Online Will? (1 Viewer)

[Ron Swanson]

Anyone have any recommendations for a preferred or avoid online will company? We had a lawyer put together our last will because we had a somewhat complex situation but that no longer exists and our new situation is very simple so I'd prefer to just DYI rather than go through the pageantry of a lawyer prepared will. Or perhaps even a lawyer recommendation who is willing to handle it for us remotely that is well versed in FL wills. I just don't want to go the typical lawyer office visit, follow up, etc. Price isn't the driving factor.

 

[Zow]

If price isn't the driving factor, you're potentially risking significant legal errors in an important document simply because you don't want to do a couple of office visits. As such, I think you're making a significant mistake by not having an estate planning attorney draft your documents even if they are not all that complicated.

 

[Keerock]

If price isn't the driving factor, you're potentially risking significant legal errors in an important document simply because you don't want to do a couple of office visits. As such, I think you're making a significant mistake by not having an estate planning attorney draft your documents even if they are not all that complicated.

I agree with this. A will is just a small part of your estate plan and IMO requires more than an online template can provide.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Recently updated our estate plan and for the peace of mind to know it's done correctly a professional was worth every penny.

Eta. It was fairly complicated, but even if it wasn't i still think it was worth it.

 

[Zow]

The other nice thing about having a lawyer do it is that by doing so that lawyer's malpractice insurance may help cover any errors whereas some cheap online document won't.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Isn't most of this stuff now defined through trusts and if will exist, they just dump everything into the trust?

 

[Thorn]

Isn't most of this stuff now defined through trusts and if will exist, they just dump everything into the trust?

Not sure what "defined through trusts" means, but a trust does not spring up out of nowhere. You have to create it in advance. It may obviate the need for a will.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Isn't most of this stuff now defined through trusts and if will exist, they just dump everything into the trust?

Not sure what "defined through trusts" means, but a trust does not spring up out of nowhere. You have to create it in advance. It may obviate the need for a will.

Sure, a trust has to be created. I just thought the days of waiting in suspense for the lawyer to read the will and learn who got what was over. My grandparents went the trust route. My dad is going the trust route. Feels like if you own a house, these sorts of things should be trust focused over will focused. But that's definitely a FEEL for me, certainly not a lawyer.

 

[Thorn]

Isn't most of this stuff now defined through trusts and if will exist, they just dump everything into the trust?

Not sure what "defined through trusts" means, but a trust does not spring up out of nowhere. You have to create it in advance. It may obviate the need for a will.

Sure, a trust has to be created. I just thought the days of waiting in suspense for the lawyer to read the will and learn who got what was over. My grandparents went the trust route. My dad is going the trust route. Feels like if you own a house, these sorts of things should be trust focused over will focused. But that's definitely a FEEL for me, certainly not a lawyer.

Depends on a lot of factors. What assets you have; whether your estate is big enough to trigger estate tax; whether probate administration in your state is timely/costly or not; whether your wishes differ from your state's intestacy rules. And on and on. Personally I think trusts are overused if anything, but it's highly case-specific.

 

[guru_007]

Anyone have any recommendations for a preferred or avoid online will company? We had a lawyer put together our last will because we had a somewhat complex situation but that no longer exists and our new situation is very simple so I'd prefer to just DYI rather than go through the pageantry of a lawyer prepared will. Or perhaps even a lawyer recommendation who is willing to handle it for us remotely that is well versed in FL wills. I just don't want to go the typical lawyer office visit, follow up, etc. Price isn't the driving factor.

Whole lotta lawyers piping up how vital it is to go to a lawyer.
If there is nothing out of the ordinary, I personally see no reason to using an online resource.
eta I used legalzoom about 10 years ago to draft one for me and my wife. I need to update it however as I'm still alive. Will use an online source again. Hoping for more alive time.

 

[Thorn]

Anyone have any recommendations for a preferred or avoid online will company? We had a lawyer put together our last will because we had a somewhat complex situation but that no longer exists and our new situation is very simple so I'd prefer to just DYI rather than go through the pageantry of a lawyer prepared will. Or perhaps even a lawyer recommendation who is willing to handle it for us remotely that is well versed in FL wills. I just don't want to go the typical lawyer office visit, follow up, etc. Price isn't the driving factor.

