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***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (1 Viewer)

Sinn Fein said:
He owns the park.  He has been actively trying to effectively clone someone.  I doubt Delos would need to get his DNA surreptitiously.

Unless - William wants to shut it all down, and Ford wants to keep it going, and Ford is still alive, and killed the real William at the party - leaving the cloned William to survive and come out the other side and decide to keep the park open.

Seems like a copy of Ford is a more logical choice.  :shrug:
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I may be wrong about my guess, but I am ~100% certain it isn't Ford.  

 
kupcho1 said:
I may be wrong about my guess, but I am ~100% certain it isn't Ford.  
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:shrug:

Another thought that popped into my mind would be William's wife.  Could also fit with the admonition that if you are looking forward, you are looking in the wrong direction.  Maybe William needs to look back and fix whatever happened with his wife.

 
Sinn Fein said:
:shrug:

Another thought that popped into my mind would be William's wife.  Could also fit with the admonition that if you are looking forward, you are looking in the wrong direction.  Maybe William needs to look back and fix whatever happened with his wife.
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Or perhaps he has to square off against a younger version of himself.  Could be a Jimmi host.  Or maybe an idealistic William (Jimmi) to give him another chance at not being a ####heel.

 
kupcho1 said:
Or perhaps he has to square off against a younger version of himself.  Could be a Jimmi host.  Or maybe an idealistic William (Jimmi) to give him another chance at not being a ####heel.
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One thing that is not entirely clear though - how long was William a heel?

Based on Season 1 - I think the only thing we can say for sure is that he was a heel for the last two weeks.  That was after Build 149 of James Delos - when maybe William had given up on the hosts ever being more than "things".  

I don't think we have an indication that William has been a bad guy for a long time - other than obviously driving his wife to kill herself - but that could have been due to his fascination with Dolores among other things...

 
Sinn Fein said:
One thing that is not entirely clear though - how long was William a heel?

Based on Season 1 - I think the only thing we can say for sure is that he was a heel for the last two weeks.  That was after Build 149 of James Delos - when maybe William had given up on the hosts ever being more than "things".  

I don't think we have an indication that William has been a bad guy for a long time - other than obviously driving his wife to kill herself - but that could have been due to his fascination with Dolores among other things...
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Not sure what you mean by heel but William was only a nice guy until the end of his first trip to WW. He showed his balls before James Delos ever died.

 
jamny said:
Not sure what you mean by heel but William was only a nice guy until the end of his first trip to WW. He showed his balls before James Delos ever died.
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Yeah, thats right.  I forgot about killing the soldiers, and then sending Logan off on his own...

I was thinking about how he raped Dolores as MIB - and that was right after the last James Delos interview.

 
Sinn Fein said:
One thing that is not entirely clear though - how long was William a heel?

Based on Season 1 - I think the only thing we can say for sure is that he was a heel for the last two weeks.  That was after Build 149 of James Delos - when maybe William had given up on the hosts ever being more than "things".  

I don't think we have an indication that William has been a bad guy for a long time - other than obviously driving his wife to kill herself - but that could have been due to his fascination with Dolores among other things...
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Since he killed his brother in-law and fell in love with Dolores. That would be 30 years

 
I've been trying to figure out what is a better view of this story - the bible itself or Paradise Lost.  I can probably fit it into both for the most part.  The religious overtones and simultaneous underlayer have been so well done it is insane.  Just the final scene in the host cell with Delos was all kinds of perfect imagery of hell.  

This really is a remarkable show.  Every single scene and set piece is important.  

My only fear is that they use the Matrix Architect scene to explain or finish the story somehow.  It was a lousy payoff full of self important nonsense then and would be here as well.  

 
Yankee23Fan said:
I've been trying to figure out what is a better view of this story - the bible itself or Paradise Lost.  I can probably fit it into both for the most part.  The religious overtones and simultaneous underlayer have been so well done it is insane.  Just the final scene in the host cell with Delos was all kinds of perfect imagery of hell.  

This really is a remarkable show.  Every single scene and set piece is important.  

My only fear is that they use the Matrix Architect scene to explain or finish the story somehow.  It was a lousy payoff full of self important nonsense then and would be here as well.  
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OK if it ends up being its own thing (insofar as it is based on movie from the 70s)?

 
So I'm still trying to piece together how Bernard winds up at the beach. There is a champagne glass next to him although that could be a bit of misdirection. I went back and watched the massacre at the end of last season's finale to see his scenes and I noticed he was wearing a black shirt but wakes up at the beach in a white (or light blue) shirt. So I look at the first episode this season and he's still wearing the black shirt from the aftermath of the party all the way up to when he and Charlotte go underground. When Charlotte changes her clothes and Bernard uses the opportunity to shoot himself up with the bot juice, he is still wearing the black shirt. The next time we see the two of them (EP3) they are back in the park, searching for Abernathy. Bernard has the white shirt on. It could be a continuity error on the part of the show but who knows. Not sure how else to explain it otherwise yet.

