This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Branch was drafted to be a starter. Again trying to act like NE WRs are scrubs to make Brady look better.Just a couple FYI's:
If the Pats had guys that were "arguably better" than Moss, then we're going to have to revisit your opinion of Brady's 2007 season, or at least get you to name some names.
Thank you for setting a standard. So 2585 of Manning's yards this year went to Colts starters:Reggie Wayne - 907
Fred and switz pretty much cancel each other out in these arguments.
Garcon and Collie were drafted as backups, Tamme was drafted as a backup, White is a walk on FA, Brown (despite being a first rounder) was drafted as insurance for Addai and (to use your Welker argument) is returning from multiple injuries. Mike Hart was drafted as a backup.Comparing any of these to Branch, a second round pick who started 7 games as a rookie, is just silly.
So according to you, the Patriots are using second round picks on starters that are expected to be ready year one, and the Colts are using first rounders on guys who are drafted to be backups in year two. And if the Patriots trade Moss away, it's not a downgrade because they thought the other guys on the team were better, but if the Colts go into this year expecting Garcon and Collie to be starters at WR, it's unfair to poor Manning, because they were drafted as backups. It makes a ton of sense.switz said:
switz said:
Garcon = 6th round pickTamme & Collie = 4th round picksWhere did I say a first round WR was drafted as a backup? If you're referring to Brown, I didn't say he was a backup, but rather that he was recovering from multiple injuries. He's also not a WR in case you didn't notice.The Pats traded away Moss because they felt they didn't need him, arguing otherwise is just silly. Moss the went to Min, who waived him, then Ten where he's done nothing. Moss of '10 is not Moss of '07. The Colts were hoping Gonzales would be back this year, and that Garcon or Collue would be the #3 WR, not starters. That Garcon and Collie have started, heck that Blair White is playing, was not at all in the Colts plans.No one said it was "unfair" to Manning, rather it explains some of the difficulties he's had the last couple games. Not one Colt WR has played the entire season. Period.
I don't think you understand whatswitz said:
means.No one here is trying to put down Mannings WRs to make Manning look good. Rather, we are saying much of Manning's struggles (hence not looking good) are due to having most of his WRs out with injuries for stretches.You're the one trying to say Branch is a bad WR, and Troy Brown (a Pro Bowler) was garbage.
Suggesting that Mannings skills may have declined a bit; or believing that the talented players and system around him have contributed greatly (more that u will ever admit) to Mannings statistical success is not necesarily dissing him and it is not just SD & NE fans who see some slippage.Since you missed the earlier reply:
Except Wayne, whose numbers are on pace for a fifth consecutive Pro Bowl. Poor Manning. And the fact that Garcon played both of those last couple games. And the fact that Collie played in the Patriots game. But aside from throwing to a four time pro bowler, his other starting wideout, and his starting slot receiver for one of the games, the total dearth of receivers that Manning's throwing to totally explain the seven interceptions Manning's thrown the last two games. Because it's never Manning's fault when he has a bad game. The difficulties are explained by the WRs.
I'm not saying Branch and Brown are "garbage". Branch was a second year receiver who had only started his rookie season due to injuries to the Pats starting WRs and was an unknown quantity, just like Tamme this year and Garcon/Collie last year. Branch has put up his best seasons with Brady. Since we're comparing Manning's 2010 to Brady's 2003.Troy Brown was a one time pro bowler who got in as an alternate the year Tom Brady took over and helped him to his best season ever in receptions, yards AND touchdowns in 2001. He's a talented player, but he missed four games in 2003. Since we're comparing Manning 2010 to Brady 2003, 12 games of Troy Brown is not the same as a full season of Reggie Wayne. You made the claim that Brady has never dealt with the injuries that Manning has. I pointed out multiple years when Brady has dealt with similar issues. You're not doing a very good job of backing up your claim, so you changed the argument to something you think you can support. If you were actually right, you would probably be able to do better than this. Maybe you should let this one go.I don't think you understand whatswitz said:
Branch put up his best season (singular) with Brady. His four years in Seattle look just like three of his four years in New England; only 2005 is an outlier.
