So, what you want is a one sided discussion, without dissent? And, if people dissent, they're obnoxious? Everybody and everything is open to fair criticism. But, when we go fromt he Pats being the example to stop something that everybody does to their SB's,being tainted, that's over the top. When we talk about Belichick moving a reporter and it is made out like he bum rushed him, that's over the top, and the Open your mind. Just because somebody disagrees doesn't make them obnoxious. What I find funny, constantly we Pats fans are called obnoxious because we stand behind our team. How often do you see us posting how obnoxious others are for merely taking the counter position to ours?
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Patriots-my how things have changed since Super Bowl XXXVI (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jurrassic
- Start date
Yeah, I definitely have no problem with that.... you're supposed to celebrate with your teammates... likewise, when the Bears win, I love reveling in it with my dad, who is also a die-hard. But that's different than taunting the other team, which I meant to be more of the point... like do we still need people signatures devoted to how badly they beat the Cowboys, etc...? Leave that to teams struggling for a spot in the pecking order...The only way I can relate as a fan is the Michael Jordan Bulls, who I had the great pleasure of watching... after the first few championships I can't imagine going on the internet and rubbing in a regular season victory over the Trail Blazers, for example. The Bulls were a dynasty, we had bigger fish to fry... we were supposed to win regular season games, when it happened there was no point in berating the other team or gloating to their fans.
I guess that's more what I meant by the Barry Sanders "act like you've been there" analogy...
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Did you not see the end of the Bengals game? With a 27-13 lead, they reeled off a 6 of 7 minute drive, capped off by a touchdown, to seal the game. The Patriots have no problem running the ball. They just choose not to run the ball that much right now. Heck, with the way their passing game is clicking right now, why would they run the ball?
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timschochet
Footballguy
In terms of history:For me, the greatest teams of all time are:
1. 89 San Francisco
2. 92 Dallas
I realize I will get plenty of debate on this (85 Bears? 79 Steelers? 72 Dolphins, etc.) but I think you can basically rule out teams prior to a certain time (lets say 1988 for argument's sake) as simply not having enough size and speed to compete with the more recent players. Furthermore, I figured you could rule out any teams in the late 90's and 21st century because the salary cap rules prevented stockpiling of elite talent. Therefore, I was left almost by default with these two awesome teams, who I still think would be favored to beat any opponent apart from each other.
This year's New England team has managed to stockpile talent in a way that has defeated the salary cap rules better than any team since those rules were put in place. 16-0 I don't really care about for the purposes of this discussion- more importantly, will the Pats totally crush all playoff opponents throughout and including the SB? If they do so, then I would put them in a grouping with the two teams I have mentioned.
Rank Team G Pts/G TotPts Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng 1st 1st% 20+ 40+ FUM 1 Minnesota Vikings 6 19.2 115 180 30.0 982 5.5 163.7 6 73T 46 25.6 7 3 4 2 Pittsburgh Steelers 6 26.7 160 201 33.5 954 4.7 159.0 4 45 50 24.9 11 1 4 3 Jacksonville Jaguars 6 17.8 107 186 31.0 891 4.8 148.5 5 76 46 24.7 6 3 2 4 Oakland Raiders 6 21 126 196 32.7 875 4.5 145.8 5 48 42 21.4 9 1 2 5 Tennessee Titans 6 22 132 221 36.8 864 3.9 144.0 7 42 46 20.8 6 1 5 6 Indianapolis Colts 6 32.2 193 190 31.7 851 4.5 141.8 10 23 60 31.6 3 0 1 7 New England Patriots 7 39.9 279 224 32.0 934 4.2 133.4 5 49 63 28.1 2 1 2 Yeah, because they do only have the #7 rushing offense. I don't know, but I'd venture a guess that if they weren't so good at passing the ball they might run it more? Don't you play to your strengths. Keep in mind this is with their #1 back out for much of the season. Let's be realistid. Is winning by 4 TD's running it up ina professional league? At any level? Running plays against other teams is how you improve. Isn't it ironic that at the same time we have people talking about how good the Pats are not we have others complaining about them running up scores.
They dont' have the internet in Indiana.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I only way I will ever root for this team if they get to the superbowl will be to get JR. Seau his much deserved ring. Then he can finally retire. Other than that, I dont want this team to win a game
Couple of points. To correlate the Jordan Bulls to the pats, they would have had to be roughly two 25-0 teams meeting, because each NBA regular season game is equal to 5 NFL. The regular season in the NFL means more than any other sport. Again though, Pats fans responding to trash talk from other fans about how the Chargers, and then the 'Boys, were going to whup up on them? I mean come on. We're obnoxious for standing behind our team for doing the same thing every other fan does for his? I just think it's hilarious.