Whole lotta lawyers piping up how vital it is to go to a lawyer.
If there is nothing out of the ordinary, I personally see no reason to using an online resource.
eta I used legalzoom about 10 years ago to draft one for me and my wife. I need to update it however as I'm still alive. Will use an online source again. Hoping for more alive time.

we see the fallout when this stuff doesn't work.

Currently working with a family that "DIY'ed" a deed from dad to the child he wanted it to go to. Deed is completely ineffective, and now all four siblings are co-owners who do not get along.

 

[beer 30]

Good question, one I've been wondering about myself for a while. We have a half assed will but I'm not confident it would hold up in court. Luckily there are only two children, they like each other and we don't really have a pot to piss in so there won't be a lot to contend. We just signed up with a new bank and one of the things they offer is setting up a simple will and/or trust for no charge.

My on wills & trusts from an experience I had closing my brothers estate a few years ago in CA during COVID. Brother thought he had set everything up appropriately with a will and named executor and a trust he had set up. The problem we ran into was he never transferred anything into the trust so the trust didn't really own anything. I was the executor of the trust, got a hold of his lawyer friend who knew the guy who wrote the trust and after about 6 months of back & forth with California, had the judge determine that his intent was to fund the trust so he let me sell the house and his assets. It was a bit of a nightmare but ultimately worked out.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Anyone have any recommendations for a preferred or avoid online will company? We had a lawyer put together our last will because we had a somewhat complex situation but that no longer exists and our new situation is very simple so I'd prefer to just DYI rather than go through the pageantry of a lawyer prepared will. Or perhaps even a lawyer recommendation who is willing to handle it for us remotely that is well versed in FL wills. I just don't want to go the typical lawyer office visit, follow up, etc. Price isn't the driving factor.

Whole lotta lawyers piping up how vital it is to go to a lawyer.
If there is nothing out of the ordinary, I personally see no reason to using an online resource.
eta I used legalzoom about 10 years ago to draft one for me and my wife. I need to update it however as I'm still alive. Will use an online source again. Hoping for more alive time.

To be fair, I can see how my question is a like catnip to a lawyer. Not intentional, gents.

I think i've found a middle ground. I can create my docs myself using Legal zoom and they have a package that includes professional lawyer review and consultation if needed. That should cover all bases, no?

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Isn't most of this stuff now defined through trusts and if will exist, they just dump everything into the trust?

Not sure what "defined through trusts" means, but a trust does not spring up out of nowhere. You have to create it in advance. It may obviate the need for a will.

Sure, a trust has to be created. I just thought the days of waiting in suspense for the lawyer to read the will and learn who got what was over. My grandparents went the trust route. My dad is going the trust route. Feels like if you own a house, these sorts of things should be trust focused over will focused. But that's definitely a FEEL for me, certainly not a lawyer.

Depends on a lot of factors. What assets you have; whether your estate is big enough to trigger estate tax; whether probate administration in your state is timely/costly or not; whether your wishes differ from your state's intestacy rules. And on and on. Personally I think trusts are overused if anything, but it's highly case-specific.

If one can take the government out of the equation completely, it seems like a positive. I might be misunderstanding you, but it seems to me that you are saying "if your state rules are pretty simple, then don't worry about it". What if I don't want my kids to have to worry about the rules and how complicated/easy they are? Real estate tax benefits were a primary driver for my grandparents. They bought a house for $15K in 1973. Now the house would sell for almost $500K. That step up provision is a major benefit for my dad.

 

[dgreen]

Anyone have any recommendations for a preferred or avoid online will company? We had a lawyer put together our last will because we had a somewhat complex situation but that no longer exists and our new situation is very simple so I'd prefer to just DYI rather than go through the pageantry of a lawyer prepared will. Or perhaps even a lawyer recommendation who is willing to handle it for us remotely that is well versed in FL wills. I just don't want to go the typical lawyer office visit, follow up, etc. Price isn't the driving factor.

Whole lotta lawyers piping up how vital it is to go to a lawyer.
If there is nothing out of the ordinary, I personally see no reason to using an online resource.
eta I used legalzoom about 10 years ago to draft one for me and my wife. I need to update it however as I'm still alive. Will use an online source again. Hoping for more alive time.

we see the fallout when this stuff doesn't work.

Currently working with a family that "DIY'ed" a deed from dad to the child he wanted it to go to. Deed is completely ineffective, and now all four siblings are co-owners who do not get along.