And I pointed out that as much as you want to say Brady's situation was similar in those years, it wasn't. I didn't change the argument, I rebuffed yours with some facts.
Apparently you missed the thread bemoaning how badly Wayne is playing this year, or the fact Wayne has missed time in games, and is playing through injuries. Apparently injuries are an excuse for Welker, but not Wayne.
This year appears to be an outlier as well. 7 games, 33 catches, 433 yards, 3 TDs. That's a 16 game pace of 76 catches, 980 yards, 7 TDs - which is eerily similar to his "outlier" 2005 season with Brady, when he had 78 catches, 998 yards and 5 TDs. And that's against a schedule of Baltimore, San Diego, Minnesota, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Indy and Detroit. Not exactly the softest schedule for him to put up a career high pace. Brady clearly makes Branch better.
You're not doing a very good job distinguishing Brady's 2010 season from Manning's 2010 season.
Oh, we're going to do the 16-game pace thing, eh? Well, how about 2008 in Seattle, where he had 8 games, some partial, with 30 catches, 412 yards, 4 TDs, which is a 16-game pace of 60 catches, 824 yards, 8 TDs, not counting the fact that in reality he played less than 8 games. Pretty much the same numbers.
76 catches, 980 yards, 7 TDs 78 catches, 998 yards and 5 TDs60 catches, 824 yards, 8 TDsWhich two of these are pretty much the same?
Depends what you use in the numerator. If you say that Branch actually played the equivalent of 7 games in Seattle, his full-year numbers come out to 69 catches, 942 yards and 9 TDs. That's why you can't play the 16-game-pace game with a guy who has had significant injuries throughout his career, and a very spotty record in general. Before this week, Branch had played 6 games in New England and had 30 catches for 320 yards and 1 TD, which is a 16-game "pace" of 80/853/2.7. If he goes two weeks with a total of 3 receptions for 42 yards again he'll be on a completely different pace.
I'm sorry he doesn't have the Patriot's offensive line. Did you watch the Colts Chargers game? Peyton Manning constantly had 1-1.5 seconds to get rid of the ball. We can't all regularly have 5-6 seconds to throw the ball (which is usually a slant or screen for hairplugs mcgee).Also, Peyton Manning has never had a receiver as talented as Randy Moss... He's going to send Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne to the HoF. Good players but nothing amazing about them, Harrison was small and a softy and Wayne is really good but not great. Give Manning another 5-6 seasons and maybe he'll send Collie or Garcon there.
When you find yourself saying things like this, it's time to quit arguing.
Wow.Manning lovers grasping at imaginary straws with this one.KY
Alot of this is either disengeniuos or simply not true. First off, Tamme is not a rookie - he's a 3rd year player. Secondly Gronk and Hernandez have benn playing since week 1 - that was part of the plan and part of why they were drafted so highly. A 3rd year player who is playing only due to injury is hardly a fair comparison to two highly touted (and highly drafted) rookies who were part of the offensive plan since day 1.
Isn't it a positive that Tamme is a third-year player and had more time to learn the system?
Another ridiculous comment.You're telling me that two rookies have a better chance of success than a guy who has been in the system for three years?Pathetic.Let's go dig up some good stats on the impact rookie WRs and TEs make in the NFL. Keep coming up with these goodies.KY
Not really.Manning lovers throwing slaps.Brady lovers throwing haymakers.KY
Harrison is a no doubt, 1st ballot HOF player. Different skill set than Moss, but a great WR in his own right. And Manning had him for 10 years, as opposed to Brady having Moss for 2+ Manning is an all-time great QB. But to argue that the skill players he's had over his career aren't significantly better than the skill players Brady has had is an enormous reach.
&urpointiz?Just like Big Ben's off-season antics.
Seems as though your sole purpose on this board is to bash Manning. Do you have other tricks?
No.KY
Kinda sad bro , move on with your life
I'm sorry... you were making a case for Manning not throwing the pick-6... please continue.Just like Big Ben's off-season antics.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
