Owens takes a shot at McNabb (1 Viewer)

[Family Matters]

1. TO fires agent and hires Drew. No one is better connected to GM's then Drew. Further, he already knows who wants him what they're willing to pay to get him. While these back door discussions are not suppose to be allowed it does happen. Something like: Drew speaking: "So Mr. GM, speaking hypothetically, what 1 WR would you ne willing to pay a ton for?" GM speaking:" The only one I'd mortgage the team for is TO."

You obviously have not been following this story closely at all

2. TO demands a new deal knowing Philly won't do it. Knowing full well he was advised against it last year. How can he get out of this? What would motivate Philly to let him out of his contract? Insult McNabb should do it.

You obviously dont know TO very well

3. TO fires a shot over the bow of McNabbs ego. McNabb tells Reid & Co. this guy can no longer be trusted and he's become a cancer to the team. And I refuse to throw him the damn ball.

Now you are off your rocker

Now Philly is between a rock and a hard place. They can'y cave in and lose control of their contracts with all their players. They can't let TO remain on the team and destroy team chemistry.

Now you are acting like an idiot. For the 789563784623 time, a TO contract renegotiation is in EVERYONES best interest!!! TO obviously is not going about it in the way Phi may want, but the media has eaten up TO hiring Drew as his agent. Do you know the NFL is trying to take away David Joesph's agent license? Do you know Drew represents many Eagles including Kearse, Simon, Westbrook, etc?Phi made TOs contract so that they could cut him after 2 seasons if he hasnt worked out. After 1 season, he has been stellar and EVERYONE wants TO in Philly, yes even McNabb! TO is due 7.5 million in 2006. Philly doesnt want to have to shell out that sort of money next season when TO is in Philly.

If there is fault to be said, it is Phi FO. Phi FO has never talked contract renegotiation and taked a hard line with players who want to. However, the Phi FO put this contract in place knowing that it would need a renegotation at some point. I find it laughable that the only number anyone can talk about is TO and his 49 million dollar contract. Anyone know how much he has received up to this point?

I dont have a problem with people not liking TO. I can handle that. I cant handle incorrect facts and the horrible speculation about his agent and contract situation.

JAA

Fell free to disagree but I did not find anything in your posts that could substantiate this is offbase.

Facts and logical thought process?

Well I'll give you the logical thought process, if there is any in his scenario but facts? What facts do we have that tell us what TO's intentions were/are? Outside of the contract he has and what he's said to the media, everything else is speculative. But that's what makes this conversation fun. We get to take what we want from it until something happens otherwise.

 

[Otis]

Here's an important fact most are missing - T.O. is the best football player on that team, and was the only guy to come through and show any heart when it was all on the line in the super bowl.No matter how you slice it, he is the guy you want lining up for you in the Super Bowl next year, and the Eagles organization is (hopefully) smart enough to know that. Public comments, contract negotiations, holdouts -- none of it means jack in that last game of the season.

 

[Chaka]

T.O. is the best football player on that team, and was the only guy to come through and show any heart when it was all on the line in the super bowl.

The best? I strongly disagree. If I'm building a franchise I do it around that guy who gets T.O. the ball. You know the one who led them to four consecutive NFC championship games and one Super Bowl without T.O. in the lineup. That Donovan guy, I heard he's pretty good.Anyone else think T.O. is better than Donovan? Heck I could make arguments that Westbrook, Jevon, Sheppard & Dawkins are all just as important as T.O. but all of those guys are replacable, they cannot replace Donovan.

 

[Family Matters]

T.O. is the best football player on that team, and was the only guy to come through and show any heart when it was all on the line in the super bowl.

The best? I strongly disagree. If I'm building a franchise I do it around that guy who gets T.O. the ball. You know the one who led them to four consecutive NFC championship games and one Super Bowl without T.O. in the lineup. That Donovan guy, I heard he's pretty good.Anyone else think T.O. is better than Donovan? Heck I could make arguments that Westbrook, Jevon, Sheppard & Dawkins are all just as important as T.O. but all of those guys are replacable, they cannot replace Donovan.

I'm split on this one but I will say I think TO is the #1 or 2 best WR in the league. McNabb who rank about #3 for me which is saying something. I will also say of importance to the team I yhink to start with McNabb and then TO but right there with them is Westbrook. People underestinate Westbrook's valie to what this team does. Many people give credit to TO for Philly getting to the SB. I think Westbrook had just as much if not more to do with it. Had Westbrook not been injured the year before, Philly likely would of been in the SB.Hijack: Reid doen not use Westbrook enough. If he used him more in the running game they might have won the SB. :endofhikack:

Carry on.

