Phenoms going under (4 Viewers)

[cstu]

What is being lost in all of this is the fact that there is still up to 40% being paid out. Read the email for gods sake!!!!

who in their right mind is not setting their lineups??? just a dum move not to.

I have some bridges in New York for sale...

HUH???? I hope that was derrogitory. better not have been.

He means that anyone who believes Mike's story is naive.

 

[Dizzy]

If the court revives claims for payouts, and one owner's team was 1-10 and didn't make the playoffs, and the other team 10-1 and wins the league and Mike owes them $3000, do you REALLY think they would see both claims as equal?

The bottom line is if the court has an objective way to pay back the unsecured creditors they will use it… And considering according to Mike's bylaws he agreed to pay the PRIZE WINNERS, not everyone… so if the courts have a record of WHO the prize winners are, they will pay them out first, and whatever money is leftover will be paid to the rest of the league members who did not win a prize.

I know that is not what you want to hear dizzy, but objectively speaking the courts will use all available information to determine who will be paid

What court? What claims? Who is filing? What are the charges? When is all of this happening?

This isn't the OJ trial. In the grand scheme of things this isn't even a lot of money.

 

[BassNBrew]

And for the record I think EVERYONE should be working with their CC and bank to reverse the charges..

My point was simply, the bankruptcy court will look at the owners who are owed money to distribute the assets ..

There won't be any assets if everyone reverses the charge.

Don't you have your own special thread designed not to ruin threads like this? There's a lot emotional scars being healed here. Let's just let it run its course.

1. I'm not a lawguy.

2. Just pointing out the contradiction in his statement.

3. Who peed on your cheerios today?

 

[Hooper31]

3. Who peed on your cheerios today?

LINK

 

[cstu]

Mike is reading this thread and must be amused that his "divide and conquer plan" is working so splendidly. 25 percent of the "winners" from all the prize suckers who paid in are uniting against the 75 percent of "losers" who rightfully lost because they didn't qualify for the postseason. Virtual winnings creating an odd dichotomy within the ranks of former Phenoms owners. The "haves" and "havenots". Reminds me of the lifeboat scene in "Titanic", when twelve dignified passengers wouldn't scoot their butts over on a boat that could handle 30, or 50 even.

All of us should be doing CC chargebacks. All of us, even the losers were defrauded. We have strength in numbers. What do you care about more? Putting Mike in jail or getting all your money back. Getting civil or tort damages is a real possible remedy. Getting your money back, all of it I mean, is a pipe dream. Let it go. Be content if you can get just your entry fees and deposits back. If every former Phenoms owner joins in this, the number of complaints will be staggering, too many for the authorities to ignore. It's the only way to keep the pressure firmly ratcheted on Mike. Speaking for myself, I will gladly disperse my winnings with my league mates if it leads to justice for what Mike did. We speak with the loudest voice when we speak as one.

Great

 

[BassNBrew]

The thief err I mean poor business man with the best of intentions had time after feverishly trying to sell the company to set his lineup this week.

http://www8.myfantasyleague.com/2014/live_scoring?L=33199&W=16&FRANCHISES=0012_0015

 

[robcards]

What is being lost in all of this is the fact that there is still up to 40% being paid out. Read the email for gods sake!!!!

who in their right mind is not setting their lineups??? just a dum move not to.

I have some bridges in New York for sale...

HUH???? I hope that was derrogitory. better not have been.

It's an old expression. I was implying that you are gullible for believing his email that he would pay 40% of the prizes.

 

[TheWalk84]

If the court revives claims for payouts, and one owner's team was 1-10 and didn't make the playoffs, and the other team 10-1 and wins the league and Mike owes them $3000, do you REALLY think they would see both claims as equal?

The bottom line is if the court has an objective way to pay back the unsecured creditors they will use it… And considering according to Mike's bylaws he agreed to pay the PRIZE WINNERS, not everyone… so if the courts have a record of WHO the prize winners are, they will pay them out first, and whatever money is leftover will be paid to the rest of the league members who did not win a prize.

