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Out Of Touch With Reality (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bruce Hammond
- Start date
ebsteelers
Footballguy
exactly.. his reality is different than ours.
nothing wrong with that.. just different.
its noon on a Thursday in June and were on a football related message board.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
Um... the use of the word 'delusional' was yours in post #13 referring to me. Let's keep things accurate.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Vets miss OTA type stuff all the time
Way to over-react pool
Im taking Chrissy Michael at 2, just so I can have him!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111
Way to over-react pool
Im taking Chrissy Michael at 2, just so I can have him!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
My bad. You just called them "stupid" and "out of touch with reality." Much different.
massraider
Footballguy
There's a thread around the corner that needs wrecking. Grab Phenix and get to work.
Paulymaggs
Footballguy
While you keep up the good work of having meaningful discussions with the OP about how stupid Lynch is and how he is so out of touch with reality.
opensourcebeer
Footballguy
Good posting.
I think there are some great content in the pool, but far too often it's drown out by petty internet bickering. Couple that with the severe lack of moderation and you have mostly unreadable threads (like this one has turned into).
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Will read this thread eventually, but just a quick response to the OP.
A lot of time when guys hold out its moreso just fluff, knowing it wont go anywhere, trying to use the leverage of not participating in some stuff to get the team to pay them a little more to get them to go to practice in June. They basically just don't want to go to the practices yet, but instead of just not showing up they call it a hold out. He knows he isnt getting more money. For lynch, not like he needs to learn the playbook.
So yeah, I agree that many of these guys are delusional, but this isn't one of them..
As for moreno, depends exactly what they consider to be out of shape. What, did he gain 7 pounds? Playing in a super bowl might even be why some of the guys from that game would be out of shape rigjt now. Everyone needs time off to let some things heal. Kinda like when Shaq was always out of shape until midseason. They were always playing deep into the playoffs, and he would take time off pretty much until the season started them work himself into shape. As for moreno, yeah, I am sure he coulda figured out a way to modify his eating and workouts to be in better shape rigjt now and as a free agent it sure seems strange that he didn't. However, i don't know what his body was feeling like after so many touches this year.
Neither case is as silly as when Terell Owens held out the flowing year after signing a huge 7 year deal. Lot of other guys do some dumb stuff though
A lot of time when guys hold out its moreso just fluff, knowing it wont go anywhere, trying to use the leverage of not participating in some stuff to get the team to pay them a little more to get them to go to practice in June. They basically just don't want to go to the practices yet, but instead of just not showing up they call it a hold out. He knows he isnt getting more money. For lynch, not like he needs to learn the playbook.
So yeah, I agree that many of these guys are delusional, but this isn't one of them..
As for moreno, depends exactly what they consider to be out of shape. What, did he gain 7 pounds? Playing in a super bowl might even be why some of the guys from that game would be out of shape rigjt now. Everyone needs time off to let some things heal. Kinda like when Shaq was always out of shape until midseason. They were always playing deep into the playoffs, and he would take time off pretty much until the season started them work himself into shape. As for moreno, yeah, I am sure he coulda figured out a way to modify his eating and workouts to be in better shape rigjt now and as a free agent it sure seems strange that he didn't. However, i don't know what his body was feeling like after so many touches this year.
Neither case is as silly as when Terell Owens held out the flowing year after signing a huge 7 year deal. Lot of other guys do some dumb stuff though
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
Here is the problem I have. You asked me about this and I anwered it in post #23, calmly and unoffensively. Fine if you disagree, but it seems if someone disagrees with you (here and in other threads I've seen) their belief has to be ridiculous because it doesn't coincide with yours. Why can't it just be enough to disagree? Why the anger?
Similarly, Raiderfan's belief that Michael can be as good as a 28 year old Lynch or a 29 year old Peterson HAS TO BE nonsense? Again, such condescencion because someone has a belief other than yours. I don't understand your need to be like this. Have we never seen an untested Arian Foster or many others shoot to the top of the stats when given the chance? Why does Raiderfan not have the right to express his opinion without condecending
smilies coming his way? You're so sure of the future that he (or I) cannot be right, and we don't have the right to express our best guess as to the future?I regret even starting this thread today, I should have known better. Last post in this thread.
