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Orton outscores Matt Schaub in Week 2 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LHUCKS
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Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
People are missing the boat on the really major uselessness angle of this post.
It's that without projections, the comparison is 100% relative. The only thing success or failure in this prognostication means is where Orton finishes the week relative to Matt Schaub.
This is useless to people who own Orton as a member of a committee, because since it allows for the possibility that Schaub will crap the bed entirely, it says nothing about the value of Orton this week relative to other likely members of a QB committee.
This is useless to people who own Orton AND Schaub, in the first place because there aren't very many of them to begin with, and in the second place, because whether you believe the OP or not, nobody is benching Matt Schaub for Kyle Orton this early in the season.
This is useless to people hoping to find a little bit of insight or discussion about what kinds of production are likely from both DEN and HOU offenses, since no attempt is made to quantify.
The only person such a post is even remotely useful to is the OP, and even then, only so he can yell, "I found a nut! I found a nut!"
Something like the MOP or Otis posts have some spine, and some substance. Almost doesn't matter if they turn out well or not, since they actually offer something measurable. This is just empty, pointless, and self-serving. Far better suited to one of the other forums.
It's that without projections, the comparison is 100% relative. The only thing success or failure in this prognostication means is where Orton finishes the week relative to Matt Schaub.
This is useless to people who own Orton as a member of a committee, because since it allows for the possibility that Schaub will crap the bed entirely, it says nothing about the value of Orton this week relative to other likely members of a QB committee.
This is useless to people who own Orton AND Schaub, in the first place because there aren't very many of them to begin with, and in the second place, because whether you believe the OP or not, nobody is benching Matt Schaub for Kyle Orton this early in the season.
This is useless to people hoping to find a little bit of insight or discussion about what kinds of production are likely from both DEN and HOU offenses, since no attempt is made to quantify.
The only person such a post is even remotely useful to is the OP, and even then, only so he can yell, "I found a nut! I found a nut!"
Something like the MOP or Otis posts have some spine, and some substance. Almost doesn't matter if they turn out well or not, since they actually offer something measurable. This is just empty, pointless, and self-serving. Far better suited to one of the other forums.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
People aren't making fun of your picks. Take another guess.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Because this post reeks of analytical information?
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
I have to admit, I was initially amused. But the critics are right, there is not much "beef" in the original post. Predictions are like opinions, which in turn are like #######s - everyone's got one. You have to back it up for it to have any value.
Now, as to the prediction itself, I tend to agree that Schaub might be a bit over-rated this week. The Skins have an under-rated defense (which I mentioned in MY opinion piece in the preseason where I told people to go out and get them and gave a little reasoning behind the suggestion
).
Now, as to the prediction itself, I tend to agree that Schaub might be a bit over-rated this week. The Skins have an under-rated defense (which I mentioned in MY opinion piece in the preseason where I told people to go out and get them and gave a little reasoning behind the suggestion
).
GregR_2
Footballguy
As others have indicated, the problem is that any useful discussion that happens here is happening in spite of you rather than because of you. You could have approached this thread in two ways:1) You could have posted that you thought Orton would outscore Schaub, and listed the detailed reasons why you think this is so. People could have then discussed those reasons, and the fantasy owners who own Schaub or Orton but not both might have gotten some value out of the thread. People might have drawn some insight from your views and applied them to other quarterbacks.
2) You could just post that Orton will outscore Schaub. Requiring that anyone interested in the topic draw the information out of you by repeatedly asking you to give more information, which you then haven't provided. Either that or ignore you completely and discuss the issue with other people, which is hard to do with you continually posting without adding any actual information.
Of the two which do you think would be more useful to people? You want to know why people react to you poorly, it's because of things like this. The way you go about a thread like this just makes you come off like an insecure person who needs to hear other people talking about him to feel good... who set up a thread so that in order to get at the heart of what the thread is supposedly about everyone has to shower you with attention and draw it out of you.
This thread would have been more useful if you'd just posted, "Will Orton outscore Schaub?" At least then people would be discussing the topic instead of dealing with your being all mysterious about your reasoning.
