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***Paris 2024 Summer Olympics: July 26-August 11*** USA dominates medal count; Finish tied w/ China for most golds - See ya in Milan 2026! (1 Viewer)

But for sure, Ledecky and Phepls are two of the faces of US Swimming's Mt. Rushmore.

Others off the top of my head....

Mark Spitz
Matt Biondi

Maybe Janet Evans who was almost an earlier version of Ledecky.
 
But for sure, Ledecky and Phepls are two of the faces of US Swimming's Mt. Rushmore.

Others off the top of my head....

Mark Spitz
Matt Biondi

Maybe Janet Evans who was almost an earlier version of Ledecky.
Don’t forget Ryan Lochte. He took one for the team in Rio :lol:
 
I liked the commercials during the 800 final. Real classy. :bored:

I'm so puzzled by the Olympic coverage in the evenings. It starts off with Mike Tirico saying "Tonight's commercial free airing of the Olympics is courtesy of Toyota" and then there's like 8 billion commercials for things other than Toyota. Am I mis-hearing Tirico (who I usually ignore outright) or am I being trolled?
It was the same during the opening ceremonies. WTF does that mean?
 
Also wondering how much an effect this shallow pool is having on our squad. I mean, it's the same handicap for all but US trains in optimal conditions
Why does this matter? More turbulent because of waves bouncing off the bottom? Something like that? What does that really do in the grand scheme of things as to why that would matter vs your "optimal" training conditions?

Here's an article I just read discussing it - as you can see, there are different opinions on this, but the one I'm leaning towards is that the shallow pool here is creating 'choppy' water, which is going to have a negative effect on all swimmers, which is what we're seeing this Olympics. As you can read from the opening paragraph, swimmers who are at their peak and trained their entire careers for this opportunity aren't setting PRs - and that's very unusual.

NANTERRE, France - A strange thing happened in the final of the women’s 400-meter freestyle Saturday night at the Paris Olympics, an event billed as a potential “Race of the Century” for the collection of swimming royalty that would be gathered across the eight lanes at Paris La Defense Arena: Only one of the finalists, the eventual fifth-place finisher, managed to lower her own personal-best time - a stunning result at a meet for which all swimmers expend every ounce of energy trying to hit their peak.

The other seven women - a list that included the past three world record holders, Ariarne Titmus, Summer McIntosh and Katie Ledecky - finished an average of more than 1½ seconds behind their personal bests. A race that began with visions of a world record or even an Olympic record landed with something of a thud: Titmus beating McIntosh by nearly a second, both of them more than two seconds off their bests.

That head-scratching scenario has played out over and over across the first four nights of the Paris 2024 swim meet, as some slower-than-expected winning times has focused attention on one possible culprit: the shallower-than-normal pool constructed atop the floor of an indoor stadium that typically hosts the rugby team Racing 92.

In the men’s 100-meter breaststroke, for example, the winning time of 59.02 seconds by Italy’s Nicolo Martinenghi was the slowest in an Olympics since 2004, and would have been good enough for just eighth place three years ago at the Tokyo Games.

“It has to be a slow pool,” said veteran Australian sprinter Kyle Chalmers, a seven-time Olympic medalist, with the most recent of those a relay silver Saturday night. That opinion has been echoed frequently during the Paris meet, and so has Chalmers’s kicker: “But … everyone has the same opportunity. Everyone has a lane, so we’re all swimming in the same pool.”

That the Paris pool is shallower than at past Olympics is indisputable. Built this spring, it is 2.15 meters (about 7 feet, 6 inches) deep, safely above the minimum of two meters, but well shy of the standard three-meter depth of the past four Olympics and other international championships, as well as the U.S. Olympic trials.

There are several reasons for the change, including structural concerns at the stadium; the desire to avoid losing additional ticketed seating (the higher up you build the pool, the more rows of lower-bowl seats must be removed); and the fact artistic swimming, which actually does require a depth of three meters, is at another venue.

“I know that people talk about the fact that if the pool is deeper, the performances are better,” Roberto Colletto, the CEO of Italian company Myrtha Pools, which built the Paris pool, told French broadcaster RMC Sport. “But … on the technical side, there is no problem with the pool.”

The physics of moving water are also clear: waves, such as those created by a diving, kicking, thrashing swimmer, emanate outward, and in a shallower pool those waves are quicker to bounce off the bottom and return to the surface, creating turbulence - or a “choppy” surface that is less conducive to world-class swimming.

Many observers have cited a spate of disappointing winning times to advance the “slow pool” theory.


Of the first 12 medal events contested here, nine have seen the gold medal-winner clock a slower time than in the corresponding race at last summer’s world championships in Fukuoka, Japan, the most recent international championship meet. Looking back to the Tokyo Olympics three years ago, six of the 12 Paris 2024 winning times have been slower, while five have been faster and one was a dead tie.

