Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (1 Viewer)

[Thunderlips]

I think BB is actually scheming the league again.....

He takes McDaniels back after he fails as a HC.  

BB then spends the past few years basically doing McDaniels work for him; building him to HC status again.

A BB advocate, Chip Kelly... gets a job in SF and at the bequest of his Dark Lord......purposefully stinks up the joint and get fired.

McDaniels gets the SF HC job.

McDaniels then gives up a kings ransom in draft picks to his Dark Master for JG; we're talking a trade that puts the Rickey Williams one to shame.

McDaniels stinks up the joint in SF over the next couple of years...AFTER getting JG his big money.

In a couple of year...McDaniels gets fired and then then comes back to sit at the feet of his Master..AGAIN......on a team that is ripe with talent from their plundering of SF.

The capper will be when, JG....reviled for his horrible play in SF...will also return to NE, win the starting job after Brady retires and becomes an ALL-PRO.

BB is playing chess....nay...he's playing that three level Star Trek chess while the rest of the league is playing Tic-Tac-Toe. 

 

[Bad_Mo]

I think BB is actually scheming the league again.....

He takes McDaniels back after he fails as a HC.  

BB then spends the past few years basically doing McDaniels work for him; building him to HC status again.

A BB advocate, Chip Kelly... gets a job in SF and at the bequest of his Dark Lord......purposefully stinks up the joint and get fired.

McDaniels gets the SF HC job.

McDaniels then gives up a kings ransom in draft picks to his Dark Master for JG; we're talking a trade that puts the Rickey Williams one to shame.

McDaniels stinks up the joint in SF over the next couple of years...AFTER getting JG his big money.

In a couple of year...McDaniels gets fired and then then comes back to sit at the feet of his Master..AGAIN......on a team that is ripe with talent from their plundering of SF.

The capper will be when, JG....reviled for his horrible play in SF...will also return to NE, win the starting job after Brady retires and becomes an ALL-PRO.

BB is playing chess....nay...he's playing that three level Star Trek chess while the rest of the league is playing Tic-Tac-Toe. 

Interesting.

McDaniels to SF as HC.  Kelly signed by NE as McDaniels' replacement.  Brady, not JG, traded to SF (his hometown).  All of this netting NE like 3 first round picks from SF (2 for Brady and 1 for McDaniels).

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

The Bears (and maybe some other teams) should interview McDaniel for coach and then ask him if he wants JG and what he would give up for him.

Pats are sending McDaniels out to interview specifically to drive up the price on JG. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Is JG better than Bradford? 

Well we can't be sure really, but in a vacuum I'd take him in a heartbeat over Bradford. We already know Bradford is a below average QB. JG has potential at least and looks better (in a small sample size).

 

[Interseptopus]

Well we can't be sure really, but in a vacuum I'd take him in a heartbeat over Bradford. We already know Bradford is a below average QB. JG has potential at least and looks better (in a small sample size).

But consensus is that MIN overpaid by a lot for BRadford. So why what (aside from NE trying to get the most out of an asset on their roster) would justify asking for more than what MIN had? MIN at least knew what they were getting. Kind of. PHI obviously fleeced them based on their desperation 

 

[Thunderlips]

But consensus is that MIN overpaid by a lot for BRadford. So why what (aside from NE trying to get the most out of an asset on their roster) would justify asking for more than what MIN had? MIN at least knew what they were getting. Kind of. PHI obviously fleeced them based on their desperation 

Well we can't be sure really, but in a vacuum I'd take him in a heartbeat over Bradford. We already know Bradford is a below average QB. JG has potential at least and looks better (in a small sample size).

Did Sammy play that bad this year?  Maybe someone can give more in depth numbers that show he didnt.....but a cursory look at his numbers indicate he had a fine season; particularly taking into account all the other injuries on that O.  

 

[wikkidpissah]

Did Sammy play that bad this year?  Maybe someone can give more in depth numbers that show he didnt.....but a cursory look at his numbers indicate he had a fine season; particularly taking into account all the other injuries on that O.  

no line, no run game, yet he was still able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he will never be a qb who helps you win.

