One Battle After Another: New Leo + PTA Movie, opens 9/25 (1 Viewer)

[Ilov80s]

Every Paul Thomas Anderson movie is worth discussion and DiCaprio doesn't make fluff so if he's in something, it gets my attention. This is there first time working together and it sounds like this could be the movie of the year. Reviews are already beyond positive. Steven Spileberg has already seen it at least 3 times. I'll be there Saturday. Supposedly this thing is a full on action adventure which we haven't seen PTA do yet. If you've found many of his movies too weird, this seems to be his most accessible and entertaining.

Critics are saying.:

The movie of the year... If this isn’t what defines a masterpiece then we should just start burning the dictionaries...

One of the great cinematic experiences of all time.

You won’t find another movie this year that feels so alive, so essential, so charged with the power of love and revolution.

The plot:

Bob is a washed-up revolutionary who lives in a state of stoned paranoia, surviving off-grid with his spirited and self-reliant daughter, Willa. When his evil nemesis resurfaces and Willa goes missing, the former radical scrambles to find her.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Dan Lambskin]

 

[fruity pebbles]

I could watch Leo cut the grass so I’m in

 

[Mr. Mojo]

The king of slow, methodical films taking on action.
I think that I need to watch this one.

 

[Ilov80s]

Paging @KarmaPolice

 

[El Floppo]

Inherent Vice 2 electric boogaloo?

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

Critics are saying.:

The movie of the year... If this isn’t what defines a masterpiece then we should just start burning the dictionaries...

One of the great cinematic experiences of all time.

You won’t find another movie this year that feels so alive, so essential, so charged with the power of love and revolution.

doesn't evey trailer say this about their movie?

 

[Ilov80s]

Critics are saying.:

The movie of the year... If this isn’t what defines a masterpiece then we should just start burning the dictionaries...

One of the great cinematic experiences of all time.

You won’t find another movie this year that feels so alive, so essential, so charged with the power of love and revolution.

doesn't evey trailer say this about their movie?

I guess. You are a big RT guy. Go there and see what is being said about it. There certainly is a monetary and connection based review industry that says positive things about almost any movie. But there are still some real critics who say what they really think and remain mostly independent. I am pretty sure based on everything I have seen that this is going to be the movie of the year (and Sinners of course). It's on track for by far the biggest opening weekend of PTA's career. Every indicator is pointing at this thing being really special. Best reviews and early buzz I've seen since Oppenheimer with people throwing out "THE generation defining blockbuster" and "a movie that can not be over hyped".

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

You are a big RT guy

It's like you know nothing about me.

I hate RT. IMDB is my jam. You are right though that there are "critics" out there that are just being paid and I think there's usally a fairly large divide between critics and plbs like me. Obviously I like things like Boogie or Magnolia but something like PDL was just so so to me but I would still say it was "good" I haven't seen alot of the newer PTA stuff though. I hope you enjoy it and have a good time.

 

[Don Quixote]

Looking forward to this one, but not sure when will get a chance to get to the theatre to watch it.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Leo is always Leo, reliable and you know what you're getting
The danger or wildcard in this movie is Sean Penn and whatever Benicio del Toro is asked to do
I stopped getting excited for Sean Penn movies at least a decade ago, haven't seen a lot of Benicio since he did the Sicario films
Benicio was in a Wes Anderson film earlier this year, now Paul Thomas Anderson, lucky him

Mrs loves DiCaprio so we might find our way into a theater for this one.
Not really sure it's gonna do big business, Sean Penn doesn't sell movie tickets, DiCaprio does however.

 

[Ilov80s]

You are a big RT guy

It's like you know nothing about me.

I hate RT. IMDB is my jam.

Yeah I knew that, just wires crossed in brain as I was looking at RT to pull the quotes

 

[Ilov80s]

Leo is always Leo, reliable and you know what you're getting
The danger or wildcard in this movie is Sean Penn and whatever Benicio del Toro is asked to do
I stopped getting excited for Sean Penn movies at least a decade ago, haven't seen a lot of Benicio since he did the Sicario films
Benicio was in a Wes Anderson film earlier this year, now Paul Thomas Anderson, lucky him

Mrs loves DiCaprio so we might find our way into a theater for this one.
Not really sure it's gonna do big business, Sean Penn doesn't sell movie tickets, DiCaprio does however.

