Patriots stealing signals? (1 Viewer)

[NEUPJ]

ESPN's Mort just reported that this may end up costing the Pats a draft pick as a penalty from the NFL.

 

[Flexmaster]

You should stick to pop warner if you don't know how to disguise your signs, or at the very least, hire someone who knows how. It amazes me that guys can reach this level without being able to do this.

That has absolutely nothing to do with my point. I was pointing out that stealing signals is a serious violation, in response to people that seem to think it can't help the Pats.Disguising signals has nothing to do with what I said.

It's really not.

If you are paying someone outside of your own coaching box and not on the sidelines with the players, or the players themselves - to get an advantage - you might as well be paying the refs.You are trying to do it in a way that cannot be monitored and is outside the processs of the game itself. Not only is it terribly bad cheating, its cheating that you are well aware of and are taking measures from outside to get an advantage anyway.

Its as bad food poising the other teams pregame meal or having someone take a led pipe to someones knee at the supermarket.

Is it as bad as giving all the toilet bowls in the visiting teams locker rooms upper deckers before they arrive? I think Manload could arrange that after breakfast.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You should stick to pop warner if you don't know how to disguise your signs, or at the very least, hire someone who knows how. It amazes me that guys can reach this level without being able to do this.

That has absolutely nothing to do with my point. I was pointing out that stealing signals is a serious violation, in response to people that seem to think it can't help the Pats.Disguising signals has nothing to do with what I said.

It's really not.

If you are paying someone outside of your own coaching box and not on the sidelines with the players, or the players themselves - to get an advantage - you might as well be paying the refs.You are trying to do it in a way that cannot be monitored and is outside the processs of the game itself. Not only is it terribly bad cheating, its cheating that you are well aware of and are taking measures from outside to get an advantage anyway.

Its as bad food poising the other teams pregame meal or having someone take a led pipe to someones knee at the supermarket.

Is it as bad as giving all the bowls in the visiting teams locker rooms upper deckers before they arrive?

Typo? Didnt quite make sense of that. "giving all the bowls upper deckers?" ???

 

[Pittsburgh United]

ESPN's Mort just reported that this may end up costing the Pats a draft pick as a penalty from the NFL.

I'm so sorry to hear this.

 

[NYCGangGreen]

You should stick to pop warner if you don't know how to disguise your signs, or at the very least, hire someone who knows how. It amazes me that guys can reach this level without being able to do this.

That has absolutely nothing to do with my point. I was pointing out that stealing signals is a serious violation, in response to people that seem to think it can't help the Pats.Disguising signals has nothing to do with what I said.

It's really not.

If you are paying someone outside of your own coaching box and not on the sidelines with the players, or the players themselves - to get an advantage - you might as well be paying the refs.You are trying to do it in a way that cannot be monitored and is outside the processs of the game itself. Not only is it terribly bad cheating, its cheating that you are well aware of and are taking measures from outside to get an advantage anyway.

Its as bad food poising the other teams pregame meal or having someone take a led pipe to someones knee at the supermarket.

Is it as bad as giving all the bowls in the visiting teams locker rooms upper deckers before they arrive?

Typo? Didnt quite make sense of that. "giving all the bowls upper deckers?" ???

I take it you have no clue what an upper decker is???Next time, drop a #2 in the toilet tank, then flush.....its terrible

 

[Ghost Rider]

The jets would have lost this game no matter what. The patriots are a tougher, more talented, better coached team. However, if this is true, its still cheating and should be punished (severely, if it is more than a first offense)Nothing wrong at all with stealing signals. Its part of sports on every level. But using videotape is crossing the line IMO. Any intentional signal interference should result in VERY serious consequences IMO. (forfeiture of first rounders, lengthy coach suspensions, etc)

And LOL at any Patriot fans trying to justify this (if it is true).

 

[Sweetness_34]

This is really stupid. Why can't the NFL just give a green helmet to one person on the D and the let D communicate the signal through a radio the way the O does. End of story....one would think a league as rich and popular as the NFL would do anything to avoid controversies that make it's product smaller in front of the public.

 

[jabarony]

The jets would have lost this game no matter what. The patriots are a tougher, more talented, better coached team. However, if this is true, its still cheating and should be punished (severely, if it is more than a first offense)Nothing wrong at all with stealing signals. Its part of sports on every level. But using videotape is crossing the line IMO. Any intentional signal interference should result in VERY serious consequences IMO. (forfeiture of first rounders, lengthy coach suspensions, etc)

And LOL at any Patriot fans trying to justify this (if it is true).