 

[Otis]

T.O. is the best football player on that team, and was the only guy to come through and show any heart when it was all on the line in the super bowl.

The best? I strongly disagree. If I'm building a franchise I do it around that guy who gets T.O. the ball. You know the one who led them to four consecutive NFC championship games and one Super Bowl without T.O. in the lineup. That Donovan guy, I heard he's pretty good.Anyone else think T.O. is better than Donovan? Heck I could make arguments that Westbrook, Jevon, Sheppard & Dawkins are all just as important as T.O. but all of those guys are replacable, they cannot replace Donovan.

I'm split on this one but I will say I think TO is the #1 or 2 best WR in the league. McNabb who rank about #3 for me which is saying something. I will also say of importance to the team I yhink to start with McNabb and then TO but right there with them is Westbrook. People underestinate Westbrook's valie to what this team does. Many people give credit to TO for Philly getting to the SB. I think Westbrook had just as much if not more to do with it. Had Westbrook not been injured the year before, Philly likely would of been in the SB.Hijack: Reid doen not use Westbrook enough. If he used him more in the running game they might have won the SB. :endofhikack:

Carry on.

You are both having different conversations from the one I started.I didn't say anything about value to the team, or the guy you would want to build a franchise around. What I said was also proven during the Super Bowl.

Like him or not, T.O. is the best football player on that team.

 

[Chaka]

You are both having different conversations from the one I started.I didn't say anything about value to the team, or the guy you would want to build a franchise around. What I said was also proven during the Super Bowl. Like him or not, T.O. is the best football player on that team.

I don't read that at all and I still disagree. Donovan is the best player on that team. T.O. is a helluva player and was very impressive in the Super Bowl, being covered by guys like Earthwind Moreland and Troy Brown btw, but Donovan is the best player on that team. Best player, best value, the one you build the franchise around it's all the same thing and it's all Donovan.

 

[zoonation]

But I still don't think he is being disruptive, just stupid in what he says in public.

Saying stupid things in public is disruptive. Its not the first time he's dissed his QB in public and when we say TO comes with "baggage," stupid public statements are probably the heaviest piece of luggage in the set.

You haven't a clue what you're talking about. As if you would have any idea what the players in the 'locker room', that so many seem to have such great insight into, think. The Eagles have to win the superbowl and win it now. It doesn't happen without TO (and may not with him, for sure...but definitely forget it without him) No rookie WR is going to come in and replace a TD per game average, and if TO is gone, watch for the stunted Eagle offense of old to fall short before the bowl again...as I think it will take a little more to get back to the dance next year.

The comment isn't even bad; just fodder for TO-hater appetites that were left un-quenched after that performance in the superbowl. besides, it is totally true. McNabb stunk worse than the hotel accomodations in Jacksonville.

Just please stop pretending that you know what the 'effects' of the comments really mean. The truth is you don't know jack.

I predict if they let TO get away, the Philly fans will riot.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Like him or not, T.O. is the best football player on that team.

I don't read that at all and I still disagree. Donovan is the best player on that team. T.O. is a helluva player and was very impressive in the Super Bowl, being covered by guys like Earthwind Moreland and Troy Brown btw, but Donovan is the best player on that team. Best player, best value, the one you build the franchise around it's all the same thing and it's all Donovan.
Perhaps this is a question of semantics. Is a good QB the most important player on the field? Meaning, perhaps Owens is a better athelete than McNabb. But isn't it arguable that McNabb would be much harder to replace than Owens?

 

[Chaka]

You haven't a clue what you're talking about. As if you would have any idea what the players in the 'locker room', that so many seem to have such great insight into, think.

The Eagles have to win the superbowl and win it now. It doesn't happen without TO (and may not with him, for sure...but definitely forget it without him) No rookie WR is going to come in and replace a TD per game average, and if TO is gone, watch for the stunted Eagle offense of old to fall short before the bowl again...as I think it will take a little more to get back to the dance next year.

Just please stop pretending that you know what the 'effects' of the comments really mean. The truth is you don't know jack.

I predict if they let TO get away, the Philly fans will riot.

So long as you agree that you don't know jack about the effect of these comments either then it's all good. But since you don't know jack either then you can't say that they are not a big deal now can you?But you are correct, even if you did not say it as such, once they lace them up it will be water under the bridge. But if the comments are a problem at all now and things go wrong during the season then you have a situation on your hands that could easily derail a contending team. T.O. can be a petulant child and if the ship starts sinking he has proven capable of taking everyone with him.

