Owen Daniels Signs with Denver (1 Viewer)

[Dr. Octopus]

What is his value in terms of Rookie picks?

This is what I'm getting at. Yes, his value certainly increased and this is probably the best-case-scenario for owners, but it increased from worthless to next to worthless (speaking in terms of trade value- he has more value as your back-up TE, but that's just not worth much of anything to other owners).

Yes it would basically take a "sucker" to make a killing on this news - most dynasty owners are likely not even going to pay a third for him. If you own him, just be happy that the week you need to start him perhaps you get lucky with a 2 TD day - or if that 2 TD day comes early in the season maybe you can dump him then.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

What is his value in terms of Rookie picks?

This is what I'm getting at. Yes, his value certainly increased and this is probably the best-case-scenario for owners, but it increased from worthless to next to worthless (speaking in terms of trade value- he has more value as your back-up TE, but that's just not worth much of anything to other owners).

if the season started tomorrow.....where do you think Daniels gets drafted in redraft.........what number TE is he off the board?

 

[humpback]

What is his value in terms of Rookie picks?

This is what I'm getting at. Yes, his value certainly increased and this is probably the best-case-scenario for owners, but it increased from worthless to next to worthless (speaking in terms of trade value- he has more value as your back-up TE, but that's just not worth much of anything to other owners).

if the season started tomorrow.....where do you think Daniels gets drafted in redraft.........what number TE is he off the board?

Somewhere in the 12-17 range probably. Anyone who already owns him is talking dynasty, and his value is even lower there.

 

[Yenrub]

2014 J Thomas has 12 TD's on 43 rec's. 2013 12 TD's on 65 rec's.

24 TD's on 108 rec's is insane. O Daniels in an average offense is good for 6 TD's.

With Manning it's 8 TD's with 600-800 yards. Cheap starting FF TE.

He's never caught 8 TD's his whole career, he only caught over 800 yds once. I must be taking crazy pills if I'm starting to think that's going to happen at 32. Lets come back down to earth. Guy is no better than John Carlson starting in Arizona last year.

Finished as #16 TE in my standard (non PPR) league last year. I can see him jumping up 4 or 5 spots with Peyton as his QB as long as he can stay healthy.

Physically (and real football wise) he may not be any better than John Carlson (#31 TE in same league) but his fantasy situation is a hell of a lot better.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

What is his value in terms of Rookie picks?

This is what I'm getting at. Yes, his value certainly increased and this is probably the best-case-scenario for owners, but it increased from worthless to next to worthless (speaking in terms of trade value- he has more value as your back-up TE, but that's just not worth much of anything to other owners).

if the season started tomorrow.....where do you think Daniels gets drafted in redraft.........what number TE is he off the board?

Somewhere in the 12-17 range probably. Anyone who already owns him is talking dynasty, and his value is even lower there.

in redraft I think 12 is fair.....but I would expect that to increase as season gets closer.....and no way do 16 TE's come off the board before him.....

dynasty is a different duck......but in a 12 team league he's probably a weekly starter for somebody....

 

[humpback]

What is his value in terms of Rookie picks?

This is what I'm getting at. Yes, his value certainly increased and this is probably the best-case-scenario for owners, but it increased from worthless to next to worthless (speaking in terms of trade value- he has more value as your back-up TE, but that's just not worth much of anything to other owners).

if the season started tomorrow.....where do you think Daniels gets drafted in redraft.........what number TE is he off the board?

Somewhere in the 12-17 range probably. Anyone who already owns him is talking dynasty, and his value is even lower there.

in redraft I think 12 is fair.....but I would expect that to increase as season gets closer.....and no way do 16 TE's come off the board before him.....

dynasty is a different duck......but in a 12 team league he's probably a weekly starter for somebody....

I can certainly make a case for 16 guys before him, but it's moot. No one owns him right now in redraft, so this signing doesn't benefit anyone- sure, his production likely went up, but so did the cost to acquire him.

The people saying this is "huge" for them are dynasty owners, and this really doesn't do a heck of a lot there. Maybe he slips into the top 25 or so in dynasty, but that's next to worthless.

 

[Freelove]

What is his value in terms of Rookie picks?

This is what I'm getting at. Yes, his value certainly increased and this is probably the best-case-scenario for owners, but it increased from worthless to next to worthless (speaking in terms of trade value- he has more value as your back-up TE, but that's just not worth much of anything to other owners).

if the season started tomorrow.....where do you think Daniels gets drafted in redraft.........what number TE is he off the board?

I'll start looking for him around TE five or six at the latest in early drafts, even though he'll be TE #2 in my personsl rankings. By the start of the season, he'll be everyone's TE #3 Or #4.

Talented pass-catching TE's don't fall into the best situation imaginable and then return end-of-draft value.