It certainly won’t be a $300 million movie but it actually won’t take much to be the biggest opening weekend for PTA. His movies have never made much money.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Leo is always Leo, reliable and you know what you're getting
The danger or wildcard in this movie is Sean Penn and whatever Benicio del Toro is asked to do
I stopped getting excited for Sean Penn movies at least a decade ago, haven't seen a lot of Benicio since he did the Sicario films
Benicio was in a Wes Anderson film earlier this year, now Paul Thomas Anderson, lucky him

Mrs loves DiCaprio so we might find our way into a theater for this one.
Not really sure it's gonna do big business, Sean Penn doesn't sell movie tickets, DiCaprio does however.

It certainly won’t be a $300 million movie but it actually won’t take much to be the biggest opening weekend for PTA. His movies have never made much money.

Hard Eight has always been one of my favorite films, almost all the actors involved are top notch.
Samuel L Jackson did this film before he made Jackie Brown but he sure seems like he found Ordell in this film first

 

[Joey Wright]

Have my ticket for 2 PM on Friday!

 

[Ilov80s]

Have my ticket for 2 PM on Friday!

3:00 Saturday and then dinner reservations at a place advertising that it’s Negroni week. So yeah I’m pretty excited for the weekend lol.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Every Paul Thomas Anderson movie is worth discussion and DiCaprio doesn't make fluff so if he's in something, it gets my attention. This is there first time working together and it sounds like this could be the movie of the year. Reviews are already beyond positive. Steven Spileberg has already seen it at least 3 times. I'll be there Saturday. Supposedly this thing is a full on action adventure which we haven't seen PTA do yet. If you've found many of his movies too weird, this seems to be his most accessible and entertaining.

Critics are saying.:

The movie of the year... If this isn’t what defines a masterpiece then we should just start burning the dictionaries...

One of the great cinematic experiences of all time.

You won’t find another movie this year that feels so alive, so essential, so charged with the power of love and revolution.

The plot:

Bob is a washed-up revolutionary who lives in a state of stoned paranoia, surviving off-grid with his spirited and self-reliant daughter, Willa. When his evil nemesis resurfaces and Willa goes missing, the former radical scrambles to find her.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Going tonight.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Rookies.

I took off the day and seeing it at 2:30 today.

 

[Softballguy]

Every Paul Thomas Anderson movie is worth discussion and DiCaprio doesn't make fluff so if he's in something, it gets my attention. This is there first time working together and it sounds like this could be the movie of the year. Reviews are already beyond positive. Steven Spileberg has already seen it at least 3 times. I'll be there Saturday. Supposedly this thing is a full on action adventure which we haven't seen PTA do yet. If you've found many of his movies too weird, this seems to be his most accessible and entertaining.

Critics are saying.:

The movie of the year... If this isn’t what defines a masterpiece then we should just start burning the dictionaries...

One of the great cinematic experiences of all time.

You won’t find another movie this year that feels so alive, so essential, so charged with the power of love and revolution.

The plot:

Bob is a washed-up revolutionary who lives in a state of stoned paranoia, surviving off-grid with his spirited and self-reliant daughter, Willa. When his evil nemesis resurfaces and Willa goes missing, the former radical scrambles to find her.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Going tonight.

Same here. My wife can't go until Saturday, but I'm not waiting... I'll be flying solo instead.

 

[Ilov80s]

I can’t wait to hear all the reports back

 

[KarmaPolice]

FFA's resident PTA fanboy reporting in with a hot take: I liked Eddington better.

 

[Ilov80s]

FFA's resident PTA fanboy reporting in with a hot take: I liked Eddington better.

I obviously can't comment, haven't seen either but you are also the FFA's official Ari Aster fanboy as well so I guess that checks out. You seemed worried before it came out that it would be too much action. Was that the case?

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

it’s Negroni week.

no idea what this was. Thought it might be some kind of pasta but nope. I don't drink anymore so I know very little lol

 

[KarmaPolice]

FFA's resident PTA fanboy reporting in with a hot take: I liked Eddington better.

I obviously can't comment, haven't seen either but you are also the FFA's official Ari Aster fanboy as well so I guess that checks out. You seemed worried before it came out that it would be too much action. Was that the case?

Fair point. I will just say I was disappointed and leave it at that for now and let others watch it. I have the feeling I will be in the minority, and that is fine.

 

[Ilov80s]

FFA's resident PTA fanboy reporting in with a hot take: I liked Eddington better.

I obviously can't comment, haven't seen either but you are also the FFA's official Ari Aster fanboy as well so I guess that checks out. You seemed worried before it came out that it would be too much action. Was that the case?