I get that perspective. But I think sometimes people on the inside who see the horrors of certain things have a skewed vision. What I assume you don't see is how many work out just fine. If the ones with huge fallout are a tiny percent of the total, then it's not something I'm worrying about too much. But, I could be wrong about that. I guess it's possible you are also aware of how many work out just fine and there's a shocking percentage that go south. To me, that would be an important piece of information.

 

[Thorn]

Anyone have any recommendations for a preferred or avoid online will company? We had a lawyer put together our last will because we had a somewhat complex situation but that no longer exists and our new situation is very simple so I'd prefer to just DYI rather than go through the pageantry of a lawyer prepared will. Or perhaps even a lawyer recommendation who is willing to handle it for us remotely that is well versed in FL wills. I just don't want to go the typical lawyer office visit, follow up, etc. Price isn't the driving factor.

Whole lotta lawyers piping up how vital it is to go to a lawyer.
If there is nothing out of the ordinary, I personally see no reason to using an online resource.
eta I used legalzoom about 10 years ago to draft one for me and my wife. I need to update it however as I'm still alive. Will use an online source again. Hoping for more alive time.

To be fair, I can see how my question is a like catnip to a lawyer. Not intentional, gents.

I think i've found a middle ground. I can create my docs myself using Legal zoom and they have a package that includes professional lawyer review and consultation if needed. That should cover all bases, no?

Probably? Is the lawyer licensed in your jurisdiction? If they mess it up, is there a malpractice policy that will be available? Or do they make you sign/click some 12-page disclaimer that has a clause buried in it that your only recourse is a refund, not reimbursement for the $15,000 it will cost to fix post-death?

 

[-fish-]

I disagree that you automatically need a lawyer. Depends how complicated the estate is. If you have a relatively simple situation, I'd use Quicken Willmaker. I used it for my own.

To me, the most important thing is to appoint an executor who can navigate the process.

 

[Thorn]

Isn't most of this stuff now defined through trusts and if will exist, they just dump everything into the trust?

Not sure what "defined through trusts" means, but a trust does not spring up out of nowhere. You have to create it in advance. It may obviate the need for a will.

Sure, a trust has to be created. I just thought the days of waiting in suspense for the lawyer to read the will and learn who got what was over. My grandparents went the trust route. My dad is going the trust route. Feels like if you own a house, these sorts of things should be trust focused over will focused. But that's definitely a FEEL for me, certainly not a lawyer.

Depends on a lot of factors. What assets you have; whether your estate is big enough to trigger estate tax; whether probate administration in your state is timely/costly or not; whether your wishes differ from your state's intestacy rules. And on and on. Personally I think trusts are overused if anything, but it's highly case-specific.

If one can take the government out of the equation completely, it seems like a positive. I might be misunderstanding you, but it seems to me that you are saying "if your state rules are pretty simple, then don't worry about it". What if I don't want my kids to have to worry about the rules and how complicated/easy they are? Real estate tax benefits were a primary driver for my grandparents. They bought a house for $15K in 1973. Now the house would sell for almost $500K. That step up provision is a major benefit for my dad.

Problem is you can't take the government out. They're already in. WAY in. And it's not that some state's rules are simpler, it's that they differ, a lot. It might be that as a, say, Massachusetts resident, you really ought to have will and a trust, but in Vermont you'd be fine with just a will, in NY with a trust but no will needed, and in North Dakota you'd get the same result without a will or trust at all.

 

[Thorn]

Anyone have any recommendations for a preferred or avoid online will company? We had a lawyer put together our last will because we had a somewhat complex situation but that no longer exists and our new situation is very simple so I'd prefer to just DYI rather than go through the pageantry of a lawyer prepared will. Or perhaps even a lawyer recommendation who is willing to handle it for us remotely that is well versed in FL wills. I just don't want to go the typical lawyer office visit, follow up, etc. Price isn't the driving factor.

Whole lotta lawyers piping up how vital it is to go to a lawyer.
If there is nothing out of the ordinary, I personally see no reason to using an online resource.
eta I used legalzoom about 10 years ago to draft one for me and my wife. I need to update it however as I'm still alive. Will use an online source again. Hoping for more alive time.

we see the fallout when this stuff doesn't work.

Currently working with a family that "DIY'ed" a deed from dad to the child he wanted it to go to. Deed is completely ineffective, and now all four siblings are co-owners who do not get along.