 

[nightmare]

Once you get past the top 8 TE's the rest are all a crap shoot.

Gronk and Graham...............J Thomas.... J Olsen, M Bennett, T Kelce

D Walker, J Reed..Colts TE's. Witten and V Davis are still in there(but where?).

D Pitta, Giants TE's H Miller, C Clay, Z Ertz, A S Jenkins, M Rivera, E Ebron.

J Cameron? J Gresham? Where do they rank?

For the past 5 seasons TE12 has scored(standerd FBG) 95 points(+/-2)

TE4 has scored 130(+/-4). TE1 is anywhere from 152 to 241.

The players from 4 to 12 will all change from year to year but O Daniels could

be nice insurance if you have a J Cameron, T Kelce, or V Davis situation, talented

guys not getting used.

I don't think J Thomas is any better then the next group of guys I listed just his TD's

puts him there. That will change in Jacksonville. TE is the shallowest position in FF.

If you can pull out a dynasty starter from the scrap heap(even for a season) that's gold.

 

[humpback]

What is his value in terms of Rookie picks?

This is what I'm getting at. Yes, his value certainly increased and this is probably the best-case-scenario for owners, but it increased from worthless to next to worthless (speaking in terms of trade value- he has more value as your back-up TE, but that's just not worth much of anything to other owners).

if the season started tomorrow.....where do you think Daniels gets drafted in redraft.........what number TE is he off the board?

I'll start looking for him around TE five or six at the latest in early drafts, even though he'll be TE #2 in my personsl rankings. By the start of the season, he'll be everyone's TE #3 Or #4.

Talented pass-catching TE's don't fall into the best situation imaginable and then return end-of-draft value.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

just for the hell of it...if redrafting today....something like this

gronk

graham

bennett

olsen

kelce

thomas

witten

gates

cameron (+/-)

clay

reed

walker

allen

fleener

ertz

rudolph

eifert

miller

davis

rodgers

asj

ebron

amaro

donnell

rivera

gresham

not counting Pitta as I don't think he plays.....whoever they (BAL) brings in I definatley think joins this party in a big way tho.....

give or take....personal preference might move some guys up/down significantly and no rooks here.....with Daniels as the pass catching TE in DEN....if drafting today....I start sniffing him in that Thomas/Witten/Gates area.....probably waiting until one or two or all of them go off the board and then I'm thinking about pulling the trigger....

65-875-9 seems reasonable and has you sniffing top 5 in PPR......

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Picked him up off waivers a few weeks ago. Now he is playing with Manning. HUGE comeup for me seeing that I paid NOTHING to get him. Plus Kubiak loves the TE. Green owners have to be pissed. Unless of course your league gives points for blocking.

See, this is the point I was making in this thread. From free on the ww to startable TE just like that.

Is he going to be starting for you?

No, I hope not. I own Gronk pretty much everywhere. Maybe as a bye week filler somewhere.

Not sure why its relevant.

 

[humpback]

Picked him up off waivers a few weeks ago. Now he is playing with Manning. HUGE comeup for me seeing that I paid NOTHING to get him. Plus Kubiak loves the TE. Green owners have to be pissed. Unless of course your league gives points for blocking.

See, this is the point I was making in this thread. From free on the ww to startable TE just like that.

Is he going to be starting for you?

No, I hope not. I own Gronk pretty much everywhere. Maybe as a bye week filler somewhere.Not sure why its relevant.

It's relevant in determining how helpful this is for owners.

 

[Bojang0301]

just for the hell of it...if redrafting today....something like this

gronk

graham

bennett

olsen

kelce

thomas

witten

gates

cameron (+/-)

clay

reed

walker

allen

fleener

ertz

rudolph

eifert

miller

davis

rodgers

asj

ebron

amaro

donnell

rivera

gresham

not counting Pitta as I don't think he plays.....whoever they (BAL) brings in I definatley think joins this party in a big way tho.....

give or take....personal preference might move some guys up/down significantly and no rooks here.....with Daniels as the pass catching TE in DEN....if drafting today....I start sniffing him in that Thomas/Witten/Gates area.....probably waiting until one or two or all of them go off the board and then I'm thinking about pulling the trigger....

65-875-9 seems reasonable and has you sniffing top 5 in PPR......

He's never, ever produced those numbers. You can't even justify the idea of those numbers. He never produced them under Kubiak and when Schaub was in his prime he had some 4,000 yd seasons. Not only that, you've completely disregarded Green. I'm even starting to theorize you're trying to use this board to puff up a guys trade value who is a fringe matchup TE at best.

 

[Bri]

Owen Daniels has a knack for TD catches around the goal line.