 

[Thunderlips]

no line, no run game, yet he was still able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he will never be a qb who helps you win.

Noone's saying he's going to be or is Aaron Rodgers...but I just can't dismiss a 6 year starter for a guy who's played a game and a half.

FLAME ON!!!.....But thru their first six seasons and comparable age (29) Sammy Sleeves personal numbers aren't exactly getting blown out the water by Tom Brady.  

 

[Interseptopus]

Did Sammy play that bad this year?  Maybe someone can give more in depth numbers that show he didnt.....but a cursory look at his numbers indicate he had a fine season; particularly taking into account all the other injuries on that O.  

6th in QB rating
1st in completion percentage
16th in Yards
18th in TDs

So statistically, no, he didn't do all that bad. But he also lead his team to an 8-8 record. Choked when games were on the line (throwing a 2 point conversion out of the end zone vs GB). Trading a 1st round pick for a QB should yield better results IMO. Especially when they were possible division favorites going into the season

 

[ROCKET]

Noone's saying he's going to be or is Aaron Rodgers...but I just can't dismiss a 6 year starter for a guy who's played a game and a half.

FLAME ON!!!.....But thru their first six seasons and comparable age (29) Sammy Sleeves personal numbers aren't exactly getting blown out the water by Tom Brady.  

So you're saying there's a chance he ends up arguably the GOAT?

 

[Thunderlips]

6th in QB rating
1st in completion percentage
16th in Yards
18th in TDs

So statistically, no, he didn't do all that bad. But he also lead his team to an 8-8 record. Choked when games were on the line (throwing a 2 point conversion out of the end zone vs GB). Trading a 1st round pick for a QB should yield better results IMO. Especially when they were possible division favorites going into the season

I don't know....I'd imagine there wouldn't be many QBs who would thrive behind that O-Line. Losing the ability to run the ball and making a statue like Bradford have to run for his life usually isn't going to yield execptional results.

 

[Thunderlips]

So you're saying there's a chance he ends up arguably the GOAT?

I'm saying ....there's a chance. 

Brady's playoff hardware doesn't even warrant a comparison in the long run and his post age 30 numbers destroy anything Bradford has done........but his early years are in line with one of the GOATs.  

 

[wikkidpissah]

Noone's saying he's going to be or is Aaron Rodgers...but I just can't dismiss a 6 year starter for a guy who's played a game and a half.

FLAME ON!!!.....But thru their first six seasons and comparable age (29) Sammy Sleeves personal numbers aren't exactly getting blown out the water by Tom Brady.  

'cept in wins. my rough count says 80-32 there

 

[Thunderlips]

'cept in wins. my rough count says 80-32 there

No doubt. I was talking counting and average personal stats. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

No doubt. I was talking counting and average personal stats. 

well, SB leads the field in average personal stats....

 

[Thunderlips]

well, SB leads the field in average personal stats....

Brady's were almost as average those first 6 years, Bro. 

 

[ZWK]

Brady and Bradford's first 6 seasons, sorted by ANY/A+ (PFR's favorite passing efficiency stat, which is scaled so that each year's average is 100 and about 6 players score 115+ each year):

ANY/A+    Player        Year
118    Tom Brady    2004
116    Tom Brady    2005
108    Tom Brady    2006
107    Tom Brady    2003
105    Tom Brady    2002
103    Sam Bradford    2016
102    Tom Brady    2001
102    Sam Bradford    2013
97    Sam Bradford    2012
95    Sam Bradford    2015
88    Sam Bradford    2010
82    Sam Bradford    2011

 

[wikkidpissah]

Brady's were almost as average those first 6 years, Bro. 

and that bores me even more than it fascinates you. one can seemingly pull stats out dey butt to support any nonsense - it's replacing baseball as the national pastime and patriotism as the last refuge of scoundrels. your boy's ceiling is Alex Smith - God bless his unlikely efffort to reach it.