And if the Eagles were good enough to get to four straight championship games without T.O. then why wont they be able to do at least that without him again?

 

[JAA]

1. TO fires agent and hires Drew. No one is better connected to GM's then Drew. Further, he already knows who wants him what they're willing to pay to get him. While these back door discussions are not suppose to be allowed it does happen. Something like: Drew speaking: "So Mr. GM, speaking hypothetically, what 1 WR would you ne willing to pay a ton for?" GM speaking:" The only one I'd mortgage the team for is TO."

You obviously have not been following this story closely at all

2. TO demands a new deal knowing Philly won't do it. Knowing full well he was advised against it last year. How can he get out of this? What would motivate Philly to let him out of his contract? Insult McNabb should do it.

You obviously dont know TO very well

3. TO fires a shot over the bow of McNabbs ego. McNabb tells Reid & Co. this guy can no longer be trusted and he's become a cancer to the team. And I refuse to throw him the damn ball.

Now you are off your rocker

Now Philly is between a rock and a hard place. They can'y cave in and lose control of their contracts with all their players. They can't let TO remain on the team and destroy team chemistry.

Now you are acting like an idiot. For the 789563784623 time, a TO contract renegotiation is in EVERYONES best interest!!! TO obviously is not going about it in the way Phi may want, but the media has eaten up TO hiring Drew as his agent. Do you know the NFL is trying to take away David Joesph's agent license? Do you know Drew represents many Eagles including Kearse, Simon, Westbrook, etc?Phi made TOs contract so that they could cut him after 2 seasons if he hasnt worked out. After 1 season, he has been stellar and EVERYONE wants TO in Philly, yes even McNabb! TO is due 7.5 million in 2006. Philly doesnt want to have to shell out that sort of money next season when TO is in Philly.

If there is fault to be said, it is Phi FO. Phi FO has never talked contract renegotiation and taked a hard line with players who want to. However, the Phi FO put this contract in place knowing that it would need a renegotation at some point. I find it laughable that the only number anyone can talk about is TO and his 49 million dollar contract. Anyone know how much he has received up to this point?

I dont have a problem with people not liking TO. I can handle that. I cant handle incorrect facts and the horrible speculation about his agent and contract situation.

JAA

Fell free to disagree but I did not find anything in your posts that could substantiate this is offbase.

Facts and logical thought process?

Well I'll give you the logical thought process, if there is any in his scenario but facts? What facts do we have that tell us what TO's intentions were/are? Outside of the contract he has and what he's said to the media, everything else is speculative. But that's what makes this conversation fun. We get to take what we want from it until something happens otherwise.

Dont you know why the media loves TO and the NFL team's FO hate him? It is he tells the truth and wears his emotions on his sleeve. You should check out his book which discusses his relationship with Jerry Rice. It really is a great read.

 

[Family Matters]

1. TO fires agent and hires Drew. No one is better connected to GM's then Drew. Further, he already knows who wants him what they're willing to pay to get him. While these back door discussions are not suppose to be allowed it does happen. Something like: Drew speaking: "So Mr. GM, speaking hypothetically, what 1 WR would you ne willing to pay a ton for?" GM speaking:" The only one I'd mortgage the team for is TO."

You obviously have not been following this story closely at all

2. TO demands a new deal knowing Philly won't do it. Knowing full well he was advised against it last year. How can he get out of this? What would motivate Philly to let him out of his contract? Insult McNabb should do it.

You obviously dont know TO very well

3. TO fires a shot over the bow of McNabbs ego. McNabb tells Reid & Co. this guy can no longer be trusted and he's become a cancer to the team. And I refuse to throw him the damn ball.

Now you are off your rocker

Now Philly is between a rock and a hard place. They can'y cave in and lose control of their contracts with all their players. They can't let TO remain on the team and destroy team chemistry.

Now you are acting like an idiot. For the 789563784623 time, a TO contract renegotiation is in EVERYONES best interest!!! TO obviously is not going about it in the way Phi may want, but the media has eaten up TO hiring Drew as his agent. Do you know the NFL is trying to take away David Joesph's agent license? Do you know Drew represents many Eagles including Kearse, Simon, Westbrook, etc?Phi made TOs contract so that they could cut him after 2 seasons if he hasnt worked out. After 1 season, he has been stellar and EVERYONE wants TO in Philly, yes even McNabb! TO is due 7.5 million in 2006. Philly doesnt want to have to shell out that sort of money next season when TO is in Philly.