I get that perspective. But I think sometimes people on the inside who see the horrors of certain things have a skewed vision. What I assume you don't see is how many work out just fine. If the ones with huge fallout are a tiny percent of the total, then it's not something I'm worrying about too much. But, I could be wrong about that. I guess it's possible you are also aware of how many work out just fine and there's a shocking percentage that go south. To me, that would be an important piece of information.

I'm definitely biased.

To me it's a lot like choosing insurance. IMO you should insure against great risks. You insure your home, you get liability insurance for your car in case you seriously hurt someone in an accident. You do this largely because facing those losses without insurance would be disastrous. You decline to insure your vacation, or your new laptop, because those losses you can bear. If the worst-case scenario doesn't seem that bad, then go ahead with legal zoom.

 

[Ridgeback]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

 

[Instinctive]

My wife and I made a holographic will. Mostly because we're fine with the Texas intestate rules if it doesn't hold up. If we get some actual money and/or things get more complex with where we want and can send kids / what they get / etc...we probably need to hire a T&E lawyer and have it done fully.

Of course, we'd be dead, so who really cares.

 

[BassNBrew]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

And it's not that some state's rules are simpler, it's that they differ, a lot.

Yep. The step up cost of the house value may not matter at all. State requirements are as different as a dachshund and an elephant.

I want to know how much pagentry you are talking about here? Did trumpets sound when you walked in, Ron? We went, answered questions, reviewed stuff, enjoyed the wonders of Covid, and signed the forms. It was easy peasy with a proper estate attorney.

(And for Mr Cynical, I am not a lawyer.)

 

[QUEZILLA]

This seems like one of the lawyer task that will be easily replaced by AI.

 

[Max Power]

This seems like one of the lawyer task that will be easily replaced by AI.

Possibly. When I got my will done, the firm I used sent their most junior associate. She was nice, but we could tell she didn't have a lot of experience. Leads me to believe that will creation is one of the lowest rungs of a law practice.

 

[Ron Swanson]

And it's not that some state's rules are simpler, it's that they differ, a lot.

Yep. The step up cost of the house value may not matter at all. State requirements are as different as a dachshund and an elephant.

I want to know how much pagentry you are talking about here? Did trumpets sound when you walked in, Ron? We went, answered questions, reviewed stuff, enjoyed the wonders of Covid, and signed the forms. It was easy peasy with a proper estate attorney.

(And for Mr Cynical, I am not a lawyer.)

Pageantry was probably the wrong word. Forced archaic process? Formality? I don't know what to call it. I just never enjoy lawyer visits. I deal with plenty of them in my work life and post Covid pretty well have most of those interactions relegated to video conference or phone. The local lawyers here seem to only function with a "come on in and we'll talk" kind of mode and then when we do it's sitting in a lobby, having pointless conversation, then we finally get to business and then they take forever to just get the thing we're there for done. Maybe what I really need is a "virtual visit only" lawyer. Do those exist?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

And it's not that some state's rules are simpler, it's that they differ, a lot.

Yep. The step up cost of the house value may not matter at all. State requirements are as different as a dachshund and an elephant.

I want to know how much pagentry you are talking about here? Did trumpets sound when you walked in, Ron? We went, answered questions, reviewed stuff, enjoyed the wonders of Covid, and signed the forms. It was easy peasy with a proper estate attorney.

(And for Mr Cynical, I am not a lawyer.)

Pageantry was probably the wrong word. Forced archaic process? Formality? I don't know what to call it. I just never enjoy lawyer visits. I deal with plenty of them in my work life and post Covid pretty well have most of those interactions relegated to video conference or phone. The local lawyers here seem to only function with a "come on in and we'll talk" kind of mode and then when we do it's sitting in a lobby, having pointless conversation, then we finally get to business and then they take forever to just get the thing we're there for done. Maybe what I really need is a "virtual visit only" lawyer. Do those exist?

I didn't have your experience with my local lawyer (who I had zero experience with before) at all. They had told me ahead of time what to bring with me. I got there early and I waited maybe 5 minutes before they ushered me back to meet with the attorney. They had everything formal already typed up and we spent maybe 10 minutes filling in blanks or correcting things. It may have taken more time for me to sign everything than I spent discussing. I was in and out in under 30 minutes.

I dunno..... I live in a small town, this attorney was well-established in the community (I was new), and it was painless for me (& I am not a patient person). This was also 15 years ago, so maybe things have changed since then

 

[Sparky Polastri]

And it's not that some state's rules are simpler, it's that they differ, a lot.