 

[Thunderlips]

and that bores me even more than it fascinates you. one can seemingly pull stats out dey butt to support any nonsense - it's replacing baseball as the national pastime and patriotism as the last refuge of scoundrels. your boy's ceiling is Alex Smith - God bless his unlikely efffort to reach it.

Never said he was my boy nor that it fascinates me.  

 

[wikkidpissah]

Never said he was my boy nor that it fascinates me.  

my bad, then.

 

[Anarchy99]

Since the big comparison apparently is Sam Bradford, the Vikings gave up a first and a forth for a guy that by most statistical measure had performed as a below average QB. Sure, he might have been an uber high draft pick and been paid a lot of money, but that didn't make him a good pro QB.

Through his first 5 seasons, Bradford had an 80.1 QB rating. The league average in that time was 84.2. While I agree that wins and losses should be more of a team statistic, his career record at that point was 25-37-1. To me at least, it should have been pretty clear who and what Sam Bradford was. Yet the Vikings traded for him anyway. He had a decent season this year in Minnesota. IIRC, he is due $17 or $18 million next year.

The other comparison being made is with Brock Osweiler. He had been in the league for 4 years and posted a 5-2 record with an 86.0 passer rating. In his time in the league, the average passer rating was 85.9, so Brock was about as close to average as you could get. Yet Houston signed him for what they signed him for.

We have seen what teams invest for average QBs. And we know how crazy they get to move up to get rookie QBs. Who knows what NE could get for JG, but the more I research, the more I think it wouldn't be crazy to get a first and change.

 

[Bossman]

If you are JG and his agent, how on Earth would you want to go through this season and risk either not playing well or getting hurt and not having much of a next contract?

You would have to think there would be SOME common sense there, and JG would be signing a deal upon trade to mitigate that enormous risk.  Even if he actually is a decent QB there would still be enormous risk of sucking on a new team with new coaches, new players, and what would most likely be a fairly dysfunctional organization. 

For that reason alone I think, if traded, it would be incredibly unlikely the franchise tag would come into play.  That, and the obvious notion that any team trading for him would like to  have a deal in place.  It would  make sense for both sides to NOT have the contract play out. 

I remember a few years back when the Browns were offering Brian Hoyer a contract extension during the season that he idiotically turned down, and never saw that type of money again.  Made no sense.  But I guess sometimes players are stupid and think trying to get top dollar is more important than "just" being set for like for 10 llifetimes.

lol ... how on earth. So your saying he's better off not playing and getting a deal after next season ...

then starting somewhere to establish himself as a starting caliber NFL QB ... because he might get hurt. Then no one would sign him? Like Bradford?

Do you really think he wouldn't want to start somewhere because he's afraid that he won't play well? You know a lot of players that prefer to ride the bench in a contract year?

So he's better off getting his next 4/5 year contract based on his 6 qtrs of football that he has under his belt. Gonna break the bank lol.

 

[Spike]

I think BB is actually scheming the league again.....

He takes McDaniels back after he fails as a HC.  

BB then spends the past few years basically doing McDaniels work for him; building him to HC status again.

A BB advocate, Chip Kelly... gets a job in SF and at the bequest of his Dark Lord......purposefully stinks up the joint and get fired.

McDaniels gets the SF HC job.

McDaniels then gives up a kings ransom in draft picks to his Dark Master for JG; we're talking a trade that puts the Rickey Williams one to shame.

McDaniels stinks up the joint in SF over the next couple of years...AFTER getting JG his big money.

In a couple of year...McDaniels gets fired and then then comes back to sit at the feet of his Master..AGAIN......on a team that is ripe with talent from their plundering of SF.

The capper will be when, JG....reviled for his horrible play in SF...will also return to NE, win the starting job after Brady retires and becomes an ALL-PRO.

BB is playing chess....nay...he's playing that three level Star Trek chess while the rest of the league is playing Tic-Tac-Toe. 

Seems like someone picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Did Sammy play that bad this year?  Maybe someone can give more in depth numbers that show he didnt.....but a cursory look at his numbers indicate he had a fine season; particularly taking into account all the other injuries on that O.  

