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Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Say what? You're going to give him a test run and then pay him the average salary of the top 5 QBs in the NFL to keep him one more year, fully knowing that using the FT on him is going to really piss him off because it denies him the ability to negotiate a long term contract with a huge signing bonus (because if you tagged him and are paying him that much for 1 year he must have looked great in his "try out").
I'm sorry, but that's just not a very well thought out game plan.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
DEN just drafted Lynch in the first round last year and has Seimien to compete with him.
JAX is committed to hiring a HC who will work with Bortles. They won't go after a Rd 1 QB
FA QBs include Glennon, who TB will not keep, Cutler who like him or not can play at a starting level in the NFL - and whoever picks him up would like him if they are doing so - will most probably be out there also
AZ still has Palmer coming back. So it isn't like the cupboard is bare. A rookie would fit in nicely there, or they could just as easily hold off to next year
Cousins likely sticks with WAS.
That covers 6 of the 10. The rookies include Kizer, Trubisky, Webb, Kaaya, Watson, and Mahomes who just declared.
The numbers are not as bad as you make it out to be.
.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The FT is an option if you can't work out something long term or if you still aren't 100% sold on a long term deal, but value him enough not to want him to just walk away. The Redskins just did this with Kirk Cousins, just this very past season, and will now likely work out a long term deal with him now that he proved himself over the last two years. Perhaps you missed that. Maybe you should let them know it wasn't a good game plan.Bronco Billy said:
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
They just traded for Cousins and then tagged him? Huh, I thought they had drafted him and had a few years to observe his skills and fit in WAS. I guess that proves you can't trust the fake news on the interwebs.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Wow. Your reputation is well earned.
Cousins struggled early in his career, then had one good season in the last year of his rookie contract (Garoppolo will also be in the last year of his rookie contract in 2017). Cousins was then tagged since they weren't able, or more likely willing to, work out a long term deal since the sample size of him playing well was limited (just like Garoppolo's sample size would be limited). So if a team traded for Garoppolo they would get one year at a dirt cheap price to see if he can build on what he did this past year. Here's where it gets a bit tricky so try and follow. If his new team wasn't willing to commit long term at big money after just one season but he played well enough that they wanted to keep him around, they would have the option to tag him - JUST LIKE THE SKINS JUST DID WITH COUSINS (the situations are similar but not 100% the same, sorry if that confuses you a bit).
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I'll let it be since I think you're arguing just to argue, other than to point out the irony of your comment about me and your tenor in your responses.
Have a nice day.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Shefter is a pawn. "Starting point" is just that. I can't fault Belichick for setting a high price. Gives him plenty of room to come down. Shefter knows this as well and is just full of ####.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
if the best offer comes from the Broncos, does BB click the button?
The Ref
Footballguy
Bossman
Footballguy
Can't imagine a team wanting either of those guys over Garopollo. Why would a team in need of a QB NOT offer that pick for him?
If the rookie QB class is as weak as it seems, I'm thinking there will be a bidding war for Garopollo's services. Patriots may get even more than a 1st and 4th.
Gandalf
Footballguy
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I like Glennon but I think Garopollo has the much better all around skillset and "head". While not having to give up a pick is a bonus, don't forget that Glennon could command $16-17MM a year, while Garopollo still has one more year on his contract at under $900k. I think it's an interesting situation for sure. I hate the Pats, so I really don't want to see them get a "free" first round pick, and as I've said I still think it ends up being a second at best, but I could surely see them getting a late(ish) first and wouldn't see it as a huge mistake by the team that did it.
Warhogs
Footballguy
I tend to agree with Bronco Billy. Claiming 10 teams is a bit over the top. Denver seems to be in good shape. Bortles looked like a stud 2 seasons ago so I doubt Jax is ready to bail on him. In looking at needs and what is available RGIII might get one more shot to prove himself. We didn't see too much of him before yet another injury. Cutler probably turns up as a starting option for someone who misses out on all available. Tony Romo maybe becomes available although I think Dallas could just keep him around. Perhaps Denver makes Lynch available for a first round pick if they were happy with Seimien although I think Elway keeps both. Certainly there will be teams needing some better QB but I think the 10 is an over statement as well.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If you are JG and his agent, how on Earth would you want to go through this season and risk either not playing well or getting hurt and not having much of a next contract?
You would have to think there would be SOME common sense there, and JG would be signing a deal upon trade to mitigate that enormous risk. Even if he actually is a decent QB there would still be enormous risk of sucking on a new team with new coaches, new players, and what would most likely be a fairly dysfunctional organization.
For that reason alone I think, if traded, it would be incredibly unlikely the franchise tag would come into play. That, and the obvious notion that any team trading for him would like to have a deal in place. It would make sense for both sides to NOT have the contract play out.