Yep. The step up cost of the house value may not matter at all. State requirements are as different as a dachshund and an elephant.

I want to know how much pagentry you are talking about here? Did trumpets sound when you walked in, Ron? We went, answered questions, reviewed stuff, enjoyed the wonders of Covid, and signed the forms. It was easy peasy with a proper estate attorney.

(And for Mr Cynical, I am not a lawyer.)

The step up benefit I was referring to was the one to avoid federal capital gains. Doesn't matter what state you're in.

 

[beer 30]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

 

[Sparky Polastri]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

You can pick and choose what goes into the trust. If, for some reason, you don't want your house in the trust, you don't put it in the trust. You don't get benefit of the tax loopholes, but it doesn't have to be part of the trust.

 

[beer 30]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

You can pick and choose what goes into the trust. If, for some reason, you don't want your house in the trust, you don't put it in the trust. You don't get benefit of the tax loopholes, but it doesn't have to be part of the trust.

Yea that's the beauty of the trust, you can add to, delete from as you want, just have to change title to property when you do. My point is just making a trust doesn't automatically mean your estate is included. You have to do some leg work to fund the trust with estate assets. That's the mistake my brother made. He had the trust drawn up but never moved any assets into it so essentially just had a nice legal piece of paper that didn't do squat.

 

[Instinctive]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

You can pick and choose what goes into the trust. If, for some reason, you don't want your house in the trust, you don't put it in the trust. You don't get benefit of the tax loopholes, but it doesn't have to be part of the trust.

Yea that's the beauty of the trust, you can add to, delete from as you want, just have to change title to property when you do. My point is just making a trust doesn't automatically mean your estate is included. You have to do some leg work to fund the trust with estate assets. That's the mistake my brother made. He had the trust drawn up but never moved any assets into it so essentially just had a nice legal piece of paper that didn't do squat.

Sounds like he was missing the pour over element of the will and trust setup.

 

[BassNBrew]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

You can pick and choose what goes into the trust. If, for some reason, you don't want your house in the trust, you don't put it in the trust. You don't get benefit of the tax loopholes, but it doesn't have to be part of the trust.

Yea that's the beauty of the trust, you can add to, delete from as you want, just have to change title to property when you do. My point is just making a trust doesn't automatically mean your estate is included. You have to do some leg work to fund the trust with estate assets. That's the mistake my brother made. He had the trust drawn up but never moved any assets into it so essentially just had a nice legal piece of paper that didn't do squat.

This is all good to know. With mortgages on most of my property that I never intend to pay early at 2.5-3.25% a trust isn't an option for me.

 

[Thorn]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

Common misconception. An existing lien/mortgage does not prevent the transfer of real estate. The mortgage probably has a clause that allows the lender to call the loan in default because of the transfer, but as a practical matter, they almost never do for a conveyance from individuals into a trust those same individuals control.

 

[beer 30]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

You can pick and choose what goes into the trust. If, for some reason, you don't want your house in the trust, you don't put it in the trust. You don't get benefit of the tax loopholes, but it doesn't have to be part of the trust.

Yea that's the beauty of the trust, you can add to, delete from as you want, just have to change title to property when you do. My point is just making a trust doesn't automatically mean your estate is included. You have to do some leg work to fund the trust with estate assets. That's the mistake my brother made. He had the trust drawn up but never moved any assets into it so essentially just had a nice legal piece of paper that didn't do squat.

Sounds like he was missing the pour over element of the will and trust setup.

Loved him to death but that mfer missed A LOT. Shocked we got it all wrapped up as soon as we did.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

You can pick and choose what goes into the trust. If, for some reason, you don't want your house in the trust, you don't put it in the trust. You don't get benefit of the tax loopholes, but it doesn't have to be part of the trust.

Yea that's the beauty of the trust, you can add to, delete from as you want, just have to change title to property when you do. My point is just making a trust doesn't automatically mean your estate is included. You have to do some leg work to fund the trust with estate assets. That's the mistake my brother made. He had the trust drawn up but never moved any assets into it so essentially just had a nice legal piece of paper that didn't do squat.

WOW. He did it on his own or with a lawyer? That's borderline malpractice if a lawyer was helping him. The guy helping my grandmother right now has a very detailed outline for what's required in NC to make all things go. Same with my dad in FL.

 

[BassNBrew]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

Common misconception. An existing lien/mortgage does not prevent the transfer of real estate. The mortgage probably has a clause that allows the lender to call the loan in default because of the transfer, but as a practical matter, they almost never do for a conveyance from individuals into a trust those same individuals control.