But the “slow pool” theory does not hold up as well when one looks beyond the winning times. In fact, it appears a bit, ahem, shallow.

When you consider the times it has taken to earn a spot in the finals in Paris - which is to say, the eighth-place times from either preliminary heats (in events 400 meters or longer) or semifinals - those times have been faster than in Fukuoka in 10 of the 12 events and faster than in Tokyo in five of 12. In the women’s 400 free, for example, it took a time of 4 minutes, 03.83 seconds to make it into the final, faster than in either Fukuoka (4:04.98) or Tokyo (4:04.07).

Almost as soon as the slow-pool theory started spreading around the Paris swim deck, the backlash kicked in. Rowdy Gaines, NBC’s swimming analyst and a three-time Olympic gold medalist, said he thinks the pool is “probably a little slow” but believes a bigger problem is the collective psychological effect of such talk, which becomes a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

“Once the complaints start, it’s like wildfire, and an avalanche of negativity starts and you can’t stop this boulder [from] going down the mountain.” Gaines said in a text message exchange. “I think a lot of it is much ado about nothing.”

That viewpoint was echoed by French distance freestyler David Aubry, who told RMC Sport, “It’s psychological. The first ones who swam don’t have exceptional times, so we think that the pool swims less quickly, but all the pools are the same. It’s an approved pool, [and] we’re at the Olympic Games, so I don’t believe it.”

Other athletes have pointed to additional, nonaquatic factors that could be having a negative effect on times here, such as the highly scrutinized issues with accommodations, transportation and nutrition in the Olympic Village.

“Living in the Olympic Village makes it hard to perform,” Australia’s Titmus said Sunday. “It’s definitely not made for high performance.” Her teammate, Elijah Winnington, agreed, telling Australian reporters, “There’s no pressure quite like the Olympics, but also the environment just doesn’t really permit for it. You’re walking way more in the village; the food’s not what you are normally used to; and the bus rides are longer.”

Whatever the reason, the nine-day Paris 2024 swim went into its fourth night Tuesday having yet to produce a world record. By comparison, there were six world records set in Tokyo and a whopping eight in Rio de Janeiro in 2016. (However, it is also worth nothing that, because of the pandemic delay, swimmers had five years to prepare between Rio and Tokyo, but only three between Tokyo and Paris.)

But does that really matter? Leave it to a 17-year-old, newly minted Olympic champion to set the world straight and remind everyone what’s important at the Paris 2024 swim meet.

“The pool’s 50 meters … It’s an Olympic pool,” Canada’s McIntosh, silver medalist behind Titmus in the women’s 400 free and gold medalist in the 400 IM, told reporters. “I don’t think any Olympic pool should really be called slow. No matter what, everybody’s racing in the same pool. Doesn’t matter if it’s the fastest pool in the world, slowest pool in the world - I have the same goals.”
Wet and bumpy pool.
 
Obviously Ledecky is incredible. Her dominance in 1 discipline is unlike anything we've ever seen.

But IMO you can't put someone who only competes in 1 stroke at the level of someone like Phelps. She's a 1 trick pony.
In what she's good at (looong course races) there is only free. If there was a 1500 IM or 1500 fly she'd be right up there with Phelps.

It's like saying Shiffrin is a one trick pony because all she does is ski down a hill.

In the end, at least for me, she's the greatest female athlete of my lifetime.
 
Obviously Ledecky is incredible. Her dominance in 1 discipline is unlike anything we've ever seen.

But IMO you can't put someone who only competes in 1 stroke at the level of someone like Phelps. She's a 1 trick pony.
In what she's good at (looong course races) there is only free. If there was a 1500 IM or 1500 fly she'd be right up there with Phelps.

It's like saying Shiffrin is a one trick pony because all she does is ski down a hill.

In the end, at least for me, she's the greatest female athlete of my lifetime.

Not sure how you could say that. Each stroke requires different technique and abilities and often favor slightly different body types. By your logic, the same swimmers that are great in the 100 fly should also be good in the 100 back or the 100 breast. But they're generally not.

Not sure how the Shiffrin comparison makes any sense. There are different skiing disciplines (downhill, moguls, jumping) but athletes never cross over. The closest equivalent (although not a perfect one) is slalom vs super G vs downhill (not a skiing guy, so I dont know the exact differences). I would say a skier that medaled in all 3 would be equivalent to Phelps while someone who won multiple golds in Giant Slalom but never competed in the Super G or the downhill would be closer to Ledecky.

Not doubting her greatness at all. She may very well be the greatest female swimmer of all time. But comparing her to Phelps isn't fair. She's insanely awesome at one thing. She only has to train for that. Phelps and other multi-stroke swimmers have to split their energy and time (both in the lead up to the olympics and the games themselves) . And to me, that's more impressive.
 