There is no doubt that if he survives Manning hanging him out to dry, he will catch plenty of TDs. Kubiak is the HC and the TE always gets a lot of redzone TD looks.

Daniels lacks that ability to get hit, get up, and move on like nothing happened. It's oddly common how many NFL TEs can take a huge hit and shake it off like nothing happened. Daniels is....well, he's probably normal. In a TEs world though that makes him almost not tough.

The Ravens went through some bad injuries with their talented TEs and the Texans started to have their share when he was finishing up there. I think Kubiak may be aware of this problem.

Last I looked Charles Clay was available and I don't figure he's uber expensive. To use him as an example, I think the Broncos replace Thomas with a couple TEs and not just one and hope he makes it through.

Daniels has an excellent understanding of offense and is a very good player at times. I think Kubiak is aware of his limitations though

Denver is basically out of $$$$$ at this point unless they cut somebody and free up some cash......any more moves they make will be pretty minor......Clay is in demand, that would not be a minor move....unlike last year (and because of last year) what you see is basically what you get right now in DEN.....the focus will be things like replacing Franklin on the o line and Pot Roast on D....

Who are...what is the quality of the backups in DEN?

If Kubiak assumes he's got Daniels 11 games (random number) then do they have someone that can hold the fort for 5 games?

 

[nightmare]

V Green can be disregarded because in the 4 years he's been in Denver he has not been fantasy relevant.

One TD in 4 years. 74 yards TOTAL once in 4 years. What do you think he's going to breakout

to? 550/6?, 400/5? 23 for 206/1 are his CAREER numbers.

Two years ago people were picking J Thomas off of the scrap heap. J Dreesen was supposed to be the

guy. Last year J Forsett in Baltimore was on a lot of waiver wires. Take the waiver wire flyer now. If it doesn't

work move on. Right now O Daniels is the starter in a high output offense with a coach that knows him well.

Hell, pick all the Denver TE's up. One of them is going to be a FF starter with 600/8 to 800/8.

 

[Bojang0301]

1) I would expect that if Green falls to a platoon receiver/blocker role with Daniels the split would be close to the Dreesen/Tamme splits of 2012. Both were not rosterable.

2) A player with Green's well documented athleticism should never be disregarded especially because the situation you're fawning over for a 32 y/o TE who was an afterthoughts afterthought before this signing.

3) DANIELS HAS NEVER CAUGHT 8TD's. Never, not once. Kubiak has only had a TE catch over 800 yds ONCE in his time since Houston and NEVER had a TE catch 8 TD's. Notice the correlation. Curious as to why that is.

4) People are massively underselling Thomas as a player. Yes it was opportunity plus talent but the talent is not small to do those things. Jacob Tamme didn't do them.

5) Finally, 32 year old TE's do not suddenly have their best season. Yes in recent years Gates and Gonzalez have broken the TE decline threshold but another well documented history is the irrelevance these guys fall into after the age of 30. They are abused more than RB's as they are asked to block 280lb DL's then go take shots over the middle of the field.

My conclusion would be that most likely DT, Sanders and Latimer are the beneficiaries of JT's departure. I also expect a stronger running game with Kubiak's influence and what really started to look like a declining Peyton toward the end of last year.

 

[nightmare]

M Schaub was not a high output TD QB. A Johnson went over 1500 yards 3 times and never broke

double digit TD's. Rec's getting yardage like that and it's rare not to be double digit TD's.

J Flacco is also not a FF TD QB. He could throw 27 or 19 TD's this year

I think J Thomas in Jacksonville is limited by the weaker offense not his ability. In Denver he got

limited touchs and maximum output. I haven't yet seen people discounting him. He is still in the

mix to be a top 6 TE.

With the yards/TD's P Manning piles up 2 WR's are going to be top 12 or at least top 18. The 3rd

will be top 24 with the TE output being high. We'll see how much of that is/isn't Daniels.

Green's jock has been disregarded for 4 seasons now(hell of a blocker) unless we see some kind

of news blurb about that changing I'll still put Daniels as the starter-unless they draft a "move" TE

or sign a budget TE like S Chandler.

Kubiak knows Daniels(injuries and all) and brought him in-it wasn't to bench warm.

I'll still take P Manning for 12 games to get me to the FF playoffs and go from there.

 

[georg013]

Manning has reached out to Daniels in an effort to get him to attend his passing camp. I cant imagine why... He is washed up and wont be asked to do much.

(USA Today)Denver Broncos TE Owen Daniels, who signed a three-year, $12 million deal with the team Tuesday, March 10, was asked by QB Peyton Manning to attend his Duke passing camp later this month. Daniels brings with him to Denver a reputation as a precise route runner, and he admitted that this offseason will include "more studying" as head coach Gary Kubiak incorporates new language into Denver's offense.