I know that is not what you want to hear dizzy, but objectively speaking the courts will use all available information to determine who will be paid

What court? What claims? Who is filing? What are the charges? When is all of this happening?

This isn't the OJ trial. In the grand scheme of things this isn't even a lot of money.

Either you have not read this thread or you are purposefully trying to be naive...

We are talking about between 1.2-1.6 million dollars in cash and assets...

The court? Is the bankruptcy court he will be filling...

Who is filling the claims? Anyone who feels entitled to money

There are no charges, there are simply an entrustee who manages the money and decides who to pay, though I am pretty sure embezzlement charges will follow at some point

This should happened relatively quickly considering Mike was a one man show so there are no retirement accounts, processing admin fees, or other things that usually slow these proceedings down

I hope I have answered your questions, next time please read and be informed if you are going to try to give your uneducated opinions..

 

[TheWalk84]

And for the record I think EVERYONE should be working with their CC and bank to reverse the charges..

My point was simply, the bankruptcy court will look at the owners who are owed money to distribute the assets ..

There won't be any assets if everyone reverses the charge.

Don't you have your own special thread designed not to ruin threads like this? There's a lot emotional scars being healed here. Let's just let it run its course.

1. I'm not a lawguy.

2. Just pointing out the contradiction in his statement.

3. Who peed on your cheerios today?

Just to be crystal clear, anyone who wins their case with CC companies..

THE MONEY WILL NOT COME FROM MIKE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE

It has NO RELEVANCE on the bankruptcy proceedings, on any level.. Those who win their case with the CC, the money will be footed by either Paypal or the CC company, they will have to figure it out between themselves.

 

[TheWalk84]

And also for those of you wondering if someone could theoretically double dip and get their charges reversed while also getting a settlement, the answer is no.

Those who got their charges reversed, will not be eligible to be put in a claim, and if they do, the entrustee will simply dismiss anyone who has had their charges reversed..

Just for clarification

 

[Dapitbull]

Everyone should do a chargeback. The claim for money then falls to the cc company and/bank. Much better to let chase / visa etc go after mike. They have deep pockets and have lawyers that can be very persuasive.

What if you paid using a paypal balance? Can you still file for a chargeback somewhere?

 

[BassNBrew]

And for the record I think EVERYONE should be working with their CC and bank to reverse the charges..

My point was simply, the bankruptcy court will look at the owners who are owed money to distribute the assets ..

There won't be any assets if everyone reverses the charge.

Don't you have your own special thread designed not to ruin threads like this? There's a lot emotional scars being healed here. Let's just let it run its course.

1. I'm not a lawguy.

2. Just pointing out the contradiction in his statement.

3. Who peed on your cheerios today?

Just to be crystal clear, anyone who wins their case with CC companies..

THE MONEY WILL NOT COME FROM MIKE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE

It has NO RELEVANCE on the bankruptcy proceedings, on any level.. Those who win their case with the CC, the money will be footed by either Paypal or the CC company, they will have to figure it out between themselves.

Won't Paypal or the CC company pull the funds back from his operating account assuming he hasn't filed BK yet?

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Those who win their case with the CC, the money will be footed by either Paypal or the CC company, they will have to figure it out between themselves.

Right, and then the CC bank would be able to jump into the bankruptcy case against Phenoms, LLC.

Is that what you are saying, as well? (A bit confused by the ambiguity at the end of that sentence.)

 

[TheWalk84]

Those who win their case with the CC, the money will be footed by either Paypal or the CC company, they will have to figure it out between themselves.

Right, and then the CC bank would be able to jump into the bankruptcy case against Phenoms, LLC.

Is that what you are saying, as well? (A bit confused by the ambiguity at the end of that sentence.)

No, in all likelyhood, they would do a charge-off as fraud and write it off on taxes, they would not go into the bankruptcy case unless there was a criminal matter discussed (I.E. Wire fraud)

 

[TheWalk84]

And for the record I think EVERYONE should be working with their CC and bank to reverse the charges..