Obviously Ledecky is incredible. Her dominance in 1 discipline is unlike anything we've ever seen.

But IMO you can't put someone who only competes in 1 stroke at the level of someone like Phelps. She's a 1 trick pony.
In what she's good at (looong course races) there is only free. If there was a 1500 IM or 1500 fly she'd be right up there with Phelps.

It's like saying Shiffrin is a one trick pony because all she does is ski down a hill.

In the end, at least for me, she's the greatest female athlete of my lifetime.

Not sure how you could say that. Each stroke requires different technique and abilities and often favor slightly different body types. By your logic, the same swimmers that are great in the 100 fly should also be good in the 100 back or the 100 breast. But they're generally not.
This is generally untrue. Free and fly usually go together - those who are good at one are usually good at the other. Even back is pretty analagous - look at Hunter Armstrong these games. The breaststrokers are the weird ones. Used to be a pretty competitive swimmer and this is generally the pattern.

Ledecky has such an insane engine I'd think she'd be competitive in anything long. Except breast. Real swimmers don't do that stroke.
 
They were discussing the greatest of all time thing during the swimming broadcast, and the announcers basically said Ledecky was the second greatest of all time. Behind Phelps, who yeah, he's so far ahead. He has almost twice as many Olympic gold medals as Ledecky has total medals.

But she's pretty darn amazing how she blows people away.
 
You're a baseball guy - Ledecky is like Mariano Rivera. One pitch that nobody can hit. One. Phelps is Clayton Kershaw, a guy who can get you out with 4 different pitches.

I think Phelps would be more like Shohei Ohtani. If Shohei also consistently led the league in stolen bases.
 
My Olympic pet peeve is the dooshes who just HAVE to whistle or make noise when the breast stroke competitors surface. Every freakin' time. They are the vuvuzelas of the Games.
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I wonder how many more he will beat. Real tough guy beating up on women.

Obviously the whole thing is awful, but just for clarity....this person is not trans. They're apparently one of the very small % of the population that is "intersex".

Now, if this person was raised as a man and has external male organs and just boxes as a woman because its a genetic gray area....then yeah, F them. But i have no idea if that's the case.

This is basically the Caster Semenya situation....except in a combat sport.
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I'm glad someone else is talking about this because I think it's one of the biggest reasons many are turning away, be very interesting to find out how many people are watching
And would @Zow hand me my muzzle so I don't say anything further
:banned:
 
They were discussing the greatest of all time thing during the swimming broadcast, and the announcers basically said Ledecky was the second greatest of all time. Behind Phelps, who yeah, he's so far ahead. He has almost twice as many Olympic gold medals as Ledecky has total medals.

But she's pretty darn amazing how she blows people away.
ya Phelps has 28 total (23 gold), Ledecky now has 12 total (8 gold) (https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/40319940/which-us-olympians-won-most-gold-medals)

was watching with my daughter last night and we thought Ledecky should've gotten out of the pool and cheered on everyone else to the finish :lol:
 
Close, exciting race in the Men's Gymnastics last night between Japan (Oka) and China (Zhang). Those guys are amazing to watch!

And on a side note, how did we get stuck with so much Snoop Dog coverage? I was already tired of him a few days ago.
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I'm glad someone else is talking about this because I think it's one of the biggest reasons many are turning away, be very interesting to find out how many people are watching
And would @Zow hand me my muzzle so I don't say anything further
:banned:
Nobody really watches women's boxing anyway. I'm skeptical that this is turning many people away
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I wonder how many more he will beat. Real tough guy beating up on women.

Obviously the whole thing is awful, but just for clarity....this person is not trans. They're apparently one of the very small % of the population that is "intersex".

Now, if this person was raised as a man and has external male organs and just boxes as a woman because its a genetic gray area....then yeah, F them. But i have no idea if that's the case.

This is basically the Caster Semenya situation....except in a combat sport.

Yeah, I didn't know anything about it as I don't really follow Olympic boxing but saw that today. Does the IOC even have a rule about intersex athletes?
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I wonder how many more he will beat. Real tough guy beating up on women.

Obviously the whole thing is awful, but just for clarity....this person is not trans. They're apparently one of the very small % of the population that is "intersex".

Now, if this person was raised as a man and has external male organs and just boxes as a woman because its a genetic gray area....then yeah, F them. But i have no idea if that's the case.

This is basically the Caster Semenya situation....except in a combat sport.

Yeah, I didn't know anything about it as I don't really follow Olympic boxing but saw that today. Does the IOC even have a rule about intersex athletes?
In terms of intersex athletes, the IOC states that intersex athletes are categorized as male or female based on their legally recognized sex, as it appears in their civil status and identity documents. However, there is an exception for intersex female athletes with high levels of androgens, also known as "female hyperandrogenism". These athletes may not be permitted to compete because they could have an advantage in terms of strength, power, and speed. In these cases, a panel of experts must assess the situation.
 