The Pats won't be punished severely at all. Remember the Broncos paying Elway under the table (actually promising him a do-nothing job at a ridiculous salary after retirement)? Heck, that allowed the Broncos to sign who knows how many additional players helping them to 2 SuperBowls! What was the punishment? A 3rd round pick, I think?That was much more of a scumbag move in my opinion. I say the Pats get fined and at Worst a 5th rounder.

 

[Footballhead]

I'm telling you, its stealing signals or deal with the devil they made.

 

[TheLimeChicken]

Not necessarily a huge Pats fan here, but I honestly can't see the big deal.

I am a big Sox fan and spend a bit of time listening to Boston sports radio when I can and this was no surprise the topic of conversation on the waves this afternoon. Steve DeOssie and Fred Smerlas seemed to think that this was an everyday thing that goes on with every club in the league. Whether or not that's true I don't know, but these guys played in the league and seemed to be in the camp of "No big deal, we did it when we played and everyone does it now".

In my view, steal all the signs you want, how exactly is it helping your team? Let's say you even get the signs in the first place, you've got a matter of seconds to interpret them, send them in to your players, make adjustments on the field. There's no way that's enough time to make a difference, let alone alter the plays.

That's assuming you get the signals...Allegedly, you've got one video camera here pointed at one coach. Look at the sidelines, there's not just one coach on the sidelines, anyone who's played football knows that there are several guys on the sidelines going through a series of conflicting signals. Assuming the Patriots even know what the signals mean, how do they know which coach is the "hot" coach for that play? How do they know they're filming the set of signals that's actually being followed on the field?

Doesn't anyone remember the Patriots having a fit about Miami doing the same thing last year? I really think this is a kind of thing that goes on every week...Kind of an unwritten rule that teams look the other way because they know they're doing the exact same thing...Unless they're really looking to bust the opponents for whatever reason.

The radio guys seemed to put this in the same light as type of advanced scouting, in fact that's exactly what they called it. I honestly can't see what benefit it has in an ongoing game.

In the end, to me it's no different than the guy on second base peeking in on the catcher and trying to tip the batter as to what pitch is coming. The kind of "cheating" that goes on every week and teams usually just look the other way on.

 

[nase]

Not necessarily a huge Pats fan here, but I honestly can't see the big deal.

I am a big Sox fan and spend a bit of time listening to Boston sports radio when I can and this was no surprise the topic of conversation on the waves this afternoon. Steve DeOssie and Fred Smerlas seemed to think that this was an everyday thing that goes on with every club in the league. Whether or not that's true I don't know, but these guys played in the league and seemed to be in the camp of "No big deal, we did it when we played and everyone does it now".

In my view, steal all the signs you want, how exactly is it helping your team? Let's say you even get the signs in the first place, you've got a matter of seconds to interpret them, send them in to your players, make adjustments on the field. There's no way that's enough time to make a difference, let alone alter the plays.

That's assuming you get the signals...Allegedly, you've got one video camera here pointed at one coach. Look at the sidelines, there's not just one coach on the sidelines, anyone who's played football knows that there are several guys on the sidelines going through a series of conflicting signals. Assuming the Patriots even know what the signals mean, how do they know which coach is the "hot" coach for that play? How do they know they're filming the set of signals that's actually being followed on the field?

Doesn't anyone remember the Patriots having a fit about Miami doing the same thing last year? I really think this is a kind of thing that goes on every week...Kind of an unwritten rule that teams look the other way because they know they're doing the exact same thing...Unless they're really looking to bust the opponents for whatever reason.

The radio guys seemed to put this in the same light as type of advanced scouting, in fact that's exactly what they called it. I honestly can't see what benefit it has in an ongoing game.

In the end, to me it's no different than the guy on second base peeking in on the catcher and trying to tip the batter as to what pitch is coming. The kind of "cheating" that goes on every week and teams usually just look the other way on.

