Oregon Militia Takeover - Ammon Bundy arrested (3 Viewers)

[Max Power]

2. How is this NOT double jeopardy?

Because the judge ignored the law and imposed an unlawful sentence. The prosecution appealed it from day one.

The initial judge claimed a 5 year term would be “grossly disproportionate” to the crime. 5 years for a fire that got out of control seems excessive.

It appears the courts disagree with you.

The courts aren't perfect

 

[dparker713]

2. How is this NOT double jeopardy?

Because the judge ignored the law and imposed an unlawful sentence. The prosecution appealed it from day one.

The initial judge claimed a 5 year term would be grossly disproportionate to the crime. 5 years for a fire that got out of control seems excessive.

So is 5 years for a few vials of crack

 

[Cliff Clavin]

2. How is this NOT double jeopardy?

Because the judge ignored the law and imposed an unlawful sentence. The prosecution appealed it from day one.

The initial judge claimed a 5 year term would be grossly disproportionate to the crime. 5 years for a fire that got out of control seems excessive.

5 years for Arson to cover up a different crime seems light.

 

[The General]

Who is saying this is supported by either party? The first moron Bundy was a little hero for a while, lot's of pictures of him riding horses with American flags and guns, but I don't think you saw John Boehner out there riding an ATV. Maybe a few Tea Party folks from deep in the woods.

This new batch I'd assume are being ridiculed by all politicians as well.

We'll see if Hannity and some other talking heads jump aboard with these clowns.

 

[The General]

When the whackos on the fring left had their Occupy Wall Street groups all over the country taking over city parks across the country, did the government violently respond or did they wait for months while those idiots stunk up the cities? Seems like the actually closest analogy to this situation then the utterly ridiculous strawmen being put out by a few deranged posters.

Trust me, if the Occupy folks had been armed with a single gun, the government would have responded immediately, snd they did in Oakland anyhow.

Exactly.

 

[The General]

I thought Oregon was just a bunch of microbrew drinking bearded guys and hot cheerleaders.

That's just Portland and select pockets of the I-5 corridor. Everywhere else is pretty rednecky. Maybe not "Alabama level", but "Wyoming level" at least.

Washington similar as well.

Keep Washington out of this, that's Idaho.

 

[The General]

This was Clive Bundy guy that Fox crowd was all pumped about until he dropped his sweet knowledge about "The Negro" right?

You guys make every thread something political. Why?

Isn't this whole occupation political?

In the most broadest interpretation of the term. Do you believe either party supports this?

Democratic or Republican party? No. Other parties? Absolutely.But the original post said nothing about any party.

What does the Fox crowd imply?

Sean Hannity had this guy the Cliven Bundy ####### as the star of his show and honorary guest of honor in his "Great American Panel". That's what was being implied with Fox crowd.

 

[the moops]

When the whackos on the fring left had their Occupy Wall Street groups all over the country taking over city parks across the country, did the government violently respond or did they wait for months while those idiots stunk up the cities? Seems like the actually closest analogy to this situation then the utterly ridiculous strawmen being put out by a few deranged posters.

https://www.google.com/search?q=occupy+wall+street+arrests&safe=off&client=ms-android-oneplus&prmd=niv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwja4cLKiY7KAhVL7yYKHVLoA64Q_AUICCgC

 

[Max Power]

Interesting read here http://www.tsln.com/news/18837869-113/where-theres-smoke

Notes:

- The Bureau of land management is not liable for damages done to private lands for fires started on public land.

- Hammonds are currently paying 400k for fire fighting costs from the fires

- The Hammonds are the last remaining private land owner in a 170,000 acre wilderness. The rest of the land owners were bought out.

- As part of the Hammonds’ plea agreement the BLM obtained the first right of refusal should the family have to sell their private land.

- A neighboring rancher who sold their land said the BLM was relentless in its pursuit of their property.

 

[dparker713]

Interesting read here http://www.tsln.com/news/18837869-113/where-theres-smoke

Notes:

- The Bureau of land management is not liable for damages done to private lands for fires started on public land.