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Noah Davis
Footballguy
Lynch is replaceable - the offensive mindset is shifting in Seattle. The Run/Pass ration was 65/45 in Wilson's 1st year 63/47 his 2nd year and they just took two high potential WRs in the draft. Each year they are opening up more to Wilson's passing skill and cutting back the run game. They want to be a balanced offense with a top 3 defense.
In that situation with the threat of Wilson taking over a game you don't need a ground and pound beast mode back - it is a nice to have not a must have.
JMO
In that situation with the threat of Wilson taking over a game you don't need a ground and pound beast mode back - it is a nice to have not a must have.
JMO
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
This might be the smartest post I've seen in a while.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Definitely agree. 95% of the guys are drastically underpaid.Milkman said:
Phenix
Footballguy
I again state the truths others do not want to point out or do not understand like myself, sorry that appears as "wrecking" to you.
If you don't want to believe the things I say because you hate the way I say them, that's on you, not me.
Also, does my avatar of you bother you that much?
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I don't think Lynch is a idiot to want more money. None of us know a thing about his finances. He's basically planning for retirement. This is his last chance to get paid.
He has no leverage though. Sea have been drafting similar backs for a few years now planning for this day.
He has no leverage though. Sea have been drafting similar backs for a few years now planning for this day.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
In a game of opinions, its hard to say someone is definitively wrong......but you are wrong.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So since Lynch knows he will be cut next year, isn't he technically holding out for LESS money??
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I don't think this thread is a troll but why are some coming into it and thinking there was value to begin with? You mention Lynch and it's going to be about Michael anymore. Questioning Moreno is weird too. Surprise he's human and got lazy. Not the first or last veteran to do so. Maybe he was hurting from actually playing a full season as opposed to being dinged up for half the year. Lynch is also not out of touch. 28 is about the last time as an RB you can ask for or get a decent contract and what it may actually come down to is he just wants to miss OTAs. Not unreasonable, especially give his "900 violent carries" and a back "about to explode/pop" behind him that can take some of that extra punishment in camp he doesn't have to.
Phenix
Footballguy
Rotoworld said the exact same thing in regards to Michael in consecutive posts. Their love for this guy is clear and driven by someone on the site. Its amazing the hype Rotoworld can create when all they provide is rhetoric with little info in their blurbs.
They mentioned something about Theo Riddick and he was immediately picked up in the majority of my leagues. Amazing.
Monsters of the Midway
Footballguy
I'm reluctant to jump into this fray, but what the heck.
Rotoworld's Evan Silva is a huge fan, which is one of the reasons that I am. Other stuff I have heard/read
- Someone from ESPN who worked in an NFL front office (Lance Riddick) said Michael was the most talented RB drafted in the last 5 years
- That strength coach from A&M who worked with both Michael and ADP, who said that their athletic explosiveness were on par with each other
FBG staffers Sigmund Bloom & Chad Parsons feel similarly iirc. Parsons has a number of algorithms he uses to predict success and they just love Michael.
Rotoworld's Evan Silva is a huge fan, which is one of the reasons that I am. Other stuff I have heard/read
- Someone from ESPN who worked in an NFL front office (Lance Riddick) said Michael was the most talented RB drafted in the last 5 years
- That strength coach from A&M who worked with both Michael and ADP, who said that their athletic explosiveness were on par with each other
FBG staffers Sigmund Bloom & Chad Parsons feel similarly iirc. Parsons has a number of algorithms he uses to predict success and they just love Michael.
biju
Footballguy
That's actually not the opinion of all Seattle fans, just to be clear. There is debate on this, but there is a feeling that the talent drop off isn't as much as one might expect and making a trade might be the right move if he isn't going to budge. There are also plenty of folks who believe Lynch is irreplaceable and that losing him means we're giving up on 2014.ctrlaltdefeat said:
I lie in the middle on this, leaning more toward trying to trade him and get value. It's the "sell the truck while it still runs" methodology for sure.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Lynch is a fighter. For every yard on every play. What's lost in all of this is that Seattle's oline didn't open up huge holes for Lynch--he created a lot on his own. Does Michael have that fight? Will he be successful, or as successful as Lynch, in making something out of absolutely nothing? I don't think so. There is a reason for the "Beast Mode" nickname. No way they let Lynch walk this year or next. His fight and heart are NOT replaceable...
biju
Footballguy
Sure, but when he was effectively shut down in the Super Bowl Wilson just threw it against them. People are assuming that because Lynch is who he is that the offense will suffer. I'm not as sold on that idea and think Wilson will just take over a greater amount of the offense. And in turn, we'll continue to get great production from the running game regardless.
biju
Footballguy
My gut tells me it was more Turbin than Lynch, but I think it was like a 60/40 split. Again, no actual numbers just a gut feeling based on watching.