If there is fault to be said, it is Phi FO. Phi FO has never talked contract renegotiation and taked a hard line with players who want to. However, the Phi FO put this contract in place knowing that it would need a renegotation at some point. I find it laughable that the only number anyone can talk about is TO and his 49 million dollar contract. Anyone know how much he has received up to this point?

I dont have a problem with people not liking TO. I can handle that. I cant handle incorrect facts and the horrible speculation about his agent and contract situation.

JAA

Fell free to disagree but I did not find anything in your posts that could substantiate this is offbase.

Facts and logical thought process?

Well I'll give you the logical thought process, if there is any in his scenario but facts? What facts do we have that tell us what TO's intentions were/are? Outside of the contract he has and what he's said to the media, everything else is speculative. But that's what makes this conversation fun. We get to take what we want from it until something happens otherwise.

Dont you know why the media loves TO and the NFL team's FO hate him? It is he tells the truth and wears his emotions on his sleeve. You should check out his book which discusses his relationship with Jerry Rice. It really is a great read.

Another one JAA can debate with:http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...ss/050418&num=0

 

[Eagle Eye]

But I still don't think he is being disruptive, just stupid in what he says in public.

Saying stupid things in public is disruptive. Its not the first time he's dissed his QB in public and when we say TO comes with "baggage," stupid public statements are probably the heaviest piece of luggage in the set.

You haven't a clue what you're talking about. As if you would have any idea what the players in the 'locker room', that so many seem to have such great insight into, think. Just please stop pretending that you know what the 'effects' of the comments really mean. The truth is you don't know jack.

They're people. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or hangin in the 'locker room' to understand that no one likes to get dissed in public. He's done it before and unfortunatly he's got a problem with running his mouth, whatever the 'effects' may be.See, I did it again.

P.S. WTF is that with the 'quote' thing you got going on there?

 

[JAA]

1. TO fires agent and hires Drew. No one is better connected to GM's then Drew. Further, he already knows who wants him what they're willing to pay to get him. While these back door discussions are not suppose to be allowed it does happen. Something like: Drew speaking: "So Mr. GM, speaking hypothetically, what 1 WR would you ne willing to pay a ton for?" GM speaking:" The only one I'd mortgage the team for is TO."

You obviously have not been following this story closely at all

2. TO demands a new deal knowing Philly won't do it. Knowing full well he was advised against it last year. How can he get out of this? What would motivate Philly to let him out of his contract? Insult McNabb should do it.

You obviously dont know TO very well

3. TO fires a shot over the bow of McNabbs ego. McNabb tells Reid & Co. this guy can no longer be trusted and he's become a cancer to the team. And I refuse to throw him the damn ball.

Now you are off your rocker

Now Philly is between a rock and a hard place. They can'y cave in and lose control of their contracts with all their players. They can't let TO remain on the team and destroy team chemistry.

Now you are acting like an idiot. For the 789563784623 time, a TO contract renegotiation is in EVERYONES best interest!!! TO obviously is not going about it in the way Phi may want, but the media has eaten up TO hiring Drew as his agent. Do you know the NFL is trying to take away David Joesph's agent license? Do you know Drew represents many Eagles including Kearse, Simon, Westbrook, etc?Phi made TOs contract so that they could cut him after 2 seasons if he hasnt worked out. After 1 season, he has been stellar and EVERYONE wants TO in Philly, yes even McNabb! TO is due 7.5 million in 2006. Philly doesnt want to have to shell out that sort of money next season when TO is in Philly.

If there is fault to be said, it is Phi FO. Phi FO has never talked contract renegotiation and taked a hard line with players who want to. However, the Phi FO put this contract in place knowing that it would need a renegotation at some point. I find it laughable that the only number anyone can talk about is TO and his 49 million dollar contract. Anyone know how much he has received up to this point?

I dont have a problem with people not liking TO. I can handle that. I cant handle incorrect facts and the horrible speculation about his agent and contract situation.

JAA

Fell free to disagree but I did not find anything in your posts that could substantiate this is offbase.

Facts and logical thought process?

Well I'll give you the logical thought process, if there is any in his scenario but facts? What facts do we have that tell us what TO's intentions were/are? Outside of the contract he has and what he's said to the media, everything else is speculative. But that's what makes this conversation fun. We get to take what we want from it until something happens otherwise.