Seeing that I know more about Daniels's level of ability and how the Broncos intend to use him (since I have spent many years as a desktop coach) I will not plan on him being productive. Clearly, Virgil Green is the guy to own since he is younger, shinier, and the sexier option.

 

[georg013]

Picked him up off waivers a few weeks ago. Now he is playing with Manning. HUGE comeup for me seeing that I paid NOTHING to get him. Plus Kubiak loves the TE. Green owners have to be pissed. Unless of course your league gives points for blocking.

See, this is the point I was making in this thread. From free on the ww to startable TE just like that.

Is he going to be starting for you?

No, I hope not. I own Gronk pretty much everywhere. Maybe as a bye week filler somewhere.

Not sure why its relevant.

TE is a weak position for me. So, I will (likely) be leaning on Daniels quite a bit. I also have Jordan Cameron (teamless) and Eric Ebron (inexperienced).

 

[nightmare]

I don't think Daniels ADP shoots up to TE6 but he is a guy you take just to

keep him of of some one else's roster.

In one dynasty league I'm in 8 of of the top 12 TE's are owned by 4 people.

I'll take Daniels just to keep him from going against me. He may get hurt

but that won't help you if you've already lost to that owner.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Owen Daniels is not a guy who scores TD's. that's not what he does, is anyone seriously expecting him to all of a sudden become a tough guy who fight through bumps to get open in the red zone?

 

[humpback]

Manning has reached out to Daniels in an effort to get him to attend his passing camp. I cant imagine why... He is washed up and wont be asked to do much.

(USA Today)Denver Broncos TE Owen Daniels, who signed a three-year, $12 million deal with the team Tuesday, March 10, was asked by QB Peyton Manning to attend his Duke passing camp later this month. Daniels brings with him to Denver a reputation as a precise route runner, and he admitted that this offseason will include "more studying" as head coach Gary Kubiak incorporates new language into Denver's offense.

Seeing that I know more about Daniels's level of ability and how the Broncos intend to use him (since I have spent many years as a desktop coach) I will not plan on him being productive. Clearly, Virgil Green is the guy to own since he is younger, shinier, and the sexier option.

Well, that locks it up. Just look at Andre Caldwell, who not only was invited but attended that camp last year, and he caught 5 whole passes on the season!

 

[georg013]

The salt shakers are out in full force. No one is saying they have Gronk 2.0 on their hands. Only, he has fallen into the right situation. Why does it have to be so extreme? I swear some of you are comical with the hate and hyperbole. For players you don't own, you come up with 101 reasons why they WON'T succeed and in the same breath hype up a guy who has done NOTHING his entire career besides block. Yeah, THAT makes much more sense... SMH.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

The salt shakers are out in full force. No one is saying they have Gronk 2.0 on their hands. Only, he has fallen into the right situation. Why does it have to be so extreme? I swear some of you are comical with the hate and hyperbole. For players you don't own, you come up with 101 reasons why they WON'T succeed and in the same breath hype up a guy who has done NOTHING his entire career besides block. Yeah, THAT makes much more sense... SMH.

not true at all. i love Daniels as a Badger fan, i've followed his whole career. If he stays healthy he could put up solid yardage numbers, but he's not going to be a guy that all of a sudden gets 10+ TD's in a season. It's called being realistic.

This has made him FF relevant, but he's not the same type of TE as Julius Thomas, he's just not.

 

[humpback]

The salt shakers are out in full force. No one is saying they have Gronk 2.0 on their hands. Only, he has fallen into the right situation. Why does it have to be so extreme? I swear some of you are comical with the hate and hyperbole. For players you don't own, you come up with 101 reasons why they WON'T succeed and in the same breath hype up a guy who has done NOTHING his entire career besides block. Yeah, THAT makes much more sense... SMH.

You said it was a "HUGE comeup" for you. Most of us are just more realistic.

 

[Bojang0301]

The salt shakers are out in full force. No one is saying they have Gronk 2.0 on their hands. Only, he has fallen into the right situation. Why does it have to be so extreme? I swear some of you are comical with the hate and hyperbole. For players you don't own, you come up with 101 reasons why they WON'T succeed and in the same breath hype up a guy who has done NOTHING his entire career besides block. Yeah, THAT makes much more sense... SMH.

They are suggesting they have something in similar means to Gronk. It is ridiculous on many different levels. No one is saying Green is JT or even viable. Just a flier who has a high level of athleticism with Manning at the helm. In these circumstances it has been my experience, not sarcastically as a "desktop coach", but as an avid FF'er to take the high upside, young guy. We know what Daniels is. Even if he drank from some fountain of youth it usually becomes non sustainable over a full season and everything is against him having his peak year. Like I said the Tamme/Dreesen split of '12 is probably more along the lines of what happens if Green is still relegated to extra tackle. That would be a 500/300 split with about 8 TD's amongst the two. Ironically, the same number people want to purport Daniels to be a lock too. No one has hyped Green in this entire thread. Just saying what the smart move is. Sell Daniels, hold Green. You know what they say about history though and those that fail to acknowledge it...

