Good catch. got caught up in in being primetimeThere's been more than 1 game for these guys...why does it say Game 1 stats?
Agree completely with all points.Randle had the best game tonight of the three. He's a force.
Wiggins is the most NBA-ready of the three - he's a blur for a player his size and is much stronger that his physique would indicate. Seems to have te highest BKB IQ of the three as well.
Parker has some great offensive tools and is fast/quick for his size, but he can't guard a chair and has no idea what a defensive rotation is.
Give me Wiggins, Randle, and Parker in that order.
I'd probably agree with this. Parker seems to have a higher floor but less upside. On that alone, Wiggins probably goes #1. But either guys success will be dependent upon how hard they work at their games. Both guys seem to have good heads on their shoulders so it should be fun to watch from here on out.I missed most of the first game, so didn't see Randle much.
I saw the second game and between Wiggins and Parker. It's pretty clear that Parker is more polished and has a more mature and complete game, but you have to wonder what his ceiling his and how much room for improvement there is with him. It was hard to get a reading on Wiggins because he was in foul trouble and doesn't force the issue, almost to a fault. But Wiggins' athleticism does give him a clear edge in terms of potential. Either way, I liked the fact that both played within the team concept in today's game.
Tonight it wasn't even close. Parker stopped the ball on offense several times in the second half, settling for step-back jumpers - including one he airballed - when all the talk all week has been how easy it is to draw fouls on drives. On defense, he got sealed off repeatedly when his man was one pass away - Ellis in particular got a lot of layups with Parker in the lane. Also, Parker had no idea what to do when his man was two passes away, offering little help or rotation support when a penetrator beat his man and headed for the basket. His transition D positioning was bad, though he does get credit for getting back on D.Also, not sure how Wiggins gets the highest basketball IQ of the 3. Most scouts would probably give that to Parker. Hard to argue against him having an advanced game for his age. The bigger issue is if he can keep improving when the defenders continue to get better.
Parker is not going to be an NBA ball-handler. He is not a banger either. He's a perimeter player. Boozer got a near max deal. I said Parker is a "rich man's" Boozer. Meaning a lot better. He has finesse around the rim and a solid outside shot. He can score. Not far off IMO.Aside from Jabari Parker - who was handling the ball - being compared to booZer there is a shockingly high amount of good content here. Good job ffa.
Boozer has made 1 3 pointer in his entire NBA career. He's 266 lbs (which is probably 30 lbs heavier than Parker will end up playing in the NBA). Other than the fact that they're similar heights and went/go to Duke, I don't see the comparison.Parker is not going to be an NBA ball-handler. He is not a banger either. He's a perimeter player. Boozer got a near max deal. I said Parker is a "rich man's" Boozer. Meaning a lot better. He has finesse around the rim and a solid outside shot. He can score. Not far off IMO.Aside from Jabari Parker - who was handling the ball - being compared to booZer there is a shockingly high amount of good content here. Good job ffa.
I was way off. Looking spectacular in the first half tonight. Great sense of spacing. Puts himself in great position. Awesome.Boozer has made 1 3 pointer in his entire NBA career. He's 266 lbs (which is probably 30 lbs heavier than Parker will end up playing in the NBA). Other than the fact that they're similar heights and went/go to Duke, I don't see the comparison.Parker is not going to be an NBA ball-handler. He is not a banger either. He's a perimeter player. Boozer got a near max deal. I said Parker is a "rich man's" Boozer. Meaning a lot better. He has finesse around the rim and a solid outside shot. He can score. Not far off IMO.Aside from Jabari Parker - who was handling the ball - being compared to booZer there is a shockingly high amount of good content here. Good job ffa.
Wait, what???? You don't think one of those 3 will be the #1 overall pick? hopefully you are nitpicking over the jazz part...I'll take the field.
...possibly thinking Smart, which could be a smart call.Wait, what???? You don't think one of those 3 will be the #1 overall pick? hopefully you are nitpicking over the jazz part...I'll take the field.
Especially if Utah lands the #1 pick. Didn't know Parker was Mormon.Parker. Worst college player of the three (worst being extremely relative) but he'll be the first pick.
Update?Noah Vonleh won't be a bad consolation prize for a team at 6 or 7.