I remember a few years back when the Browns were offering Brian Hoyer a contract extension during the season that he idiotically turned down, and never saw that type of money again. Made no sense. But I guess sometimes players are stupid and think trying to get top dollar is more important than "just" being set for like for 10 llifetimes.
You would have to think there would be SOME common sense there, and JG would be signing a deal upon trade to mitigate that enormous risk. Even if he actually is a decent QB there would still be enormous risk of sucking on a new team with new coaches, new players, and what would most likely be a fairly dysfunctional organization.
For that reason alone I think, if traded, it would be incredibly unlikely the franchise tag would come into play. That, and the obvious notion that any team trading for him would like to have a deal in place. It would make sense for both sides to NOT have the contract play out.
I remember a few years back when the Browns were offering Brian Hoyer a contract extension during the season that he idiotically turned down, and never saw that type of money again. Made no sense. But I guess sometimes players are stupid and think trying to get top dollar is more important than "just" being set for like for 10 llifetimes.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Maybe 10 teams don't need a QB, but at least that many teams are in need of a QUALITY QB.
I can't see Dallas keeping Romo. His cap money seems like it could be used elsewhere on what looks to be a nice window of opportunity for them.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Exactly, "might". Precisely why you take the nice contract when you can, especially when you are an unproven average talent.
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Warhogs
Footballguy
I'm not sure many teams are sold on Garoppolo being a quality QB. At least to the extent of trading a 1st and a 4th. More likely teams will settle on some of the other guys available and keep their picks. Houston paid the big money for what they thought was the best available QB last year and yet here they are on that list of 10 teams needing a QB. I will just say I seriously doubt New England gets what they are hoping for.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I would think at best they get a 3rd or 4th rd pick for him, but obviously I could be wrong. Most bring up the Bradford situation, but I also believe most GMs view Bradford as being better than JG. I believe teams fear another Osweiler situation.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
For what it's worth (or as they say, that and 8 bucks will get you a latte), I heard an interview with Vic Carucci the other day. He is a long time beat writer covering the Bills, used to cover the Browns, and wrote for NFL.com.
He said from his discussion with people around the league that NE would have no problem getting a 1st and a 4th for JG. He also said the Bills and Jets would do it in a heartbeat, but the Pats would never trade him within the division. He also mentioned that Cleveland would be interested, as would the team that ends up with McDaniels.
Part of the rationale was that JG's stock has gone up, even in limited playing time. Good pocket presence, decision making, quick to make multiple reads, doesn't put the ball up for grabs, can make a lot of different throws, accurate with decent touch, good footwork and velocity. Only thing that could use some work was holding on to the ball a little too long on occasion. Basically more polished than a rookie coming in and more upside than the usual suspects that would be circulating already at the pro level.
He said he felt teams would view him as a potential starter for the next 8-10 years. He was not fully convinced that the Pats would trade him, saying that they would have to be wowed by the offer. He did say that NE loved Brissett, and if they felt comfortable enough in him they might look to move JG.
That's his opinion. Others will vary.
He said from his discussion with people around the league that NE would have no problem getting a 1st and a 4th for JG. He also said the Bills and Jets would do it in a heartbeat, but the Pats would never trade him within the division. He also mentioned that Cleveland would be interested, as would the team that ends up with McDaniels.
Part of the rationale was that JG's stock has gone up, even in limited playing time. Good pocket presence, decision making, quick to make multiple reads, doesn't put the ball up for grabs, can make a lot of different throws, accurate with decent touch, good footwork and velocity. Only thing that could use some work was holding on to the ball a little too long on occasion. Basically more polished than a rookie coming in and more upside than the usual suspects that would be circulating already at the pro level.
He said he felt teams would view him as a potential starter for the next 8-10 years. He was not fully convinced that the Pats would trade him, saying that they would have to be wowed by the offer. He did say that NE loved Brissett, and if they felt comfortable enough in him they might look to move JG.
That's his opinion. Others will vary.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Is JG better than Bradford?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Is a future 1st of a team who thought they were super bowl bound who just lost their QB with no other QBs available closing in the on the start of the season worth the same as a 1st rounder in this draft?
In case that isn't clear, the Vikings overpaid for Bradford based on the situation at that exact time.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Exactly. I don't think JG's value as an unproven backup is worth more than an average to below average starting QB on a team desperate for a QB in a win-now season.
Why would they trade him for a third round or worse yet a fourth round pick when they could just hold onto him as a backup for a year, let him walk and receive a third round compensatory pick? They are already guaranteed a third round compensatory pick at worst so they would be gaining nothing.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I actually think JG is worth a lot more right now than Bradford was a year ago. I also think the Vikings were total idiots trading a 1st for Bradford and badly overpaid.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
There's no guarantee that they get a 3rd round pick. He'd have to sign for Osweiler type money to give them that, and there is zero guarantee of that, but yes this is the smart move and likely the move that happens
I agree on the Vikings. Disagree on JG given the QB strength in this draft
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I would say you are correct, but they did just let Collins walk under pretty much the same circumstances.