Dont you know why the media loves TO and the NFL team's FO hate him? It is he tells the truth and wears his emotions on his sleeve. You should check out his book which discusses his relationship with Jerry Rice. It really is a great read.

Another one JAA can debate with:http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...ss/050418&num=0

No ESPN at work, can you paste?Thanks,

JAA

 

[Otis]

Perhaps this is a question of semantics. Is a good QB the most important player on the field? Meaning, perhaps Owens is a better athelete than McNabb. But isn't it arguable that McNabb would be much harder to replace than Owens?

It's not a question of semantics at all. I didn't say T.O. was the best athlete on the team, or the hardest guy to replace, but for what he does on the football field, everything from blocking, to drawing coverage, to making monstrous plays at critical moments, to getting the job done better than anyone else there, T.O. is the best football player on that team. End of discussion.

 

[Chaka]

I didn't say T.O. was the best athlete on the team, or the hardest guy to replace, but for what he does on the football field, everything from blocking, to drawing coverage, to making monstrous plays at critical moments, to getting the job done better than anyone else there, T.O. is the best football player on that team. End of discussion.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I see T.O. as one helluvan athlete and one helluva football player but in both categories he is a distant second to McNabb on that team. The Iggles did not do anything with T.O. that they did not do without T.O.. I would like to see them accomplish the same things with Koy Detmer instead of McNabb.Would not happen. How is that for an end of discussion?

 

[JAA]

I didn't say T.O. was the best athlete on the team, or the hardest guy to replace, but for what he does on the football field, everything from blocking, to drawing coverage, to making monstrous plays at critical moments, to getting the job done better than anyone else there, T.O. is the best football player on that team.  End of discussion.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I see T.O. as one helluvan athlete and one helluva football player but in both categories he is a distant second to McNabb on that team. The Iggles did not do anything with T.O. that they did not do without T.O.. I would like to see them accomplish the same things with Koy Detmer instead of McNabb.Would not happen. How is that for an end of discussion?

Do you remember the 2003 season?

 

[Chaka]

I didn't say T.O. was the best athlete on the team, or the hardest guy to replace, but for what he does on the football field, everything from blocking, to drawing coverage, to making monstrous plays at critical moments, to getting the job done better than anyone else there, T.O. is the best football player on that team.  End of discussion.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I see T.O. as one helluvan athlete and one helluva football player but in both categories he is a distant second to McNabb on that team. The Iggles did not do anything with T.O. that they did not do without T.O.. I would like to see them accomplish the same things with Koy Detmer instead of McNabb.Would not happen. How is that for an end of discussion?

Do you remember the 2003 season?

Yes. The Iggles lost the NFC championship game to Carolina. Your point?

 

[jdoggydogg]

It's not a question of semantics at all. I didn't say T.O. was the best athlete on the team, or the hardest guy to replace, but for what he does on the football field, everything from blocking, to drawing coverage, to making monstrous plays at critical moments, to getting the job done better than anyone else there, T.O. is the best football player on that team. End of discussion.

I don't neccesarily disagree. I suppose that even if we agree that Owens is Philly's best football player, does that make him worth the hassle? I think Philly can get a lesser (but talented) WR and still have a good shot at a Super Bowl victory.

 

[JAA]

I didn't say T.O. was the best athlete on the team, or the hardest guy to replace, but for what he does on the football field, everything from blocking, to drawing coverage, to making monstrous plays at critical moments, to getting the job done better than anyone else there, T.O. is the best football player on that team.  End of discussion.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I see T.O. as one helluvan athlete and one helluva football player but in both categories he is a distant second to McNabb on that team. The Iggles did not do anything with T.O. that they did not do without T.O.. I would like to see them accomplish the same things with Koy Detmer instead of McNabb.Would not happen. How is that for an end of discussion?

Do you remember the 2002 season?

Yes. The Iggles lost the NFC championship game to Carolina. Your point?

I had the wrong year, want to try again?

 

[Chaka]

I had the wrong year, want to try again?

Not really. Make your point if you have one. I am not a freaking mind reader.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Not really. Make your point if you have one. I am not a freaking mind reader.

He shoots and he SCORES!

 

[JAA]

I had the wrong year, want to try again?

Not really. Make your point if you have one. I am not a freaking mind reader.

McNabb was injured in the 2002 season and the team did everything the same w/o him.Thanks for playing,

JAA

 

[Chaka]

I had the wrong year, want to try again?

Not really. Make your point if you have one. I am not a freaking mind reader.