As to Barry Sanders. I love Barry. But, in addition to muted celebration there's something else Barry never did, and that's win. Never had to listen to how he wasn't deserving. Never had to hear that though he won the SB, his team really wasn't the best. After 3 in four years, it's all luck, smoke and mirrors. Reality is, that's changes the emotional dynamic.
jurrassic
Footballguy
The purpose of this thread was to point out how the media and fans perception and opinion of the Pats has completely changed since Super Bowl XXXVI. It really is quite astonishing. Nearly everyone I knew routed for the Pats team that defeated the Rams. I understand at the time they were the underdogs but that seems like light years away from today. I truly think alot of that has to do with the way people view Belicheck.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
You're wrong. I don't live in NE and I don't care about the Patriots, but I'm not rooting for the spoiled brat known as Eli Manning. I'm also not sure how I'd feel about TO being there if Dallas makes it, but with Moss on the other side it would be a wash.
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Yeah, I don't mean to suggest that Pats fans shouldn't back their team when people are doubting them or talking trash. That's fine, defend yourself and move on... but there's a difference between defending yourself and gloating. My point was that I'm fine with the Pats fans as long as they recognize that line... and they don't use the "no respect" card as justification for stepping over it, because that's silly.
As per the Barry Sanders argument, I used him as an example because he was famously under-stated, but you can swap his name out for Jerry Rice, Walter Payton... The rest seems inapplicable to me, since Barry Sanders actually had control over the outcome of games... unless your argument is that Barry Sanders was never under any scrutiny or faced any doubters and therefore had no reason to spike the ball/gloat... not sure I see a lot of validity there.
jurrassic
Footballguy
Boston sports fans tend to have a tortured psyche due to the constant heart wrenching loses the Red Sox made them endure for so long. Yes the Celtics were successful but so what. I think they are finally enjoying success and have the "go sing it on the mountain" approach.dornado said:
I think it's got far more to do with their continued success. Jealously is part of human nature. The longer they stay near, or on, top, the more they will be reviled. People search for reasons to hate, but they escape logic. Belichick is the same surly SOB to the media he was in Cleveland, in NY and every stop in between. He hates losing. That's a good trait. Show me an NFL franchise that accepts losing, and I'll show you a losing franchise. Losing should p one O. If it doesn't get out of sports. Heck, last year LT goes off the field crying because Pats are celebrating a victory. And, the Pats are the bad sports? He further went on with the 9 our of 10 quote, and continueal shots at the Pats. But, the Pats are the bad sports. Right.jurrassic said:
twitch
Footballguy
Now, why do you think that was? that everyone was pulling for the Patriots? Did everyone view Martz in the same terrible light that they view Belichick. Or is it possibly as simple as most ordinary fans rooting for the underdog? The Rams had the entire world outside of TN probably rooting for them 2 years earlier, because although they had a great season, they were still the Cinderella underdog. So, with the Rams, it only took 2 years. And no scandals. Just another 14-2 season and a HUGE POINT SPREAD. Sounds very much like basically every single week of NE's world right now. Theyre a 14plus point favorite every single week. Who wants to root for that team??? Most football fans almost feel its their duty to pull against NE right now. Theyre absolutely the Goliath of the NFL right now. And every single other team is David.jurrassic said:
jurrassic
Footballguy
Agreed, but just because you are the goliath does not mean people innately route against you. There are many people who jump on the Yankees bandwagon every year because they are best. Alot of people pulled for Jordan and his Bulls to pile up the Championships. The 49ers were never viewed in the light these Patriots are.