- Hammonds are currently paying 400k for fire fighting costs from the fires

- The Hammonds are the last remaining private land owner in a 170,000 acre wilderness. The rest of the land owners were bought out.

- As part of the Hammonds plea agreement the BLM obtained the first right of refusal should the family have to sell their private land.

- A neighboring rancher who sold their land said the BLM was relentless in its pursuit of their property.

All land rights are granted by the sovereign.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

“The facility (Malheur National Wildlife Refuge) has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds,” Ammon Bundy told the Oregonian, adding that he would not rule out violence. “We're planning on staying here for years, absolutely. This is not a decision we've made at the last minute.”

Who knew Wildlife Refuges were such serious business.

Where will the wildlife seeking refuge go?

Do they, or did they offer sanctuary to wildlife from other countries and if so how was it vetted?

Wildlife lives matter.

 

[AAABatteries]

I don't think we should allow any white person from Oregon to travel to the rest of the country until our government can figure out what the hell is going on.

What about albinos?

 

[Widbil83]

When the whackos on the fring left had their Occupy Wall Street groups all over the country taking over city parks across the country, did the government violently respond or did they wait for months while those idiots stunk up the cities? Seems like the actually closest analogy to this situation then the utterly ridiculous strawmen being put out by a few deranged posters.

Trust me, if the Occupy folks had been armed with a single gun, the government would have responded immediately, snd they did in Oakland anyhow.

Single gun? The Occupy folks tried to blow up a bridge.http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-01/bridge-bomb-plot/54661638/1

 

[Harry Manback]

No real media coverage that I see. This is terrorism, no?

How would this be terrorism?

 

[[scooter]]

2. How is this NOT double jeopardy?

Because the judge ignored the law and imposed an unlawful sentence. The prosecution appealed it from day one.

The initial judge claimed a 5 year term would be “grossly disproportionate” to the crime.

Judicial Activism can go both ways.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

When the whackos on the fring left had their Occupy Wall Street groups all over the country taking over city parks across the country, did the government violently respond or did they wait for months while those idiots stunk up the cities? Seems like the actually closest analogy to this situation then the utterly ridiculous strawmen being put out by a few deranged posters.

Trust me, if the Occupy folks had been armed with a single gun, the government would have responded immediately, snd they did in Oakland anyhow.

Single gun? The Occupy folks tried to blow up a bridge.http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-01/bridge-bomb-plot/54661638/1

These guys said that the Occupy movement hadn't gone far enough.

So these anarchist decided to go farther... not the occupy guys.

sought to use the cover of the Occupy campaign in Cleveland to strike

Its like you guys don't read. Or something.

 

[Max Power]

2. How is this NOT double jeopardy?

Because the judge ignored the law and imposed an unlawful sentence. The prosecution appealed it from day one.

The initial judge claimed a 5 year term would be “grossly disproportionate” to the crime.

Judicial Activism can go both ways.

I guess my holdup is that if a private citizen starts a fire on his property that spreads to public land, it is arson and he is liable for damages.

The govt starts a fire on govt land that spreads to private land causing damages, it is not criminal nor are they liable for damages.

Considering all this, 5 years is too much.

 

[[scooter]]

2. How is this NOT double jeopardy?

Because the judge ignored the law and imposed an unlawful sentence. The prosecution appealed it from day one.

The initial judge claimed a 5 year term would be “grossly disproportionate” to the crime.

Judicial Activism can go both ways.

I guess my holdup is that if a private citizen starts a fire on his property that spreads to public land, it is arson and he is liable for damages.

The govt starts a fire on govt land that spreads to private land causing damages, it is not criminal nor are they liable for damages.

If a private citizen shoots someone because they felt threatened...

 

[Foosball God]

2. How is this NOT double jeopardy?

Because the judge ignored the law and imposed an unlawful sentence. The prosecution appealed it from day one.

The initial judge claimed a 5 year term would be “grossly disproportionate” to the crime.

Judicial Activism can go both ways.

I guess my holdup is that if a private citizen starts a fire on his property that spreads to public land, it is arson and he is liable for damages.

