft a couple and maybe pickup a couple in FA.
DEFENSE:
Haslett - He's run his course, and it isn't working. Fire him.
DL: We've got to get more interior pressure. It may be scheme. Hatcher and Kerrigan are good pieces. Need to see how new coordinator would use guys like Baker, etc
LB: There is talent in some guys, but it seems misused. For instance, Riley can't cover but is asked to do so all the time. It's happened all season. But I don't think he stinks. It's just bad scheme. Murphy and Robinson look like solid players to develop.
CB/S: I'm pleasantly surprised by Breeland and Amerson. Nobody else is good though. They have got to get real safeties. We have the worst safeties in the NFL and it's not really close.
SPECIAL TEAMS:
P - solid
K - needs replacing. Cobra Kai is an average field goal kicker and we could do worse, but the kickoffs are totally brutal. Is he the only kicker in the league that cannot reach the endzone? There are kickers in the league damn near 50 years old that kick it further.
Returners - Roberts isn't cutting it for me. I have no idea why Jackson is never back there on punts. Gruden wants game changing plays...put Desean back there.
I think some of the reluctancy to make big signings this last offseason was the unknown of RG3's contract. It ends after next season. By the end of the season we should know if that money is freed up for other signings, plus there's no way they are going to sign Orakpo to any deal he'll take, which means another $10m to spend.
Except it's Gruden and Griffin going back and forth in the media. The fastest way to lose control is to publicly call out and break down players the way Gruden has. It's inexcusable and stupid, that's on Gruden.
fatness
Footballguy
Agree with all of those. I'd add Kerrigan.
That being said nobody on the defense had more than 3 tackles against the Bucs, except Keenan Robinson who had 5. The defense pretty much sucked.
fatness
Footballguy
I think Gruden deserves time. I've said so repeatedly in the topic. I also think he's in over his head at this moment, and he's reacting instead of figuring out how to lead. Lashing out publicly at a particular player is just so juvenile for a coach, any coach. When that coach is new, and has a bad defense, and has a bad offensive line, and has one QB throwing INTs left and right because he feels pressure that isn't there, and another QB holding the ball too long because he isn't sure things are open, and week after week has players that cannot simply line up and run a play without penalties before the snap, and has a defensive coordinator the whole league (except Dallas) has figured out ---- that coach has one hell of a lot of important things to work on just to put an adequate team on the field. There is no way in hell things are being coached correctly or well, and 22 players are running out on the field all deciding to make bad plays. Something's fundamentally wrong with the coaching, and the team's performance resulting from that coaching. Gruden's got public scrutiny off himself for a bit by laying into Griffin, but with each loss that scrutiny's going to fall more and more on Gruden.
He has far more important things to do than to girlishly lash out at players in public. Like, show he can coach.
He deserves time for that. He doesn't deserve silence when he's doing badly.
flapgreen
Footballguy
He will never get another shot as a head coach
flapgreen
Footballguy
As usual? I don't even think we have been in the same threads.
lod01
Footballguy
I would agree if the GMs in the league were all A+ talent evaluators but they aren't. If NE wins the SB, then McDaniels may very well get another shot.....even though he shouldn't.
fatness
Footballguy
John Keim's twitter feed is very good today, puts some credit and blame where he sees it. https://twitter.com/john_keim
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fatness
Footballguy
If Chris Russell is right about this, it's not good.
http://www.espn980.com/includes/blog/index.php?action=blog&blog_id=8&post_id=21071
http://www.espn980.com/includes/blog/index.php?action=blog&blog_id=8&post_id=21071
fatness
Footballguy
Russell's summary of Sunday's game against the Bucs.
There's a lot more detail about the game. It's a good read. And more bad news -- Jordan Reed has a hamstring injury.
Milkman
Footballguy
Can't wait to hear all the optimism next year about this team. It's hilarious reading how "we have a chance to win the division" or "you never know anything can happen" BS during the preseason every year. You guys do realize Dam Snyder is 49 years old right. I mean it's like a legit possibility we will never sniff a deep run in the playoffs in our lifetime with this team. Seriously. They could be the laughing stock of the NFL for 40 more years.
The only chance the Skins have is luck boxing an elite QB. They should literally draft 4-5 QB every draft until they find a franchise QB. It's the only thing that can save them.
The only chance the Skins have is luck boxing an elite QB. They should literally draft 4-5 QB every draft until they find a franchise QB. It's the only thing that can save them.
Sebowski
Footballguy
We just won the division a couple years ago, guy.
Snyder doesn't play on the O-Line, or kick the ball. All the "we'll never blahblahblah as long as Snyder blahblahblah" is total horse ####.
Milkman
Footballguy
Whatever dude. Snyder is the ####### worst! No coach worth anything is coming the Washington.
I don't think you can pin the current status of the team on Snyder. He did everything every knowledgeable fan has asked. He stepped back and hired people not named Vinny to run the organization. Now you can question the job those people have done, this is Allen and Shanny's mess.
HittinHard
Footballguy
As much as i think RG3 can still be a top 10 QB ,the price in picks was way too much and is hurting us now.