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LHUCKS
Footballguy
What happens if my bold predictions hit week after week after week...then what.I think you guys are missing the big picture...obviously I have projected Orton higher than Schaub this week, but my reasoning is less important than the discussion I had planned to initiate. Some have chosen to join the discussion, some have wasted messageboard space and brought in a whole lot of negativity because there is a single thread in the shark pool that they don't like...apparently they haven't seen the 25 crap threads that currently exist on the front page of the shark pool at this very moment.Either way, when I continually pick players to outperform plaeyrs ranked significantly higher than them, there is something probably to it, unless you have zero sense of odds and probability. Yes I have a process, when I choose to share that is up to me...until then, go with Orton this week.
GregR_2
Footballguy
Describe this "discussion I had planned to initiate"? I haven't seen anything from you in this thread yet other than a prediction and then talking about your prediction without any justification of why you think it's a good prediction.Is there a reason you can't initiate discussion in your first post instead of having people still waiting 57 posts later? Because this looks like you're still just fishing for people to shower you with attention.What happens if my bold predictions hit week after week after week...then what.I think you guys are missing the big picture...obviously I have projected Orton higher than Schaub this week, but my reasoning is less important than the discussion I had planned to initiate. Some have chosen to join the discussion, some have wasted messageboard space and brought in a whole lot of negativity because there is a single thread in the shark pool that they don't like...apparently they haven't seen the 25 crap threads that currently exist on the front page of the shark pool at this very moment.Either way, when I continually pick players to outperform plaeyrs ranked significantly higher than them, there is something probably to it, unless you have zero sense of odds and probability. Yes I have a process, when I choose to share that is up to me...until then, go with Orton this week.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Okay, I could see where this is coming from so I'll address it.Basically I want others to state their opinions first because often times if you just state your opinion, no real discussion comes of it...but as others state their reasoning more people get involved...not sure why that is, it's just a shark pool fact. Slightly different way of going about things, which IMHO is more constructive and insightful in the long run.Apologies if this thread isn't constructed the way some of you had hoped...I would ask you to kindly just ignore this thread if it really bothers you that much. There is a Ben Jarvus Green Ellis thread just waiting for you to participate in.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Step1: Make Bold PredictionStep2: People agree/refuteStep3: LHUCKS explains reasoning via conversation with those participating in the threadDifferent that several of you want it...ok? My thread, so I get to choose its construction...and the construction is based on what I think will generate the best conversation. If you don't agree, okay, we agree to disagree.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Seriously dude, it's obvious you're just fishing for attention.If it was only about rankings and FF then you should just say "I really like Orton this week, I think he'll put up Top 10 numbers against Seattle."But you don't stop there. You start rambling about how you're jealous of people with college degrees who make $40k a year. THAT's hilarious.
GregR_2
Footballguy
And now that you've seen your method isn't producing meaningful discussion, are you going to just continue on in the same way or maybe try sharing your reasoning and see if that works?It seems if you actually cared about creating discussion you'd, you know, discuss it when you see this isn't working.Okay, I could see where this is coming from so I'll address it.Basically I want others to state their opinions first because often times if you just state your opinion, no real discussion comes of it...but as others state their reasoning more people get involved...not sure why that is, it's just a shark pool fact. Slightly different way of going about things, which IMHO is more constructive and insightful in the long run.Apologies if this thread isn't constructed the way some of you had hoped...I would ask you to kindly just ignore this thread if it really bothers you that much. There is a Ben Jarvus Green Ellis thread just waiting for you to participate in.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
That discussion would have about three posts, see just about every other thread in the pool right now...useless, people seeking information, instead of making real calls
Wow, this guy really gets it. You're onto something here. I go to sleep at night wishing I was Greg Rosenthal.
LarryAllen'sJockstrap
Footballguy
I tend to agree with a lot of other posters in this thread... I guess I just don't understand a couple of things:
1. How is this a bold prediction? It already happened last week; Orton outscored Schaub 18.9 to 8.1 using FBG standard scoring. If your goal is to isolate a situation being predicted for this week by the "common" FF community that you disagree with, then that's great, but it doesn't deserve its own thread. All it means is that you don't agree with the group-think ranking in regards to two players. I think the majority of FF players and analysts would rank Schaub over Orton in most weeks due to what they have each done in the past, the weapons each one has and the state of their respective teams. But I doubt anyone would be shocked to see Orton outscore Schaub in any given week. A BOLD prediction would be if you think Orton will outscore Schaub for the remainder of the FF season.