My point was simply, the bankruptcy court will look at the owners who are owed money to distribute the assets ..

There won't be any assets if everyone reverses the charge.

Don't you have your own special thread designed not to ruin threads like this? There's a lot emotional scars being healed here. Let's just let it run its course.

1. I'm not a lawguy.

2. Just pointing out the contradiction in his statement.

3. Who peed on your cheerios today?

Just to be crystal clear, anyone who wins their case with CC companies..

THE MONEY WILL NOT COME FROM MIKE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE

It has NO RELEVANCE on the bankruptcy proceedings, on any level.. Those who win their case with the CC, the money will be footed by either Paypal or the CC company, they will have to figure it out between themselves.

Won't Paypal or the CC company pull the funds back from his operating account assuming he hasn't filed BK yet?

They would assuming you won the case and he still had funds in his account.. but chances are he has done a wire transfer to entirely new accounts that Paypal doesn't have access to...

From a bank's perspective, assuming you win your fraud case, they would do a charge off for fraud, and report it to authorities and on their tax forms.. Kind of like what retailers do when merchandise is shoplifted

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Those who win their case with the CC, the money will be footed by either Paypal or the CC company, they will have to figure it out between themselves.

Right, and then the CC bank would be able to jump into the bankruptcy case against Phenoms, LLC.

Is that what you are saying, as well? (A bit confused by the ambiguity at the end of that sentence.)

No, in all likelyhood, they would do a charge-off as fraud and write it off on taxes, they would not go into the bankruptcy case unless there was a criminal matter discussed (I.E. Wire fraud)

I suppose it could depend on the amount of money, as well, right? If XYZ Bank credits $2000 worth of chargebacks, they might cut their losses. If Bank ABC credits $150,000, they might see it worthwhile to jump in and try to recoup. No?

 

[TheWalk84]

Those who win their case with the CC, the money will be footed by either Paypal or the CC company, they will have to figure it out between themselves.

Right, and then the CC bank would be able to jump into the bankruptcy case against Phenoms, LLC.

Is that what you are saying, as well? (A bit confused by the ambiguity at the end of that sentence.)

No, in all likelyhood, they would do a charge-off as fraud and write it off on taxes, they would not go into the bankruptcy case unless there was a criminal matter discussed (I.E. Wire fraud)

I suppose it could depend on the amount of money, as well, right? If XYZ Bank credits $2000 worth of chargebacks, they might cut their losses. If Bank ABC credits $150,000, they might see it worthwhile to jump in and try to recoup. No?

Absolutely if the bank felt there were enough assets to recover.. To be perfectly honest, that is why most will not be successful winning their claims, because ultimately it is going to be the banks who will foot the bill… but if some do win, it won't be coming from Mike's company

 

[Dizzy]

If the court revives claims for payouts, and one owner's team was 1-10 and didn't make the playoffs, and the other team 10-1 and wins the league and Mike owes them $3000, do you REALLY think they would see both claims as equal?

The bottom line is if the court has an objective way to pay back the unsecured creditors they will use it… And considering according to Mike's bylaws he agreed to pay the PRIZE WINNERS, not everyone… so if the courts have a record of WHO the prize winners are, they will pay them out first, and whatever money is leftover will be paid to the rest of the league members who did not win a prize.

I know that is not what you want to hear dizzy, but objectively speaking the courts will use all available information to determine who will be paid

What court? What claims? Who is filing? What are the charges? When is all of this happening?

This isn't the OJ trial. In the grand scheme of things this isn't even a lot of money.

Either you have not read this thread or you are purposefully trying to be naive...

We are talking about between 1.2-1.6 million dollars in cash and assets...

The court? Is the bankruptcy court he will be filling...

Who is filling the claims? Anyone who feels entitled to money

There are no charges, there are simply an entrustee who manages the money and decides who to pay, though I am pretty sure embezzlement charges will follow at some point

This should happened relatively quickly considering Mike was a one man show so there are no retirement accounts, processing admin fees, or other things that usually slow these proceedings down

I hope I have answered your questions, next time please read and be informed if you are going to try to give your uneducated opinions..