 

[georg013]

The salt shakers are out in full force. No one is saying they have Gronk 2.0 on their hands. Only, he has fallen into the right situation. Why does it have to be so extreme? I swear some of you are comical with the hate and hyperbole. For players you don't own, you come up with 101 reasons why they WON'T succeed and in the same breath hype up a guy who has done NOTHING his entire career besides block. Yeah, THAT makes much more sense... SMH.

You said it was a "HUGE comeup" for you. Most of us are just more realistic.

The key word in that is "Me". Have you seen MY tight ends? I listed them earlier. Kellen Winslow Jr. would instantly become my top TE with the guys I have rostered. All I need is serviceable. He is that. I went from having a waiver wire longshot to having Peyton Mannings TE. For MY TEAM that is a HUGE come up.

 

[georg013]

Owning Green is not necessarily the smart move. At least thats what "history" has shown us to date. Smart, in this game, is subjective.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

They are suggesting they have something in similar means to Gronk. It is ridiculous on many different levels.

Link.

 

[Bojang0301]

Owning Green is not necessarily the smart move. At least thats what "history" has shown us to date. Smart, in this game, is subjective.

I can accept that. I am being stubborn in my mindset about Daniels, you are probably the same. I just think it merits discussion in comparison to numbers being thrown out there. We have a whole career of Daniels and Kubiak to choose from. We also have a huge career of Manning to be excited about but there are also low points because he is smart and picks the right talent to throw to. Without an emergence of what I would argue Green, I would say the top talents are Sanders, DT, Anderson and Latimer.

They are suggesting they have something in similar means to Gronk. It is ridiculous on many different levels.

Link.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?/topic/725429-owen-daniels-signs-with-denver/page-2#entry17858447

 

[Stinkin Ref]

just for the hell of it...if redrafting today....something like this

gronk

graham

bennett

olsen

kelce

thomas

witten

gates

cameron (+/-)

clay

reed

walker

allen

fleener

ertz

rudolph

eifert

miller

davis

rodgers

asj

ebron

amaro

donnell

rivera

gresham

not counting Pitta as I don't think he plays.....whoever they (BAL) brings in I definatley think joins this party in a big way tho.....

give or take....personal preference might move some guys up/down significantly and no rooks here.....with Daniels as the pass catching TE in DEN....if drafting today....I start sniffing him in that Thomas/Witten/Gates area.....probably waiting until one or two or all of them go off the board and then I'm thinking about pulling the trigger....

65-875-9 seems reasonable and has you sniffing top 5 in PPR......

He's never, ever produced those numbers. You can't even justify the idea of those numbers. He never produced them under Kubiak and when Schaub was in his prime he had some 4,000 yd seasons. Not only that, you've completely disregarded Green. I'm even starting to theorize you're trying to use this board to puff up a guys trade value who is a fringe matchup TE at best.

who really cares what he has done or hasnt done in the past....it means absolutley nothing now.....its about talent and opportunity......period

 

[ConnSKINS26]

They are suggesting they have something in similar means to Gronk. It is ridiculous on many different levels.

Link.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?/topic/725429-owen-daniels-signs-with-denver/page-2#entry17858447

That's about what I thought. I understand where you're coming from, but false statements and hyperbole don't help your argument.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

1) I would expect that if Green falls to a platoon receiver/blocker role with Daniels the split would be close to the Dreesen/Tamme splits of 2012. Both were not rosterable.

not even close....there is no "platoon"....they each have their own roles/specialties and skill set..let you figure out what they are and what you get fantasy points for

2) A player with Green's well documented athleticism should never be disregarded especially because the situation you're fawning over for a 32 y/o TE who was an afterthoughts afterthought before this signing.

Green is an athletic blocker....a very good one.....he is not the "next man up" when the receiving TE goes down.....(see stats with Thomas out)......

3) DANIELS HAS NEVER CAUGHT 8TD's. Never, not once. Kubiak has only had a TE catch over 800 yds ONCE in his time since Houston and NEVER had a TE catch 8 TD's. Notice the correlation. Curious as to why that is.

who cares......

4) People are massively underselling Thomas as a player. Yes it was opportunity plus talent but the talent is not small to do those things. Jacob Tamme didn't do them.

not expecting JT numbers.....just that Daniels could easily finish TE5-TE10 in this offense....not sure why Tamme is being talked about

5) Finally, 32 year old TE's do not suddenly have their best season. Yes in recent years Gates and Gonzalez have broken the TE decline threshold but another well documented history is the irrelevance these guys fall into after the age of 30. They are abused more than RB's as they are asked to block 280lb DL's then go take shots over the middle of the field.

can't tell which side this is on...