First off, I'm a Pats fan. As far the guys you are describing as being credible authority here, the station is WEEI which is the biggest sports station in NE. They are going to cater to the Pats fans regardless. They both retired in the early 90s right around the time the helmet technology was first being used. And I doubt that the video cameras back then were advanced enough to do whatever it was the Pats may have done inconspicuously. I seriously think they were just making it up. Considering it's DeOssie and Smerlas, I wouldn't doubt it either.As for the signals not being useful in-game, I imagine that there are ways to do it. It might involve some work done during half time. Not sure how the info would get relayed between the time of the signal and the snap or if it would even be possible for someone in the huddle to make the observation directly. Even if not, for division foes, you play them again anyway and can use them in the future.

 

[Gr00vus]

But, the bulk of the domination came in the second half. The Jets were outscored 24-7 after halftime.

You mean after the Pats had analyzed the Jets' defensive signals on the tape from the first half?

 

[randall146]

As a follow-up to my prior question (why is stealing signals illegal?), why are a few of you saying that videotaping the signals somehow makes it worse? Either you are stealing the signals or you aren't. All videotaping does is record the signals for later, which could be done just as well by writing the signals down or simply having a great memory.

I really don't see what line is crossed by videotaping.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

If it's true, I think Belichick should be executed and his head placed on a pike outside the NFL offices.

 

[Gr00vus]

All videotaping does is record the signals for later, which could be done just as well by writing the signals down or simply having a great memory.

This is funny stuff.

 

[Pat Patriot]

First of all, I have seen nothing credible to say this is true. Who is this mystery cameraman? A Pats official? Says who.

Its a 2nd offense because some yahoo in GB says it is? I'll wait to see the report from the NFL security department.

I agree that the main use would be for a later game. They play the Jets twice but what would be their motivation to tape the GB signals? They think they were going to meet GB in the Super Bowl.

Right now, this is just an accusation/rumor. If proven true it is a cheap move and the Pats will take their punishment and give up the 5th round pick. at those saying the Pats should get fined a 1st round pick.

 

[crnerblitz]

First of all, I have seen nothing credible to say this is true. Who is this mystery cameraman? A Pats official? Says who.

Its a 2nd offense because some yahoo in GB says it is? I'll wait to see the report from the NFL security department.

I agree that the main use would be for a later game. They play the Jets twice but what would be their motivation to tape the GB signals? They think they were going to meet GB in the Super Bowl.

Right now, this is just an accusation/rumor. If proven true it is a cheap move and the Pats will take their punishment and give up the 5th round pick. at those saying the Pats should get fined a 1st round pick.

Yeah, cause thats what that ole softy Sheriff Goodell is known for. If its proven good luck with that.

 

[Truman]

So teams have 40 seconds between plays - from what I can see;* People rise up from the scrum, takes about - what - 10 seconds to return to the huddle?* The QB is telling the team the play with about 20-25 seconds left on the 40 second clock.This means that the booth would have to steal the play/sign and get it to the QB within about a 10 second window? Am I oversimplifying? If this is physically possible, that's pretty amazing.

Not if the cameraman has a direct line to the QBs earpiece.

 

[Pat Patriot]

First of all, I have seen nothing credible to say this is true. Who is this mystery cameraman? A Pats official? Says who.

Its a 2nd offense because some yahoo in GB says it is? I'll wait to see the report from the NFL security department.

I agree that the main use would be for a later game. They play the Jets twice but what would be their motivation to tape the GB signals? They think they were going to meet GB in the Super Bowl.

Right now, this is just an accusation/rumor. If proven true it is a cheap move and the Pats will take their punishment and give up the 5th round pick. at those saying the Pats should get fined a 1st round pick.

Yeah, cause thats what that ole softy Sheriff Goodell is known for. If its proven good luck with that.

I'll bet you $50, no matter the outcome, the Pats would not lose a draft pick above a 3rd rounder.

 

[AB in DC]

Also, Brady HAS TO BE in on it. The Pats wouldn't go through the trouble of cheating just so he can change the perfect play they called at the line. That would defeat the purpose. Brady must be a cheater also. He is checking in and out of things

There is absolutely no way to get that kind of information to Brady while he's at the line. The radio is turned off as soon as they break the huddle.But feel free to continue with your

Oh I see. So there is no way Brady can look to the sideline to a specific coach while at the line of scrimmage who gives him a specific hand signal to alert him whether or not their is a blitz coming?

Oh please, enlighten me. Tell me exactly when Brady took time at the line of scrimmage to turn toward the sideline to receive a message from the coaching staff yesterday?Here's a clue: IT NEVER HAPPENS.

