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***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (1 Viewer)

jamny said:
The biggest takeaway for me from the episode was that Ford had Bernard print a control unit for another human. That would seem to be for either Ford himself, I've thought all along that Anthony Hopkins would be back somehow and they are doing a great job of keeping it hidden, or for MiB. I also thought after the conversation between MiB and Lawrence a couple of episodes ago that MiB might be a clone of William. Not sure what other human it would be for.

Great acting by the guy playing James Delos. What do you think the timeframe was from when MiB was talking to Delos and the collapse of the system? Was what we saw, with Delos' cut up face, the end result of that last meeting? It seemed like Ed Harris was made to look a little younger in that scene.
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Agreed Ford is coming back, or at least Ford’s consciousness in another host. My interpretation of the last Delos/MiB meeting was that it occurred right before the big party. Otherwise the technician getting murdered (along with everybody else in the lab) would have probably drawn someone’s attention. 

 
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jamny said:
Great acting by the guy playing James Delos. What do you think the timeframe was from when MiB was talking to Delos and the collapse of the system?
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I think I read on line it was 2 weeks between Elise opening the room and the last time MIB spoke with Delos - which would fit with him entering the park in season 1.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think I read on line it was 2 weeks between Elise opening the room and the last time MIB spoke with Delos - which would fit with him entering the park in season 1.
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Oh ok. I just thought Ed Harris looked a little younger when he was talking to Delos. Guess not.

 
my theories:

delores is a program

muave is free will- she's the only bot not being controlled other than Bernard

Bernard is free will  but damaged

MiB is a real live person that owns the entire park-   he is really playing a game against Ford and the bots are the puzzle pieces.

Jim Delos was a hybrid clone based on a combination of fords tech with the bots and a different computer processor system which would allow transfer of previous persons lifetime of brain development, hence you could transfer the soul and knowledge of a living person onto a 3d printed physical clone and effectively a person could live forever.   However-  that doesn't work.    MiB was using Jim as his test subject-  in reality this was for MiB to live forever.   He's since changed his mind about living forever.   

Ford is still alive-   the person that got killed was a clone of him

 
jamny said:
Oh ok. I just thought Ed Harris looked a little younger when he was talking to Delos. Guess not.
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Just went back to watch the scenes again - can't see where the 2 weeks comes from - but it is the same build - 149.  So, it would not have been a long time between the visit from MIB, and then Bernard and Elise.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Just went back to watch the scenes again - can't see where the 2 weeks comes from - but it is the same build - 149.  So, it would not have been a long time between the visit from MIB, and then Bernard and Elise.
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William instructed them to leave him in there, not to incinerate him.  I got the feeling he had been in there for a significant amount of time given all the damage.  I couldn't hear everything he said to Bernard as he was dying, any clues there?

 
tommyboy said:
my theories:

delores is a program

muave is free will- she's the only bot not being controlled other than Bernard

Bernard is free will  but damaged

MiB is a real live person that owns the entire park-   he is really playing a game against Ford and the bots are the puzzle pieces.

Jim Delos was a hybrid clone based on a combination of fords tech with the bots and a different computer processor system which would allow transfer of previous persons lifetime of brain development, hence you could transfer the soul and knowledge of a living person onto a 3d printed physical clone and effectively a person could live forever.   However-  that doesn't work.    MiB was using Jim as his test subject-  in reality this was for MiB to live forever.   He's since changed his mind about living forever.   

Ford is still alive-   the person that got killed was a clone of him
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:goodposting:

I think William was working for Jim and trying to make him immortal based on his wishes as he was ill and dying.  I didn't see it was for MiB himself, especially when he gave up after his wife's death and presumably went after Ford.

Ford is still alive - the person that got killed was a clone of him, or he is still alive as a clone, or will be based on the brain Bernard made.

 
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jamny said:
Ford was shown with maggots coming out of his face so I assume the human version is dead.
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I was going to point that out - but then I figured, he could have made AI maggots if he were so inclined.  :shrug:

But, I think that was a clear message that Ford - the human - is dead.  

I was expecting Ford to show up in that room with Bernard and Elise - and I still think there is a version of him out there - maybe that is what Bernard is carrying around.

 
Well, there's no reason why Ford would have to show up in the same body. You would think he'd want to be in a younger, more agile body.

 
interesting in that Bernard was told to create another "mind". as someone mentioned, Ford cloning himself seems to obvious.

the next most likely choice would be William. but why would Ford want a clone of William? a game with a human William (MIB) going against a clone young William (Jimmi Simpson) would be bad###.

