What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Parker v Randle v Wiggins (1 Viewer)

#1 pick in the 2014 NBA draft

  • Parker

    Votes: 21 28.4%

  • Randle

    Votes: 14 18.9%

  • Wiggins

    Votes: 39 52.7%
  • Total voters
    74
tdoss said:
Here's an interesting take on Wiggins and who should go first...

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/forgrave-let-s-enjoy-wiggins-for-what-he-is-not-what-he-could-be-012114
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this. I would have missed it otherwise.

Wiggins ending up at KU was from a combination of factors: his parents trusted Bill Self, his brother was at nearby Wichita State, his defense-first perimeter game was a good fit for the Jayhawks' system... but an underrated factor was the rapport he built with Selden and Embiid during the postseason exhibitions. Those three aren't big trash-talkers or all that demonstrative on the court, low-key personalities who would rather everyone shut up and just play ball. What others see as a lack of aggression or effort out of Wiggins is actually a player still trying to figure out how he fits in the system.

Even growing up with an NBA player as a father and having a ton of skill, Wiggins is still learning the game. Sometimes he gets frustrated and can't figure out how he fits in the flow of play. Like against Oklahoma State: a couple bad calls went against him in the first half, and in the second half the team got turnover-prone and blew a big lead. But it's a process. And it's fascinating to watch him get it, even during a game. Like against Baylor: in the first half, he kept wanting to make the proper basketball play and passed off when two guys form Baylor's zone collapsed on him, but in the second half he spotted the seams and drew a bunch of fouls when the defense ran at him. Defensively, in the first half he slowed both Baylor SFs, but Brady Heslip propped Baylor up with white-hot three-point shooting. Then in the second half Wiggins switched over to Heslip and put an invisibility cloak on him as KU put the game away.

 
Wiggins with 19 in the first half on 6-for-8 shooting, all in the flow of the offense. Not that surprising given how bad TCU is - they are easily the worst team KU has played away from Lawrence, and possibly on the non-exhibition schedule - but still fun to watch.

Didn't learn much new about Embiid. TCU inexplicably ran several high screens with Embiid's man, so Embiid got a chance to practice defending the high screen-and-roll with thousands of witnesses. He did alright hedging, but TCU's guards aren't fast enough to be a useful gauge on how well Embiid's play would translate against NBA offenses.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
Wiggins with 19 in the first half on 6-for-8 shooting, all in the flow of the offense. Not that surprising given how bad TCU is - they are easily the worst team KU has played away from Lawrence, and possibly on the non-exhibition schedule - but still fun to watch.

Didn't learn much new about Embiid. TCU inexplicably ran several high screens with Embiid's man, so Embiid got a chance to practice defending the high screen-and-roll with thousands of witnesses. He did alright hedging, but TCU's guards aren't fast enough to be a useful gauge on how well Embiid's play would translate against NBA offenses.
Click to expand...
Embiid is raw. Gifted, but raw. I'd feel much better going with Parker or Wiggins. Randle needs to learn to play outside of the post. Develop a mid range face-up game.

 
Patrick Bateman said:
Bruce Dickinson said:
Wiggins with 19 in the first half on 6-for-8 shooting, all in the flow of the offense. Not that surprising given how bad TCU is - they are easily the worst team KU has played away from Lawrence, and possibly on the non-exhibition schedule - but still fun to watch.

Didn't learn much new about Embiid. TCU inexplicably ran several high screens with Embiid's man, so Embiid got a chance to practice defending the high screen-and-roll with thousands of witnesses. He did alright hedging, but TCU's guards aren't fast enough to be a useful gauge on how well Embiid's play would translate against NBA offenses.
Click to expand...
Embiid is raw. Gifted, but raw. I'd feel much better going with Parker or Wiggins. Randle needs to learn to play outside of the post. Develop a mid range face-up game.
Click to expand...
Randle's mid-range game is good and getting better. His first step is amazing and most of his baskets the past few games have come from catching it at the elbow and attacking with the drive. Early in the year, he was scoring mostly with his back to the basket in the post, but that has changed because he gets so much attention on the post.

Now if by mid-range face-up game, you mean he needs to shoot more 15-18 footers, that's probably not going to happen (although he did make one early in the game yesterday and a 3 in each of the past 2 games). He has good touch and decent form, so I think he will be a good mid-range shooter in the pros, but Kentucky just doesn't need him to do that much.