 

[Pat Patriot]

So teams have 40 seconds between plays - from what I can see;* People rise up from the scrum, takes about - what - 10 seconds to return to the huddle?* The QB is telling the team the play with about 20-25 seconds left on the 40 second clock.This means that the booth would have to steal the play/sign and get it to the QB within about a 10 second window? Am I oversimplifying? If this is physically possible, that's pretty amazing.

Not if the cameraman has a direct line to the QBs earpiece.

Yes, the Patriots are going to let some nerd from the Audio Visual department call signals in to Brady. Where do you people come from?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

So teams have 40 seconds between plays - from what I can see;* People rise up from the scrum, takes about - what - 10 seconds to return to the huddle?* The QB is telling the team the play with about 20-25 seconds left on the 40 second clock.This means that the booth would have to steal the play/sign and get it to the QB within about a 10 second window? Am I oversimplifying? If this is physically possible, that's pretty amazing.

Not if the cameraman has a direct line to the QBs earpiece.

Not if someone on the sidelines can simply give hand signals to the QB anytime he can still call a audible. Same for the defensive side of the ball.

 

[AB in DC]

If you are paying someone outside of your own coaching box and not on the sidelines with the players, or the players themselves - to get an advantage - you might as well be paying the refs.

This makes absolutely no sense.

You are trying to do it in a way that cannot be monitored and is outside the processs of the game itself. Not only is it terribly bad cheating, its cheating that you are well aware of and are taking measures from outside to get an advantage anyway.

Umm, hello, the whole story broke because, according to the article, it was monitored.

Its as bad food poising the other teams pregame meal or having someone take a led pipe to someones knee at the supermarket.

I'm with 1huskerfan here. This is at its worst.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Jeff Fisher was asked a week or so ago about the green stickers on the QB helmets on his radio show. He explained that it was to identify the helmets with radios in them so that a team couldn't have more than one of the field at one time. I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said "That happened with a team we played last year. I don't think I have to tell you who it was."

Yes, the Titans played NE in the last game last year.

 

[Truman]

So teams have 40 seconds between plays - from what I can see;* People rise up from the scrum, takes about - what - 10 seconds to return to the huddle?* The QB is telling the team the play with about 20-25 seconds left on the 40 second clock.This means that the booth would have to steal the play/sign and get it to the QB within about a 10 second window? Am I oversimplifying? If this is physically possible, that's pretty amazing.

Not if the cameraman has a direct line to the QBs earpiece.

Yes, the Patriots are going to let some nerd from the Audio Visual department call signals in to Brady. Where do you people come from?

Right, because all the Patriots coaches are probably too stupid to work a video camera.

 

[Bill]

Jeff Fisher was asked a week or so ago about the green stickers on the QB helmets on his radio show. He explained that it was to identify the helmets with radios in them so that a team couldn't have more than one of the field at one time. I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said "That happened with a team we played last year. I don't think I have to tell you who it was."Yes, the Titans played NE in the last game last year.

i can't remember who it was that had two radio helmets on the field at the same time last year BUT it wasn't the pats. it was a team that occasionally used their backup QB as a WR. and an official noticed that when they were both on the field at the same time they both obviously had a radio helmet.

 

[AB in DC]

Right, because all the Patriots coaches are probably too stupid to work a video camera.

Umm, did you even read the article? The guy who was accused of recording the Jets' sideline isn't a coach. Just some random member of the staff.This is getting ridiculous. I'm not going to defend cheating (IF that's what happened), but this thread has some of the craziest, dumbest comments I've ever seen on FBG.

 

[code]

Jeff Fisher was asked a week or so ago about the green stickers on the QB helmets on his radio show. He explained that it was to identify the helmets with radios in them so that a team couldn't have more than one of the field at one time. I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said "That happened with a team we played last year. I don't think I have to tell you who it was."Yes, the Titans played NE in the last game last year.

i can't remember who it was that had two radio helmets on the field at the same time last year BUT it wasn't the pats. it was a team that occasionally used their backup QB as a WR. and an official noticed that when they were both on the field at the same time they both obviously had a radio helmet.

Seneca Wallace was specifically mentioned with regard to the green dot rule...but I don't think the Titans played Seattle last year...

 

[Truman]

Right, because all the Patriots coaches are probably too stupid to work a video camera.