 
Maik Jeaunz said:
interesting in that Bernard was told to create another "mind". as someone mentioned, Ford cloning himself seems to obvious.

the next most likely choice would be William. but why would Ford want a clone of William? a game with a human William (MIB) going against a clone young William (Jimmi Simpson) would be bad###.
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That could be interesting - and fit with MIB's latest clue - "Look back not forward" or words to that effect.

ETA - "if you are looking forward, you are looking in the wrong direction"

 
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Maik Jeaunz said:
interesting in that Bernard was told to create another "mind". as someone mentioned, Ford cloning himself seems to obvious.

the next most likely choice would be William. but why would Ford want a clone of William? a game with a human William (MIB) going against a clone young William (Jimmi Simpson) would be bad###.
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I could see this happening

 
tommyboy said:
Jim Delos was a hybrid clone based on a combination of fords tech with the bots and a different computer processor system which would allow transfer of previous persons lifetime of brain development, hence you could transfer the soul and knowledge of a living person onto a 3d printed physical clone and effectively a person could live forever.   However-  that doesn't work.    MiB was using Jim as his test subject-  in reality this was for MiB to live forever.   He's since changed his mind about living forever.   
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This seems like the Altered Carbon theme, probably ripped-off from numerous other AI/SciFi tales and recycled in different ways over time.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
This seems like the Altered Carbon theme, probably ripped-off from numerous other AI/SciFi tales and recycled in different ways over time.
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Just to tie-in the altered carbon theme - didn't Charlotte expose the back of her neck for a scan to prove she was human?  I thought that was where they installed the discs in Altered Carbon.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Just to tie-in the altered carbon theme - didn't Charlotte expose the back of her neck for a scan to prove she was human?  I thought that was where they installed the discs in Altered Carbon.
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I'm still 3 episodes behind.  I'm that odd guy who likes spoilers, partly because I ain't got no time to watch twice.  Just reading through the comments here seems to suggest a potential for the notion that the human mind/spirit can be preserved and transferred among physical bodies indefinitely.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Just to tie-in the altered carbon theme - didn't Charlotte expose the back of her neck for a scan to prove she was human?  I thought that was where they installed the discs in Altered Carbon.
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Stacks, not disks. And yes, back of the neck

altered Carbon was very good

 
belljr said:
For someone that really is not as into it as others...

When did we see Ford dead? I don't remember that at all
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The first episode this season, the rescue team came into the town where it all happened and flipped his body over, showing maggots coming out of his face.

scene

 
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Capella said:
Why did they incinerate Devos every single time? 
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Really the only thing I can think of is for the visual and to give it the symbolism of hell, which works with a lot of the dialogue. Unless maybe there is some contamination with William going in?

 
Sinn Fein said:
That could be interesting - and fit with MIB's latest clue - "Look back not forward" or words to that effect.

ETA - "if you are looking forward, you are looking in the wrong direction"
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I took this line to mean that MiB needs to deal with the issues of his past 

i.e. his daughter and/or his wife and what led to her suicide

 
Waingro said:
I took this line to mean that MiB needs to deal with the issues of his past 

i.e. his daughter and/or his wife and what led to her suicide
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Maybe - but not sure why Ford would be focused on that aspect

I assume there is still some form of power struggle/disagreement between Ford and William.  It seems like William was ready to shut things down - but that Ford wanted to continue the work to show its possible to create immortality.

As I think about it - we went from William being "in love" with Dolores - and believing they could create life - to MIB (post- conversation with James Delos) treating the hosts as objects - rather than people.  I assume William had a conversation with Ford - where he said as much - "these are machines and will never be anything more" - and Ford is trying to prove him wrong.

:shrug:

 
Sinn Fein said:
Maybe - but not sure why Ford would be focused on that aspect

I assume there is still some form of power struggle/disagreement between Ford and William.  It seems like William was ready to shut things down - but that Ford wanted to continue the work to show its possible to create immortality.

As I think about it - we went from William being "in love" with Dolores - and believing they could create life - to MIB (post- conversation with James Delos) treating the hosts as objects - rather than people.  I assume William had a conversation with Ford - where he said as much - "these are machines and will never be anything more" - and Ford is trying to prove him wrong.

:shrug:
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Good stuff. There has to be a bit of a redemption arc built in. Every good story has one.