Yeah, I remember the whole deal with Caster Semenya and a couple of other intersex middle-distance runners a few years back. It was pretty clear she had a massive advantage and i believe they eventually decided to ban people like her (who the hell knows how they determined the cutoff...I assume some sort of testosterone % thing) from competing in those events. Semenya tried to move back to run longer races (where she was still allowed to compete) and couldn't do it at a high level.

This is obviously an exceedingly rare thing (lots of speculation about Britney Griner over the years) but when it is in the spotlight like this, its at the very least an interesting follow.

Hard to tell someone they cant compete due to a condition that's 100% not their fault.....but when it creates a distinctly unfair advantage (and in the case of boxing, an obvious safety issue)....someone has to be the bad guy. Seems like DQ'ing one person rather than compromising the entire sport (and the safety of its athletes) is the lesser of 2 evils here.
 
Hard to tell someone they cant compete due to a condition that's 100% not their fault.....but when it creates a distinctly unfair advantage (and in the case of boxing, an obvious safety issue)....someone has to be the bad guy. Seems like DQ'ing one person rather than compromising the entire sport (and the safety of its athletes) is the lesser of 2 evils here.
Amen
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I'm glad someone else is talking about this because I think it's one of the biggest reasons many are turning away, be very interesting to find out how many people are watching
And would @Zow hand me my muzzle so I don't say anything further
:banned:
Nobody really watches women's boxing anyway. I'm skeptical that this is turning many people away
It’s turning people away from the Olympics
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I wonder how many more he will beat. Real tough guy beating up on women.

Obviously the whole thing is awful, but just for clarity....this person is not trans. They're apparently one of the very small % of the population that is "intersex".

Now, if this person was raised as a man and has external male organs and just boxes as a woman because its a genetic gray area....then yeah, F them. But i have no idea if that's the case.

This is basically the Caster Semenya situation....except in a combat sport.

Yeah, I didn't know anything about it as I don't really follow Olympic boxing but saw that today. Does the IOC even have a rule about intersex athletes?
In terms of intersex athletes, the IOC states that intersex athletes are categorized as male or female based on their legally recognized sex, as it appears in their civil status and identity documents. However, there is an exception for intersex female athletes with high levels of androgens, also known as "female hyperandrogenism". These athletes may not be permitted to compete because they could have an advantage in terms of strength, power, and speed. In these cases, a panel of experts must assess the situation.

Khelif also competed in the previous Olympics (as a woman), as did Lin (from Taiwan - similar situation).

Ironic that Imane Khelif has both “man” and “he” spelled out in their name.
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I'm glad someone else is talking about this because I think it's one of the biggest reasons many are turning away, be very interesting to find out how many people are watching
And would @Zow hand me my muzzle so I don't say anything further
:banned:
Nobody really watches women's boxing anyway. I'm skeptical that this is turning many people away
It’s turning people away from the Olympics

Their loss - France has put on a fantastic Olympics and the coverage is awesome nowadays being able to watch essentially everything you want. It’s great.
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I'm glad someone else is talking about this because I think it's one of the biggest reasons many are turning away, be very interesting to find out how many people are watching
And would @Zow hand me my muzzle so I don't say anything further
:banned:
Nobody really watches women's boxing anyway. I'm skeptical that this is turning many people away
It’s turning people away from the Olympics

Their loss - France has put on a fantastic Olympics and the coverage is awesome nowadays being able to watch essentially everything you want. It’s great.
I’m watching
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I'm glad someone else is talking about this because I think it's one of the biggest reasons many are turning away, be very interesting to find out how many people are watching
And would @Zow hand me my muzzle so I don't say anything further
:banned:
Nobody really watches women's boxing anyway. I'm skeptical that this is turning many people away
It’s turning people away from the Olympics

Their loss - France has put on a fantastic Olympics and the coverage is awesome nowadays being able to watch essentially everything you want. It’s great.
I’m watching

That’s why I didn’t say your loss ;)
 
Italian female boxer has to give up after getting pummeled by a guy. What a brutal way to end her Olympic experience.

I'm glad someone else is talking about this because I think it's one of the biggest reasons many are turning away, be very interesting to find out how many people are watching
And would @Zow hand me my muzzle so I don't say anything further
:banned:
Nobody really watches women's boxing anyway. I'm skeptical that this is turning many people away
It’s turning people away from the Olympics

Their loss - France has put on a fantastic Olympics and the coverage is awesome nowadays being able to watch essentially everything you want. It’s great.
I’m watching

That’s why I didn’t say your loss ;)
Fair enough :lol:
 

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