Umm, did you even read the article? The guy who was accused of recording the Jets' sideline isn't a coach. Just some random member of the staff.

Who is he? What's his role on the team? What's his background?Seems a little early to be ruling out the possibility. Given they've been warned in the past, why would they even take the risk of punishment if it's not going to help them on the field?

 

[AB in DC]

So basically, everyone on this thread has already decided that the Pats are guilty without seeing a single shred of evidence? Nice.

 

[Truman]

The fact that they had a camera on the sidelines means they were breaking the rules. Whether or not they were stealing signals and what they were doing with that info is another matter.

They knew it was illegal, so unless it gave them an advantage, why would they take the risk?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Is this illegal? Why? I think it should be acceptable. If your signals get stolen, then make up a better signalling process. Can someone explain to me why this is so bad?

 

[Truman]

The league is trying to stop technology encroaching further into the game. They draw the line at using video cameras on the sidelines for any purpose.

 

[nerangers]

If the allegations end up being true, then as a Patriots fan, I am ashamed of their actions.

- Let's see what the NFL comes up with.

 

[gianmarco]

This gives me a great idea. I'm gonna get a nice camera myself and start taping the Saints coaching staff. When I get caught, I'm gonna say that I'm with the opposing team and they paid me to do it. Yeah, they'll deny, but I'll just keep saying it until I cost them a draft pick.

The best will be if Eric Mangini put this guy up to it and to say he's with the Pats to cost them a draft pick. If that's the case and it comes out that Mangini DID do this, I wonder what kind of punishment that would be. Is it illegal to even do that?

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I'm not going to defend cheating (IF that's what happened), but this thread has some of the craziest, dumbest comments I've ever seen on FBG.

Well said.

Now the only thing to do is sit back and wait for all the New England apologists to come in and call it sour grapes.

I'm not going to call it anything Mr. Jets Fan, I'm going to let the thread speak for itself....

All their SB wins should have an * by them now.

I cant believe this!! Why would they all of a sudden get punished now, when it was swept under the rug the 1st time? I think that NE will get away with this one too.

This cheating I have much less a problem with than the cheating they do on the field.PS - bitter Rams fan

BB hates the possibility of losing to the JETS, but this is going way too far. So he is pissed at Mangini for leaving and using tactics that BB himself does, (ie: Reche Caldwell being brought in), but this is just disgusting. As if I didnt hate BB enough before these accusations, this just makes me sick to my stomach and I hope that if these allegations are proven true, I hope Goodell comes down with the same authority he does to the players.

A-ha! So this explains those AFC Championship game wins over the Steelers!!!

Also, Brady HAS TO BE in on it. The Pats wouldn't go through the trouble of cheating just so he can change the perfect play they called at the line. That would defeat the purpose. Brady must be a cheater also. He is checking in and out of things based on knowing what is coming.He cheated on his ex-girlfriend .....

No class. None.No honor. None.

Its as bad food poising the other teams pregame meal or having someone take a led pipe to someones knee at the supermarket.

Of these "jewels", I think my favorite is a Steelers fan passing judgement on the presence or absence of attributes like class and honor as ascribed to a professional football team. Priceless.I support the levying of penalties by the Commissioners Office in the event that there is any substantive truth associated with the allegations. Pity the same penalties won't be assessed against the Dolphins for buying a tape of the Patriots playcalling last year. From the sound of it, it would appear that there are 32 teams that have some familarity with the nuances of stealing signals.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The best will be if Eric Mangini put this guy up to it and to say he's with the Pats to cost them a draft pick. If that's the case and it comes out that Mangini DID do this, I wonder what kind of punishment that would be. Is it illegal to even do that?

I had said the same thing to a friend, that since its coming from a BB disciple it would not surprise me if he was trying to do something like this.

 

[gianmarco]

In fact, think of it. If you were being paid by the Pats to do this, would you give up the info right away that you were with the Pats? Do you realize how much money you could get from them to keep you quiet? Your paycheck would skyrocket if you got caught. No way someone rolls over that fast. At the very least you'd get an attorney before you said a word.

 

[Truman]

He had a team credential from the Patriots genius.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Of these "jewels", I think my favorite is a Steelers fan passing judgement on the presence or absence of attributes like class and honor as ascribed to a professional football team. Priceless.