Fair point. I will just say I was disappointed and leave it at that for now and let others watch it. I have the feeling I will be in the minority, and that is fine.

Can't wait to see it and tall about it. It's got 47k reviews on Letterboxd already and is at 4..5 stars which makes it just about the highest rated movie in history. It will come down a bit since obviously everyone seeing it now is very predisposed to like it but it's a really high mark to come out the gate at.

 

[KarmaPolice]

FFA's resident PTA fanboy reporting in with a hot take: I liked Eddington better.

I obviously can't comment, haven't seen either but you are also the FFA's official Ari Aster fanboy as well so I guess that checks out. You seemed worried before it came out that it would be too much action. Was that the case?

Fair point. I will just say I was disappointed and leave it at that for now and let others watch it. I have the feeling I will be in the minority, and that is fine.

Can't wait to see it and tall about it. It's got 47k reviews on Letterboxd already and is at 4..5 stars which makes it just about the highest rated movie in history. It will come down a bit since obviously everyone seeing it now is very predisposed to like it but it's a really high mark to come out the gate at.

I am curious to read some reviews and listen to some podcasts to hear what exactly people connected with. I brought up the Aster movie because I see a lot of parallels between the two: their most "accessible" movies, both do some action and shoot outs for the first time, both have a side plot I didn't like much, both have weird last 10mins or so, etc..

I don't remember bringing up being nervous about too much action. You could say that is the case for me, but I think more accurately is that it got away from what my core love of PTA movies are which are the characters, their interactions, and their twisted relationships. I didn't get nearly enough of that in this one and my expectations were that I was going to get more familial interactions and less Sean Penn, but that was reversed. I am embarrassed to say I also checked my phone a couple times to see how much more was left. When I think about my reaction to the movie, I think most was a negative reaction to Sean Penn and he is also involved in the subplot I mentioned above. I just wasn't having it today, I guess. Unlike other movies I saw this year like Eddington and Weapons I didn't have a desire to see it again or talk about it much after seeing it this afternoon.

 

[Ilov80s]

FFA's resident PTA fanboy reporting in with a hot take: I liked Eddington better.

I obviously can't comment, haven't seen either but you are also the FFA's official Ari Aster fanboy as well so I guess that checks out. You seemed worried before it came out that it would be too much action. Was that the case?

Fair point. I will just say I was disappointed and leave it at that for now and let others watch it. I have the feeling I will be in the minority, and that is fine.

Can't wait to see it and tall about it. It's got 47k reviews on Letterboxd already and is at 4..5 stars which makes it just about the highest rated movie in history. It will come down a bit since obviously everyone seeing it now is very predisposed to like it but it's a really high mark to come out the gate at.

I am curious to read some reviews and listen to some podcasts to hear what exactly people connected with. I brought up the Aster movie because I see a lot of parallels between the two: their most "accessible" movies, both do some action and shoot outs for the first time, both have a side plot I didn't like much, both have weird last 10mins or so, etc..

I don't remember bringing up being nervous about too much action. You could say that is the case for me, but I think more accurately is that it got away from what my core love of PTA movies are which are the characters, their interactions, and their twisted relationships. I didn't get nearly enough of that in this one and my expectations were that I was going to get more familial interactions and less Sean Penn, but that was reversed. I am embarrassed to say I also checked my phone a couple times to see how much more was left. When I think about my reaction to the movie, I think most was a negative reaction to Sean Penn and he is also involved in the subplot I mentioned above. I just wasn't having it today, I guess. Unlike other movies I saw this year like Eddington and Weapons I didn't have a desire to see it again or talk about it much after seeing it this afternoon.

Hmmm...maybe you never expressed apprehension about the action but that was just my sense from our conversation. Perhaps that was me reading something into your comment that wasn't there.

 

[KarmaPolice]

FFA's resident PTA fanboy reporting in with a hot take: I liked Eddington better.

I obviously can't comment, haven't seen either but you are also the FFA's official Ari Aster fanboy as well so I guess that checks out. You seemed worried before it came out that it would be too much action. Was that the case?

Fair point. I will just say I was disappointed and leave it at that for now and let others watch it. I have the feeling I will be in the minority, and that is fine.

Can't wait to see it and tall about it. It's got 47k reviews on Letterboxd already and is at 4..5 stars which makes it just about the highest rated movie in history. It will come down a bit since obviously everyone seeing it now is very predisposed to like it but it's a really high mark to come out the gate at.

