What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (1 Viewer)

Boston said:
Very good and reasonable take.  The only thing else that 'could' have factored into trading to SF over CLE are a 'rumor' about difficult negotiations with the former CLE front office on the Jamie Collins deal where BB got frustrated with the former Browns front office but nothing has been confirmed.

Reiss makes excellent points.

 
Very good and reasonable take.  The only thing else that 'could' have factored into trading to SF over CLE are a 'rumor' about difficult negotiations with the former CLE front office on the Jamie Collins deal where BB got frustrated with the former Browns front office but nothing has been confirmed.

Reiss makes excellent points.
It has been a long time but BB's tenure in Cleveland did not end on a high note...I'm sure he was in no rush to give them Jimmy G besides the fact they are in the AFC...

 
It has been a long time but BB's tenure in Cleveland did not end on a high note...I'm sure he was in no rush to give them Jimmy G besides the fact they are in the AFC...
The team that Belichick coached became the Ravens...  Not sure what, if any, tie to the "new" Browns BB would have.

ETA:  BB often takes criticism for his time in Cleveland but he did pretty well for a dumpster fire that was leaving town.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
it would be ironic for something to happen in the next few months .... Brady exits into retirement early, and JimmyG signs in the off-season longterm back with Patriots ...

Pats got the draft pick AND the player both - shark move 

 
it would be ironic for something to happen in the next few months .... Brady exits into retirement early, and JimmyG signs in the off-season longterm back with Patriots ...

Pats got the draft pick AND the player both - shark move 
He cannot sign with the patriots because the 49ers have control over him.

they would franchise him if they can’t sign him long term.

This is the 743rd time someone has described an impossible scenario as a shark move.

the shark move was the 49ers obtaining a top flight QB for a 2.05–6-7-8 pick.  

 
it would be ironic for something to happen in the next few months .... Brady exits into retirement early
But while we’re here, let’s explore this part a little bit, because it’s possible: 

1. Brady, who just saw his personal guru banished from the team, and at odds with his HC, decides to hang up the cleats & walk gracefully into the sunset with his supermodel wife & beautiful children & mountains of $. 

2. Belichick decides to hang up his whistle because he now has no Brady & is at odds with Bob Kraft. 

3. Patriots go 3-13, Niners win the SuperBowl. (Ok, this last part is a stretch, but would be icing on the cake). 

 
Let me get this straight - you’d rather have rather have a “chance” at 1 SB win with Brady, than have 2 guaranteed SB wins with Garapolo?  :unsure:

no offense, but that’s crazypants.

Lets say Brady gets that 1 sack too many that so many older QBs get (Montana, Garcia with back injuries, Young with concussions) - you’re gonna have so much more fun as a fan watching Huard captain your team to a 6-10 season as compared to watching TWO GUARANTEED SUPERBOWL WINS from JimmyG?

if yes, you’re not a football fan, and you’re not a patriots fan. You’re a Tom Brady fan. You need to get a life-sized Fathead of Brady for your wall & whisper sweet nothings to it. Maybe get one of those oversized teddy bears & slap a Brady jersy on it to cuddle with. 

Because that just makes none sense to me. We, as fans of a team, want to watch the best product we can watch. We want our teams to win superbowls.

Perhaps it’s a byproduct of being a pats fan - you’re so spoiled by winning superbowls that you expect to win them and don’t realize how rare it is for other teams. 

Who knows. But the “I’d rather lose with Brady than win with JimmyG”  (guaranteed, no less) is not a concept I can fathom. 

To each their own though. 
wut

 
Someone wins the Superbowl every year.  Winning one is awesome and winning the first one was a feeling like no other.  Every Superbowl the patriots have won has been unique and awesome in its own way.  The first against the rams was surreal.  The second against the Panthers was one of the best fourth quarters ever. The eagles win to cement the dynasty.  The Seahawks to show they could still win one ending on a single play. The falcons comeback.  I can't even pick a favorite. 

But 

Even though this is the greatest player/ coach dynasty the NFL has ever seen, there are still records to be broken and records that can be put out of reach. 

Brady is 5,971 yards and 53 touchdowns away from the career records. 