McNabb was injured in the 2002 season and the team did everything the same w/o him.Thanks for playing,

JAA

Did they get to the NFC Championship game without McNabb? You're the historian so that must be a rhetorical question.The thing I don't understand is that you had to know that was coming but you decided to play anyway.

You can pick up your kewpie doll at the exit.

Booby prize

 

[Snotbubbles]

McNabb was injured in the 2002 season and the team did everything the same w/o him.Thanks for playing,JAA

JAA,I respect your knowledge on the Eagles, but even you can't believe that statement. The reason the Eagles continued to win games w/o McNabb was because of their defense.With McNabb the Birds scored 27.1/gm and the Defense allowed 16.7/gmWithout McNabb the Birds scored 23.8/gm and the Defense allowed 12.3/gm.And those figures don't even take into account the defensive scores. Like the 10-3 game vs. STL where Bobby Taylor scored the only TD on an INT.

 

[JAA]

McNabb was injured in the 2002 season and the team did everything the same w/o him.

Thanks for playing,

JAA

JAA,I respect your knowledge on the Eagles, but even you can't believe that statement. The reason the Eagles continued to win games w/o McNabb was because of their defense.

With McNabb the Birds scored 27.1/gm and the Defense allowed 16.7/gm

Without McNabb the Birds scored 23.8/gm and the Defense allowed 12.3/gm.

And those figures don't even take into account the defensive scores. Like the 10-3 game vs. STL where Bobby Taylor scored the only TD on an INT.

Here is his original premise that I debunked (whether or not he chooses to agree with me):

I didn't say T.O. was the best athlete on the team, or the hardest guy to replace, but for what he does on the football field, everything from blocking, to drawing coverage, to making monstrous plays at critical moments, to getting the job done better than anyone else there, T.O. is the best football player on that team. End of discussion.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I see T.O. as one helluvan athlete and one helluva football player but in both categories he is a distant second to McNabb on that team. The Iggles did not do anything with T.O. that they did not do without T.O.. I would like to see them accomplish the same things with Koy Detmer instead of McNabb.Would not happen. How is that for an end of discussion?

JAA

 

[Chaka]

McNabb was injured in the 2002 season and the team did everything the same w/o him.

Thanks for playing,

JAA

JAA,I respect your knowledge on the Eagles, but even you can't believe that statement. The reason the Eagles continued to win games w/o McNabb was because of their defense.

With McNabb the Birds scored 27.1/gm and the Defense allowed 16.7/gm

Without McNabb the Birds scored 23.8/gm and the Defense allowed 12.3/gm.

And those figures don't even take into account the defensive scores. Like the 10-3 game vs. STL where Bobby Taylor scored the only TD on an INT.

Here is his original premise that I debunked (whether or not he chooses to agree with me):

I didn't say T.O. was the best athlete on the team, or the hardest guy to replace, but for what he does on the football field, everything from blocking, to drawing coverage, to making monstrous plays at critical moments, to getting the job done better than anyone else there, T.O. is the best football player on that team.  End of discussion.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I see T.O. as one helluvan athlete and one helluva football player but in both categories he is a distant second to McNabb on that team. The Iggles did not do anything with T.O. that they did not do without T.O.. I would like to see them accomplish the same things with Koy Detmer instead of McNabb.Would not happen. How is that for an end of discussion?

JAA

Okay JAA I am going to stop the shtick for a minute because it occurs to me that you may actually be serious. The Eagles have gone 53-21 in the regular season and 7-5 in the playoffs including 4 NFC championship games. With McNabb in the starting lineup.

And the Eagles have gone 5-2 (no playoff games) against teams with a 54-58 overall record in the seven games they have played without McNabb.

Based on sample size alone at first glance I would say these do not compare, at second glance too, but I wanted to be fair so I looked deeper into the numbers and since McNabb took over as the starter in the 73 regular season games he has started the Eagles have faced teams with a combined record of 457-503 (0.476). Without knowing this info for the 31 other teams I have to say this sounds not very impressive. In fact only in 2001 did they face teams with a combined winning percentage over 0.500 (97-95).

I would like to see these numbers for the rest of the league since 2000.

So I will tell you what JAA, I still believe that McNabb is the best athlete, player and most valuable to that team (and I still think that is not possible to argue against) but I am not nearly as impressed as I was before we started this and I acknowledge that, while I don't think they would have gone near 53-21 or made 4 NFC championship games without McNabb, the Eagles probably still would have been pretty darn good.