I've read the thread. If YOU read the thread you would see that.

You don't know how much cash is tied up (I'm sure MFL.com got paid), and you don't know if there are ANY real assets.

How do you know Phenoms has filed in any court? Why would they? They're not even officially guilty of anything yet. When is their payout deadline?

Again, NOTHING happens unless people unite and MAKE IT happen.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Those who win their case with the CC, the money will be footed by either Paypal or the CC company, they will have to figure it out between themselves.

Right, and then the CC bank would be able to jump into the bankruptcy case against Phenoms, LLC.

Is that what you are saying, as well? (A bit confused by the ambiguity at the end of that sentence.)

No, in all likelyhood, they would do a charge-off as fraud and write it off on taxes, they would not go into the bankruptcy case unless there was a criminal matter discussed (I.E. Wire fraud)

I suppose it could depend on the amount of money, as well, right? If XYZ Bank credits $2000 worth of chargebacks, they might cut their losses. If Bank ABC credits $150,000, they might see it worthwhile to jump in and try to recoup. No?

Absolutely if the bank felt there were enough assets to recover.. To be perfectly honest, that is why most will not be successful winning their claims, because ultimately it is going to be the banks who will foot the bill… but if some do win, it won't be coming from Mike's company

Right.

And, I agree. I doubt many are going to be successful with charge backs.

It really is a bummer all around. I feel for everyone who has lost money on this.

Unfortunately, I think the only silver lining is that Mike, if he is proven guilty, might suffer a significant enough punishment to discourage others from doing this again.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

How do you know Phenoms has filed in any court?

You have clearly not read the thread, as you have claimed.

 

[Dizzy]

How do you know Phenoms has filed in any court?

You have clearly not read the thread, as you have claimed.

I read it. And I apologize for missing the official Legal notification. I only saw some 2nd hand emails, and lawyers with fake (gmail) accounts.

Good luck guys. Sounds like its all going to work out then.

 

[Davewhit]

I'm going to win my league and stand to lose a lot of money. This is absolute b***s***!!! I am so mad right now. F*** fantasy football, F*** that mother ****** Mike and his piece of s*** bankrupt business. Thanks for ruining what I enjoyed playing for over 15 years. I'm never putting down a dime again on this hobby!! You just can't trust anyone anymore. I hope karma kicks this guy in his b***s for this!

 

[Raider Nation]

The thief err I mean poor business man with the best of intentions had time after feverishly trying to sell the company to set his lineup this week.

http://www8.myfantasyleague.com/2014/live_scoring?L=33199&W=16&FRANCHISES=0012_0015

He just needs about 10 points from Demaryius to make it a VERY Merry Christmas!

 

[Dizzy]

The thief err I mean poor business man with the best of intentions had time after feverishly trying to sell the company to set his lineup this week.

http://www8.myfantasyleague.com/2014/live_scoring?L=33199&W=16&FRANCHISES=0012_0015

He just needs about 10 points from Demaryius to make it a VERY Merry Christmas!

Any way to get hold of the Commish and put a hold on his winnings?

 

[Slider]

The thief err I mean poor business man with the best of intentions had time after feverishly trying to sell the company to set his lineup this week.

http://www8.myfantasyleague.com/2014/live_scoring?L=33199&W=16&FRANCHISES=0012_0015

He just needs about 10 points from Demaryius to make it a VERY Merry Christmas!

Any way to get hold of the Commish and put a hold on his winnings?

One doesn't affect the other. As bad as it is life still goes on.

 

[ebsteelers]

no dog in this but.. when that commissh sends money out to him, he obviously as a place he is sending it, is it his pay pal, or some where you guys can contact?

 

[BassNBrew]

The thief err I mean poor business man with the best of intentions had time after feverishly trying to sell the company to set his lineup this week.

http://www8.myfantasyleague.com/2014/live_scoring?L=33199&W=16&FRANCHISES=0012_0015

He just needs about 10 points from Demaryius to make it a VERY Merry Christmas!