Bernard's hand shaking also seems to be similar to Delos' twitching. Could Ford have implanted his brain into a Bernard host? Could it be an Arnold brain? Iirc, Ford was making a host in his secret lab last season and that was never addressed.

 
jamny said:
So I'm still trying to piece together how Bernard winds up at the beach. There is a champagne glass next to him although that could be a bit of misdirection. I went back and watched the massacre at the end of last season's finale to see his scenes and I noticed he was wearing a black shirt but wakes up at the beach in a white (or light blue) shirt. So I look at the first episode this season and he's still wearing the black shirt from the aftermath of the party all the way up to when he and Charlotte go underground. When Charlotte changes her clothes and Bernard uses the opportunity to shoot himself up with the bot juice, he is still wearing the black shirt. The next time we see the two of them (EP3) they are back in the park, searching for Abernathy. Bernard has the white shirt on. It could be a continuity error on the part of the show but who knows. Not sure how else to explain it otherwise yet.

Bernard's hand shaking also seems to be similar to Delos' twitching. Could Ford have implanted his brain into a Bernard host? Could it be an Arnold brain? Iirc, Ford was making a host in his secret lab last season and that was never addressed.
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The hand shaking, plasma injections and remembering things ("I've been here before") all point to him being a brain implant imo.  Only unlike Delos he's having trouble remembering his past.  I think it's code that has kept him from remembering and acting like Bernard until Ford needs something.  I'm also sticking with the most obvious; Bernard is Arnold and Ford is in Bernard's pocket ("Ford wanted me to get something").

 
tonydead said:
The hand shaking, plasma injections and remembering things ("I've been here before") all point to him being a brain implant imo.  Only unlike Delos he's having trouble remembering his past.  I think it's code that has kept him from remembering and acting like Bernard until Ford needs something.  I'm also sticking with the most obvious; Bernard is Arnold and Ford is in Bernard's pocket ("Ford wanted me to get something").
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I was going to write that possibly the Bernard we saw in last season's finale was already a Bernard host with a Ford brain but his actions after the massacre don't really hold up. It could be though for the Bernard that wakes up at the beach and also could somehow explain him saying "I killed them all" at the lake with all the floating dead hosts.

 
Maik Jeaunz said:
my memory is a little fuzzy, do we know for a fact that he did that?
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I don't think so. The initial thought was that he raped her because of the shot of her in the barn and him approaching her with the knife, from a very early episode. But I'm pretty sure we saw more of that scene much later on that strongly implied he wasn't harming her.

 
Delores is stone cold. Damn.

A lot of story lines going on.  BTW could you consider the ability to hypnotize people the same/similar power as Mauve? A real 'life hack' ?

Seriously, in the end the reality is that at some point, the complexity of thought gives rise to consciousness and/or we are just sentient programs running off code, which can be hacked/utilized to control us - no different and no nor less 'worthy' of life than the sentient robots. 

 
Kind of meh episode for me.

I do wonder if Dolores is still running on code - it does seem like Teddy was becoming more independent, and that was what Dolores was trying to kill.

 
Cut it off halfway thru. Right when ninjas showed up.  Will see if any hype builds down the stretch but this is simply boring. 

 
First day of vacation and we were really tired from travelling all day. Fell asleep twice during the show. From the previews I didn't think it was going to be good and it wasn't. Disappointing.

 
Koya said:
BTW could you consider the ability to hypnotize people the same/similar power as Mauve? A real 'life hack' ?
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Sure, if I'm willing to suspend disbelief for a show about sentient robots, why not go the extra mile and believe in hypnosis?

(BTW, nice use of Mauve :thumbup: )

 
yea I kinda stopped paying attention the second half.   Delores and teddy talking way to much.

I thought the double up characters from west world to shogun world was kinda cool, other than that not much.  bring back Bernard next week and get back on track.

 
I'm assuming there were subtitles? They weren't showing at the hotel where we watched it. Made it all a bit more confusing.

 
Paraphrasing from some other viewer interactions and splicing in my own thoughts.

The show to me was strongest when there was interaction between Dolores and young William.  The chemistry there made you not really care about the plot arc.  The dialogue was simply good and interesting.  Separating/eliminating those two has been the single biggest drag on the show IMO.  Dolores is simply not able to carry scenes alone her talent gap is pretty wide to the other principals at this point to the point that she's pretty exposed.  I don't buy that it's her "Playing a robot" standing in for good acting.  Maeve for having a boring plot, and a bot is still doing circles around her.  

The Bernard character was much better when it appeared he was a human.  In hindsight, if they could take that back and just make him a rogue human, alive, with an agenda it would make that storyline better it could have been scripted that way even though I believe they are following the book with him.   As a bot, and as a bot with unclear intentions, it is hard to pick a side and that storyline is struggling to get traction.

The Maeve storyline is just wandering around.  She's now got some cheat code or something, great.  So do something for once.  They've invested nearly an hour on her storyline only to have her end up roughly in the same spot.  The single only thing that seems to be coming to fruition is that she seems to be figuring out that some of what is going on right now is a loop and some of the bots may be in it with her.  This isn't enough to make her story interesting.

This leaves MIB as the single only story worth following, and it's been maybe 15% of the season.  