I am curious to read some reviews and listen to some podcasts to hear what exactly people connected with. I brought up the Aster movie because I see a lot of parallels between the two: their most "accessible" movies, both do some action and shoot outs for the first time, both have a side plot I didn't like much, both have weird last 10mins or so, etc..

I don't remember bringing up being nervous about too much action. You could say that is the case for me, but I think more accurately is that it got away from what my core love of PTA movies are which are the characters, their interactions, and their twisted relationships. I didn't get nearly enough of that in this one and my expectations were that I was going to get more familial interactions and less Sean Penn, but that was reversed. I am embarrassed to say I also checked my phone a couple times to see how much more was left. When I think about my reaction to the movie, I think most was a negative reaction to Sean Penn and he is also involved in the subplot I mentioned above. I just wasn't having it today, I guess. Unlike other movies I saw this year like Eddington and Weapons I didn't have a desire to see it again or talk about it much after seeing it this afternoon.

Hmmm...maybe you never expressed apprehension about the action but that was just my sense from our conversation. Perhaps that was me reading something into your comment that wasn't there.

It's possible I am in a movie funk as well. I started the horror season early this week and haven't had success there either. I will rewatch the movie again since it's a PTA. I didn't like TWBB much the first time I saw it either.

 

[rockaction]

Hey, I have some thoughts. I ended with these next few sentences, but I want to put my conclusion up front because it works better here.

I love that you started the thread, Ilov, and I know you a bit by now. You probably did it for a bunch of people and especially KP. You've always been a good dude and I appreciate your thoughtfulness always. I hope this movie just rocks for you all and that you get a charge out of it. PTA doing a blockbuster is something I truly hope works on every level. That kind of investment by studios and financiers into people who are at the height of their craft in an artistic and intellectual sense is something we desperately need. Maybe if it works it can be a model for our political world, which is a lot like the entertainment industry these days. Money sure is flying around Washington for a little gladiator sport and entertainment qualities embedded in a televisual performance.

So I figured I might chime in, but it might be a drag. I hope it isn't. I hope it adds to the thread instead of detracting from the excitement and anticipation you and others have.

I'm a lot like KP with action movies. I do not enjoy them a whole lot. I'm sure KP has thought of this, but if this an action movie, deep character development was never going to happen. Maybe I'm wrong because given his laments I'm not really sure KP did think of that.

KP, what's the scoop? The first thing I thought of when I heard about this and saw the trailers was that

1) I don't care for action movies and the stuff that makes Paul Thomas Anderson great doesn't include French Connection homages and other things like that. Very clever to make his lead character an explosives specialist (POW! BAM! BLOW **** UP!!!), but action movies titillate other people and that stuff bores me

2) I do not like the older version of Sean Penn and Hollywood's understanding of how racism happens or gets encoded into law. Hollywood usually just deals with human cruelty and racism and never explores either the economic or social conditions that make life a powder keg where the ugliness happens. American History X apparently had a wildly different ending that was much more realistic but Ed Norton refused to do it and it totally changed the message of the movie and how the previous few hours should be viewed. Hollywood never deals with this stuff with nuance or accuracy. Penn is likely nothing more than a reductive cartoon in this move, and that would befit a guy that visited Hugo Chavez and praised his government and economic program, which leads me to number . . .

3) I really don't care for the sociopolitical worldview PTA and his literary influences have and build on, so even if this is mainstream politics or hopeful politics, like I'm hearing it is (swoon!—PTA is a father with teenagers and married to Maya Rudolph—just normal folks here, nothing to see) there will be a ton of premises and sympathies in there I likely do not even come close to sharing, and those will actually sort of bother me because those assumptions and themes will be slightly radical and now mainstreamed if this movie blows up. Then I'll have to deal with "deep thinkers" who begin to regurgitate those assumptions and incorporate them into their thinking. It will cost me several hundred man hours of typing to rebut all those things that will now become shibboleths.

And there you go.

 

[Judge Smails]

Tickets for tomorrow night. First live movie since the Top Gun reboot.

 

[KarmaPolice]

So I figured I might chime in, but it might be a drag. I hope it isn't. I hope it adds to the thread instead of detracting from the excitement and anticipation you and others have.

I'm a lot like KP with action movies. I do not enjoy them a whole lot. I'm sure KP has thought of this, but if this an action movie, deep character development was never going to happen. Maybe I'm wrong because given his laments I'm not really sure KP did think of that.