You are correct. As a real estate professional and business owner I can't risk anything that could be considered deceitful relative to mortgage financing. Even if it's only 0.01%.

 

[beer 30]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

You can pick and choose what goes into the trust. If, for some reason, you don't want your house in the trust, you don't put it in the trust. You don't get benefit of the tax loopholes, but it doesn't have to be part of the trust.

Yea that's the beauty of the trust, you can add to, delete from as you want, just have to change title to property when you do. My point is just making a trust doesn't automatically mean your estate is included. You have to do some leg work to fund the trust with estate assets. That's the mistake my brother made. He had the trust drawn up but never moved any assets into it so essentially just had a nice legal piece of paper that didn't do squat.

WOW. He did it on his own or with a lawyer? That's borderline malpractice if a lawyer was helping him. The guy helping my grandmother right now has a very detailed outline for what's required in NC to make all things go. Same with my dad in FL.

He had a lawyer draw it up but according to the guy who helped me out and was a good friend of my brothers, the lawyer who drew it up was notorious for drawing up an ambiguous trust and then not following up with the client to make sure they understood their responsibilities when it came to funding the trust. Reading the docs, he specifically mentions the house with address and the "intent of the trust" to place said property in the said trust. If you are a laymen and read it, it would seem that it was taken care of. Luckily that was the only asset we really had any legal questions with and it wasn't much money. If it had been hundreds of thousands of dollars it might have gone differently but the judge understood the intent of the trust and granted me executor powers based on that. It also helped that it wasn't contested, that would have thrown a wrench in the works as well.

 

[Judge Smails]

Good question, one I've been wondering about myself for a while. We have a half assed will but I'm not confident it would hold up in court. Luckily there are only two children, they like each other and we don't really have a pot to piss in so there won't be a lot to contend. We just signed up with a new bank and one of the things they offer is setting up a simple will and/or trust for no charge.

My on wills & trusts from an experience I had closing my brothers estate a few years ago in CA during COVID. Brother thought he had set everything up appropriately with a will and named executor and a trust he had set up. The problem we ran into was he never transferred anything into the trust so the trust didn't really own anything. I was the executor of the trust, got a hold of his lawyer friend who knew the guy who wrote the trust and after about 6 months of back & forth with California, had the judge determine that his intent was to fund the trust so he let me sell the house and his assets. It was a bit of a nightmare but ultimately worked out.

Yeah. That’s a problem. Have to get assets into the trust

 

[Judge Smails]

This seems like one of the lawyer task that will be easily replaced by AI.

I don’t doubt it. I used ChatGPT to negotiate my own severance. They settled before respective counsel got involved. Except there was no counsel on my side. But with the language changes and #’s I threw out they thought I had a high powered employment law attorney. Amazing technology

 

[Zow]

This seems like one of the lawyer task that will be easily replaced by AI.

I don’t doubt it. I used ChatGPT to negotiate my own severance. They settled before respective counsel got involved. Except there was no counsel on my side. But with the language changes and #’s I threw out they thought I had a high powered employment law attorney. Amazing technology

Except when it makes up law.

(ChatGPT will likely replace a lot of lawyer tasks in ~10 years, but right now it's incredibly dangerous to use and I highly recommend anybody using it to thoroughly review anything it spits out for legal accuracy)

 

[Sparky Polastri]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

You can pick and choose what goes into the trust. If, for some reason, you don't want your house in the trust, you don't put it in the trust. You don't get benefit of the tax loopholes, but it doesn't have to be part of the trust.

Yea that's the beauty of the trust, you can add to, delete from as you want, just have to change title to property when you do. My point is just making a trust doesn't automatically mean your estate is included. You have to do some leg work to fund the trust with estate assets. That's the mistake my brother made. He had the trust drawn up but never moved any assets into it so essentially just had a nice legal piece of paper that didn't do squat.

WOW. He did it on his own or with a lawyer? That's borderline malpractice if a lawyer was helping him. The guy helping my grandmother right now has a very detailed outline for what's required in NC to make all things go. Same with my dad in FL.