The govt starts a fire on govt land that spreads to private land causing damages, it is not criminal nor are they liable for damages.

Considering all this, 5 years is too much.

I think the law is more there so that if some numbnut starts a fire in government controlled land, the government won't be held liable for damages. I don't think the government is starting too many uncontrolled fires.

 

[pollardsvision]

So, I assume the plan is to just wait until they run out of their rations of Busch heavy and nab them up on a beer run?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Clearly the judge gave the Hammonds a second sentence that is proportionate to the new bid the state got for the Uranium and natural gas found on their ranch.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

So, I assume the plan is to just wait until they run out of their rations of Busch heavy and nab them up on a beer run?

I'm guessing they brought their stills with them.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

So, I assume the plan is to just wait until they run out of their rations of Busch heavy and nab them up on a beer run?

I am waiting for Obama to invite them to the White House....

 

[jon_mx]

So, I assume the plan is to just wait until they run out of their rations of Busch heavy and nab them up on a beer run?

I am waiting for Obama to invite them to the White House....

Beer summit 2!

 

[Ladsud]

So, I assume the plan is to just wait until they run out of their rations of Busch heavy and nab them up on a beer run?

Trump is already on the way with a semi of natty light kegs!

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Picture of the Hammonds (not a Ralph Lauren ad)

http://image.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width960/img/oregonian/photo/2015/12/30/hammonds-and-cattle-783c779dc5ff6187.jpg

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Picture of the Hammonds (not a Ralph Lauren ad)

http://image.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width960/img/oregonian/photo/2015/12/30/hammonds-and-cattle-783c779dc5ff6187.jpg

Going to need some more pics of the daughter. TIA.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Clearly the judge gave the Hammonds a second sentence that is proportionate to the new bid the state got for the Uranium and natural gas found on their ranch.

This also sounds interesting. Is this actually what happened?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

So, I assume the plan is to just wait until they run out of their rations of Busch heavy and nab them up on a beer run?

Trump is already on the way with a semi of natty light kegs!

Trump may get a lot of votes helping to reduce steak prices...

 

[Fennis]

Picture of the Hammonds (not a Ralph Lauren ad)

http://image.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width960/img/oregonian/photo/2015/12/30/hammonds-and-cattle-783c779dc5ff6187.jpg

Can you age them 5 years for me?

 

[dparker713]

2. How is this NOT double jeopardy?

Because the judge ignored the law and imposed an unlawful sentence. The prosecution appealed it from day one.

The initial judge claimed a 5 year term would be grossly disproportionate to the crime.

Judicial Activism can go both ways.

I guess my holdup is that if a private citizen starts a fire on his property that spreads to public land, it is arson and he is liable for damages.

The govt starts a fire on govt land that spreads to private land causing damages, it is not criminal nor are they liable for damages.

Considering all this, 5 years is too much.

Ultimately, the government has the say on how all land is used in the country.

 

[dparker713]

2. How is this NOT double jeopardy?

Because the judge ignored the law and imposed an unlawful sentence. The prosecution appealed it from day one.

The initial judge claimed a 5 year term would be grossly disproportionate to the crime.

Judicial Activism can go both ways.

I guess my holdup is that if a private citizen starts a fire on his property that spreads to public land, it is arson and he is liable for damages.

The govt starts a fire on govt land that spreads to private land causing damages, it is not criminal nor are they liable for damages.

Considering all this, 5 years is too much.

I think the law is more there so that if some numbnut starts a fire in government controlled land, the government won't be held liable for damages. I don't think the government is starting too many uncontrolled fires.

The government is only liable when it chooses to be liable.

 

[jon_mx]

Picture of the Hammonds (not a Ralph Lauren ad)

http://image.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width960/img/oregonian/photo/2015/12/30/hammonds-and-cattle-783c779dc5ff6187.jpg

Going to need some more pics of the daughter. TIA.

Preferably in yoga pants.