KP, what's the scoop? The first thing I thought of when I heard about this and saw the trailers was that

@rockaction - I did think of that, but I disagree slightly with your premise above, or at least my expectation was slightly different. My retort is that I was expecting an "action" movie more on the lines of a stoner version of Heat based on the trailer I saw, knowing PTA, and recently seeing his other adaptation of a Pynchon novel. IF you call that an action movie, those are the type that I point to that can have really well shot action scenes but also have deeper character development - I feel I know all the characters and their motivations in a movie like that. I think it can happen, but often I feel it doesn't, so I tend to stay away from the genre. More often I feel the focus is on the chase and explosions and not the characters - which usually tends to lose me. Overall that was what happened with me during the movie and why it lost me by the end. It was more of a chase movie and less a character driven movie with kick *** set pieces like I was hoping for when I sat down.

All that above is why I usually try to go into movies completely cold and try to avoid trailers and reviews when I can. My other expectation was that I would be laughing more - I typically find his movies funny at least. I think all the laughs for me were also already in the trailer and I knew were coming. That is the downside of seeing movies in the theater, I guess - I saw the trailer for this one when I went to see Eddington, otherwise I am sure I would have taken the same approach I did with that one and Weapons - go in as cold as possible. I am not going to be the weirdo who covers their eyes and ears during trailers, and I also hate being late to movies and climbing over people to get to a seat, so I am not sure what to do on that front.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yeah, the hype from critics is going to be off the charts. Listening to The Big Picture podcast and hearing "best movie of the decade" type of talk and nothing but positive gushing over it. They also talked about how funny the last 1/2 of the was. I feel I saw a different movie this time, but that happens.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Saw it last night on Imax.

Responses were fascinating. My impression is it'll be revered as one the greatest movies ever made. The audience in Knoxville, TN applauded at the end.

I thought it was ok.

Acting was excellent. Beautifully shot. Required some huge leaps of faith I wasn't expecting. I was surprised at the comedic attempts as I thought it was going to be much more realistic and dramatic. The comedy and ridiculous caricature parts felt weirdly disjointed.

It definitely did not feel too much "action movie". I'm not a big fan of gratitous over the top gross violence and they handled that perfectly I thought.

The political violence and how it was portrayed was nauseating.

The last hour was predictable but also very well done.

The daughter was fantastic and will be a superstar.

I expect I'll be in the very small minority to not be fawning over it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Saw it last night on Imax.

Responses were fascinating. My impression is it'll be revered as one the greatest movies ever made. The audience in Knoxville, TN applauded at the end.

I thought it was ok.

Acting was excellent. Beautifully shot. Required some huge leaps of faith I wasn't expecting. I was surprised at the comedic attempts as I thought it was going to be much more realistic and dramatic. The comedy and ridiculous caricature parts felt weirdly disjointed.

It definitely did not feel too much "action movie". I'm not a big fan of gratitous over the top gross violence and they handled that perfectly I thought.

The political violence and how it was portrayed was nauseating.

The last hour was predictable but also very well done.

The daughter was fantastic and will be a superstar.

I expect I'll be in the very small minority to not be fawning over it.

I am a hermit, so I tend to go to movies in the afternoon solo with a lack of crowd. You mention the comedy parts - was the crowd engaged and laughing a lot during the movie? The podcast I mentioned was going on a lot about how funny the movie was in the last 1/2 and even mentioned parts with Penn being funny. I didn't get that personally, and the small crowd at my show didn't laugh much either. I am guessing yes since you said there was applause at the end, but I was curious about the crowd's reaction.


I agree about the daughter - I thought she was great.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Saw it last night on Imax.

Responses were fascinating. My impression is it'll be revered as one the greatest movies ever made. The audience in Knoxville, TN applauded at the end.

I thought it was ok.

Acting was excellent. Beautifully shot. Required some huge leaps of faith I wasn't expecting. I was surprised at the comedic attempts as I thought it was going to be much more realistic and dramatic. The comedy and ridiculous caricature parts felt weirdly disjointed.

It definitely did not feel too much "action movie". I'm not a big fan of gratitous over the top gross violence and they handled that perfectly I thought.

The political violence and how it was portrayed was nauseating.

The last hour was predictable but also very well done.

The daughter was fantastic and will be a superstar.

I expect I'll be in the very small minority to not be fawning over it.

I am a hermit, so I tend to go to movies in the afternoon solo with a lack of crowd. You mention the comedy parts - was the crowd engaged and laughing a lot during the movie? The podcast I mentioned was going on a lot about how funny the movie was in the last 1/2 and even mentioned parts with Penn being funny. I didn't get that personally, and the small crowd at my show didn't laugh much either. I am guessing yes since you said there was applause at the end, but I was curious about the crowd's reaction.


