Spin
Footballguy
Ford confirmed that those family bots were built by Arnold. So it explains why Arnold would be in that picture, too. Ford, Arnold and the dad-bot built by Arnold.
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***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Rohn Jambo
- Start date
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Yeah, absolutely. The dialogue I was referring to was Ford mentioning that the hosts/Bernard literally "can't see what will hurt them." So yeah, the image of Arnold in the photo is just like the door. We're just seeing the photo through Bernard's eyes/code.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
This one.
Watchers had already mentioned that the framing looked like it was intended for three subject shot. Looking again, you can actually see how the artifacts for how the software fills in the deleted subjects. Look at the weird rectangles where the background looks pasted on the right side of the photo.
The Gator
Footballguy
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Spin
Footballguy
The "blood sacrifice" comment from Ford to Cullen, was kinda strange. The chairwoman said it to Cullen when they were meeting to discuss how they were going to throw Ford under the bus, and then Ford used it again right before he had Arnold take care of Cullen. Is this implying that the chairwoman is also a host?
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
My guess - there was a bot in the room (the bad guy she was shtuping). Ford sees and knows everything they are doing.
Spin
Footballguy
Oooh, good call. So clearly the bots are recording everything and Ford has access to it all, so he is essentially spying everywhere.
The Gator
Footballguy
Maybe, but I think it was more of a "i know exactly what goes on here all the time". he made sure we knew that with teh cell phone service blockage.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I like how Bernard took off his jacket and tie before bashing Teresa's head in.
El Floppo
Footballguy
was just wondering about that myself. given the blood-sacrifice comment, got the impression after last night that Ford knows everything going on in the park.
but who grabbed elsie? still could be a "good guy"... although it's becoming genuinely more and more difficult to figure out who's good and who's bad.
william still MIB in t-30?
bigmarc27
Footballguy
I can't see it as William or MIB regardless of them being the same person or not. My initial guess was Hemsworth, but unless we're getting screwy with timelines, I don't see when. He was shown shooting the bot tonight after Bernard is aware Elsie is missing. I actually can't think of a single main or known character that would make sense outside of maybe Ford*.
Unless we get some kind of Arnold reveal assuming Bernard is not Arnold which seems likely at this point.
El Floppo
Footballguy
oh- sorry... wasn't clear at all.
I was asking two questions... who took elsie? is william still MIB in our eyes?
bigmarc27
Footballguy
Ahhh gotcha... I don't know or really have an opinion on the Williams / MIB stuff. I'm trying to watch with soft eyes until it's confirmed/denied.
A lot has to happen in these three episodes I would think... and then who knows how long to season 2?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Charlotte said the line in the presence of Hector (who was deactivated at the time, but Elsie has already established that Hosts still record then). Doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that Ford would find out about the "special request" for Hector and then review his feed.
The Gator
Footballguy
I think he's been there the entire time, too, but isn't MiB.William stays in the park - and lives off the grid. He is helping Elsie imo
The man in house at the end of the maze is extremely intriguing. He got tired of being killed and built a maze to keep people out. That's plenty self aware already and I think it has something to do with William getting that far with Dolores and William staying there to help him out.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I'm more convinced than ever that William becomes the MiB and that William will have to "kill" Delores at the end of this season.
We got more evidence that Delores was an original Arnold design (i.e. with mechanical components) this episode. The MiB has previously commented that he once cut open one of the old models and saw the mechanical components and that he didn't like how the new models were engineered biologically. The MiB has already told Ford that he "saved" the park from whatever Arnold did. And we've had plenty of evidence that William and Logan are Delos representatives from before Delos purchased the park.
We got more evidence that Delores was an original Arnold design (i.e. with mechanical components) this episode. The MiB has previously commented that he once cut open one of the old models and saw the mechanical components and that he didn't like how the new models were engineered biologically. The MiB has already told Ford that he "saved" the park from whatever Arnold did. And we've had plenty of evidence that William and Logan are Delos representatives from before Delos purchased the park.
The Gator
Footballguy
For sure, part of what I meant by "i know exactly what goes on here all the time". Either by getting info form the bots or just having the entire place wired/under surveillance. There's obviously more than just getting info from the bots, though, hence him hitting us over the head with "I built every single thing" here.
The Gator
Footballguy
Only thing holding me back from William = MiB is MiB saying he's been coming here for 30 years(could also just mean Dolores' house = here*) and William seemingly not wanting to leave and staying in WW.
* Now, MiB's meaning of 'here' being WW or 'here' meaning Dolores's house for that story line is debatable imo
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
You're telling me every time Maeve leaves, Sylvester doesn't rat her out for being aware? If it came down to my life or job, pretty easy decision IMO.