GOT has had some poor story arcs at times, but I'd say they've never had 75% of their story arcs just in the weeds like this before.

 
culdeus said:
Paraphrasing from some other viewer interactions and splicing in my own thoughts.

The show to me was strongest when there was interaction between Dolores and young William.  The chemistry there made you not really care about the plot arc.  The dialogue was simply good and interesting.  Separating/eliminating those two has been the single biggest drag on the show IMO.  Dolores is simply not able to carry scenes alone her talent gap is pretty wide to the other principals at this point to the point that she's pretty exposed.  I don't buy that it's her "Playing a robot" standing in for good acting.  Maeve for having a boring plot, and a bot is still doing circles around her.  

The Bernard character was much better when it appeared he was a human.  In hindsight, if they could take that back and just make him a rogue human, alive, with an agenda it would make that storyline better it could have been scripted that way even though I believe they are following the book with him.   As a bot, and as a bot with unclear intentions, it is hard to pick a side and that storyline is struggling to get traction.

The Maeve storyline is just wandering around.  She's now got some cheat code or something, great.  So do something for once.  They've invested nearly an hour on her storyline only to have her end up roughly in the same spot.  The single only thing that seems to be coming to fruition is that she seems to be figuring out that some of what is going on right now is a loop and some of the bots may be in it with her.  This isn't enough to make her story interesting.

This leaves MIB as the single only story worth following, and it's been maybe 15% of the season.  

GOT has had some poor story arcs at times, but I'd say they've never had 75% of their story arcs just in the weeds like this before.
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The worst GOT arcs are better than some of these. 

 
My interest level drops to zero every time Delores shows up. So boring, and it doesn’t make sense either.  “Teddy, those memories aren’t real, none of it’s real...  now let me get sentimental with mah daddy!”  The Maeve stuff is better, I dug Shogun world.

 
What is the general consensus on Season Two? I watched and enjoyed Season One, but sort of struggled to get through the first episode of the new season. Is it worth sticking with it?

 
bigbottom said:
What is the general consensus on Season Two? I watched and enjoyed Season One, but sort of struggled to get through the first episode of the new season. Is it worth sticking with it?
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It’s not as good, but it’s still pretty good. Parts are hit or miss for me.

William / history of the park story: A+

Bernard story: B +

Maeve: C +

Delores: F -

 
bigbottom said:
What is the general consensus on Season Two? I watched and enjoyed Season One, but sort of struggled to get through the first episode of the new season. Is it worth sticking with it?
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So far hit or miss.

I liked episodes 2-4 more than 1, but 5 was my least favorite of the season.

I am somewhat vested in the series, so I am intrigued to see where they are taking it.  Much like Season 1, not everything is as it appears in Season 2.

I think its still a little early to judge the story lines - given that we don't really know where they are headed.  But, I generally prefer the William/MIB storyline, Bernard's is more difficult to follow - but allows for greater speculation, Dolores, she is probably still key to the overall story, but its not easy to understand what she is doing, or why.  Maeve's story is least exciting, and probably has the least pay-off (though I think she is the one host who has gained free-will).

 
Sinn Fein said:
So far hit or miss.

I liked episodes 2-4 more than 1, but 5 was my least favorite of the season.

I am somewhat vested in the series, so I am intrigued to see where they are taking it.  Much like Season 1, not everything is as it appears in Season 2.

I think its still a little early to judge the story lines - given that we don't really know where they are headed.  But, I generally prefer the William/MIB storyline, Bernard's is more difficult to follow - but allows for greater speculation, Dolores, she is probably still key to the overall story, but its not easy to understand what she is doing, or why.  Maeve's story is least exciting, and probably has the least pay-off (though I think she is the one host who has gained free-will).
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Also, much less nudies it seems to me. Almost none, other than that one penis shot a couple weeks ago.

 
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I've liked the episodes that either focused on, or more largely incorporated, either the outside world itself or the people coming in from it. Basically everything involving the hosts themselves and their "journey" I can do without. The Delores stuff is killing me and if she was gone forever I'd be happy.

 
bigbottom said:
What is the general consensus on Season Two? I watched and enjoyed Season One, but sort of struggled to get through the first episode of the new season. Is it worth sticking with it?
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Im loving it.  They introduced a new circle of hell last week and I thought it was brilliant. 

 
flapgreen said:
The worst GOT arcs are better than some of these. 
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I tend to agree.   Dany just chilling in the pyramid and Arya chilling in the mask room were probably the two weakest story arcs of GOT so far, both have more intrigue than whatever mave and dolo are up to.

 
culdeus said:
I tend to agree.   Dany just chilling in the pyramid and Arya chilling in the mask room were probably the two weakest story arcs of GOT so far, both have more intrigue than whatever mave and dolo are up to.
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I love Thrones and Arya is awesome but her Faceless Man arc was often incredibly boring. Maeve/Neo is far superior as is Dolores' turn into being what she initially was rebelling against in my opinion.

 
packersfan said:
I love Thrones and Arya is awesome but her Faceless Man arc was often incredibly boring. Maeve/Neo is far superior as is Dolores' turn into being what she initially was rebelling against in my opinion.
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Arya's Faceless Man arc was much longer and more boring in the books imo.

 
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