I agree about the daughter - I thought she was great.

Yes. The audience laughed a good bit. It was just such a cringe, pathetic and ridiculous caricature juxtaposed with the bad guy that it just seemed odd.

Merging an SNL skit with a serious movie seemed weird. I get why and it'll obviously be hyper popular to portray Penn the way they did.

And also, maybe it's just a disconnect with my personal experience. I know a Colonel well, and am friends with a General and an Admiral. I suppose every group has it's bad apple psychos but it seemed odd.

 

[rockaction]

Oh my, Joe, did I ever write a long post that I thought better of posting. I'll just say that Hollywood and the entertainment industry have been reducing military men that are higher-ranking to absurdly evil caricatures since Dr. Strangelove. It's sort of what Hollywood has done very often since the mid-'60s, especially after the upheaval of everything in '68. That it surprises you is what surprises me, but we're a little different in age.

In fact, when I was growing up and in my first post-collegiate years, I was surprised that in the movie A Few Good Men, head writer Aaron Sorkin, who never met a cosmopolitan cause that implicitly bordered on anti-Americanism that he couldn't embrace, humanized the character of Dawson in the movie. Despite Sorkin's assessment that the military men that act out the Code Red in the movie are culpable of a heinous crime and slightly (though almost unwittingly) evil, he makes a concession about the situation's ambiguity and difficulty, a concession and exploration of a theme that was almost a step in humanizing the military in Hollywood. But again, it's the brass that is evil, and a soon-to-be general is found guilty of ordering unsanctioned military retribution to its own members.

That said, at least he allowed military members both conscience and honor, and then penitence, which were three more acknowledgements of their capacity for humanity and human emotions than other writers were willing to cede. Now, the military did have a brief stint in the eighties in Hollywood where there was jingoism and lionization, but very rarely for the higher-ranking brass; and that was only for a brief moment in time—things reverted back to normal like before, and after the '80s closed out, we got down to the brass tacks of ridicule and contempt of the colonels and general like we had from around the 1965 until 2025.

I went into it in quite a bit of almost floridly descriptive detail, but I left it on the cutting room floor. I'm sort of bummed by that. Took me an hour.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Oh my, Joe, did I ever write a long post that I thought better of posting. I'll just say that Hollywood and the entertainment industry have been reducing military men that are higher-ranking to absurdly evil caricatures since Dr. Strangelove. It's sort of what Hollywood has done very often since the mid-'60s, especially after the upheaval of everything in '68. That it surprises you is what surprises me, but we're a little different in age.

In fact, when I was growing up and in my first post-collegiate years, I was surprised that in the movie A Few Good Men, head writer Aaron Sorkin, who never met a cosmopolitan cause that implicitly bordered on anti-Americanism that he couldn't embrace, humanized the character of Dawson in the movie. Despite Sorkin's assessment that the military men that act out the Code Red in the movie are culpable of a heinous crime and slightly (though almost unwittingly) evil, he makes a concession about the situation's ambiguity and difficulty, a concession and exploration of a theme that was almost a step in humanizing the military in Hollywood. But again, it's the brass that is evil, and a soon-to-be general is found guilty of ordering unsanctioned military retribution to its own members.

That said, at least he allowed military members both conscience and honor, and then penitence, which were three more acknowledgements of their capacity for humanity and human emotions than other writers were willing to cede. Now, the military did have a brief stint in the eighties in Hollywood where there was jingoism and lionization, but very rarely for the higher-ranking brass; and that was only for a brief moment in time—things reverted back to normal like before, and after the '80s closed out, we got down to the brass tacks of ridicule and contempt of the colonels and general like we had from around the 1965 until 2025.

I went into it in quite a bit of almost floridly descriptive detail, but I left it on the cutting room floor. I'm sort of bummed by that. Took me an hour.

Understood.

Interestingly, I saw A Few Good Men in the theater with my Colonel friend. Walking out of the movie was interesting.

My takeaway was he had a dramatically different opinion of the movie than the masses did.

He completely understood Colonel Jessup's side of the argument and the "You need men like me on that wall." And the "I don't have the luxury that regular people do".

It was an eye-opening and pivotal moment in my life.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Bigger point for the movie - the ridiculous caricature and buffoonery of how they portrayed the military and Penn in this movie was so lame in my opinion.