He had a lawyer draw it up but according to the guy who helped me out and was a good friend of my brothers, the lawyer who drew it up was notorious for drawing up an ambiguous trust and then not following up with the client to make sure they understood their responsibilities when it came to funding the trust. Reading the docs, he specifically mentions the house with address and the "intent of the trust" to place said property in the said trust. If you are a laymen and read it, it would seem that it was taken care of. Luckily that was the only asset we really had any legal questions with and it wasn't much money. If it had been hundreds of thousands of dollars it might have gone differently but the judge understood the intent of the trust and granted me executor powers based on that. It also helped that it wasn't contested, that would have thrown a wrench in the works as well.

ugh.that sucks. Glad it all worked out!

 

[Ron Swanson]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

Common misconception. An existing lien/mortgage does not prevent the transfer of real estate. The mortgage probably has a clause that allows the lender to call the loan in default because of the transfer, but as a practical matter, they almost never do for a conveyance from individuals into a trust those same individuals control.

This is true but now with higher mortgage rates, anyone locked in at a low rate should be very careful to not give a mortgage holder the ability to call a low interest rate mortgage.

 

[beer 30]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

In the example I used above, I was told everything had to be put into the name of the trust that you wanted to shield by using the trust. House, cars, bank accounts, everything. Don't know how all that works but I suspect it's similar to selling said property or transferring it, the name on the title/deed is the Trust instead Joe Smith

You can pick and choose what goes into the trust. If, for some reason, you don't want your house in the trust, you don't put it in the trust. You don't get benefit of the tax loopholes, but it doesn't have to be part of the trust.

Yea that's the beauty of the trust, you can add to, delete from as you want, just have to change title to property when you do. My point is just making a trust doesn't automatically mean your estate is included. You have to do some leg work to fund the trust with estate assets. That's the mistake my brother made. He had the trust drawn up but never moved any assets into it so essentially just had a nice legal piece of paper that didn't do squat.

WOW. He did it on his own or with a lawyer? That's borderline malpractice if a lawyer was helping him. The guy helping my grandmother right now has a very detailed outline for what's required in NC to make all things go. Same with my dad in FL.

He had a lawyer draw it up but according to the guy who helped me out and was a good friend of my brothers, the lawyer who drew it up was notorious for drawing up an ambiguous trust and then not following up with the client to make sure they understood their responsibilities when it came to funding the trust. Reading the docs, he specifically mentions the house with address and the "intent of the trust" to place said property in the said trust. If you are a laymen and read it, it would seem that it was taken care of. Luckily that was the only asset we really had any legal questions with and it wasn't much money. If it had been hundreds of thousands of dollars it might have gone differently but the judge understood the intent of the trust and granted me executor powers based on that. It also helped that it wasn't contested, that would have thrown a wrench in the works as well.

ugh.that sucks. Glad it all worked out!

It was actually a great learning experience. Forgot to mention throughout this whole thing, he had my name wrong in the trust so I had to prove I was me every time I wanted to do something with birth certificates, ID's and a notarized statement from me declaring I was, in fact, me. Good times

 

[beer 30]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

Common misconception. An existing lien/mortgage does not prevent the transfer of real estate. The mortgage probably has a clause that allows the lender to call the loan in default because of the transfer, but as a practical matter, they almost never do for a conveyance from individuals into a trust those same individuals control.

This is true but now with higher mortgage rates, anyone locked in at a low rate should be very careful to not give a mortgage holder the ability to call a low interest rate mortgage.

This is a great point. I was thinking the other day, and I have zero clue so forgive the ignorance, but how long before people wanting to sell who enjoy a 2-3% interest rate start advertising that to entice a sale and figure out a way to transfer that to a buyer? I don't think there is any way to do it other than the buyer taking over payments on the loan but I'm guessing there's some enterprising eager beaver trying to figure out how to do it.

 

[Ron Swanson]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

Common misconception. An existing lien/mortgage does not prevent the transfer of real estate. The mortgage probably has a clause that allows the lender to call the loan in default because of the transfer, but as a practical matter, they almost never do for a conveyance from individuals into a trust those same individuals control.

This is true but now with higher mortgage rates, anyone locked in at a low rate should be very careful to not give a mortgage holder the ability to call a low interest rate mortgage.

This is a great point. I was thinking the other day, and I have zero clue so forgive the ignorance, but how long before people wanting to sell who enjoy a 2-3% interest rate start advertising that to entice a sale and figure out a way to transfer that to a buyer? I don't think there is any way to do it other than the buyer taking over payments on the loan but I'm guessing there's some enterprising eager beaver trying to figure out how to do it.