I see Pats fans in here, just as every other teams fans, early in the week gloating. You tak trash leading up to the game, and say I told you so. Other than sigs mocking idiotic statements by LT and such, find me pats fans gloating about games from over 10 days ago. They're not. As for Sanders. He never had the success that invites the criticism the Pats face. The initial poster acknowledges that people loved the Pats first SB win. It was fress and david haw slewn goliath again. But, they wen't deserving. Next year they miss the playoffs, and the 'see I told you so' ers appeared. Then they win two in a row, and then people really needed to find a reason to hate them, and that's when all the criticism's started, during the last two wins. It went away somewhat over the last two years, but this year, the hating is back with a vengeance. Why? Because they're the model franchise. They win. They make hard business decisions, but they keep winning. Everybody hates a winner, except for the winners fans.dornado said:
And thouth there are anti-Pat fans, there are many wanting to see history; be it 19-0, or just a couple of more superbowls. The Yankees have history. That's why their bandwagon gathers so many. Who doesn't love a team that has more major professional championships than any other? But, there are just as many who hate them. Casual fans jump the bandwagon, real fans hate the Yankees. Not just for their success, but how. Their bench could probably win most divisions most years, but there's only room for 9 at a time on the field. INjuries don't effect them.
The Bulls? Many were sick of them after the first 3. But after the Jordan retirement and return? Even still, they had Rodman, who people hated. I'd say it was far from universal rooting for the Bulls. But, I it was clear we were watching the greatest ever in his sport, by a long shot. I didn't root for them, but I took great joy in watching. Much the same way I would like to see LeBron get a couple of rings. But, first and foremost, the Celtics need to get back on track.
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
You're something else. Did you happen to see the "Dallas punches New England in the mouth" thread your buddy BDK started? Of course you saw it, you posted in in. Hell, look at the damn post I just quoted with your trademark, yet unoriginal *. Hypocrite.I almost forgot!monkeysee said:I have never seen anything like it. I am a Cowboys fan and I now hate the Pats more than the Eagles and Skins. That is just wrong.
I too was pulling for the Pats in that Super Bowl vs the Rams. My how times have changed.
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I almost forgot!
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Insoxicated
Switz brings up a good point.. this IS a first for the NFL.
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
Don't kid yourself tim, or anybody else here. The only reason you start or post in Patriots threads is indeed to express dislike or to try to rile up the Pats fans on this board and to start a Pats bashing party. The only reason. At least admit it instead of acting like a little kid getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar. You enjoy being the instigator.timschochet said:
twitch
Footballguy
With all due respect to the Niners, there were other extremely strong teams during the Niners' run. The '85 Bears are still considered by many as the greatest team of all time. The Giants teams of '86 and '90 with LT won rings. Washington won 3 rings during a 10 year span. That's 4 extremely strong teams of the day. The Niners werent alone in their greatness. Today, we basically have the Colts and the Patriots, but the Pats have 3 titles, so they still stand out. But no other team has stepped up and joined these 2 as either having one hugely dominant year, or the same kind of sustained success. But when you combine the Pats recent past with the 3 titles, and the unbelievable year theyre having, it makes for a fairly easy target. And Im not saying everyone roots against them or hates them, but it makes them an easy team to pull against.
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Not to mention his ex doesn't want him in the life of the child. Ther'es always more to the story. For the record, the childs name is John Edward Thomas Moynahan. REad those initials Tom. JET Moynahan.
Very strange situaiton. Date for 3 years, no child. Break up, she's pregnant? right after.
Road Warriors
Footballguy
**Disclosure -- Pats fan from the Plunkett era on **There are two sides to this problem. As soon as a NE post goes up, a certain selection of the MB populace ( call them "Haters" ) can't wait to enter their "cheater", *, bully, score running up, classless, etc garbage. Another selection of MBtimschochet said:
populace ( lets call them "Homers" ) can't wait to jump in and question the intelligence of any who can't see the utter dominance of this team.
I am drawn to these threads, and always have a hope that it could elevate into a reasonable discussion, but that is rarely the case. Its a shame, because this is possibly an alltime great team. They are playing some of the best offensive football I ever recall seeing. And for me, adding to that historic sense, is the fact that this is the team I've followed ( through some REALLY lean times ) and that makes it all the sweeter. I suggest we all sit back and enjoy some great football.
Cunk
Footballguy
Why exactly do Patriot's fans need to recognize that they have become the "Yankees" of the NFL? It's not like someone who is an alcoholic to need to come to grips with their addiction. These are fans who are getting the show of their lives. Seeing a so-far historic team who are performing like a well-oiled machine by unbelievable playmakers. Why does it seem like you want to rain on their parade? So, what good does it do? I actually want an answer. What good would come from any Patriots fan to recognize that they have officially become the Yankees of the NFL besides your enjoyment of the fact that they aren't allowed to fully enjoy what is going on in Foxboro?Post like yours only makes them/me love the Patriots even more because the visual we get is an eight-year-old, kicking up a tantrum, slamming their fists on the ground because he can't have sprinkles on his ice cream like Timmy from across the street does. Enough with it Patriot haters. Could you please just let us enjoy the ride? For the love of all things good, if you start getting all red and puffy in the face about the Patriots just sit on your friggin' hands or something. Go rake the lawn. But just, I beg of you, GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
Yes, but to be fair, in the acting and modeling world, the Moynahan haters probably accuse her of trying to "trap" the golden boy into marrying her. See, it all depends on which lawn you're on.