Again, I'm sure every group has bad apples. But this seemed just like fabrication to try and make some bigger point. Which obviously has an audience with an appetite to eat it up.

 

[rockaction]

Understood.

Interestingly, I saw A Few Good Men in the theater with my Colonel friend. Walking out of the movie was interesting.

My takeaway was he had a dramatically different opinion of the movie than the masses did.

He completely understood Colonel Jessup's side of the argument and the "You need men like me on that wall." And the "I don't have the luxury that regular people do".

It was an eye-opening and pivotal moment in my life.

Sure thing. I had a slightly older acquaintance where I worked once talk to me about the movie and Nicholson's character and he said something that stuck with me because I found it to be true later in life. He said that the movie backfired on Sorkin because nobody remembers the lesson or the point Sorkin is trying to make about the unthinking following of orders. What your average person remembers and recites with gusto is Jessep's utter disdain for Sorkin's line of thinking and point. What Sorkin sees as an admission of terrible guilt that leads to an arrest and conviction, the public sees as doing that which is necessary; and if you are faced with an inflexible bureaucracy that makes it impossible to defend yourself and your honor, then you don't hate Nicholson's speech—you revel in it.

Nobody recites or says Weinberg's lines dealing with conscience. They yell Nicholson's, "You want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! Deep down . . ."

You get the picture. Tons of people latch onto that. It's not what Sorkin intended but once you release your creation into the world, the world interprets it.

Bigger point for the movie - the ridiculous caricature and buffoonery of how they portrayed the military and Penn in this movie was so lame in my opinion.

Again, I'm sure every group has bad apples. But this seemed just like fabrication to try and make some bigger point. Which obviously has an audience with an appetite to eat it up.

Oh heck yeah. That was my complaint in my post. It's likely completely ham-handed, reductive, and therefore silly. And not silly because of the way in which they try to play it for laughs , but silly because they so predictably do.

It's funny, Joe. My mind isn't a closed mind nor is it always assumptive. I just know these tropes and these attempts at trying to do this. I know how PTA sees the world. I've heard it for thirty years. It's why I don't watch scripted television or movies anymore. The level of philosophical and political discourse is so comically bad in our entertainment that I haven't seen anything (not one thing) in about fifteen years that I thought to myself had an inkling of understanding about the world or an iota of profundity.

Just haven't. So I'm skipping this. Sounds like typcial anarcho-Hollywood-lefty agitprop.

eta* And the real giveaway is when the lefty press starts using words like "courage," "brave," "necessary," and all those other words we once reserved for people who put their lives on the line for service and for honor and rectitude.

That's why the country came together after 9/11 in such a unified way, I think. It was an attack on civilians merely for existing in a particular system, but what really pushed it over the top was that firemen and policemen clearly went to rescue people knowing they might die. Some knowing they would die. And they went to try to save the people in the buildings anyway.

That's bravery. Not some movie director and Sean Penn likening people performing these same services to uncontrollably angry and simple-minded sadistic fascists.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Seeing it on Sunday with wife and teenagers. My daughter is bringing her boyfriend, which is annoying.

 

[Ilov80s]

Maybe I haven’t seen A Few Good Men in awhile but didn’t Jessup order an illegal beat down of a soldier because he was bad at his job and was going to report a bunch of military violations? and it’s inspired by real events too. I guess this thread just needs to be shut down because it’s already gone political it seems. That wasn’t my intention.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The political violence and how it was portrayed was nauseating

More to the point, I found the tacit approval of political violence and positioning those as the heroes and and how it was portrayed nauseating.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Maybe I haven’t seen A Few Good Men in awhile but didn’t Jessup order an illegal beat down of a soldier because he was bad at his job and was going to report a bunch of military violations? and it’s inspired by real events too. I guess this thread just needs to be shut down because it’s already gone political it seems. That wasn’t my intention.

I agree with you. Both on Jessup and the fact that this thread is getting political when it doesn't really need to be.

 

[Ilov80s]

Do we also protest Euripdes and Goya and Wilfred Owen and Joseph Heller and Bob Dylan for how they portrayed military leadership? I am more curious than ever. There is a lot to address here and a lot that I think is perhaps inaccurate in terms of the history of movies but that all seems to fall into a subforum that no longer exists. So, I will just wait to see the movie and see what I can say from there.

 

[rockaction]

Do we also protest Euripdes and Goya and Wilfred Owen and Joseph Heller and Bob Dylan for how they portrayed military leadership? I am more curious than ever. There is a lot to address here and a lot that I think is perhaps inaccurate in terms of the history of movies but that all seems to fall into a subforum that no longer exists. So, I will just wait to see the movie and see what I can say from there.