2. I don't see any value in a post like this if you analyze two players in a vacuum without posting projected stats or end of week rankings. Your bold prediction is that Orton will outscore Schaub this week. Does that mean Orton finishes QB1 and Schaub finishes QB32? Or Orton finishes QB24 and Schaub finishes QB25? Or Orton finishes QB3 and Schaub finishes QB4?
I'd love to hear why you think this prediction or thread adds any value to the FF community.
1. How is this a bold prediction? It already happened last week; Orton outscored Schaub 18.9 to 8.1 using FBG standard scoring. If your goal is to isolate a situation being predicted for this week by the "common" FF community that you disagree with, then that's great, but it doesn't deserve its own thread. All it means is that you don't agree with the group-think ranking in regards to two players. I think the majority of FF players and analysts would rank Schaub over Orton in most weeks due to what they have each done in the past, the weapons each one has and the state of their respective teams. But I doubt anyone would be shocked to see Orton outscore Schaub in any given week. A BOLD prediction would be if you think Orton will outscore Schaub for the remainder of the FF season.
2. I don't see any value in a post like this if you analyze two players in a vacuum without posting projected stats or end of week rankings. Your bold prediction is that Orton will outscore Schaub this week. Does that mean Orton finishes QB1 and Schaub finishes QB32? Or Orton finishes QB24 and Schaub finishes QB25? Or Orton finishes QB3 and Schaub finishes QB4?
I'd love to hear why you think this prediction or thread adds any value to the FF community.
Short Corner
Footballguy
You have chosen to ignore all posts from: LHUCKS.
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I can't believe it took me this long.
· View this post
· Un-ignore LHUCKS
I can't believe it took me this long.
killrobotkill
Footballguy
So everyone on this thread is apparently upset that the OP was a fluff piece designed to fish for attention. And their response is to continue to post replies to the thread, keep it at the top of the boards, and give him the attention he allegedly wants.
Look, I'm not *that* personally invested in a fantasy football message board to care too much. I would wager that a significant number of people that post here, as well as on other boards, are doing so at least partially to "fish for attention," Even if they do so with more stats than LHUCKS has done. I guess it would be a problem if 100 guys like LHUCKS posted subjective predictions and clogged up the board. Then I could see the Shark Pool becoming like a Matthew Berry column or something. But really, writing paragraphs and paragraphs about horrible it is that LHUCKS didn't share his methods with us seems like a far bigger waste of time for all involved than LHUCKS' pull-it-out-of-your-butt OP was.
If it really upsets you that LHUCKS isn't as analytical as you are and is only hungry for attention, then the solution is to simply ignore his threads, no?
Having said that, I happen to agree, in a purely subjective manner, that Orton will score more fantasy points than Schaub this week, and will join in his Bold Prediction. I will stake my entire reputation on it.
Look, I'm not *that* personally invested in a fantasy football message board to care too much. I would wager that a significant number of people that post here, as well as on other boards, are doing so at least partially to "fish for attention," Even if they do so with more stats than LHUCKS has done. I guess it would be a problem if 100 guys like LHUCKS posted subjective predictions and clogged up the board. Then I could see the Shark Pool becoming like a Matthew Berry column or something. But really, writing paragraphs and paragraphs about horrible it is that LHUCKS didn't share his methods with us seems like a far bigger waste of time for all involved than LHUCKS' pull-it-out-of-your-butt OP was.
If it really upsets you that LHUCKS isn't as analytical as you are and is only hungry for attention, then the solution is to simply ignore his threads, no?
Having said that, I happen to agree, in a purely subjective manner, that Orton will score more fantasy points than Schaub this week, and will join in his Bold Prediction. I will stake my entire reputation on it.