Do you happen to know what Parson's track record is? Taking a look at his current rankings, he seems to be gaga over youth:
RB- L. Bell #2, Gio #3, Ball #6, Hyde #8
WR- Patterson #8, Watkins #9, Evans #10, Cooks #13, Adams #15, A. Robinson #16, Beckham #18, Dobson #19
TE- Ebron #3, Eifert #4, ASJ #7
Most of these seem insanely high to me.
identikit
Footballguy
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Add me to the list of those that think Michael will be better than lynch. I want that cred when this is bumped 3 years from now.
Monsters of the Midway
Footballguy
Parsons' expertise is dynasty, so that's probably why he likes the younger players. His podcasts are great and he's a good twitter follow too-very responsive.
DaveGrumbles
Footballguy
We are gonna talk about the benefits/drawbacks of weed in here later though...right?...I just wanna make sure.
identikit
Footballguy
Well, there's liking younger players, and there's skewing your rankings because of it.
I tend to look at consensus rankings mostly, so outliers have their place too.
I like him on twitter also.
jurb26
Footballguy
Don't bother. Unless of course you want to read thru another C. Michael thread. I guess the 40 page one going wasn't enough.
cstu
Footballguy
It isn't what the fans think, it's what the Seahawks management thinks. I believe Lynch is being smart after seeing what happened to the Chris Johnson. The writing is on the wall that if his contract stands as is ($7.5M salary) he'll be cut next year.
If he can get a couple million of that converted as a signing bonus and bring his 2015 salary down to $5M (or less) and $3M in dead money if he's cut then there's a good chance they decide to keep him.
Phenix
Footballguy
What does Jim from Maine think? Clearly what every one thinks is all that matters. What did everyone think of David Wilson. Dont bother I read the same exact over hyping in that 40 page thread.
I am questioning if this site really has a bunch of football people or just fans of fantasy football who have high hopes for certain players on their fantasy teams and this is where they choose to push the hype.
People are comparing Michael to ADP because his strength coach, let me repeat that... BECAUSE OF A STRENGTH COACH IN COLLEGE, said so!
I can't make this stuff up.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Why are some of you talking like they woukd let Lynch go THIS year........why????
Also, there is zero chance Lynch would hold out into the season. Zero. It would be a guaranteed loss of money.
Also, there is zero chance Lynch would hold out into the season. Zero. It would be a guaranteed loss of money.
I think just about everyone who decides to become a professional football player is out of touch with reality
cstu
Footballguy
Into the season I agree is unlikely. However, do the Seahawks want to drag this drama out through training camp when they are trying to repeat? I don't think they are ready to trade Lynch and move on with unproven Michael.
biju
Footballguy
I was responding to the idea that Seattle fans would lose their mind if we traded/cut Lynch. Mostly the fans here expect Carroll and Schneider to always make the right call--they've earned that with by making many right calls. Sure, there will be a group of overly-sentimental folks who get very upset and their season tickets will get snatched up in about 10 seconds.
I mean, it hasn't even been a decade since the last time we did this crap (Alexanders and Hutchinson's poison pill) and the fans are going to lose their minds? No...
Neofight
Footballguy
Why do you have to make it up? The strength coach was pretty clear. Michael trains with AP in the offseason as well. I'm sure it's because AP is concerned with Michael's fantasy owners prospects.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
well we know you won't show up if you are wrong.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
None of them are underpaid. Or else they would quit the NFL and go do something else.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
I don't think the Lynch scenario is clear-cut at all. I agree that in the current market he is far from underpaid this year, and it seems "crazy" to hold out. His leverage seems negligible at best. I don't think it's ZERO leverage though. I think the reigning champs would prefer to keep an element of their team that helped them dominate the league for at least one more year rather than give those 350 touches to a question mark.