I don't think there's any way Randle goes #1, but he may very well be the best pro of the bunch. He reminds me somewhat of a young Barkley the way he rebounds and attacks the basket.

 
Prince Myshkin said:
Patrick Bateman said:
Bruce Dickinson said:
Wiggins with 19 in the first half on 6-for-8 shooting, all in the flow of the offense. Not that surprising given how bad TCU is - they are easily the worst team KU has played away from Lawrence, and possibly on the non-exhibition schedule - but still fun to watch.

Didn't learn much new about Embiid. TCU inexplicably ran several high screens with Embiid's man, so Embiid got a chance to practice defending the high screen-and-roll with thousands of witnesses. He did alright hedging, but TCU's guards aren't fast enough to be a useful gauge on how well Embiid's play would translate against NBA offenses.
Click to expand...
Embiid is raw. Gifted, but raw. I'd feel much better going with Parker or Wiggins. Randle needs to learn to play outside of the post. Develop a mid range face-up game.
Click to expand...
Randle's mid-range game is good and getting better. His first step is amazing and most of his baskets the past few games have come from catching it at the elbow and attacking with the drive. Early in the year, he was scoring mostly with his back to the basket in the post, but that has changed because he gets so much attention on the post. Now if by mid-range face-up game, you mean he needs to shoot more 15-18 footers, that's probably not going to happen (although he did make one early in the game yesterday and a 3 in each of the past 2 games). He has good touch and decent form, so I think he will be a good mid-range shooter in the pros, but Kentucky just doesn't need him to do that much.

I don't think there's any way Randle goes #1, but he may very well be the best pro of the bunch. He reminds me somewhat of a young Barkley the way he rebounds and attacks the basket.
Click to expand...
His game IMO is going to translate well to today's NBA. He will need to be paired with a rim protector C defensively, but he's rugged enough to play post defense and quick enough to close out on shooters.With Randle starting more plays at the elbow/top of key area, I see more of what you have been saying about Randle resembling young Barkley. The Philly-era Barkley who played SF and ferociously attacked the basket was ahead of his time. Having a guy who can screen, roll, shoot, or drive from the high post is an asset on the NBA offenses who like to spread three guy camped outside the arc as the other two attack the basket.

Drawing the Barkley parallel even further, Barkley was picked fifth in one of the greatest NBA Drafts of all time.

 
Duke honk Shane Ryan throws Parker under the bus

"...I took a glance at Duke’s schedule, and isolated the losses. Before the Carolina game, there were five: Kansas, Arizona, Notre Dame, Clemson, and Syracuse. Every loss was reasonably close, if not at the finish, then at least late into the second half. Here are Hood and Parker’s stats, by half, in those five games combined:

Rodney Hood, first halves: 18-of-37 (48.6%), 46 points

Rodney Hood, second halves: 13-of-28 (46.4%), 45 points

Jabari Parker, first halves: 18-of-45 (40.0%), 49 points

Jabari Parker, second halves: 11-of-33 (33.3%), 26 points

So I was dead wrong about Hood (whose stats I tweaked by one point and one field goal to omit the overtime session against Syracuse). He actually shot less in the second halves of these games, but his scoring output is almost equal because he got to the basket at a higher clip. Last night, for him, was a bit of an anomaly.

But Parker? Oh boy. There, the theory holds in a big way — not only does his shooting percentage dip in the second half, but he shoots less. And, fine, this may still be a small sample size, and maybe we should take it with a grain of salt since he’s a freshman and four of the losses came in tough road environments. Still, ask any Duke fan how he or she feels about Parker against average teams in average moments, and you’ll get a superlative like “best freshman in the country.” But ask how they feel about Parker when things get tense? Even the Kool-Aid drinkers will hesitate. Last night’s loss wasn’t squarely on Parker’s shoulders (truth be told, the chronically mercurial Quinn Cook was the only one who played with any courage), but it’s a continuation of an ugly pattern that figures to hurt Duke in the NCAA tournament. And the really painful part is that he doesn’t even need to “step up,” or change his style in any way. All he has to do is be himself.

But here’s another problem: Regardless of the personnel, Parker is one of the worst defensive players on the court. All the time, every time. Last night, after he gave up what seemed like three consecutive easy drives for layups, I began watching him every possession. That he struggles on the defensive end has been common knowledge all year, but the extent of it is staggering to behold; not only is he unable to guard anyone, but he barely seems to know where he should stand at any given moment. There’s no intensity, no sense of space, and he may actually be at his worst when trying to provide help defense, a situation that usually ends with an aborted attempt to take a charge and a feckless flail of the hand as the ball handler flies by.