A. Gordon goes #1 in last year's draft and is top 2 in many drafts. He's Blake Griffin.Outstanding draft class with a lot of potential impact players, but the race for the #1 pick is over. It's going to be Wiggins.
Anyone taking Randle, Parker, Smart, or Exum at 2-5 are going to be thrilled with the value they are getting at their pick. In most drafts, Aaron Gordon or JoJo Embiid would taken third or fourth with pundits wondering if their selectors reached a little, but will seem like steals compared to what is normally available at 6-8.
But anyone saying anyone other than Wiggins is the top pick is trying to be contrarian, sending a smokescreen, or just doesn't know what he's talking about. This one's over.
Watch Parker on defense once ACC play starts. Really watch him. Zoom in on him. The fundamentals and intangibles aren't there. He takes big risks that get steals and blocks, but he doesn't cut off angles well as a help defender and doesn't know where to stand when the ball is two passes away. His post defense footwork is terrible, and a good post offense player can create a lot of open space at the hoop when Parker fronts him. A lot of the blocks he's racked up on the OOC tomato cans were layups against Kansas, and without a big improvement on play recognition and timing he will give up a lot of layups or take a lot of fouls in the ACC.A. Gordon goes #1 in last year's draft and is top 2 in many drafts. He's Blake Griffin.Outstanding draft class with a lot of potential impact players, but the race for the #1 pick is over. It's going to be Wiggins.
Anyone taking Randle, Parker, Smart, or Exum at 2-5 are going to be thrilled with the value they are getting at their pick. In most drafts, Aaron Gordon or JoJo Embiid would taken third or fourth with pundits wondering if their selectors reached a little, but will seem like steals compared to what is normally available at 6-8.
But anyone saying anyone other than Wiggins is the top pick is trying to be contrarian, sending a smokescreen, or just doesn't know what he's talking about. This one's over.
Only seen Wiggins once. Could very well be the best of the bunch. Parker just seems like a coach's dream. When you get to the upper echelon it's the intangibles that set you apart. Will have to see Wiggins more. But Parker has elite talent and is a gamer from what i've seen. Different positions, but Duncan's athleticism is not off the charts but his intangibles are. See Parker like that as of now.
This is probably the one thing I hate hearing most about Wiggins. "lack of fire"His supposed "lack of fire" will also play a factor long before any of Parker's current defensive shortcomings will come into the mix.
Anybody can get up for crunch time against a top program. That's not what people are referring to when they question his "fire". But is he going to be able to play at that intensity during the daily grind of an NBA season?This is probably the one thing I hate hearing most about Wiggins. "lack of fire"His supposed "lack of fire" will also play a factor long before any of Parker's current defensive shortcomings will come into the mix.
watch him vs Duke in the 4th quarter and tell me if the kid has "lack of fire". He was a monster on O and on D, and was screaming, fist pumping and all that #### that people equate to "fire"
people confuse his soft-spokenness, for a weakness. And it's not
Exactly. This is the criticism. (That he doesn't play hard all the time) Anyone can get up for a game like that.Anybody can get up for crunch time against a top program. That's not what people are referring to when they question his "fire". But is he going to be able to play at that intensity during the daily grind of an NBA season?This is probably the one thing I hate hearing most about Wiggins. "lack of fire"His supposed "lack of fire" will also play a factor long before any of Parker's current defensive shortcomings will come into the mix.
watch him vs Duke in the 4th quarter and tell me if the kid has "lack of fire". He was a monster on O and on D, and was screaming, fist pumping and all that #### that people equate to "fire"
people confuse his soft-spokenness, for a weakness. And it's not
The issue is that he tends to be invisible for long stretches of time. He can be on the floor for 10 minutes and you not even notice him. He tends to turn it off and on, and I haven't seen that from Randle or Parker.
Now with all that said, I too think he has the highest NBA ceiling and will be the #1 pick. I think Randle and Parker will be better college players with better stat lines, but in the long run I don't see an NBA gm passing on Wiggins' potential.
Randle is averaging 19 points and 13 rebounds with a double-double in his first 7 gamesSmart outplaying all 3 by a decent margin so far this season.