He's won 220 games, 20 more than manning and 21 more than Favre, and sets that record further out of reach every year.  To put that in context, someone could go 19-0 every year of their 12 year career and that would only be 218.  And Brady is still going. 

He's been to 11 conference championship games in 15 years he's played (not counting 2000 and 2008) and could make it 12 in 16 with a single playoff win this year.  

He's gone to 7 Superbowls in the 15 years he's played and could make it 8 in 16 with two playoff wins this year.  Think about how sick that is.  

He's won 5 Superbowl rings, one more would put him ahead of Haley and tie him individually with the entire  franchise that currently has the most Superbowl wins. 

And he could do it all while playing for a single coach and a single owner on a single team. 

Ask a Colts fan how it felt watching manning set all his records in Denver, and they'll say great... but not as great as it would have been watching it happen in a colts uniform. Ask a 49ers fan how they felt watching Montana in Kansas city or worse yet a green bay fan watching Favre in Minnesota.  If Brady had been traded to another team, or if he retired as a patriot without trying to set those records, I'd have been disappointed - how could you not.  This is already a legendary dynasty, but another title, and records that will never be broken, that's something very few fans will ever get to enjoy. 

I know that a Superbowl title is something a lot of fans hope to enjoy even once, and two is more than most fans can hope to enjoy when a third of the league has never even won one. 

We're talking about transcendent greatness though. I don't know how you give up a chance to set unbreakable records.  Trading a Superbowl ring with Jimmy g for a chance at one more with Brady isn't even a decision, trading two and I'd still take the chance for Brady to see his career to fruition in a patriots uniform.  There's a very real chance that Brady wins two more on his own, and even if he goes out in the first round of the playoffs and falls off completely I'll still believe they did the right thing at the time they had to make the decision.  

 
No way they don't franchise Garoppolo both this year and next. He might become the richest quarterback this side of Stafford.  

 
No way they don't franchise Garoppolo both this year and next. He might become the richest quarterback this side of Stafford.  
I think they'l sign him outright this off-season and skip the franchise tag. Jimmy will be locked up as a 49er for a long time before training camp starts next year. Mark it down.

 
I think they'l sign him outright this off-season and skip the franchise tag. Jimmy will be locked up as a 49er for a long time before training camp starts next year. Mark it down.
Yeah, I was commenting on him getting back to the Pats. I agree with you.  

 
as far as NE keeping Brady over JG ... bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Brady is the greatest QB ever and still playing at a high level. A known commodity. 

JG is good but there's no way to predict if he will ever attain the level that Brady is at ... even at this advanced age.

BB likely already has a college QB or two tabbed to groom as the heir to Brady. I expect that player to be drafted in the 2nd round this year (maybe with the pick from the 49ers)

Brady likely will give said QB 2 or 3 seasons of mentoring and then they will have another Garopollo in house with the appropriate timing to resign as the starter.

 
The team that Belichick coached became the Ravens...  Not sure what, if any, tie to the "new" Browns BB would have.

ETA:  BB often takes criticism for his time in Cleveland but he did pretty well for a dumpster fire that was leaving town.
He was not well-liked there...his decision to dump Bernie for Vinny did not endear him to the Cleveland faithful...my guess is the fact that the Browns are in the AFC did not help their chances and the BB/time in Cleveland wasn't too much of an issue but who knows...here is is a tweet from Daniel Jeremiah hinting at that:

Daniel Jeremiah✔@MoveTheSticks

Would love to know if Browns had any shot at Jimmy G. Some around the league believe BB wouldn't consider "helping" them at QB. Old feelings

8:08 PM - Oct 30, 2017

 
as far as NE keeping Brady over JG ... bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Brady is the greatest QB ever and still playing at a high level. A known commodity. 

JG is good but there's no way to predict if he will ever attain the level that Brady is at ... even at this advanced age.

BB likely already has a college QB or two tabbed to groom as the heir to Brady. I expect that player to be drafted in the 2nd round this year (maybe with the pick from the 49ers)

Brady likely will give said QB 2 or 3 seasons of mentoring and then they will have another Garopollo in house with the appropriate timing to resign as the starter.
Sounds like wishful thinking.  I've seen teams struggle for decades trying to find the right guy.