Parker is an exceptional offensive talent who gets close to transcendence at his best, and he’s a force on the boards, but any “best ____ in the nation” labels are premature. There are too many weaknesses, and some aren’t even physical.
Click to expand...
All these shortcomings have been present all season, and it hasn't hurt Parker's draft stock one bit. He's still 1.03 at DX, and some other mocks have him higher. With no incentive to improve on defense, why bother? Duke may not be at risk of a top draft talent putting his own wants ahead of team needs like their other recent high-profile recruits, like Austin Rivers leading a 2-seed to zero tourney wins, or when Kyrie Irving froze out his NPOY teammate to prove to the NBA scouts that he was healthy but ending Duke's season in the process. But Parker's lack of in-season improvement and general disinterest in defense does not bode well for a deep tourney run. But he will still be a top pick, so it's all good.

 
Shane Ryan is anything but a Duke honk. As far as Parker, he looks tired. As others have pointed out, people just look for flaws in these guys. I can't remember the top picks being so scrutinized. Kyrie Irving wasn't much better defensively, yet nobody seemed to care.

You keep trying to bring defense up but its not going to cost him much in terms of the draft. For one, he is mostly playing out of his natural position or what he'll play in the NBA. And the NBA is much more concerned with 1 v 1 defense than help defense (at least right now). And for all his defensive shortcomings, he still leads the team in rebounds and blocks (which isn't saying a ton).

The only thing that is concerning regarding Parker's future is his jump shot which has been terrible. Whoever drafts him will have to be convinced that he will be able to get up some stamina. I never saw him much pre injury but people say he is still trying to get back his body from before his injury which will help with his explosiveness.

 
The lAtest Simmons podcast was intereting about all the top prospects. Was saying that wiggins is an elite defender which doesn't show up on sports center. Parker is a little doughy and will be more athletic when the nba strength guys get a hold of him. Randle isn't being used at all away from the bucket which is a strength of his game. Talked about smart needing to make some shots or he will slide a bit.

Made a Paul George comparison on wiggins. Derrick Coleman compare on Randle.

 
Daywalker said:
Without dominating the ball Parker won that Syracuse game in the last two minutes. Very impressive.
Click to expand...
People who watched the game would disagree with that assessment. Parker played well throughout the game and did show he could contribute big plays on offense without holding the ball for the entire possession, but there weren't enough possessions in the last two minutes to say any one player won or lost the game for their team during that stretch, especially when there was a play in that game window where a coach got called for two technical fouls when the game was two points apart.
 
Embiid is going #1. This guy has only been playing for a couple of years, and the moves I've seen this year from him are just incredible.

His age + higher ceiling than the other guys = #1.

 
Abraham said:
Well, it appears Andrew wiggins can play a little basketball.
Click to expand...
The game result was disappointing, but I was impressed with how Wiggins took on the scoring burden today when it was clear none of his teammates brought their A games to Morgantown. He's still not a great dribbler, but his shooting, especially jumpers right off a pass, has improved a bit during the season. He won't be one of those NBA snipers who will have the occasional 6-for-8 night behind the arc, but he has enough range to knock down threes from out top and will have to be guarded out there.

Wiggins has been real easy to root for. He played a style of basketball that cost him some individual numbers but made the team a lot better, and was the main reason this team with five new starters won the Big XII going away. Going to miss him in crimson-and-blue, but no one expected him to stay more than one season.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kudos to the Iowa State student section for their performance today. When Marcus Smart jogged out during pregame introductions, the ISU fans flopped. That would have been enough, but they also flopped to distract him when he shot free throws, too.

 
Premier said:
How does Kansas keep losing with the likely top-2 picks? Crazy.
Click to expand...
Turnovers. It's Self's biggest weakness as a coach and program organizer. He's quick to forgive bad shots and bad passes, but has no patience for defensive lapses. So the dynamic offense-first PGs and combos play elsewhere, and Self is left trying to make it work with knuckleheads like Tyshawn Taylor and converted SGs like Elijah Johnson and Naadir Tharpe. On the road, they let teams hang around with unforced errors on offense, and they lose to teams who can force a lot of turnovers out top. That's why Villanova beat them, and why Florida jumped way out ahead of them before Wiggins made the score respectable.