RGIII HTTR
Footballguy
The dysfunction can be attributed to him, he set the culture in this franchise after he took over and the people he chose to run it. That culture is eroding away at the fabric and that then becomes reason who even when things go well, it doesn't last. That culture keeps eroding away and does the damage, just like how the perpetual leaks and back hallway un-named sources keep popping up. Now we removed Shanny, who deserved it, but look where we are....same "he said she said" drama and can't blame Shanny for it. If we didn't know better, we could say it is year 2013 right now.
Why in Snyder's entire tenure as an owner has the organization not had a traditional front office like most if not all the other NFL teams? Mind you, like the other organizations who are successful not just "back when" but now and on a year to year basis. Instead, we get habitual losing because the culture of dysfunction has eroded everything Jack Kent Cooke and Joe Gibbs built up.
So yeah....Snyder is not making, missing tackles, blocking, or anything on the field, but his influence has created this dysfunctional culture and a dysfunctional organization that is total horse ####!!!!
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fatness
Footballguy
The main thing Snyder has done wrong is putting Bruce Allen in charge of personnel. Allen isn't qualified to do it, either by experience or by what we've seen from him here.
How Gruden works out isn't going to be known for awhile.
They need a GM in charge of personnel. Let Allen handle contracts, alumni days, and picnics.
How Gruden works out isn't going to be known for awhile.
They need a GM in charge of personnel. Let Allen handle contracts, alumni days, and picnics.
Sebowski
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
I truly believe Snyder has good intentions. I don't think he enjoys being the laughingstock of the league. The problem he has is that he doesn't hire the right people.
Like you said, Allen has never been a personnel guy. And he really isn't here either. What GM concerns himself with the name of their team drama? What GM is out rallying fans in away cities before the game? What GM gets excited about gold pants? What GM sets up "Homecoming" for the team? What GM is responsible for challenges during the game? Allen is more suited to be the President or VP of the team. Until this team gets a real GM in here, we're going to go through this same thing every single year like we have for the past 15 under Snyder.
RGIII HTTR
Footballguy
Sebowski said:TLRGIII HTTR said:R
"I've made up my own narrative/meme and I am sticking with it!"
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
We won the division with a 10-6 record and lost a home playoff game in the first round. That was with a huge positive turnover differential, a new offensive wrinkle that NFL defenses hadn't yet sorted out how to contain, exceptional good luck with injuries (especially on the lines- check out the games started here), zero special teams TD allowed, and arguably the weakest division in the sport (the only worse one in terms of totals wins was the AFC West, which also had the 13-3 Broncos) with all the other teams playing tougher schedules thanks to the Skins' last place finish the year before.Sebowski said:
That was a perfect storm of all the luck variables an NFL team can hope for. The result, all things considered, was probably the best of the 15 year Snyder era. If that's the ceiling, then yeah, I think it's fair to think the team will never win with Snyder at the helm.
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Dondante
Footballguy
This cracks me up. I'm partial to Bobby 3 Sticks, but Super Bob is growing on me.Super Bob press conference in about 10 minutes
MattFancy
Footballguy
Link if anyone wants to watch: http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/WATCH-LIVE-Robert-Griffin-III-At-The-Podium/2b2cd12a-6a9e-4969-acd8-2ca8f64e17bdSuper Bob press conference in about 10 minutes
Warpig
Footballguy
I agree with you. I'm not a Skins fan, but I have no clue how Snyder can be blamed for any of this. He kinda reminds me of Mark Cuban. Snyder is willing to open his pockets and overpay to bring FAs in to Washington. That hasn't always panned out, but atleast he's aggressive and players like playing for the guy because he pampers them.thayman said:
The issue is with the lack of coaching and lack of player accountability. Too many whiny, primadonna players that get their feelings hurt too easily. Just shut up and play football and quit worrying about what people say. Like a bunch of high school girls.
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
I think when you look over the years at our issues, they all come from the top. Maybe the latest issues are result of Allen and SHanny. But who hired them? Who hired the latest regime? The previous ones? I do think snyder is getting better about letting the people he hired manage things but at the end of the day, we have been dysfunctional since he has been here.
RGIII HTTR
Footballguy
We have a lot of those players and why is that? Its the culture in the organization and who created that? Yep, Snyder...only been that way since he took over. So, he is the root cause of all the dysfunction and now it manifests itself in many ways and clearly spiraling out of control these past two years with the added drama/circus atmosphere.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yup. As I and others have mentioned before, the Allen hiring/promotion is particularly egregious. He has no track record of success with player personnel, it's very clear Snyder hired him because of his name and their relationship rather than on the merits. The departure of Shanahan gave him a chance to rectify this and retain perhaps the only coveted front office guy in the organization, Morocco Brown, with a promotion. Virtually everyone in town was calling for them to name another GM, most of them asking for Brown. Instead he doubled down on Allen. That's all on Snyder, and as a result every roster move made after Shanahan left the team is all on Snyder.
Same goes for the coaching staff. Not sure whether keeping Haslett was at Snyder's insistence or simply done because Gruden couldn't/didn't want to get someone better, but either way that's on Snyder. There's also Gruden himself, who may turn out to be a good NFL head coach but a franchise with a profile like this one and bottomless financial resources should be able to do much better on every hire- the difficulty of working for Snyder no doubt limited their coaching search.
That's just his impact on the last 10 games, off the top of my head. Open it up a bit, give me a little time to think about it, and I could probably go on for days.
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