That being said, I don't think they had much choice with JG.  Brady is still Brady and JG wanted to be paid and play. 

 
I suppose all this overthinking is entertaining, but this is just a logical win-win for everyone involved.

NE trades JG for a good pick...they had a very good backup for years.

SF gets an already developed QB that is looking more and more like a top 5 young QB (up there with Wentz, Goff, Watson, Wilson)

JG gets a chance to start and make a lot of money. I like the fact that he WANTED to leave NE to start, says a lot about his drive to succeed outside of filling his hands with Brady's rings.

 
I suppose all this overthinking is entertaining, but this is just a logical win-win for everyone involved.

NE trades JG for a good pick...they had a very good backup for years.

SF gets an already developed QB that is looking more and more like a top 5 young QB (up there with Wentz, Goff, Watson, Wilson)

JG gets a chance to start and make a lot of money. I like the fact that he WANTED to leave NE to start, says a lot about his drive to succeed outside of filling his hands with Brady's rings.
One thing to add: The Pats got to control where they sent Jimmy G - Get him out of the division/conference so he doesn't come back to haunt them down the line. That's the one part of this deal that has been undersold -- New England knew exactly what they had in Garoppolo and would rather have him play for a team that they won't compete with for the next several years.  

 
One thing to add: The Pats got to control where they sent Jimmy G - Get him out of the division/conference so he doesn't come back to haunt them down the line. That's the one part of this deal that has been undersold -- New England knew exactly what they had in Garoppolo and would rather have him play for a team that they won't compete with for the next several years.  
Well, BB did. He didn’t want to trade him, reportedly. 

The Pats seemingly didn’t know what they had, or were unwilling to let Brady go a year too early rather than a year too late. 

I understand NEP’s loyalty to Brady, and I also believe that in the long run (if that report is accurate) BB will be proven right about who they should have kept vs who they should have dealt.

But that said, yes - I agree that BB sent him to SF partly to get him out of the AFC.

Interestingly, the day Shanahan signed with the Niners, the Garapolo rumor mill started on local radio. So interesting to see how it all worked out. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Well, BB did. He didn’t want to trade him, reportedly. 
Correct. He was given an offer, but it wasn’t starter money for sure. Jimmy was ready to start and get paid accordingly. Wasn’t going to happen with Tom there for an unknown amount of time. 

 
I've stayed away from the tradeoffs with the 2018 rooks since I like to keep an open mind until the combine, but outside of Mayfield I'm not convinced any of them are very good.

 
He was not well-liked there...his decision to dump Bernie for Vinny did not endear him to the Cleveland faithful...my guess is the fact that the Browns are in the AFC did not help their chances and the BB/time in Cleveland wasn't too much of an issue but who knows...here is is a tweet from Daniel Jeremiah hinting at that:

Daniel Jeremiah✔@MoveTheSticks

Would love to know if Browns had any shot at Jimmy G. Some around the league believe BB wouldn't consider "helping" them at QB. Old feelings

8:08 PM - Oct 30, 2017
How funny would that have been? We all have that former company or boss we hope to get even with one day. 

Belicheck calls the Browns and says " The 49ers are going to give us their 2nd rounder for JG" 

Browns reply "perfect we will give you out 2nd rounder, it is a better pick."

Belicheck " How about your 1st rounder or I hang up this phone."

Browns " Bill we can't do that. Is there anything else we can add to sweeten the deal? ....

Browns " Bill are you still there?"

 
The situations were completely different.

With Montana, he was MVP in 1990 and then played just 1 game in the 1991 and 1992 seasons due to injury... and Young played so well in his absence that he was MVP in 1992. Brady has not missed time due to injury and there was no indication that JG was a HOF caliber QB as there had been with Young. Apples and oranges.

With Manning, he missed the entire 2011 season, the Colts went 2-14 and landed the #1 pick, and there was a generational QB available in the draft. And at the time the Colts had to make their decision, it was not a given that Manning would come back completely healthy. Apples and oranges.

