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***Official*** Washington Redskins 2014 Thread (In-Season) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter RGIII HTTR
- Start date
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I'm of the opinion that it would be premature to fire Gruden, but no, I wouldn't not be mad if any or all were replaced.
I'm also of the opinion that it doesn't really matter who is hired or fired below Snyder. Whatever happens will result in more of what we've become accustomed to over the past 15+ years.
dgreen
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
no one would be mad, but you cant keep running a franchise like this, you have to give a coaching staff some time.
its obivous that the RG3 move is bust, time to ship him out and get a different QB in Washington
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
I agree, I don't think it really matters who the HC is here. But it just doesn't seem like Gruden appears to be the answer or have any answers at this point. If anything, at least Haslett has to go this offseason.
RGIII HTTR
Footballguy
Ted Mullins
Footballguy
Basically verifying (to the extent that you believe Jason Reid) what has been speculated - Gruden doesn't want Griffin anymore. Considering Gruden has benched him and how unlikely it seems that RG3 would accept going into the season as a backup, this makes sense IMO.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/for-jay-gruden-the-best-place-for-robert-griffin-iii-is-elsewhere/2014/12/03/911e0cde-7a69-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/for-jay-gruden-the-best-place-for-robert-griffin-iii-is-elsewhere/2014/12/03/911e0cde-7a69-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html
fatness
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
My guesses of the chances of these things happening after the season.
Allen gone: 10%
Personnel guy hired and Allen reduced to managing: 20%
Gruden gone: 30%
Haslett gone: 85%
Those odds will change with each game.
Chance of team just laying down for remaining games this season: 50%
Allen gone: 10%
Personnel guy hired and Allen reduced to managing: 20%
Gruden gone: 30%
Haslett gone: 85%
Those odds will change with each game.
Chance of team just laying down for remaining games this season: 50%
NickyHatton
Footballguy
The only thing that's come out of this year for me is the understanding that the only reason RG3 is here is because of Dan Snyder.
That fact alone gives me zero hope for the next 30+ years as a fan of this team.
I just hope he has an ebeneezer Scrooge moment one Christmas and learns to keep his hands out of all football related activities.
That fact alone gives me zero hope for the next 30+ years as a fan of this team.
I just hope he has an ebeneezer Scrooge moment one Christmas and learns to keep his hands out of all football related activities.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
No, because I'd see it kind of like what the Browns did with Lombardi. Bailing on an obvious mistake ASAP. Sweeping changes to the FO structure and everything would have to follow, though, or it would just be seen as the next Snyder blunder. Especially since Gruden has connections all around the league and obviously in the media.
I doubt even a pissed off Snyder wants to just throw away more than $20 million, though. And who'd come here to be the new GM, after the last regime (even with some holdovers) was shown the door after one season?
Hang 10
Footballguy
This team is almost impossible to root for the remainder of the season. I want that loud mouth idiot coach gone. Can he keep nothing in house? Go ahead and dump RGIII but who is going want to play for some ####### like you, Jay? I just can't understand how it could go this wrong this soon. I think it says more about Gruden than it does about Griffin. You were brought in to develop a young QB, not give up barely halfway through a season.
fatness
Footballguy
Thanks for posting that. I read the article, and it's not clear to me what's really being reported --- Jay Gruden's thoughts or the thoughts of the guys Reid talked to in the front office. Then I read the details and it's stuff like Gruden "rolling his eyes". I'm not saying it's wrong, but I'm far from convinced it's correct. Last year we saw an onslaught of front office anonymous people saying Shanahan or Snyder or Griffin thought this or that, and it was pretty clear most of what was reported that way was just the thoughts of the anonymous front office guys themselves.
Meanwhile
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fatness
Footballguy
I'm watching Dallas's offensive line tonight and it's like they're playing different positions than the Skins offensive line. They're all over the field, bowling people over. On first down runs this year Dallas averages 5.1 yards per run.
Dear Santa.............................
Dear Santa.............................
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
The Schefter report and the Keim report don't make much sense when taken together, but I guess that's Redskins management for you.
Sebowski
Footballguy
The only other position I'd like to see in the 1st round is a stud Safety. I'm not going to hold my breath for either.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
From another thread...according to PFF, opposing qbs have a rating of 135.2 when throwing at David Amerson. The highest against any of 70 ranked cb.
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fatness
Footballguy
A bunch of turnovers, a critical turnover, or a poor passing game against the Rams will get Gruden picking apart McCoy in the press conference.
fatness
Footballguy
Amerson has slipped badly lately. He's not bad in man-to-man coverage, but he's been terrible in zone. So has Ryan Clark.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
Jason Reid's article saying that Gruden wants Griffin gone cites front office sources. You know Adam Schefter's report that Griffin might start again this year came from front office sources. Pretty clear the front office has some blabbermouths who are just getting their personal views into the press as the vultures circle on another Redskins season.Pip said:
Thanks for the same conflicting anonymous #### rumors as last year, front office!