Road Warriors
Footballguy
D_House said:
Every bit as good a start to the season, although without the eye-popping offensive numbers. They very much deserve the same type of consideration.
parrot
Footballguy
Brady's name is Thomas Edward. Coinkydink?
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Steelers fan here and I will be rooting for the Patriots to lose every week going forward. However, can we please put an end to the Pats hate threads already? You can hate them and still respect what they've done. Go Skins!!!
Bossman
Footballguy
"Come back... I'll bite your ankles off!"I tend to root for the underdog when my team isn't in the game... rooting against the Yankees for instance. Even though the Pats have built a winning team much different than the way the Yankees do, I don't expect alot of Patriot backing.And I'm thinking that a factor as to why the Patriots look so good is that the rest of the league stinks this year. Twice last week vs MIA I see Brady chuck the ball into double coverage in the end zone and both times Randy Moss pulls the ball away for the TD. That was the most pathetic excuse for DB play that I have ever witnesed. If Brady tries that carp against a good defense, those are incomplete pass' if not INT's.
parrot
Footballguy
Not sure what you're getting at here. I'm a Pats fan.
mozzy84
Footballguy
having a bunch of them on your ff teams helps.
switz
Footballguy
Nope, not a first at all. But he's not perfect like everyone makes him out to be. That was the point of citing that. I'm not putting him on the same level as Travis Henry
What I don't get, is why can't a Pats Fan just say - "Yeah, that is pretty classless of him?"
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Insoxicated
1) Who said he was perfect? He's a great QB and a solid teammate. Link to where a pats fan said he was perfect?2) They broke up before she found out she was pregnant3) She is a headcase and doesn't want him him to be overly active in the life of the child4) The kid is undoubtedly getting support checks What do you want him to do.. jump back into a failed relationship "for the sake of the child"? Fight the mother in an ugly custody battle? Please... tell me what a "Classy" guy would do.... The random #### you guys will dig in on is comical
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PatsFanCT
Footballguy
I guess I don't watch the view or Oprah as much as you, so can you fill us in on the story? Did he knock her up and dump her poor ### to the curb forcing her to live on welfare like you want the story to be, or did she maybe get knocked up just to keep him from leaving? Or could it be they amicably broke up but she wanted to have his child anyway? How often does her birth control fail? Do tell oh teacher of the tabloids. And how did he get her to move completely across country like that? Man, maybe he really is a hero.Nope, not a first at all. But he's not perfect like everyone makes him out to be. That was the point of citing that. I'm not putting him on the same level as Travis HenryWhat I don't get, is why can't a Pats Fan just say - "Yeah, that is pretty classless of him?"
twitch
Footballguy
I dont want to overstate the obvious here, but making a remark like this makes but one point. How little class you have. Its as if youre trapped in a football dungeon, and Bill Belichick is the warden.Nope, not a first at all. But he's not perfect like everyone makes him out to be. That was the point of citing that. I'm not putting him on the same level as Travis Henry
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I saw a Cowboys team that was still playing and as a Cowboy fan I'm find with the extra score.
switz
Footballguy
I dont want to overstate the obvious here, but making a remark like this makes but one point. How little class you have. Its as if youre trapped in a football dungeon, and Bill Belichick is the warden.Nope, not a first at all. But he's not perfect like everyone makes him out to be. That was the point of citing that. I'm not putting him on the same level as Travis HenryWhat I don't get, is why can't a Pats Fan just say - "Yeah, that is pretty classless of him?"
Morality doesn't matter in role models anymore?See, you're making my point for me. Out comes the "no respect card". Sanders never had the success that invites the criticism the Pats face? Isn't Barry Sanders considered one of the greatest RBs of all time, if not the best pure runner? Isn't that a lot of success? So when he was criticized for being inconsistent or not scoring enough TDs... or not leading his team to victory... that was nothing? He didn't have motivation to spike a ball after a TD? (BTW, we're killing this analogy)... But the Pats have a few doubters and its enough lack of respect for their fans to trash talk everyone?