He completed a high percentage of his passes, but for a low ypa. This was one of his better seasons admittedly, but I can still easily name 15-17 starters I'd rather have than him (and then another 5 which would be debatable) which puts him below average.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I don't know....I'd imagine there wouldn't be many QBs who would thrive behind that O-Line. Losing the ability to run the ball and making a statue like Bradford have to run for his life usually isn't going to yield execptional results.

McKinnon started playing very well down the stretch and Asiata is serviceable for what he does.

Bradford has never been to the playoffs and has never stepped up when needed - I thought even his most ardent supporters have grown tired of making excuses for him, but apparently not.

 

[Warhogs]

Since the big comparison apparently is Sam Bradford, the Vikings gave up a first and a forth for a guy that by most statistical measure had performed as a below average QB. Sure, he might have been an uber high draft pick and been paid a lot of money, but that didn't make him a good pro QB.

Through his first 5 seasons, Bradford had an 80.1 QB rating. The league average in that time was 84.2. While I agree that wins and losses should be more of a team statistic, his career record at that point was 25-37-1. To me at least, it should have been pretty clear who and what Sam Bradford was. Yet the Vikings traded for him anyway. He had a decent season this year in Minnesota. IIRC, he is due $17 or $18 million next year.

The other comparison being made is with Brock Osweiler. He had been in the league for 4 years and posted a 5-2 record with an 86.0 passer rating. In his time in the league, the average passer rating was 85.9, so Brock was about as close to average as you could get. Yet Houston signed him for what they signed him for.

We have seen what teams invest for average QBs. And we know how crazy they get to move up to get rookie QBs. Who knows what NE could get for JG, but the more I research, the more I think it wouldn't be crazy to get a first and change.

I don't think looking at Sam Bradford is a good comparison if you are trying to look at what a QB trade value should be.  This trade was made due to injury just before the season started.  There were very little options.  The rookie draft was over and so was free agency.  The Vikings also viewed themselves as strong contenders in the NFC and weren't willing to throw away an entire season before it started. Had they continued how they started out people would be talking about how great that trade was but AP went down, they lost most of their OL along with numerous other injuries.  Still, Bradford set an NFL record for completion percentage and had probably his best season.  I don't think they got killed in this trade.  For the record, I'm a Packers fan.

I really now don't think that Patriots asking price is that far off if that first round pick part of the asking price is at the end of round 1.  I would rather have more playing time from Garoppolo to feel comfortable trading for him but in only takes one team to believe in him to get a deal like that done.

 

[RUSF18]

I don't generally think injuries = fragile because weird things happen. But does anyone have even the slightest bit of concern that Garoppolo didn't even make it through six quarters of action before getting hurt?

 

[ghostguy123]

lol ... how on earth. So your saying he's better off not playing and getting a deal after next season ...

then starting somewhere to establish himself as a starting caliber NFL QB ... because he might get hurt. Then no one would sign him? Like Bradford?

Do you really think he wouldn't want to start somewhere because he's afraid that he won't play well? You know a lot of players that prefer to ride the bench in a contract year?

So he's better off getting his next 4/5 year contract based on his 6 qtrs of football that he has under his belt. Gonna break the bank lol.

Pretty sure you didnt correctly interpret what I posted.

 

[Thunderlips]

McKinnon started playing very well down the stretch and Asiata is serviceable for what he does.

Bradford has never been to the playoffs and has never stepped up when needed - I thought even his most ardent supporters have grown tired of making excuses for him, but apparently not.

How many lineman went down? He lost Diggs for a period. They were counting on (and presumably confident) that ADP was going to be healthy and not lose a step.  

I don't think we've seen the best of Bradford......and I don't think there's ever really been a season where he's had a situation that most QBs would excel in .

I'm not even a supporter, a fan or even a relative.  I thought he had ability when he came to PHI, and while I'm glad the Eagles traded him and got Wentz.....I thought the team, (as constructed before they blew it up...with Murray, Alonso, Maxwell and the original 13th pick they had) was going to be a playoff team.  