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
They need to squeeze out this front office source(s). It's become more of a headache than the team's performance. A blabbermouth in the organization that puts Adam Shefter's priorities ahead of the team...immediately fire-able. It's not that hard to figure out...just plant different rumors with different individuals and see what comes out from Schefter/Reid. At least you get to original source then can track it from there. I can think of no other team where a source seems to give the media insider info on a daily basis.
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What makes you think that there is only one source? I imagine it as the most dysfunctional place ever, with people blabbing #### all over the place out of spite.
I wouldn't be "mad" but I don't think we should fire Gruden after one year. I think you have to give him some time to establish his system. If he sucks consistently 2-3 years in a row, then you can start looking at it perhaps.
I think it's more important to bring in a conventional GM who can establish a long term, multi-year strategy of aquiring personnell -- both via the draft and FA so we have a long term plan that makes sense and remains consistent over a number of years.
I have already posted my prediction. It is: Allen, Gruden, and Haslett all stay. I could see them bringing in another DC and giving Haslett another title. But in reality, Haslett will still have the juice on defense.
dhockster
Footballguy
So does Haslett have pictures of Snyder in a compromising position? Why do you think Snyder (or Gruden) would want to keep him around?
Hang 10
Footballguy
But seriously, if Griffin ends up not being the guy, who in their right mind would let Allen have anything to do with picking the next QB? In 5 years he's used, 3 first rounders, 2 2nd rounders and a 4th round pick on QBs. The thought of giving him another swing in the first round is sickening.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
You see the 's' in parenthesis in "source(s)" in the first sentence? That means more than one.
What kind of employees thinks it's more important to be the source of information rather than being loyal? "Traitor: One who violates his allegiance".
Problem is, Snyder does not create allegiance beyond handing them a paycheck. The press likens Snyder to Jerry Jones. But Jerry creates allegiance for the most part. He's stuck by Romo, Bryant, and Garrett for a long time. Here is a great article about Tyron Smith, with a snippet about why he stayed with Dallas for less money because of how Jerry helped him beyond the football field. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread141125/dallas-cowboys-tyron-smith-gets-control-battling-family-money
To contrast that, Snyder picks a few people that he want to fraternize with and could care less about anyone else. That's his MO with the Skins and in previous businesses. How many stories do you hear of Snyder or Allen sticking by people that are being bashed in the press. Did they support Shanny? Nope. Marty? Not at all. Gruden? No so far. Zorn? Nope. Norv and Gibbs? Maybe a little, but Gibbs really needed no defense.
All it takes is a real GM to get up on the podium representing the team and saying whatever the facts are... 1) we are standing by Jay, 2) he picks the players. 3) Haslett, like all coaches, will be evaluated at seasons end by the front office and Gruden. 4) we will need to wait until the offseason to see what our situation is at QB and all other positions. All 3 have potential. We'd like to see that potential realized on the field. 5) we want to build a winning team. All of these are likely true, but so far, crickets. Thus rumors abound, coaches end up talking too much, and unnamed sources get a lot of press.
Frankly, the football side of things was better run by Vinny than Allen, and that is really, really scary.
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If the Redskins keep Gruden, who does not look like a rock star of coaching, it will be difficult to get a big name DC to come to DC. I think many will view Gruden as having one year left to prove himself. Most likely, Wade Phillips and Rex Ryan will have better and more stable opportunities this offseason. If you are Rex Ryan, would you move your family to DC for possibly a one year stint as a DC for a HC who may be a HC for only one more year and possibly forced to keep assistants you did not choose? It's not an attractive gig.
Then they will be choosing between not as highly regarded DCs and up and comers, all of whom are not locked into their contracts. I suspect they would much prefer to stick with Haslett.
There are a lot of little things that add up to Haslett staying.
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RGIII HTTR
Footballguy
dhockster
Footballguy
Ted Mullins
Footballguy
Yeah, my first thought was that maybe Gruden is the one saying he wants Robert to go, and Snyder is the one leaking that he may start again. However, this organization seems dumb/crazy enough to think that acting like they still want Robert will prop up his trade value some. I suppose it is possible that they start him again for a few weeks and try to run a scheme that fits him as good as possible to try to create any sort of positive buzz around him for a potential trade?
I personally believe Reid's article saying Gruden wants RG3 gone - I just don't think Gruden likes him between the way he's talked about him, RG's performance, and the way Gruden has run the offense - it really seems like he wants Griffin to run his offense well or get lost instead of the mutually beneficial compromise you'd expect to see between a QB and coach.