Has he already won money?

 

[BRONG]

What is being lost in all of this is the fact that there is still up to 40% being paid out. Read the email for gods sake!!!!

who in their right mind is not setting their lineups??? just a dum move not to.

I have some bridges in New York for sale...

HUH???? I hope that was derrogitory. better not have been.

It's an old expression. I was implying that you are gullible for believing his email that he would pay 40% of the prizes.

Hello he's been doing this for over 10 years! and did you not see the email from his law firm saying how they are going to take care of things??

 

[robcards]

So in 12 leagues I have 5 1sts, a 2nd, and 2 3rds along with 3 points leaders. Reality finally hit with how much money I've lost because of this, even if somehow my chargebacks are 100% refunded. I hope for my legal safety that I'm never in the same room as Mike Zangrilli.

 

[cstu]

The thief err I mean poor business man with the best of intentions had time after feverishly trying to sell the company to set his lineup this week.

http://www8.myfantasyleague.com/2014/live_scoring?L=33199&W=16&FRANCHISES=0012_0015

He just needs about 10 points from Demaryius to make it a VERY Merry Christmas!

Has he already won money?

One million dollars!

 

[cstu]

Utah has a 3 year statute of limitation on fraud. All he has to do is lie low for 3 years, try to avoid charges (muh website costs) and he comes out of it a free man and a millionaire.

 

[Penguin]

Three titles. five 3rd places, 12 deposits

 

[mbuehner]

Say you play with one dollar and you win the national lottery. Then it turns out the national lottery is broke and can't pay you. Do you have legal standing to claim your full winnings or just your one dollar back?

Saying everyone is entitled to their money back makes no sense. If you are not owed any money by the Phenom leagues, then you haven't been wronged in any legal way. Phenoms has fulfilled its obligation to you of providing you with a league, platform, etc. The only people who will have legal standing are the ones who are owed something, whether it is prize money or deposits. It's pretty straight-forward, just like with any other scam.

Say you run a private lottery. You advertise $100M in prizes. You take in $100M in cash. One guy finally wins, but you can't pay him because you stole all the money.

Is only that one guy entitled to his dollar back? Is only that one guy wronged?

Fantasy football isn't a lottery. Not sure why people don't get that. Most leagues aren't won by luck. They are won with diligence and forsight. Not pulled from a hat.

OK, how about a contest which is 100% skill? Let's say, a spelling bee. I advertise it as having $1M in prizes with a $100 entry fee. 10,000 people sign up. I steal the $1M. The best speller wins and I can't pay her. Is only the best speller entitled to recompense?

Let's make this even simpler then. Me and you enter a bet. I lose the bet. After I lose, I find out that - had I won - you wouldn't have had the resources to pay me. Am I entitled to my bet money back?

I think the clear answer is no. Phenom owes people their winnings and deposits, not their entry fees. Note that the pool of money in the same in both cases, but it's the distribution that changes.

PS - For those that use the lottery analogy, it makes all the difference if the balls are picked. If the lottery goes bust before the balls are picked, everyone is entitled to their entry fee back. If it goes bust after - then there are lottery winners and losers.

This wasn't a bet it was an entry fee, which I paid up front.There was nothing in the contest rules which stated after week 14 any prize money would be paid. The 4th place team is not supposed to get money under the "contest" rules. But now they do? Or do you change the rules to say whoever finished 1-3 after week 14 gets the prize money? Also what about the point leaders? That was supposed to go through week 16. Is only that portion of the contest null and void?

I'm not sure I understand who "won" these leagues since they were never finished. The leagues I made the playoffs in I have just as much chance of winning as the leagues I didn't qualify for, payout is the same.

There is no contest, because the violation of the agreement between the contestants and management nullified it. Therefore everyone iinvolved is entitled to a refund. The presumed winners are free to sue for damages as well, but thats a separate issue.

 

[jon_mx]

This argument over money which does not exist is interesting.