With Favre, he made the Pro Bowl in 2007 after not making it the previous 3 seasons, but he had not been 1st team All Pro or won a major award since 1997. Then he officially retired in March 2008, after having waffled about retiring in the previous offseason. Apples and oranges.

I don't necessarily disagree with your position, but I don't think the other situations you referenced were truly analogous.

I also think it is (and should be) hard for a franchise to push its all time greatest player and one of the few greatest players in NFL history out, even if his play is slipping... and his play really hasn't slipped much if at all.
Again, this isn't really relevant because I was saying even with the future knowledge that  that Montana/Manning/Favre all had at least 1 elite season left in them, they STILL don't regret making that decision.

It's just emotion, nothing more.  We have two Patriots fans in here saying they'd rather have a chance at winning one title with Brady than two guaranteed ones with Garoppolo.  That's just emotion.  The same way that if I had told Packers' fans "hey I went into the future and saw that Favre still has a 4200 yard, 33 TD, 7 INT season left in him" they would have said screw this Rodgers guy, I'd rather have one more season with Favre playing like that than 2 guaranteed titles from Rodgers!

But looking back on it, with the decision already made and the emotion taken out of it, they are of course overwhelmingly happy with the decision to keep Rodgers and let Favre walk, even though with the same information at the time (through some ability to see the future) they would have made the opposite decision due to that emotion.

The front office is supposed to be able to separate itself from that emotion that the fans can't and make the best decision for the team.  It all makes a lot more sense now that reports are coming out that Belichick was furiously against trading Garoppolo.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
He was not well-liked there...his decision to dump Bernie for Vinny did not endear him to the Cleveland faithful...
This was a big part of why he was shown the door in Cleveland, even though like most things Bill does, it proved to be the correct move.

 
This was a big part of why he was shown the door in Cleveland, even though like most things Bill does, it proved to be the correct move.
Belichick was not shown the door in Cleveland.

The team formerly known as the Cleveland Browns had moved to Baltimore and had been operating for three months in Baltimore when Art Model fired Belichick.

The team in Baltimore fired Belichick.

Belichick was not fired in Cleveland, he was fired in Baltimore by that owner for that team.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2016/02/15/bill-belichick-fired-browns-cleveland/

...Art Modell, then-owner of the Cleveland Browns, took to a podium at Camden Yards in Baltimore and announced that he was relocating the team to Baltimore for the 1996 NFL season.

Three months later, on February 15th, 1996, Bill Belichick was fired.

An historic and proud NFL franchise was on its way out of town, and a future sure-fire Hall Of Fame coach was unceremoniously dismissed.

 
How funny would that have been? We all have that former company or boss we hope to get even with one day. 

Belicheck calls the Browns and says " The 49ers are going to give us their 2nd rounder for JG" 

Browns reply "perfect we will give you out 2nd rounder, it is a better pick."

Belicheck " How about your 1st rounder or I hang up this phone."

Browns " Bill we can't do that. Is there anything else we can add to sweeten the deal? ....

Browns " Bill are you still there?"
Always fun to kick somebody when they're down, but the fact is, the current Cleveland team never had any relationship whatsoever with BB.  I suppose you could fabricate something where he holds a grudge against some remaining media members... 

 
Always fun to kick somebody when they're down, but the fact is, the current Cleveland team never had any relationship whatsoever with BB.  I suppose you could fabricate something where he holds a grudge against some remaining media members... 
:lmao:

 
funny how loads of people in here were saying "no way" JG was worth a 1st rd pick at draft time last year  ...

but 8 games into the season people are saying JG was worth way more than a 2nd rd pick.

Wouldn't it make sense that a players value would be less as he's closer to the end of his contract? 

Did those 8 games warming the bench cause his value to rise somehow? 

 
One of the writers was quoted on the radio stating that the trade of JG had to meet a certain criteria for BB.

1) Team in need of a QB

2) Team outside of conference (so NFC)

3) Team with a projected high draft pick 

4) Team with a capable backup QB to send in return

CLE did not qualify as a trade partner so all the folks saying BB should have shopped JG to CLE for a first, ... he had his reasons not to.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top