Now, I think this situation is different because they likely traded Collins for "other" reasons, so I would certainly agree that JG isn't going anywhere for less than a 1st, which means he probably isn't going anywhere.
But, if a team does trade "1st round value" for him, I can't really fault them for it.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I am not talking about relative to this draft vs. last years draft, I mean in general. JG is worth a dollar while Bradford was worth 9 cents. I thought Bradford was hot garbage.
massraider
Footballguy
First, no they aren't. They aren't guaranteed anything. They cannot even count on anything. The 3rd round pick compensation depends on several factors, including contract average, playing time, and contract compared to other free agents.
If the Pats sign any other FA, or multiple free agents after the 2017 season, or if JG gets injured and doesn't start for his new team, or if JG doesn't get a massive deal because a new team decides two games isn't enough of a sample size (hard to imagine), then the Pats would not get a 3rd.
The 3rd, by the way, that they might get, is at the end of the 3rd. So, if the Pats can get a 2017 3rd rounder early in the round, vs. an early 4th rounder in 2019, maybe, yeah, that might make sense.
The odds of them not receiving a compensatory third for him are slim to none. Assuming Brady doesn't get injured, JG never sees the field again other than preseason and they let him walk some team is going to sign him and give him a big contract to be their starter. That is a certainty. If you want to believe that some QB starved team that wouldn't have to give up any compensation for him asides from a market level qb contract wouldn't jump at the chance to sign him then you are a fool. The only thing that could derail the Pats getting a third comp pick would be an injury to JG or Brady.
The Patriots aren't stupid and realize they most likely would get a third compensatory pick when he leaves. They are not trading him for a pick in the third that moves them up 10-20 spots? over the pick they would get for him anyways when he walks or a fourth. If you want to argue they would take a second rounder fine but a third/fourth is ludicrous.
massraider
Footballguy
As I stated above, other factors can enter into the Pats not getting a 3rd comp pick, aside from Jimmy getting a big deal. You either didn't read that, or ignored it. Either way, calling something a certainty that might happen a year from now is so silly it's not worth arguing.
As ever, I continue to be very surprised that so many people believe two starts and three years as a scout team QB is worth a massive payday, and a huge trade ransom.
As ever, I continue to be very surprised that so many people believe two starts and three years as a scout team QB is worth a massive payday, and a huge trade ransom.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
The Bears (and maybe some other teams) should interview McDaniel for coach and then ask him if he wants JG and what he would give up for him.
And I find it very surprising that someone would think the Pats would give him away for basically nothing which is exactly what value a third or fourth would equal. On top of that they would be losing a quality back up who knows the system and has a dirt cheap contract.You can throw out all the scenarios you want but there is a very high probability that he would get them a third comp pick after signing in free agency. That is reality and I'm sure the Pats are well aware of all the scenarios. If the best deal they are offered is a third he isn't going anywhere.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Hmmm the two teams who would gladly give up that compensation in a nanosecond are the two teams the Pats would never trade him to. Nothing suspicious about that at all...
flapgreen
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I think it's going to be in the middle....
CLE moves 12 for JG and the Pats 1st round pick.
Warhogs
Footballguy
I suppose we all need to keep in mind that a first round pick can carry a huge difference in value between the #1 pick and the #32 pick. The more I think about it I think I have been selling him a bit short, I'm not a big believer because I think the amount of playing time he has had makes him largely unknown at this point. He was drafted by the Patriots as a 2nd round pick in 2014 so I will assume late (I didn't research enough to know exactly when). Factoring where he was drafted, the limited PT he has seen, and what his compensatory value might be, I can see how one gets to the suggested asking price. For NE to move him you might be looking at late round 1 value in total for it to make sense for NE to trade him this year when they can just keep him around as a promising backup to Brady for 1 more year.
In the end I'm not sold on him because we just haven't seen enough but as the QB spot dries up I can see him being looked at toward the end of round 1 so it could happen. Maybe if a team like CLE goes for something other than QB first overall then that Eagles pick could come into play or the top pick in round 2 in a package could be considered.
In the end I'm not sold on him because we just haven't seen enough but as the QB spot dries up I can see him being looked at toward the end of round 1 so it could happen. Maybe if a team like CLE goes for something other than QB first overall then that Eagles pick could come into play or the top pick in round 2 in a package could be considered.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Niles Standish
Footballguy
I'm not sure I'd say McDaniels is one of the best OCs in the league. After 2008 it sure seemed that way, but then again he looked pretty bad as an OC in St Louis. It's hard to give much credit to what his Brady offenses do if you think Brady is one of the best of all time. But I'll give you it's an ideal situation and McDaniels might be one of (if not) the best OCs out there.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
How many OC's out there have had teams score 589 and 557 points in a season? That may be more an outgrowth of TB and BB, but there aren't a lot of guys available with those results.