My conclusion would be that most likely DT, Sanders and Latimer are the beneficiaries of JT's departure. I also expect a stronger running game with Kubiak's influence and what really started to look like a declining Peyton toward the end of last year.

There are fantasy points to be had at TE in DEN.......JT and Welker gone.....they don't all go to Latimer and I don't think Green gets may of them

 

[Bojang0301]

They are suggesting they have something in similar means to Gronk. It is ridiculous on many different levels.

Link.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?/topic/725429-owen-daniels-signs-with-denver/page-2#entry17858447

That's about what I thought. I understand where you're coming from, but false statements and hyperbole don't help your argument.

How is it a false statement? There are people in this thread suggesting top 5 TE numbers. Outside of comparing his usefulness to John Carlson I have pointed to Daniels, Kubiak's and Manning's history when I have talked numbers and roles. I am not the one disregarding an athletic TE who already has multiple seasons with Manning. I am not the one ignoring what we already know to be 26 y/o Daniels ceiling and projecting numbers that don't match that to a 32 y/o Daniels or numbers that haven't matched a Gary Kubiak offense in the last ten years. Nor have I suggested Green will be a stud and automatically replace JT. If the guys hyping Daniels as a top 5 TE and don't have anything to back it up but pointing to Manning and saying "well, uh, Peyton Manning" I see no problems with my statements. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

They are suggesting they have something in similar means to Gronk. It is ridiculous on many different levels.

Link.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?/topic/725429-owen-daniels-signs-with-denver/page-2#entry17858447

That's about what I thought. I understand where you're coming from, but false statements and hyperbole don't help your argument.

How is it a false statement? There are people in this thread suggesting top 5 TE numbers. Outside of comparing his usefulness to John Carlson I have pointed to Daniels, Kubiak's and Manning's history when I have talked numbers and roles. I am not the one disregarding an athletic TE who already has multiple seasons with Manning. I am not the one ignoring what we already know to be 26 y/o Daniels ceiling and projecting numbers that don't match that to a 32 y/o Daniels or numbers that haven't matched a Gary Kubiak offense in the last ten years. Nor have I suggested Green will be a stud and automatically replace JT. If the guys hyping Daniels as a top 5 TE and don't have anything to back it up but pointing to Manning and saying "well, uh, Peyton Manning" I see no problems with my statements. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I don't care about any of that, it all has merit but it's not what I commented on or I would have quoted it all before.

You specifically said (I quoted it right here) that people were comparing him to Gronk. That's ridiculous and just brings down the level of discourse.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

daniels is no slouch and was brought in (very quickly) for a reason......the situation sets up perfectly for possibly his best year ever.....I don't agree he was an afterthought and I think he stiill has something left.....so do the Broncos......thats all that really matters.....at that point it's up to everybody else to decide what that means fantasy wise......while many will want to see the Green resigning as some passing of the receiving TE torch in DEN....its not.....he was resigned cause he blocks like a mother ####er....I live in CO and hate the donkeys.....I'm a KC fan.....but I've watched every game and I've listened (radio, paper, Elway, etc).....it kills me to pimp DEN players.....but fact is Daniels is in line for some fantasy production.....rank him where you want.....Fox and the Bears weren't looking at Green because of his 6 receptions last year......they have Bennett......Green is the fantasy afterthought.......football player he is not an afterthought.....but we don't get fantasy points for blocking.....

 

[Bojang0301]

I'll cut down on the hyperbole I only meant that statement as Daniels shouldn't even be whispered in the top 10 of TE's, let alone 5.

To compound my argument. Dallas Clark only went over 800 yds twice and 8 TD's twice his whole heralded career with Manning. Heath Miller was the #10 TE last year in PPR with 63 720 and 3. I'm not sure when Kubiak took the OC helm in Denver but I'm guessing you'd have to go back to Sharpe and Elway before we're talking numbers significantly over that mark. Daniels is a bye week fill in tops, hell Green is probably the same but no one wants a 32 year old bye week fill in, at least not the leagues I play in. I'll take the off chance that Green can replicate JT over Daniels being able to best Heath Miller.

 

[ryno1980]

He could be a top 10 on per game basis as I'd project him to miss at least a few games.

 

[cstu]

Broncos should have traded for Graham instead of the Seahawks.

 

[cstu]

who really cares what he has done or hasnt done in the past....it means absolutley nothing now.....its about talent and opportunity......period

It was the TD's that gave Julius value and he got those because he was a physical mismatch. Daniels isn't.