Embiid hasn't been 100% since December, and the staff has been careful with him because backs on a 7-foot-tall man who might not be done growing yet are not to be trifled with. Just about every loss in conference came on a game where Embiid either didn't play or was on a limited-minutes schedule.

The Oklahoma State and West Virginia losses came after the team clinched the conference title. Now the Oklahoma State loss was a meltdown - they were up 10 with 10 to go and fell apart thanks to turnovers. But the West Virginia game was mailed in - nothing at stake in the conference standings, Embiid flew to LA to see a back specialist instead of traveling with the team, and an attitude within the program that the #2 seed in Wichita State's region is preferable to traveling farther away to be a 1-seed.

It's not that they wanted to lose, but there were no negative consequences for losing. Because they played such a tough schedule and the TSC avoids rematches from the regular season and last year's tournament, there's a limited number of ways KU can be bracketed. They played Florida, Villanova, Duke and San Diego State in non-conference, played Michigan in the tournament last year, and Iowa State twice in conference. That's almost half of the top four seed lines, and KU can't draw them.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Most places seem to have Embiid one overall. If his injury is bad enough, he might come back to get that cleared up. It'd be pretty stupid since he is a top 3 pick even with an injury and most guys who come back end up dropping.

It probably comes down to need. If you have a legit C, I could see them going after Parker/Wiggins. Even though Embiid is seen as a top prospect, I could see a team like Orlando or even Philly going wing. At that point, Wiggins is more potential, Parker more NBA ready. Since that team is drafting 2nd overall, they probably go Wiggins.

 
Grady Wilson said:
Long Ball Larry said:
Embiid didn't play today and ok st. Is no slouch
Click to expand...
What does Oklahoma State have to do with him not playing today?
Click to expand...
I assumed that he was talking about the 2 losses in the past 3 games, the prior of which was Ok St.

I would provide some additional context to what I said, but now that Ferris has posted, it would be kind of like Larry Boy coming in and posting about evolution after Richard Dawkins has just made a post.

The only other piece of context I would add is that Embiid is not even one of the 15 Naismith award finalists and, as many have pointed out, the possibility of him being the number 1 pick is based on his potential, not how good he is right now. So it's not like Kansas has the top 2 players in college basketball. They have like the arguable number 1 player and like the 20th-best player. I was assuming that Cap's question was essentially how can the team with the 2 best players in the country be losing games. But I may have misinterpreted.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Premier said:
Good stuff as always ferris.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind words.

So far, the next recruiting class isn't addressing the turnovers problem. Their top recruit is Cliff Alexander, a PF who dunks with a freakish ferocity as if basketball rims killed his sister, but he's not a floor general. SF Kelly Oubre can shoot and drive, but he's not much of a passer. Both of those guys are potential 2015 lottery picks and Alexander has a shot at going 1.01, but neither solve the turnovers problem. KU will also get Myles Turner if Embiid turns pro, but that's a center-for-center swap. They are thought to be in the running for JaQuan Lyle, a great ballhanding/passing combo guard with the size Self likes to have on the perimeter, but they need a scholarship to open up from either Frank Selden turning pro (game isn't yet ready for the NBA and loves his life in Lawrence) or Albert White transferring out (who hasn't expressed much displeasure with the program but probably won't ever play meaningful minutes for the Jayhawks).

All that said... The number of losses is surprising and worth questioning, even given the strength of their OOC games and how tough the Big XII is this season. The team has two of the, at worst, top 5 picks in this year's draft at C and SF, a future first-rounder at SG, a McD AA at PF, and the backup SF will play in NBA after his junior or senior year. There aren't many college rosters with five future pros. And what makes it even weirder is the players are genuinely supportive of each other on the court and have great chemistry off it; they get along well as a group and want to share the ball on offense - they just keep throwing the damn ball away.

 
sporthenry said:
Most places seem to have Embiid one overall. If his injury is bad enough, he might come back to get that cleared up. It'd be pretty stupid since he is a top 3 pick even with an injury and most guys who come back end up dropping.

It probably comes down to need. If you have a legit C, I could see them going after Parker/Wiggins. Even though Embiid is seen as a top prospect, I could see a team like Orlando or even Philly going wing. At that point, Wiggins is more potential, Parker more NBA ready. Since that team is drafting 2nd overall, they probably go Wiggins.
Click to expand...
I would absolutely take wiggins 1 without a second thought. The only things wrong with him can be taught: consistent outside shot and consistency. He's an excellent defender and has a great Ball iq. Worst case he's an excellent permiter defender and second offensive option. Ceiling is top 5 player.