Dylan was satirical and not so much portraying military folks as reductive imbeciles. And Dylan was also smart and perceptive about the human condition and illuminated us while mocking institutions. It’s been said Heller exposed the paradoxes of war and its tensions and cruel absurdity with wicked wit and intelligence.

We don’t protest these people because they are fiercely independent and perceptive and break new ground.

I seriously question whether the guy who quite publicly fawned over an odious thug like Hugo Chavez—who preferred his government to the US’s has much to tell me about the human condition.

 

[rockaction]

Maybe I haven’t seen A Few Good Men in awhile but didn’t Jessup order an illegal beat down of a soldier because he was bad at his job and was going to report a bunch of military violations? and it’s inspired by real events too. I guess this thread just needs to be shut down because it’s already gone political it seems. That wasn’t my intention.

Yes, he did order the Code Red. I don't side with Col. Jessep/Jessup. I find him odious. I was just relaying that many people didn't find what he did to be wrong, but that it was a human calculation to save lives in the end.

And that when you live in a bubble like Aaron Sorkin does, you might write these speeches you think are fundamentally awful and evil, but people see the point and actually agree with it. There's an irony in that.

 

[Ilov80s]

Do we also protest Euripdes and Goya and Wilfred Owen and Joseph Heller and Bob Dylan for how they portrayed military leadership? I am more curious than ever. There is a lot to address here and a lot that I think is perhaps inaccurate in terms of the history of movies but that all seems to fall into a subforum that no longer exists. So, I will just wait to see the movie and see what I can say from there.

Dylan was satirical and not so much portraying military folks as reductive imbeciles. And Dylan was also smart and perceptive about the human condition and illuminated us while mocking institutions. It’s been said Heller exposed the paradoxes of war and its tensions and cruel absurdity with wicked wit and intelligence.

We don’t protest these people because they are fiercely independent and perceptive and break new ground.

I seriously question whether the guy who quite publicly fawned over an odious thug like Hugo Chavez—who preferred his government to the US’s has much to tell me about the human condition.

Penn is an actor. He's playing a role, he didn't write it. I mean he was probably cast for it because of the personal baggage he would bring into the role and insane fervor he would bring to it.

Dr. Strangelove was also satirical and I think Kubrick was perceptive about the human condition while also mocking instituons and some roles people play in them.

 

[rockaction]

I gotcha, bro. I'm not confusing make believe and reality.

He's choosing to play that role for a reason. It takes about two IQ points for me to infer where that logical leap he's making is going.

I don't even like the politics these guys hate. I think I'm mostly on board disliking what they dislike. It's weird. I dunno.

I've heard PTA talk and explain his worldview. I loved Magnolia. I watched it over fifty times. The pacing, the music, the dialogue, and the plaintive nature of it made sense to me.

So I know kind of how the thinks. I just shared an anecdote about PTA and some personal knowledge about him I learned from a friend around 2000, but I deleted it.

So I will stop. You can't really lament that we're discussing the topical nature of the movie. It's kind of hard to avoid its topicality. It is clearly a topically relevant political movie and assessment.

Dunno. If Joe is talking about political violence, or violence in the name of either right-wing or left-wing causes, what do we do with it? I'm really not making a pro-ICE or anti-ICE comment, and I hadn't even mentioned ICE. Everything I've read is freaking political in nature regarding this movie.

I'm at a sort of loss.

 

[Ilov80s]

Maybe I haven’t seen A Few Good Men in awhile but didn’t Jessup order an illegal beat down of a soldier because he was bad at his job and was going to report a bunch of military violations? and it’s inspired by real events too. I guess this thread just needs to be shut down because it’s already gone political it seems. That wasn’t my intention.

Yes, he did order the Code Red. I don't side with Col. Jessep/Jessup. I find him odious. I was just relaying that many people didn't find what he did to be wrong, but that it was a human calculation to save lives in the end.

And that when you live in a bubble like Aaron Sorkin does, you might write these speeches you think are fundamentally awful and evil, but people see the point and actually agree with it. There's an irony in that.

Oh yeah that happens a lot in all directions. An artist makes something trying to send message A and 75% of people walk away with message B. Fight Club is one of the most obvious.

Also, we all live in bubbles. Some bigger, some smaller. But no person lives in the whole world.

 

[Ilov80s]

Ok I will just stop and wait until I see it to discuss it any further.