I know you want the story here to be about those discussing the topic and not the topic itself. I wonder what a trip around other NFL teams message boards would show us?

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210570

http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29049

http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=146519

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=212578

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=483629

It appears on one extreme side you have Patriots fans... on the other side you have damn near almost everyone else, who routinely in those threads talk about the lack of class and honor demonstrated by the Patriots oginization. Its not just one poster or two. Its not just here at FBGs. It is, what it is. And your deflectionary attempts dont change a damn thing.

But here is the catch... you already know all this. In your heart of hearts you already understand the absence of attributes that has been shown by the Patriots and I am willing to bet that Patriot fans start acting like they want to embrace it, despite their true feeling towards this kind of behavior. Which would be dishonest.

 

[GregR_2]

Is this illegal? Why? I think it should be acceptable. If your signals get stolen, then make up a better signalling process. Can someone explain to me why this is so bad?

Because fans want to see a game played on the field, and not dependent on who has the best zooming video camera, parabolic mikes or other listening devices, or any other piece of electronics that is more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team.I've got no problem if a coach watches the other team signaling in plays and tries to deduce what their signs are. When teams start hiring lip readers (as has been done in the past), or bringing electronics into it to spy on other teams, what in the hell does that have to do with football? At some point the league has to say enough is enough, and I think they picked a pretty obvious place to put the line. Don't you?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Is this illegal? Why? I think it should be acceptable. If your signals get stolen, then make up a better signalling process. Can someone explain to me why this is so bad?

Because fans want to see a game played on the field, and not dependent on who has the best zooming video camera, parabolic mikes or other listening devices, or any other piece of electronics that is more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team.I've got no problem if a coach watches the other team signaling in plays and tries to deduce what their signs are. When teams start hiring lip readers (as has been done in the past), or bringing electronics into it to spy on other teams, what in the hell does that have to do with football? At some point the league has to say enough is enough, and I think they picked a pretty obvious place to put the line. Don't you?

No. If they both have access to the technology, it should even out. Shouldn't it? I'm sure I'm just being obtuse here, but it's not intentional.

 

[bostonfred]

If it's true, it's embarrassing, and I don't want my favorite team to be the one doing it. But I don't know if it's true, I don't know if the Patriots are the only ones doing it, and I don't know what the penalty should be even if they are. Realistically, it seems like there should be a fairly substantial cost, and it makes sense that it would be a draft pick. The ideas in this thread so far are ridiculous, but let's assume for a second that they weren't. You can't suspend the head coach without having evidence that he was involved, so that's out. They certainly can't be forced to forfeit a game, which aside from everything else wrong with the idea would be unfair to the rest of the division. They can't take the two firsts, since the next team to get caught doing this won't be able to be forced to take on the same penalty. They could be asked to give up a first, but that's an unprecedented penalty. Then again, if you asked Belichick which he'd rather have, perfect information about his opponents' play calls for several weeks, or a first round pick, he might choose the information. So maybe it's a more realistic punishment than I'd thought at first blush. But I can't picture this being a bigger penalty than what the Broncos received for the Elway salary cap fiasco, which was at least as deliberate an assault on league rules.

 

[Truman]

Roger Goodell has shown that he cares very little about precedent and fairness. I wouldn't be surprised by any penalty he imposes.

 

[jonessed]

After all the #####ing and moaning the Pats fans did about Merriman their organization gets caught cheating.

Loving the excuses so far. Keep 'em coming

 

[massraider]

If the allegations end up being true, then as a Patriots fan, I am ashamed of their actions.

- Let's see what the NFL comes up with.

Really, the only correct answer.The excuse-makers really sound silly to me.

"Everyone is doing it"--One would think someone else may have been caught before now, wouldn't one?

"It's no big deal"--Apparently it is. The NFL has decided this is a big deal, Joe Fan's opinion really ain't worth much on this one. It is against the rules. It is cheating.

And this isn't some coach that noticed a certain sign meant blitz. This was a random staff member. Like that makes it better?

Here's a question: How about hidden mics in the locker room? Is that OK?

 

[1huskerfan]

So teams have 40 seconds between plays - from what I can see;* People rise up from the scrum, takes about - what - 10 seconds to return to the huddle?* The QB is telling the team the play with about 20-25 seconds left on the 40 second clock.This means that the booth would have to steal the play/sign and get it to the QB within about a 10 second window? Am I oversimplifying? If this is physically possible, that's pretty amazing.