 
Not to clog up this thread, but I do wonder if the Committee eventually has to take into account Embiid isn't healthy in their seeding especially if they flame out of the Big 12 tourney. I doubt they will, but I do wonder at what point they put a Big 10 as the 2 seed in Wichita's Midwest region.

BTW, after watching more of Parker, I think the better comparison of current NBA is Love rather than Anthony. While Parker's not a good defender (getting better though as he still recovers from last year's foot injury), he's become a beast on the boards since the start of Feb. Also, in a true pro set, he will be lethal as the picker on the pick and roll (Duke doesn't have a good enough point guard to exploit that fact and Hood's more of a spot up shooter than an instigator on offense). Granted he doesn't see the floor as well as Love, but he also doesn't need the ball in his hands to setup his shot like Anthony.

I also have my doubts Embiid will end up as the top pick. After the Oden fiasco, teams will be going over him in detail and I'm guessing in the end will take a surer thing in Wiggins or Parker than Embiid. Missing this year on this pick (if Embiid's back is a chronic thing) will set a club back even farther.

 
Wiggins seems ready to go off at the right time of the year. 41 point game followed by a 30 point game. Interesting that Embiid getting hurt might push him off the 1 b/c of Wiggins emergence. Wonder if Embiid comes back just to take touches away from Wiggins.

 
Hated that play call at the end of regulation, but love how Wiggins is playing today. Played some PF because of fouls and matchups. Contrary to earlier reports in this thread that Wiggins has always been a wing, he played inside a lot in high school, so it's not totally foreign to him.

 
Parker declared for the draft, no surprise... Can't really believe it was such a difficult decision for him either.

After a season of watching all of these prospects, I think Randle is the most pro ready and I like Randle and Parker more than Wiggins.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
Sixers fan and I am praying Wiggins falls to us. I think he has the higher ceiling with the lower floor.
Click to expand...
as a Raps fan, I pray we do a sign and swap w Philly Boy Lowry for your pick if Wiggins falls.
Click to expand...
I actually think Randle may have the lowest floor. He is a relentless rebounder and is a prototypical PF, I think his floor once he settles into a rotation is 15/9, and he will put up plenty of double doubles.

I still take Wiggins first if I have that pick, the upside is too much to overlook.

 
Cyclones said:
Soulfly3 said:
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
Sixers fan and I am praying Wiggins falls to us. I think he has the higher ceiling with the lower floor.
Click to expand...
as a Raps fan, I pray we do a sign and swap w Philly Boy Lowry for your pick if Wiggins falls.
Click to expand...
I actually think Randle may have the lowest floor. He is a relentless rebounder and is a prototypical PF, I think his floor once he settles into a rotation is 15/9, and he will put up plenty of double doubles.

I still take Wiggins first if I have that pick, the upside is too much to overlook.
Click to expand...
I don't think "Lowest Floor" means what you think it means...

 
It is crazy to think that Randle might possibly slip to pick 10-12. If McDermott is drafted before Randle, I will be LOL.

 
Abraham said:
Long Ball Larry said:
Soulfly3 said:
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
Sixers fan and I am praying Wiggins falls to us. I think he has the higher ceiling with the lower floor.
Click to expand...
as a Raps fan, I pray we do a sign and swap w Philly Boy Lowry for your pick if Wiggins falls.
Click to expand...
what? Lowry for the number 3 pick?
Click to expand...
And people think my trades suck...
Click to expand...
If you have boatloads of cap space and can trade away a potential franchise player for a free agent, you gotta pull the trigger :mellow:

 
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
Sixers fan and I am praying Wiggins falls to us. I think he has the higher ceiling with the lower floor.
Click to expand...
KU fan and I am praying Wiggins falls to 1.03. That Philly roster is a great fit for him with MCW and Noel already there. Brett Brown's background suggests he will be a good game coach and roster manager once the team decides to start winning games, too.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Travdogg's Free Agency Predictions and 2 round mock (updated 4/8/22)
2
Replies
73
Views
6K
rockaction
rockaction
T
My final 2022 mock draft, 3 rounds
2
Replies
56
Views
5K
travdogg
T
Couch Potato
Couch Potato 2012 Dynasty Rankings
4 5 6
Replies
293
Views
39K
Spin
Spin

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top