 

[flapgreen]

Blah blah blah.  A lot of quarterbacks have bad situations.  Bradford will never be a winner. 

 

[Niles Standish]

How many OC's out there have had teams score 589 and 557 points in a season? That may be more an outgrowth of TB and BB, but there aren't a lot of guys available with those results.

Those are the 2 best offensive seasons in Pats history.  McDaniels deserves some credit for that.  The 3rd and 4th best seasons in Pats history offensively (by PF) came in the 3 year period McDaniels was in Denver/St Louis.  All I'm saying is there is a whole lot of talent there and McDaniels is not the main reason the Pats are successful offensively.

 

[massraider]

The Patriots aren't stupid and realize they most likely would get a third compensatory pick when he leaves. They are not trading him for a pick in the third that moves them up 10-20 spots? over the pick they would get for him anyways when he walks or a fourth. If you want to argue they would take a second rounder fine but a third/fourth is ludicrous.

What is the bare minimum, worst case scenario for what the Pats should accept in trade?

High 2nd?  Low 1st?

 

[wikkidpissah]

What is the bare minimum, worst case scenario for what the Pats should accept in trade?

High 2nd?  Low 1st?

two 2s is the least i'd take

 

[ROCKET]

What is the bare minimum, worst case scenario for what the Pats should accept in trade?

High 2nd?  Low 1st?

This is just my personal opinion of what the minimum should be:  A high second round pick with performance based escalators that could raise the pick to a first rounder AND another pick  ( 3-5 round?) and/or player. I have no idea what the Pats are thinking but I can't envision them accepting a third round pick for a player they used a second round pick on to acquire and from most accounts will recoup them a third comp pick if he hits f.a.

 

[flapgreen]

two 2s is the least i'd take

Then you would be sitting with him next season.  Good thing it's not you. 

 

[flapgreen]

High second is the best they will do,  barring some team pulls a "Minnesota" and gives a first. 

 

[Dedfin]

Rohan Davey all over again.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Rohan Davey all over again.

Been thru all of the BB QB dumps - knew they were all bums. This kid's got a Cousins floor & a Romo ceiling. If he had took the needle for wk 3, he'd be off the market and it would be 50/50 who BB's 2018 starter would be. Aware of how quickly qbs fall off a cliff @ TB12's age when they finally do, nothing less than a mid 1st, low1 & low3 or 2 2s would get him from me. 

 

[Anarchy99]

High second is the best they will do,  barring some team pulls a "Minnesota" and gives a first. 

JG was a second round pick to begin with. So doing very well in limited opportunity, playing behind a HOF QB and a HOF coach for 3 years, on the team with the most wins since he entered the league, with a year left on his contract for peanuts, nets them a pick only a few spots higher than where they drafted him? That makes little to no sense.

 

[flapgreen]

JG was a second round pick to begin with. So doing very well in limited opportunity, playing behind a HOF QB and a HOF coach for 3 years, on the team with the most wins since he entered the league, with a year left on his contract for peanuts, nets them a pick only a few spots higher than where they drafted him? That makes little to no sense.

A high second round pick isn't peanuts.   They brought in a guy to back up Brady and possibly take over for him,  but it looks like Brady will play forever so they don't need him.  Get back what they used to get him and move on.   Who knows.  Maybe someone will pony up a first round pick,  but the Pats will take a second if that's all they can get.  Plenty of second round qb talent coming out this year.  I think they'll only get a second,  at best. 

 

[Anarchy99]

For a single second round pick, NE would just keep him one more year. If Jimmy G leaves as a free agent, they would likely get a 3rd or a 4th round compensatory pick. They are not going to move him just to move him.

 

[Buckna]

What they drafted him at 3 years ago means nothing, that's a sunk cost fallacy. Mallet was a 3rd rounder, they traded him for a 7th because it was all they could get. The only thing that matters is what some team is willing to give them for him now and if that is worth more to the Patriots than having him as a backup for 1 year and waiting an additional year for a possible pick at the end of the 3rd round in 2019 (when Brady might very well be retiring.)