 

[Fennis]

As I read a bit of what happened its very clear to me the Hammonds are getting ####ed by the feds.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Let 'em sit there until the Chik-Fil-A gifts cards mama gave them for Christmas are ready to expire. Then they'll come scurrying out.

 

[Fennis]

Let 'em sit there until the Chik-Fil-A gifts cards mama gave them for Christmas are ready to expire. Then they'll come scurrying out.

I'd offer hem a reality show that follows Duck Dynasty and arrest them when they show up on set.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

As I read a bit of what happened its very clear to me the Hammonds are getting ####ed by the feds.

Originally Dwight Hammond was sentenced to three months and Steve to one year, which they have already served, but new use of terrorism law has mandatory sentence of at least 5 years.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

As I read a bit of what happened its very clear to me the Hammonds are getting ####ed by the feds.

Because of the original jail sentences for burning 127 acres or because of the re-sentencing? I would like find more in depth coverage on this situation from a reliable source.

 

[The General]

As I read a bit of what happened its very clear to me the Hammonds are getting ####ed by the feds.

What I read was the Hammonds set fires intentionally. There is a minimum sentence for doing this that a judge ignored just before retiring. A second judge determined that they should serve the minimum.

In the same article the Hammonds were saying through a lawyer that they don't want these militia dudes there.

 

[[scooter]]

Clearly the judge gave the Hammonds a second sentence that is proportionate to the new bid the state got for the Uranium and natural gas found on their ranch.

This also sounds interesting. Is this actually what happened?

The judge must follow the law, which requires a mandatory minimum sentence. The "second sentence" was only what the "original" sentence should have been, if the judge had not decided to ignore the law in the first place.

I agree that mandatory minimums are a terrible idea, but it's the law of the land and the Supreme Court has given its blessing here.

Oh, and there's no uranium.

 

[jon_mx]

Seems like a ton of misinformation and spin out there. What else is new. Now let's imagine they were Amish.

 

[The General]

Here is the Department of Justice - US Attorney's Office Oregon take.

 

[Mario Kart]

Freaking liberal media can't cover an act of terrorism. We need more conservative media outlets in this country. Oh, wait...

 

[[scooter]]

As I read a bit of what happened its very clear to me the Hammonds are getting ####ed by the feds.

Originally Dwight Hammond was sentenced to three months and Steve to one year, which they have already served, but new use of terrorism law has mandatory sentence of at least 5 years.

The 5-year sentence was part of the original trial. This is not "new use" except in the sense that the original judge refused to "use" the sentence that he was required to use, by law.

Let's be clear here: there was no second trial using a "terrorism law". They were tried and convicted under a criminal statute that required a 5-year sentence. Simple as that.

 

[The General]

Seems like a ton of misinformation and spin out there. What else is new. Now let's imagine they were Amish.

After reading a bit it doesn't seem overly complicated. Spin, well sure.

 

[Sabertooth]

Idiots

 

[Fennis]

As I read a bit of what happened its very clear to me the Hammon are getting ####ed by the feds.

Because of the original jail sentences for burning 127 acres or because of the re-sentencing? I would like find more in depth coverage on this situation from a reliable source.

It appears to me that the Federal government is being very aggressive with them due to the government wanting their land. For example, they are no longer allowing grazing due to the arson conviction.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Picture of the Hammonds (not a Ralph Lauren ad)

http://image.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width960/img/oregonian/photo/2015/12/30/hammonds-and-cattle-783c779dc5ff6187.jpg

Going to need some more pics of the daughter. TIA.

easy offdee 9: more unconstitutionally attractive, hottest girl at the militia standoff, seizure of federal lands, etc.

 

[Fennis]

As I read a bit of what happened its very clear to me the Hammonds are getting ####ed by the feds.

What I read was the Hammonds set fires intentionally. There is a minimum sentence for doing this that a judge ignored just before retiring. A second judge determined that they should serve the minimum.

In the same article the Hammonds were saying through a lawyer that they don't want these militia dudes there.

The Hammonds say they will be turning themselves in on Jan. 4th as required by the court.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Cabin In The Woods... I think I know what will happen after sun down