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I also think Logan is the MiB
bigmarc27
Footballguy
This is probably my biggest plot hole that I'm aware of. If I'm syslvester, the first time she says turn my awareness up to 20, I say no problem and crank it down until she's a vegetable. Problem solved.
Im ok suspending belief, but wish there was a less campy way of making that happen.
The Gator
Footballguy
Fair enough. But he turned her up, what the third time she woke up? He was already in her(memory's) debt. He lowers her awareness then has to explain why he did that when he turns her in. Then he has to explain why he walked her around the times before? He'd be toast.
Plus, they've already shown his fascination with the bots with him and his bird. I'm sure a part of him wants to see where it goes.
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Me too, by far my biggest plot hole. If I had a robot threatening my life, I'd be sure to let someone know, "hey, this thing is dangerous."
The Gator
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I don't see how, if we accept that Sylvester is worried about his job, he can turn down Maeve's apperception. She will presumably go back out into the park and if she's stupid, they will notice that in her performance (as Elsie already did).
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
The Gator
Footballguy
I could buy into that. It would explain why he does what he does to Dolores and his obsession with finding the end of the game.(william too?)
El Floppo
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I'm more skeptical of Sylvester than Felix on this - Felix has shown an interest in the robots, Sylvester who has every reason to be scared of her, wouldn't keep mum IMO.
Also, she had dozens of pictures she drew from the fixing room with the men in the HazMat suits, but we only saw her take off once. A few things in the Maeve situation seem slightly plot holey to me.
Another small thing, kinda stupid, but whatever:
You had a massive kill scene with Indians and soldiers yesterday, had to be 50-100 dead bodies at the end of a battle like that... Wouldn't that be a little labor intensive for the human crews considering there was only one guest for that entire 'scene?' IDK, stupid observation, but crossed my mind.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
I think about the cleanup required every episode.
Maybe It has to do with being parents of small kids?
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
One day, 4 years from now, while all of the idiots are arguing about Trump vs insert "stupid candidate" here, I am going to bump this post and make you
**Prob wrong, but it's a theory.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
All kinds of the logistics are problematic. Are guests constantly being brought in the park or do they only get brought in at the beginning of a narrative loop? It appears to be the former (the MiB kills Teddy at the Abernathy ranch and later finds him crucified while seeking Wyatt). But that seems like it would ruin all kinds of loops. Maybe they let him stay in the park for multiple loops.
I don't worry too much about it, because hey, it's sci/fi. Even ambitious thoughtful sci/fi has silly elements. I mean, the Samaritan protocol would also seem to be an insufficient protection against player v. player violence. I just let it slide.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
More on the Logan theory here
I kinda disagree with this quote since it appears he hates the guy, but the rest of the article is pretty solid:
I kinda disagree with this quote since it appears he hates the guy, but the rest of the article is pretty solid:
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bigmarc27
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
The loops are only loops if nobody takes them up on their story, right? Once the host is engaged with the guest, they will go onto their story line(extended loops) while others return to their closed loops?
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Also, hypothetically, if Ford is getting all data from hosts, wouldn't he know about Maeve?
Major
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Yeah, that article on the Logan theory pretty much just marshals evidence in favor of William, IMO. Logan's long monologue about William being middle-management, blah blah blah sets up a narrative arc for William. How William can both evolve into being a "gamer" who doesn't respect the Host's humanity and how he can evolve into powerful corporate figure recognized in the outside world.
With Logan, there's no story in getting from Logan to the MiB. He'd be fully formed. But if that were so, why focus on William's position in the company? Narratively, it makes sense for William to make his place in the company by "saving" the park in order for Delos to acquire it.
With Logan, there's no story in getting from Logan to the MiB. He'd be fully formed. But if that were so, why focus on William's position in the company? Narratively, it makes sense for William to make his place in the company by "saving" the park in order for Delos to acquire it.
(HULK)
(Smash)
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
All very valid points.
The "bailed the park out" comment still leads me to Logan over William, but I'm just spinning the wheel right now. Logan was left in a bad spot last we saw him in episode 6, maybe he dies becoming a civilian victim and William takes his position, then he is responsible for bailing the park out.
Who knows, I'm getting more into it, show is shaping up nicely.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yes. And he wants it to happen.
His new narrative that he is building isn't some in park story. It's the actual events that are playing out.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Sure it was brought up in earlier episodes but i wasnt paying as close attention then. Why are Ford and the corporation at odds? I get he wants to further his own agenda of making the hosts essentially living. Whats the corporations beef and why do they want to toss him to the curb? That hes spending too much money?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
He won't share the code outside the park, for one thing. This is probably another plot hole in that it's hard to imagine a corporation like Delos buying in with their own agenda and then being stymied for 30 years.
Delos doesn't care about the park. They care about the IP (you can imagine the applications, assassinate a foreign leader and replace him with a host, use the hosts to find out important people's deepest secrets, whatever).