They should jump at 2nd rounder if someone offers it (honestly doubt anyone will), not only would that be at least a round better than what they (may) get, it would be 2 years earlier. With the way Belicheck likes to trade that 2nd rounder might be 3 or 4 different picks by 2019.

 

[Jercules]

What they drafted him at 3 years ago means nothing, that's a sunk cost fallacy. Mallet was a 3rd rounder, they traded him for a 7th because it was all they could get. The only thing that matters is what some team is willing to give them for him now and if that is worth more to the Patriots than having him as a backup for 1 year and waiting an additional year for a possible pick at the end of the 3rd round in 2019 (when Brady might very well be retiring.)

They should jump at 2nd rounder if someone offers it (honestly doubt anyone will), not only would that be at least a round better than what they (may) get, it would be 2 years earlier. With the way Belicheck likes to trade that 2nd rounder might be 3 or 4 different picks by 2019.

The point is he was worth a 2nd rounder when he was drafted, and he's clearly gained value since then.

Everyone wants to point to only six quarters... fine, but that's six quarters more than Goff or Wentz and each of those guys costed an arm and a leg. 

Has Bradford, even once in his career, had a half as impressive as JG's against Miami? Has JG ever looked like crap?

Every "insider account" story on this (where they get anonymous NFL executive opinions--not just yahoo fans like all of us ) says JG goes for a first bare minimum, perhaps even multiple firsts. The only way this doesn't happen is if Belichick decides to keep him (and that has everything to do with how he feels about Brissett, a point that does not get mentioned enough).

 

[flapgreen]

For a single second round pick, NE would just keep him one more year. If Jimmy G leaves as a free agent, they would likely get a 3rd or a 4th round compensatory pick. They are not going to move him just to move him.

Why would they keep him a year to get a 3rd or 4th round pick when they can get a 2 now? That's not moving him to move him. 

 

[flapgreen]

The point is he was worth a 2nd rounder when he was drafted, and he's clearly gained value since then.

Everyone wants to point to only six quarters... fine, but that's six quarters more than Goff or Wentz and each of those guys costed an arm and a leg. 

Has Bradford, even once in his career, had a half as impressive as JG's against Miami? Has JG ever looked like crap?

Every "insider account" story on this (where they get anonymous NFL executive opinions--not just yahoo fans like all of us ) says JG goes for a first bare minimum, perhaps even multiple firsts. The only way this doesn't happen is if Belichick decides to keep him (and that has everything to do with how he feels about Brissett, a point that does not get mentioned enough).

Because he played 2 good games doesn't mean he's more valuable than a 2. You guys keep discounting that he will command big money next year.  That's not insignificant.  For that reason,  I don't even think they can get a 2.  A team will be taking a risk on trading a high pick AND committing a lot of cap space. 

 

[Dedfin]

The point is he was worth a 2nd rounder when he was drafted, and he's clearly gained value since then.

No

 

[Run It Up]

A team will be taking a risk on trading a high pick AND committing a lot of cap space. 

Hes still on his rookie deal? Pretty sure his impact on their cap is less than if they draft literally anyone in the first round.

 

[FUBAR]

Blah blah blah.  A lot of quarterbacks have bad situations.  Bradford will never be a winner. 

3 teams, all of which he didn't succeed.  must be their situations.  Couldn't be that the guy is simply an average to below average starting QB - which puts him among the top 20ish people currently in his profession.  

 

[BigSteelThrill]

For a single second round pick, NE would just keep him one more year. If Jimmy G leaves as a free agent, they would likely get a 3rd or a 4th round compensatory pick. They are not going to move him just to move him.

Only if they dont use utilize free agency themselves.  Or better stated: dont use it as much as they lose in free agency.

 

[Dedfin]

Guys, I have an idea that will make you happy.  What if teams just give a 1st rounder to the Patriots and they get to KEEP GOATrappolo?  Would you like that?