Let me find my violin.
twitch
Footballguy
Who are you, man? Jerry Falwell? Pat Robertson? Quit disguising your bogus hate for a football team as some morality crusade.I dont want to overstate the obvious here, but making a remark like this makes but one point. How little class you have. Its as if youre trapped in a football dungeon, and Bill Belichick is the warden.Nope, not a first at all. But he's not perfect like everyone makes him out to be. That was the point of citing that. I'm not putting him on the same level as Travis Henry
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
The morality card and its variants that make their way into the Patriots Love Em or Hate Em Shark Pool Drama is consistent with the moderately conservative / right-wing slant that is the culture here, imo. That's not meant as a knock on anyone, it is simply something I have realized about this environment and has tempered my experience here.Stepping back from this vector of the thread there is a lot more reasoned debate here (believe it or not) than in threads from a week ago, or a month ago. I attribute this to people staking out their ground on the Patriots gig, and then getting tired of haggling. We have our eom, they have their leading edge guys, but most have gotten tired of engaging in the same old hackneyed arguments.Who are you, man? Jerry Falwell? Pat Robertson? Quit disguising your bogus hate for a football team as some morality crusade.I dont want to overstate the obvious here, but making a remark like this makes but one point. How little class you have. Its as if youre trapped in a football dungeon, and Bill Belichick is the warden.Nope, not a first at all. But he's not perfect like everyone makes him out to be. That was the point of citing that. I'm not putting him on the same level as Travis HenryWhat I don't get, is why can't a Pats Fan just say - "Yeah, that is pretty classless of him?"
eom
Footballguy
petty jealousy is just human nature.at least for some kind of people.that's why everybody loves the underdog but hates the dynasty.some people need to scapegoat the pats for their own failings as human beings.
Wait wait wait...now what makes me a hypocrite?I am not taking the time to search through the mess of a thread again. Sorry.You're something else. Did you happen to see the "Dallas punches New England in the mouth" thread your buddy BDK started? Of course you saw it, you posted in in. Hell, look at the damn post I just quoted with your trademark, yet unoriginal *. Hypocrite.I almost forgot!monkeysee said:I have never seen anything like it. I am a Cowboys fan and I now hate the Pats more than the Eagles and Skins. That is just wrong.
I too was pulling for the Pats in that Super Bowl vs the Rams. My how times have changed.
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*
I almost forgot!
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Since when does the * have to be original? When I think of the * I think of Bonds and the Pats. The song Tainted Love also comes to mind for some reason.
Deal with it, G.
*
twitch
Footballguy
It makes me think of how much Dallas sucks. And up until a couple of weeks ago, they actually thought they were somebody. Losing to a bunch of cheaters like that. just a shame. *Wait wait wait...now what makes me a hypocrite?I am not taking the time to search through the mess of a thread again. Sorry.You're something else. Did you happen to see the "Dallas punches New England in the mouth" thread your buddy BDK started? Of course you saw it, you posted in in. Hell, look at the damn post I just quoted with your trademark, yet unoriginal *. Hypocrite.I almost forgot!monkeysee said:
I too was pulling for the Pats in that Super Bowl vs the Rams. My how times have changed.
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*
I almost forgot!
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Since when does the * have to be original? When I think of the * I think of Bonds and the Pats. The song Tainted Love also comes to mind for some reason.
Deal with it, G.
*
oukurt
Footballguy
Dickie Dunn
Footballguy
Long Drives: The Patriots lead the NFL in 10-play drives and five-minute drives (17 each). They’ve scored on all but one. The only other team in their stratosphere, not surprisingly, is the Colts, who are 16-for-16 on such drives.First possession scoring: The Patriots are 7-for-7 with four touchdowns and three field goals. Their 100 percent success rate is far and away tops in the league, with San Diego second at 67 percent and six teams tied for last at zero. The Patriots have led each of their games after one possession, which puts opponents in the immediate position of playing catch-up. And the Pats just pour it on.
It’s also interesting to note that of Brady’s 27 touchdown passes, 16 have come on his first 10 throws, further evidence that the Pats are jumping out early.
That didn’t take long: The Patriots have run exactly one play this season with a lead of seven points or fewer in the fourth quarter - Stallworth’s 69-yard touchdown reception against the Cowboys, at which point it was back to blowout city.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/footbal...ticleid=1040107
eom
Footballguy
I should make this my sig.
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