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zoonation
Footballguy
This is a great post.You see, LHUCKS doesn't get it. Never has. Threads like this actually make him feel good about himself.And, the actual reason he doesn't critique the FBG's pre-season rankings anymore is that he has bombed worse than Matt Leinart the last few attempts. For those who don't know, back in the day (about 5 years ago) LHUCKS made a name for himself around here when he nailed several pre-season player predictions. The following year his pre-season ranking thread was much anticipated. He BOMBED but, predictably, didn't admit to it.So, in an effort to redeem himself he then changed the methodology of his critique so that he didn't have to stick his neck out so far. His predictions/critique contained far less substance and were not dissimilar to the useless rhetoric you see in this thread. The problem was, he still bombed. So, now he has retreated out of the picture under the ruse that he is being otherwise punished by the staff for taking shots at their predictions, which is obviously untrue.LHUCKS is a an iTrainwreck that has been going on for years.
PatytonsGhost
Footballguy
From CBS Sports Analysis, I think this is spot on, so just quoting them and not reinventing the wheel
Schaub
In all fairness to Schaub, the Texans didn't need to throw the ball on Sunday, as they gutted the Colts for 231 yards and three touchdowns on the ground. We all know the Texans can throw the ball, and the Redskins seemed to have some issues stopping the pass during Week 1. The new and improved Texans' ground game should only open up the passing game more by forcing teams to put more defenders in the box. We expect a much better Fantasy effort from the Texans on Sunday. Fantasy owners should still consider Schaub a No. 1 Fantasy QB heading into Week 2 against the Redskins.
( My Take: Schaub will have a big bounce back week at Home, Connecting with AJ all day long) 300 2TD's 1Int
Orton
Orton dealt with an extremely hot day in Jacksonville last week as the heat index reached over 100 degrees. This week he returns to the Mile High City where he is 19-5 as a starter. The Seahawks held San Francisco to 214 yards passing and just six points in their opener
The Broncos had five pass plays of 25-plus yards in the opener at the Jaguars. But QB Kyle Orton insisted he won't force things if the defense takes away that option heading into Week 2 against Seattle. "If the shots are there to be made, we're going to go for it," he said.
(My Take: Jordan Babineaux will limit Orton's longer pass attempts, relegating him to his usual short range passes,
Orton 240 1TD 1INT)
Schaub over Orton
Schaub
In all fairness to Schaub, the Texans didn't need to throw the ball on Sunday, as they gutted the Colts for 231 yards and three touchdowns on the ground. We all know the Texans can throw the ball, and the Redskins seemed to have some issues stopping the pass during Week 1. The new and improved Texans' ground game should only open up the passing game more by forcing teams to put more defenders in the box. We expect a much better Fantasy effort from the Texans on Sunday. Fantasy owners should still consider Schaub a No. 1 Fantasy QB heading into Week 2 against the Redskins.
( My Take: Schaub will have a big bounce back week at Home, Connecting with AJ all day long) 300 2TD's 1Int
Orton
Orton dealt with an extremely hot day in Jacksonville last week as the heat index reached over 100 degrees. This week he returns to the Mile High City where he is 19-5 as a starter. The Seahawks held San Francisco to 214 yards passing and just six points in their opener
The Broncos had five pass plays of 25-plus yards in the opener at the Jaguars. But QB Kyle Orton insisted he won't force things if the defense takes away that option heading into Week 2 against Seattle. "If the shots are there to be made, we're going to go for it," he said.
(My Take: Jordan Babineaux will limit Orton's longer pass attempts, relegating him to his usual short range passes,
Orton 240 1TD 1INT)
Schaub over Orton
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*** Step3 (for those instances when a blind squirrel finds a nut) Come back and gloat endless about how great your mythical prediction process is.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
In all seriousness, I think a better idea would be to put this kind of thing in the "Make one bold prediction thread" instead of making a thread every single week. But considering your unexplainable need for attention, that probably won't happen.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
There's value in ignoring the pointless and counterproductive, because usually that makes it go away.But when it doesn't go away, there's value in criticizing it. Because that draws attention to it. Which is the last thing those who rely on good content appearing on these boards ought to want. The more negative feedback a post receives, the more likely it is to be at the top of the page. The more posts it receives, the more likely it is to appear interesting and thus be opened by a prospective reader.A prospective reader encountering this forum will see it, be instantly disappointed in the pointlessness and grandstanding, and then be put off by all the ill will and negativity.If a post draws a lot of attention for being controversial and spurring discussion, it's great for business. Lively, controversial discussion rules messageboard-dom. If a post draws a lot of attention simply because the poster is a tool, it's forum marketing death. This board is the face of the FBG brand in-season. And every LHUCKS post is a value suck for the FBG business.So everyone on this thread is apparently upset that the OP was a fluff piece designed to fish for attention. And their response is to continue to post replies to the thread, keep it at the top of the boards, and give him the attention he allegedly wants.