I don't think any mortgage lender would let a buyer take over payments. Especially in a low interest scenario. No upside and significant downside. There are probably a few sellers casually exploiting this scenario in rent to own schemes but probably more to their own benefit than the "buyer".

 

[Runkle]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

Common misconception. An existing lien/mortgage does not prevent the transfer of real estate. The mortgage probably has a clause that allows the lender to call the loan in default because of the transfer, but as a practical matter, they almost never do for a conveyance from individuals into a trust those same individuals control.

This is true but now with higher mortgage rates, anyone locked in at a low rate should be very careful to not give a mortgage holder the ability to call a low interest rate mortgage.

Does a "pour over will" in which the will decrees any assets outside a trust should be put into a trust upon death avoid the issue?

 

[Thorn]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

Common misconception. An existing lien/mortgage does not prevent the transfer of real estate. The mortgage probably has a clause that allows the lender to call the loan in default because of the transfer, but as a practical matter, they almost never do for a conveyance from individuals into a trust those same individuals control.

This is true but now with higher mortgage rates, anyone locked in at a low rate should be very careful to not give a mortgage holder the ability to call a low interest rate mortgage.

Eh, even on the off chance a lender did say it was a default, you'd have a cure period, usually 30 days, to "cure" the default by deeding it back out of the trust.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

Common misconception. An existing lien/mortgage does not prevent the transfer of real estate. The mortgage probably has a clause that allows the lender to call the loan in default because of the transfer, but as a practical matter, they almost never do for a conveyance from individuals into a trust those same individuals control.

This is true but now with higher mortgage rates, anyone locked in at a low rate should be very careful to not give a mortgage holder the ability to call a low interest rate mortgage.

This is a great point. I was thinking the other day, and I have zero clue so forgive the ignorance, but how long before people wanting to sell who enjoy a 2-3% interest rate start advertising that to entice a sale and figure out a way to transfer that to a buyer? I don't think there is any way to do it other than the buyer taking over payments on the loan but I'm guessing there's some enterprising eager beaver trying to figure out how to do it.

I don't think any mortgage lender would let a buyer take over payments. Especially in a low interest scenario. No upside and significant downside. There are probably a few sellers casually exploiting this scenario in rent to own schemes but probably more to their own benefit than the "buyer".

It's my understanding that this is established at the mortgage's inception (called assumable mortgages). Hard to find in conventional mortgages. Will find mostly in FHA, USDA, VA loans etc. That said, I don't think if one inherits a house they have to go through a refinance etc. Mortgage lenders have some hoops, but will usually allow you to take over the mortgage "as is". Generally speaking of course.

 

[BeTheMatch]

My partner just spent 4k on a trust, but she now has complete piece of mind regarding all her assets. Expensive, but well worth it IMO. I'll be doing the same soon as all I had was a will that I bought from some template online.

Curious if having a trust means that you need to move the deed of real estate into trust name. If so, then basically a no go unless you own outright.

Common misconception. An existing lien/mortgage does not prevent the transfer of real estate. The mortgage probably has a clause that allows the lender to call the loan in default because of the transfer, but as a practical matter, they almost never do for a conveyance from individuals into a trust those same individuals control.

This is true but now with higher mortgage rates, anyone locked in at a low rate should be very careful to not give a mortgage holder the ability to call a low interest rate mortgage.

This is a great point. I was thinking the other day, and I have zero clue so forgive the ignorance, but how long before people wanting to sell who enjoy a 2-3% interest rate start advertising that to entice a sale and figure out a way to transfer that to a buyer? I don't think there is any way to do it other than the buyer taking over payments on the loan but I'm guessing there's some enterprising eager beaver trying to figure out how to do it.

I don't think any mortgage lender would let a buyer take over payments. Especially in a low interest scenario. No upside and significant downside. There are probably a few sellers casually exploiting this scenario in rent to own schemes but probably more to their own benefit than the "buyer".

It's my understanding that this is established at the mortgage's inception (called assumable mortgages). Hard to find in conventional mortgages. Will find mostly in FHA, USDA, VA loans etc. That said, I don't think if one inherits a house they have to go through a refinance etc. Mortgage lenders have some hoops, but will usually allow you to take over the mortgage "as is". Generally speaking of course.

When we moved back to MN a couple years ago in a high-interest rate environment, we looked into assumable mortgages. Our agent basically said, good luck, no seller is ever going to agree to that.

It wasn't really clear to me why.