 

[humpback]

They are suggesting they have something in similar means to Gronk. It is ridiculous on many different levels.

Link.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?/topic/725429-owen-daniels-signs-with-denver/page-2#entry17858447

That's about what I thought. I understand where you're coming from, but false statements and hyperbole don't help your argument.

How is it a false statement? There are people in this thread suggesting top 5 TE numbers. Outside of comparing his usefulness to John Carlson I have pointed to Daniels, Kubiak's and Manning's history when I have talked numbers and roles. I am not the one disregarding an athletic TE who already has multiple seasons with Manning. I am not the one ignoring what we already know to be 26 y/o Daniels ceiling and projecting numbers that don't match that to a 32 y/o Daniels or numbers that haven't matched a Gary Kubiak offense in the last ten years. Nor have I suggested Green will be a stud and automatically replace JT. If the guys hyping Daniels as a top 5 TE and don't have anything to back it up but pointing to Manning and saying "well, uh, Peyton Manning" I see no problems with my statements. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I don't care about any of that, it all has merit but it's not what I commented on or I would have quoted it all before.

You specifically said (I quoted it right here) that people were comparing him to Gronk. That's ridiculous and just brings down the level of discourse.

Close enough?

I'll start looking for him around TE five or six at the latest in early drafts, even though he'll be TE #2 in my personsl rankings. By the start of the season, he'll be everyone's TE #3 Or #4.

Talented pass-catching TE's don't fall into the best situation imaginable and then return end-of-draft value.

I think you threw out a projection of 60/600/6, which is perfectly reasonable- I just don't think that level of production out of a to be 33 yr old TE with injury concerns is worth much at all in a dynasty. Others are projecting him to blow away his best season ever, which would be valuable in a dynasty, but isn't a perfectly reasonable expectation.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'll cut down on the hyperbole I only meant that statement as Daniels shouldn't even be whispered in the top 10 of TE's, let alone 5.

To compound my argument. Dallas Clark only went over 800 yds twice and 8 TD's twice his whole heralded career with Manning. Heath Miller was the #10 TE last year in PPR with 63 720 and 3. I'm not sure when Kubiak took the OC helm in Denver but I'm guessing you'd have to go back to Sharpe and Elway before we're talking numbers significantly over that mark. Daniels is a bye week fill in tops, hell Green is probably the same but no one wants a 32 year old bye week fill in, at least not the leagues I play in. I'll take the off chance that Green can replicate JT over Daniels being able to best Heath Miller.

I think the second line I bolded actually works in favor of anyone saying Daniels could be a top 10 TE this year - as it isn't all that difficult of a thing to accomplish.

 

[Bojang0301]

I'll cut down on the hyperbole I only meant that statement as Daniels shouldn't even be whispered in the top 10 of TE's, let alone 5.

To compound my argument. Dallas Clark only went over 800 yds twice and 8 TD's twice his whole heralded career with Manning. Heath Miller was the #10 TE last year in PPR with 63 720 and 3. I'm not sure when Kubiak took the OC helm in Denver but I'm guessing you'd have to go back to Sharpe and Elway before we're talking numbers significantly over that mark. Daniels is a bye week fill in tops, hell Green is probably the same but no one wants a 32 year old bye week fill in, at least not the leagues I play in. I'll take the off chance that Green can replicate JT over Daniels being able to best Heath Miller.

I think the second line I bolded actually works in favor of anyone saying Daniels could be a top 10 TE this year - as it isn't all that difficult of a thing to accomplish.

When you take into account Reed being hurt, Davis slumping and the potential for Amaro to emerge I still think it's outlandish.

 

[nightmare]

This is the whole point- TE6 to TE12 changes from year to year. It could be 15 different

guys. I'll take the flyer on the guy that in 2012 went 716/6 with the QB(Schaub) who only

threw for 4008/22.

I don't expect Gronk type moves in the red zone. I think he can be a good target at the

goal line. Veteran QB trusts veteran TE to find the open spot.

 

[Freelove]

Remains my TE #2 for the time being. I see nothing out of Denver news to suggest he's anything but a mortal lock to get virtually all the important receiving looks at TE. He's a wily vet with a nice pass-catching skill set locked in to become Peyton's upfield security blanket and red zone buddy.

I think these 600/6 projections are insane. Barring catastrophic injury, I'd make that his absolute floor. I'm certainly not drafting him as the second TE off the board, but it's nice believing you can count on a guy who you rank like that to tumble a bit on draft day. Still happy to reach and profit while others wonder why I'm taking him instead of the Ertzes, Camerons, Julius Thomases, et al.