Not if the cameraman has a direct line to the QBs earpiece.

Yes, the Patriots are going to let some nerd from the Audio Visual department call signals in to Brady. Where do you people come from?

Right, because all the Patriots coaches are probably too stupid to work a video camera.

You guys are really reaching here.If the camera man was relaying the call to Brady, why would he need a camera? Wouldn't binoculars work just as well?If Brady was indeed getting signals from the sideline we would have seen it by now. It would be blatantly obvious for a QB to staring at the sidelines while approaching the LOS or under center and you would be seeing this on ESPN 24/7. Stealing signs is a very time sensitive operation. Using a camera to accomplish this just doesn't make it feasible. Too many links in the chain in too little time to do it effectively.The only possible purpose the camera could serve is to record the signs for later analysis and future use.

 

[jonessed]

So teams have 40 seconds between plays - from what I can see;* People rise up from the scrum, takes about - what - 10 seconds to return to the huddle?* The QB is telling the team the play with about 20-25 seconds left on the 40 second clock.This means that the booth would have to steal the play/sign and get it to the QB within about a 10 second window? Am I oversimplifying? If this is physically possible, that's pretty amazing.

Not if the cameraman has a direct line to the QBs earpiece.

Yes, the Patriots are going to let some nerd from the Audio Visual department call signals in to Brady. Where do you people come from?

Right, because all the Patriots coaches are probably too stupid to work a video camera.

You guys are really reaching here.If the camera man was relaying the call to Brady, why would he need a camera? Wouldn't binoculars work just as well?If Brady was indeed getting signals from the sideline we would have seen it by now. It would be blatantly obvious for a QB to staring at the sidelines while approaching the LOS or under center and you would be seeing this on ESPN 24/7. Stealing signs is a very time sensitive operation. Using a camera to accomplish this just doesn't make it feasible. Too many links in the chain in too little time to do it effectively.The only possible purpose the camera could serve is to record the signs for later analysis and future use.

They wouldn't need signals. They could just tell him. Just have the camera feed go to the booth and they can relay it in real-time.

 

[Billy1x]

Roger Goodell has shown that he cares very little about precedent and fairness. I wouldn't be surprised by any penalty he imposes.

He needs to send a very very very strong message. Patriots banned from the playoffs this year. Thats the only way to send a message to BB and I believe its very fair.Another option would be to open all Patriot practices and team meetings to reporters throughout the playoffs.

 

[Bri]

It's well known that baseball teams steal signals all the time. Hoops teams often have play calls with the point guard holding up one of his fingers. Every NFL team runs when the D knows they're going to run. Stealing plays and signals and all has been done since Landry had a whole big ordeal about watching the Giants thru binoculars in his hotel decades ago.

BTW One important, IMO, thing that people don't seem to appreciate nowadays is when the other teams know what you're going to do and you do it anyway, successfully. That's a measure of a clearly superior football team. Redskins won a Superbowl calling the same play at least 30 times to Timmy Smith. I think some need to understand that. Just because you know the RB is running off the left guard does not mean you will shed the blockers and stop him. How the D was set may have been an advantage but it sure wasn't anything significant like the Jets inability to cover Randy Moss. It's hardly Brady or Moss' best work to have such a great game when the DBs were just plain awful.

Back on topic, if you haven't watched NFL Network or HBO's Chiefs special and haven't seen the advanced scouting stuff they have with videos on computers- zooming in zooming out, changing camera angles etc- with every game played in the last few years....I understand some of those that seem to be "too upset" then. However, any NFL team can zoom in on any player and read signals AFTER a game with this video machine.

During the game, it might be useful no doubt and there's some underhandedness to it but this is not new. Maybe the video part is but all in all, stealing signals in some fashion every team does. Every single DL looks for some indication of what the snap count is so he can jump on time which usually is a huge leverage advantage for the OL, every single one. That cheating? Maybe it is but some rrrrrrrrreally gotta think about sports before they act all shocked by this news.

One thing I find fascinating has been Mangini's smarts with his plays and adjustments and everything. Who was not impressed last year? If teams knew the Pats were stealing plays, why couldn't this smart coach trick em'? Change up the signals and have them all confused. If it truly is nothing new then he knew the Pats would do this as he's not that far removed from their franchise.