Parker had a poor game last night. He definitely forced some jumpers and put himself in some bad spots that allowed for easy double teams (and turnovers as a result). His shot selection certainly needs work. Can't dispute that.Having seen Wiggins play a few games without the flu and two games with it, the #1 thing he can do right now to improve his game is rid himself of the flu. In the Atlantis games he's looked like an SF with slightly above average quickness, but compared to his other games he's looked like he's been stuck in quicksand.
Not sure how to fix Parker's flaws. He's played against two good teams so far, and in both games he had a tendency to stop the ball on offense and didn't guard anybody on defense.
Want to see more of Randle against good competition. Looking forward UK's game against Louisville in a few weeks.
If there's anyone in CBB that deserves to be in this discussion who isn't in the thread title, it's Marcus Smart. Lots of ways he can make teams better, and fantastic from the neck up, too.
Yeah, Randle is a beast who will put up big numbers every night. He might be sharing the floor with some knuckleheads, but I'd love to have him on my team.Randle might not have the highest ceiling of the names at the top of this draft, but he's got the highest floor. Big scoring doesn't always translate well at the next level, but there's always a spot for a guy who pulls down tough rebounds. And if you find both in the same player, you've got an All-Star.Randle is averaging 19 points and 13 rebounds with a double-double in his first 7 gamesSmart outplaying all 3 by a decent margin so far this season.
It's largely in response to the narrative that Parker has this ginormous BKBIQ that isn't supported by how he plays. I'm also exploring the possibility of a greater shift regarding the Duke program that is outside the scope of this thread.But at the end of the day, Wiggins is going to be drafted over Parker for 1 reason and 1 reason only. (unless Parker continues to put up 33% shooting nights with 5 turnovers) He's more athletic. Period, end of story. I'm really not sure why you feel the need to turn this into a deeper issue. It just seems silly to go to these lengths to point out all these "flaws" in Parker's mental game (which can obviously be fixed. He's 18).
I'm onboard with your earlier statement that offensive skills and potential will largely determine the fate of the top of the draft - NBA defense is so physically demanding, many teams will hide and protect their best offensive players on defense to preserve their stamina. So Parker may enter an NBA environment where his lack of defensive development won't matter. But Wiggins is also 18 and he's exhibited sophisticated defensive skills and recognition that Parker hasn't. IMO defense is a state of mind. It's something you commit to in order to help your team win. When I see a disinterested defensive player on the court, I can't help but project selfish tendencies upon him. Obviously there are physical limitations to a player's defensive ceiling, but there's a ton of human helicopters in the game who can't generate stops.Wiggins is the better pro prospect because his parents passed down superior genetics. It's science.
I'll buy the bolded portion. In the end, maybe Parker is just a disinterested defender who is content to be a 1 dimensional player. Its certainly possible.It's largely in response to the narrative that Parker has this ginormous BKBIQ that isn't supported by how he plays. I'm also exploring the possibility of a greater shift regarding the Duke program that is outside the scope of this thread.But at the end of the day, Wiggins is going to be drafted over Parker for 1 reason and 1 reason only. (unless Parker continues to put up 33% shooting nights with 5 turnovers) He's more athletic. Period, end of story. I'm really not sure why you feel the need to turn this into a deeper issue. It just seems silly to go to these lengths to point out all these "flaws" in Parker's mental game (which can obviously be fixed. He's 18).
I'm onboard with your earlier statement that offensive skills and potential will largely determine the fate of the top of the draft - NBA defense is so physically demanding, many teams will hide and protect their best offensive players on defense to preserve their stamina. So Parker may enter an NBA environment where his lack of defensive development won't matter. But Wiggins is also 18 and he's exhibited sophisticated defensive skills and recognition that Parker hasn't.IMO defense is a state of mind. It's something you commit to in order to help your team win. When I see a disinterested defensive player on the court, I can't help but project selfish tendencies upon him. Obviously there are physical limitations to a player's defensive ceiling, but there's a ton of human helicopters in the game who can't generate stops.Wiggins is the better pro prospect because his parents passed down superior genetics. It's science.
Wiggins is a potential NBA All-Defense award winner because he has great genetics. But he's a great college defender right now because he wants to be one. Plus, Parker wouldn't be drawing comparisons to guys like Paul Pierce, Carmelo Anthony, and Grant Hill if he wasn't an extraordinary athlete. The only things stopping him from becoming a great defender are his own willingness to create stops and his coach's willingness to let him expend the necessary energy on defense to do so.