 

[georg013]

Remains my TE #2 for the time being. I see nothing out of Denver news to suggest he's anything but a mortal lock to get virtually all the important receiving looks at TE. He's a wily vet with a nice pass-catching skill set locked in to become Peyton's upfield security blanket and red zone buddy.

I think these 600/6 projections are insane. Barring catastrophic injury, I'd make that his absolute floor. I'm certainly not drafting him as the second TE off the board, but it's nice believing you can count on a guy who you rank like that to tumble a bit on draft day. Still happy to reach and profit while others wonder why I'm taking him instead of the Ertzes, Camerons, Julius Thomases, et al.

I am pretty high on Daniels this season BUT.... I would prefer Ertz and Cameron over him (talking both dynasty and redraft). Salt shakers are extremely low on him. He is the one player who knows Kubiak's system. In fact, it's all he knows. He will put on a show this season and it will be too late to buy low. Especially with DT spending so much time away from his new playbook.

 

[cockroach]

1) I would expect that if Green falls to a platoon receiver/blocker role with Daniels the split would be close to the Dreesen/Tamme splits of 2012. Both were not rosterable.

not even close....there is no "platoon"....they each have their own roles/specialties and skill set..let you figure out what they are and what you get fantasy points for

2) A player with Green's well documented athleticism should never be disregarded especially because the situation you're fawning over for a 32 y/o TE who was an afterthoughts afterthought before this signing.

Green is an athletic blocker....a very good one.....he is not the "next man up" when the receiving TE goes down.....(see stats with Thomas out)......

3) DANIELS HAS NEVER CAUGHT 8TD's. Never, not once. Kubiak has only had a TE catch over 800 yds ONCE in his time since Houston and NEVER had a TE catch 8 TD's. Notice the correlation. Curious as to why that is.

who cares......

4) People are massively underselling Thomas as a player. Yes it was opportunity plus talent but the talent is not small to do those things. Jacob Tamme didn't do them.

not expecting JT numbers.....just that Daniels could easily finish TE5-TE10 in this offense....not sure why Tamme is being talked about

5) Finally, 32 year old TE's do not suddenly have their best season. Yes in recent years Gates and Gonzalez have broken the TE decline threshold but another well documented history is the irrelevance these guys fall into after the age of 30. They are abused more than RB's as they are asked to block 280lb DL's then go take shots over the middle of the field.

can't tell which side this is on...

My conclusion would be that most likely DT, Sanders and Latimer are the beneficiaries of JT's departure. I also expect a stronger running game with Kubiak's influence and what really started to look like a declining Peyton toward the end of last year.

There are fantasy points to be had at TE in DEN.......JT and Welker gone.....they don't all go to Latimer and I don't think Green gets may of them

It's difficutlt to tell there are actually two posts there, but hte guy named Stinkin Ref was responding saying Green is only a blocking TE. Well sir, that just isn't true. When Green came into the league he was known as just the opposite... here's the first line from his combine report on NFL.com: " Green's an undersized, athletic, pass-catching tight end / H-back with big-play potential who doesn't bring much to the table as a blocker."

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

So Green came into the league as a pass catcher and has worked and developed as a blocker to the point where we don't even recognize him for his other talents anymore. That is a guy I would watch out for.

 

[humpback]

:X

 

[humpback]

Too soon?

 

[Bojang0301]

1) I would expect that if Green falls to a platoon receiver/blocker role with Daniels the split would be close to the Dreesen/Tamme splits of 2012. Both were not rosterable.

2) A player with Green's well documented athleticism should never be disregarded especially because the situation you're fawning over for a 32 y/o TE who was an afterthoughts afterthought before this signing.

3) DANIELS HAS NEVER CAUGHT 8TD's. Never, not once. Kubiak has only had a TE catch over 800 yds ONCE in his time since Houston and NEVER had a TE catch 8 TD's. Notice the correlation. Curious as to why that is.

4) People are massively underselling Thomas as a player. Yes it was opportunity plus talent but the talent is not small to do those things. Jacob Tamme didn't do them.

5) Finally, 32 year old TE's do not suddenly have their best season. Yes in recent years Gates and Gonzalez have broken the TE decline threshold but another well documented history is the irrelevance these guys fall into after the age of 30. They are abused more than RB's as they are asked to block 280lb DL's then go take shots over the middle of the field.

My conclusion would be that most likely DT, Sanders and Latimer are the beneficiaries of JT's departure. I also expect a stronger running game with Kubiak's influence and what really started to look like a declining Peyton toward the end of last year.

So far looks like this was hitting the nail on the head. There was a historic precedent set here and it was ignored. Peyton is surviving off of his intelligence now that he has begun his inevitable decline. Kubiak's offenses don't do much to highlight the TE. I did have some moderate hopes for Green but it looks like the Tamme/Dressen combo comparison was also right.