killrobotkill
Footballguy
So let's say LHUCKS posts one Bold Substance-Free Prediction a week for the rest of the season. If everyone ignored all 17 of these posts, that would be 17 posts that would drop off the front page like a rock. Where's the problem?I think if the board moderators saw his posts as a value suck the way you do, they would have revoked his privileges by now. But I'm sure there's many people, lurkers and posters combined, who read these boards and don't have the same quality standards that you do. These are the same people that read other fantasy columninsts and magazines looking for Bold Predictions and not caring too much about the analysis behind them. I've played with them in other leagues, so I oughta know.On the other hand, you don't think responses to such posts by people trying to over-nanny the board is a bigger value suck? I can't imaging any prospective readers really want to read that.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
I'm on board with this...since it seems to be getting some of your panties in a bunch. Going forward I'll have a single thread since these threads are cluttering up the board so much and preventing other "real" ff conversation.
Winky the tunnel ferret
Footballguy
I just reported LHUCKS.
road warrior
Footballguy
I love it.
The guy makes a prediction and 2/3 of the replies are how he's looking for attention.... yet that's what you're giving him. Love the logic here.
You're gonna eat your words when LHUCKS becomes part of the FBG staff.
The guy makes a prediction and 2/3 of the replies are how he's looking for attention.... yet that's what you're giving him. Love the logic here.
You're gonna eat your words when LHUCKS becomes part of the FBG staff.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Why does everyone miss the point?It's not that he's looking for attention, therefore we shouldn't give it to him.It's that he's looking for attention, and FBG knows this, therefore we SHOULD give it to him. The worst possible kind of attention. It's what everyone wants. LHUCKS wants to see people jump in his "boat." Little fish like me want to shake our fists at the moon. FBG wants this as the defacto spokesperson for their site.We all win!I posted a direct link to this post from ten of the largest sports and gambling themed websites, forums, and blogs on the web. This is now a direct point of entry for over a quarter million people daily.The bad news is that most of them won't bother to click the link.The worse news is that some of them will.Happy happy joy joy joy!!!Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
killrobotkill said:
Phase of the Game
Footballguy
You're insane if you think that will happen.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
killrobotkill
Footballguy
I don't follow you here. Are you saying you don't want the people on the board that this sort of post will attract?
zoonation
Footballguy
Das Boot
Footballguy
With lhucks taking a dump on David Dodds' rankings like he is in this thread and last week's lhucks thread, I tend to agree.
road warrior
Footballguy
Just proved my point. Say something completely ridiculous, and you too can become the next Football Guys Idol.
nysportsfan
Footballguy
Right on cue, you're wrong again.Right on cue, Rotoworld chiming in with Orton#14 and Schaub#5.
gary mexico
Footballguy
I rolled with Orton over Brady, worked for me.....
Hellfire Snail
Footballguy
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
LHUCKS - i challenge you to a sig bet. let's talk.
bonesman
Footballguy
switz
Footballguy
I don't agree with LHUCKS schtick, nor his prognostications. But, at least he has balls enough to make predictions. There are a bunch of you who only use this forum to flame people, but lack the cajones to take a stand on any player. Man up - if you're going to criticize, be willing to lay it on the line. You mean LHUCKS was wrong about players? Gee, I guess that makes him horrible. Why do we even use this site, given that LHUCKS the previous year shows how bad the FBGs are at prognosticating. I guess they are all awful too.Idiots.
KGB
Footballguy
ooooooooooooooooooooooofRight on cue, you're wrong again.Right on cue, Rotoworld chiming in with Orton#14 and Schaub#5.
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