 
Capella said:
Why did they incinerate Devos every single time? 
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They were trying to put his consciousness into a host, so far unsuccessfully.  It appears to be a start over from scratch scenario.  i.e. Once they try they can't just reprogram/reuse the host.

 
jamny said:
But just to mention something I brought up before the season started. In the finale of Season 1, Ford set up this huge party to reveal his new narrative, which culminated in Dolores dying in Teddy's arms after being stabbed by MiB. How would Ford know that MiB would stab Dolores, leading her and Teddy to the beach, if he didn't have some kind of control over MiB's actions? It could be an oversight by the writers of the show but I have yet to see them make mistakes in the story they are telling.
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What if Ford had uploaded human modules like Delos but actually had a way to make them work properly?  I don't think this is inconceivable.  He clearly had knowledge of the program and was way ahead of his time in terms of this technology.... it wouldn't be too hard to imagine that if the normal schlubs who were working on Delos were close, that Ford was already there.  And Ford probably gave zero Fs about Delos, so why would he help that project?  

And what if then killed every single important human that was there all at one time with this robot revolt, then replaced them, uploading their consciousness's to perfect new host bodies and granting them immortality?

Except he inserted some sort of code to force them to be under his control, much like the hosts were controllable by him in Season 1?

And Delores and co are actually still programmed?  To kill the original human's then distract the rescue teams while those bodies selected for replacement are replaced.  And the season ends with the defeat of Delores and then all of these important people who are still themselves but in robot bodies and now subject to the control of Ford all head back out into the larger world?

This is pure guesswork, but it could be what is going on with that story line.  Not sure where the MiB's game fits in (maybe he discovers it all only to die?), nor where Maeve fits in.

 
(HULK) said:
What if Ford had uploaded human modules like Delos but actually had a way to make them work properly?  I don't think this is inconceivable.  He clearly had knowledge of the program and was way ahead of his time in terms of this technology.... it wouldn't be too hard to imagine that if the normal schlubs who were working on Delos were close, that Ford was already there.  And Ford probably gave zero Fs about Delos, so why would he help that project?  

And what if then killed every single important human that was there all at one time with this robot revolt, then replaced them, uploading their consciousness's to perfect new host bodies and granting them immortality?

Except he inserted some sort of code to force them to be under his control, much like the hosts were controllable by him in Season 1?

And Delores and co are actually still programmed?  To kill the original human's then distract the rescue teams while those bodies selected for replacement are replaced.  And the season ends with the defeat of Delores and then all of these important people who are still themselves but in robot bodies and now subject to the control of Ford all head back out into the larger world?

This is pure guesswork, but it could be what is going on with that story line.  Not sure where the MiB's game fits in (maybe he discovers it all only to die?), nor where Maeve fits in.
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What I love about the show is that no matter how much I try to follow along, re-watching episodes and scenes, there's always a feeling that there is something so much bigger happening and that this will go in so many unexpected ways. I try not to predict those larger storylines, preferring to let them unfold, but yours is as plausible as any.  

Now either it was an unusual and rare carelessness on the part of the writers in last season's finale or MiB has to be some kind of bot/host/clone.

 
Capella said:
Why did they incinerate Devos every single time? 
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makes for good visuals-  and drives home the concept that humans view these clones as things of little value- like crushing a spider with your foot.

 
tommyboy said:
makes for good visuals-  and drives home the concept that humans view these clones as things of little value- like crushing a spider with your foot.
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Was Devos in the lab a CLONE or a HOST?? (Maybe I'm reaching too deeply but IMO there is a vast ethical difference.)

 
Capella said:
Why did they incinerate Devos every single time? 
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Fire is the only thing that will completely kill the host.  That's why finding SongofFIreandIce World and Daenerys is the endgame here.

 
I think the human brain in the red sphere is

William's.  He's certainly been in the park enough that they'd have the data they needed.
 
kupcho1 said:
I think the human brain in the red sphere is

William's.  He's certainly been in the park enough that they'd have the data they needed.
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He owns the park.  He has been actively trying to effectively clone someone.  I doubt Delos would need to get his DNA surreptitiously.

Unless - William wants to shut it all down, and Ford wants to keep it going, and Ford is still alive, and killed the real William at the party - leaving the cloned William to survive and come out the other side and decide to keep the park open.

Seems like a copy of Ford is a more logical choice.  :shrug:

 
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