Can't remember where I saw this but supposedly any sort of crossing type stuff that requires switching has completely baffled him all year - apparently the Colts got him with that a few times this past week. Disappointing to see him doing so poorly as he has looked decent at times and was another high draft pick.
It is pretty clear Gruden does not want Griffin. He hasn't lit up any of the other QBs publicly like he did Griffin.
On the front office leaks, I am guessing there is a culture where leaking is actually considered ok. That has to be set by Snyder. I am not saying Snyder is telling people what to say. I am saying that if the Redskins were serious about stopping the leaks, they would find a way to stop them.
On the front office leaks, I am guessing there is a culture where leaking is actually considered ok. That has to be set by Snyder. I am not saying Snyder is telling people what to say. I am saying that if the Redskins were serious about stopping the leaks, they would find a way to stop them.
Ted Mullins
Footballguy
Jason Reid was on the Junkies today talking about the article he wrote, it's segment 7 if you want to listen (~11 minutes) - http://washington.cbslocal.com/audio/the-sports-junkies/
Main things Reid said that jumped out at me:
- Any notion that Gruden didn't want to work with RG3 from the beginning is false, was not an issue to start
- Gruden was especially annoyed at RG3's comments about everyone needing to play better after the Tampa game
- Gruden thinks RG3 has not acknowledged his part in the issues here at all (one of the main points of the article)
- Snyder is not ready to move on from RG3 yet, wants to know "what can be done for him mentally to get them to 10-6"
- Said if RG3 doesn't work out Snyder will likely "have wrath" and Bruce Allen was heavily involved in the trade for RG, seemed to insinuate maybe it could lead to Snyder getting rid of Allen because of it? This was speculative, was not saying he'd heard anything
- Reid said a big issue with Cousins is how he "gets too down" after turnovers, said it lingers even after the games. (if true those weeks he started must have been hell for him)
Main things Reid said that jumped out at me:
- Any notion that Gruden didn't want to work with RG3 from the beginning is false, was not an issue to start
- Gruden was especially annoyed at RG3's comments about everyone needing to play better after the Tampa game
- Gruden thinks RG3 has not acknowledged his part in the issues here at all (one of the main points of the article)
- Snyder is not ready to move on from RG3 yet, wants to know "what can be done for him mentally to get them to 10-6"
- Said if RG3 doesn't work out Snyder will likely "have wrath" and Bruce Allen was heavily involved in the trade for RG, seemed to insinuate maybe it could lead to Snyder getting rid of Allen because of it? This was speculative, was not saying he'd heard anything
- Reid said a big issue with Cousins is how he "gets too down" after turnovers, said it lingers even after the games. (if true those weeks he started must have been hell for him)
Talk about high standards. Hey as long as you can get them within wild card contention is all we need from him.
COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC standards, you mean. Hell, they've only gotten to 10-6 (and absolutely no higher) 3 times in the past 23 seasons.Talk about high standards. Hey as long as you can get them within wild card contention is all we need from him.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I haven't listened, but based on the quote above (so maybe I'm off if there is other context), but what the 10-6 line really seems to drive home for me is the suggestion that Snyder thinks they are just a QB away from 10-6. They are going to continue going nowhere with that mentality.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
If this is true, Gruden is a terrible, terrible coach and should be fired immediately. RGIII's comments weren't bad at all, they were unfairly lifted out of context by NBC in the Sunday night pregame and the story took off from there. It's documented pretty well here ... including RGIII explicitly acknowledging his role in their poor performance. The idea of a coach reacting like that to a PC and making huge personnel decisions that affect the future of the franchise so significantly in part based on that blows my mind.
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Gruden is a fukken hypocrite. What does he want RG3 to be? A team player ("we all need to play better") or the solo guy looking for the camera? I've already posted before about throwing RG3 under the bus to the media was a ######ed move. Not one good thing could have come out of that and nothing did. It creates unnecessary drama around the team, in the locker room and creates a distrust and divide between the "starting" QB and the head coach.
It comes to if Gruden was brought in to "fix" RG3 and/or just bottom line, win football games. According to Reid, it sounds like the latter and that Gruden tried to fix RG3 and is saying he can't. One offseason and what 5 games is enough to make that determination? Sure RG3 has looked like #####, but Gruden is supposed to be some QB guru and offensive genius. If RG3 fails, a part of that falls on Gruden does it not? Kyle Shannahan got production out of him.
It comes to if Gruden was brought in to "fix" RG3 and/or just bottom line, win football games. According to Reid, it sounds like the latter and that Gruden tried to fix RG3 and is saying he can't. One offseason and what 5 games is enough to make that determination? Sure RG3 has looked like #####, but Gruden is supposed to be some QB guru and offensive genius. If RG3 fails, a part of that falls on Gruden does it not? Kyle Shannahan got production out of him.
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