We also don't know specifically what he is asking for. Maybe he is just trying to make sure he's around in 2015 because he sees the writing on the wall just like we do. And I agree that there isn't much for him to lose. He's no leader in the traditional sense, and everyone knows it. That's not why he's there, and it wont be why he's there in the future if it turns out he is. But he definitely brings some attitude and some energy that is hard to quantify. Beast-mode is a well-earned moniker. Holding out in the pre-season isn't going to change anything about his perceived character.
I also think that the Michael hype is out of control, and I'm an owner. He is a promising young guy with some impressive measurables. So were Taiwan Jones and Latavius Murray (queue the line around the block for guys telling me how Michael is totally different from those guys). There is more to being a tailback than being big, fast, strong and quick. He's not Adrian Peterson, and there is no guarantee he is even close to Lynch for that matter. He could be great, don't get me wrong - his physical makeup gives him a head-start over most prospects. But we just don't know at this point if he has the rest of what it takes to be dominant at the NFL level.
All in all, I'm split. Do I think he will get a big raise? No. Do I think his stance hurts him that much? Not really. I think the odds of him gaining something he wants from his actions are about the same as the odds of his losing something he cares about - fairly low in both cases. And in the mean-time? An extended vacation.
We also don't know specifically what he is asking for. Maybe he is just trying to make sure he's around in 2015 because he sees the writing on the wall just like we do. And I agree that there isn't much for him to lose. He's no leader in the traditional sense, and everyone knows it. That's not why he's there, and it wont be why he's there in the future if it turns out he is. But he definitely brings some attitude and some energy that is hard to quantify. Beast-mode is a well-earned moniker. Holding out in the pre-season isn't going to change anything about his perceived character.
I also think that the Michael hype is out of control, and I'm an owner. He is a promising young guy with some impressive measurables. So were Taiwan Jones and Latavius Murray (queue the line around the block for guys telling me how Michael is totally different from those guys). There is more to being a tailback than being big, fast, strong and quick. He's not Adrian Peterson, and there is no guarantee he is even close to Lynch for that matter. He could be great, don't get me wrong - his physical makeup gives him a head-start over most prospects. But we just don't know at this point if he has the rest of what it takes to be dominant at the NFL level.
All in all, I'm split. Do I think he will get a big raise? No. Do I think his stance hurts him that much? Not really. I think the odds of him gaining something he wants from his actions are about the same as the odds of his losing something he cares about - fairly low in both cases. And in the mean-time? An extended vacation.
Hey Guys,
This is a super interesting topic. And one that could have incredible value for Michael if things change with Lynch. So we definitely want good discussion on that.
But let's make it that. Good discussion. Turn the tool factor way down for some of you guys. Save the jabs and the eye rolls (and the statements that are said in hopes of bringing an eyeroll). Basically, cut the noise and stay on the topic.
Say what you think and why you think it. Say less about trying to tear down the other guy's thought and why he thinks it.
Thanks.
J
This is a super interesting topic. And one that could have incredible value for Michael if things change with Lynch. So we definitely want good discussion on that.
But let's make it that. Good discussion. Turn the tool factor way down for some of you guys. Save the jabs and the eye rolls (and the statements that are said in hopes of bringing an eyeroll). Basically, cut the noise and stay on the topic.
Say what you think and why you think it. Say less about trying to tear down the other guy's thought and why he thinks it.
Thanks.
J
A lot of people play dynasty and like younger players as well, but those rankings are way out of whack with most others'. I was curious if anyone knew his track record because he's really sticking his neck out there with those rankings. I mean, in a start up draft today, is he really taking 7 rookie WRs over Jordy Nelson and Victor Cruz, 8 over Brandon Marshall, and 11 over Fitz and VJax?
DropKick
Footballguy
I don't think this is actually true. Even if the coaching staff thought Michael was an upgrade over Lynch they will play Lynch. First, Lynch is a more than capable option. Second, they're paying him 5.5 million ($7 million if you factor in the signing bonus) and they're not paying him that to sit on the bench. And, third, Lynch has the respect of the rest of team and I don't think you manage the team that way.If Michael is indeed better than Lynch then no one is going to have to wait a year to bump anything. Best guy plays in Seattle -- give us an over / under on which week of the 2014 season we can expect Michael to be getting more touches than Lynch.Don't you just love it when guys use that spinning smiley as if you're some sort of idiot? This bump next year is gonna be sweet.Let's bump this in a year shall we?