 

[JPackers]

Heck with bankruptcy court,should be criminal court,first and foremost.I didn't borrow Mike any money,or agree to invest in his company.He stole my money,and alot of others,ya old story I know.Just sickened by it,and in one of my leagues,an owners feels sorry for Mike,delusional,or maybe Mike himself under an alias name.Who is to say he doesn't run any teams in Phenoms.With the turnover rate on the dynasties I have been in,it seems plausible that Mike may have taken over teams to keep dynasties from being shutdown with the majority of owners paid for the year,plus extra profits if he was in the money in any of them.Who knows,maybe he treated himself to some high stakes games as well hoping for extra profits.I took over an orphaned team a few years ago,and the owner that dropped that team,took over another team in that league that had been orphaned,then orphaned that team the following year.This would go with the timing of the announcement as well.He missed the playoffs in too many leagues,and saw he was too far in the red.In the rules,the commissioner is able to view pending owner initiated transactions,wouldn't matter in wtf waivers,but with bb waivers that would give him a clear advantage over every other owner,and since trades are processed immediately there was no reason in my mind,other than cheating,that the commish would need this setting on.All of this is probably a reach,but any other dyno owners have owners with no last names take over orphaned teams in your leagues>?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

And also for those of you wondering if someone could theoretically double dip and get their charges reversed while also getting a settlement, the answer is no.

Those who got their charges reversed, will not be eligible to be put in a claim, and if they do, the entrustee will simply dismiss anyone who has had their charges reversed..

Just for clarification

I'm not in any of these leagues, but as an outsider I'd like to ask for those that are-

If you are owed winnings are you potentially shooting yourself in the foot asking for charges to be reversed? Of course the likelihood of either winning the dispute with the credit card or that there is anything to distribute at bankruptcy proceedings play in to this but assuming both are close enough to be equally likely.

Also, in bankruptcy would a company that provided services (example: pretend that the development story is legit) have a better, lesser, or equal claim of whatever assets are still around than those that entered the contests? In such a case (legally) would the fund being in a separate bank accounts matter? Again, I'm not asking this from the perspective of believing anyone here, but more for how much such promises of separate accounts really matter for in the future.

Thanks.

 

[Dizzy]

Three titles. five 3rd places, 12 deposits

So what are you planning to do about it?

 

[MCguidance]

He up and vanished, like a fart in the wind.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

He up and vanished, like a fart in the wind.

If he had egg salad for lunch, this could get interesting.

 

[lynx4ben]

I personally do not believe the bankruptcy story. That is also made up like everything else. He's using this forum and probably a few aliases to feed everyone a line. He ran off with the money, guy wanted to get rich quick.

 

[Todem]

This argument over money which does not exist is interesting.

Exactly. It's gone, all gone.

Never to return.

 

[graywolfe81]

Count me amongst those defrauded. It's twice bitter as family, friends, and I were also swindled by antsports a year ago. I am not losing nearly as much money as some, as I spread my money around different platforms and local friends leagues, and I never leave money on deposit in any account (interest free loans seemed kind of silly, since i didnt trust the guys much to begin with). Like many of you i made the idiotic assumption that antsports was an abberation, I didn't realize there had been numerous leagues that had gone under, stealing players money in the process the last several years.

For me, i had a lot of injuries this year, and so 3 of my 4 phenoms teams missed out (2 missing the playoffs by a game, and thankfully 4 of my 5 title game participants this past year were at fuzzys, fantasybowl, and in 2 local friends leagues, so only 1 of my 5 teams set to pay me well was at phenoms). The sad thing for me was that my winner was an experimental team that was one of my best ever built: i decided to do a post week 1 auction league squad, and focused on going after players who had off week 1's and would be available on discount (Graham, Charles, Lacy etc) from their early august auction prices, I got all three of them for 30% or more cheaper than they were going for before week 1, and was busy patting myself on the back for a brilliant season on my 40th birthday last saturday when the news came down.

Just brutal.

At this point I'd have to agree w/the consensus: I am no longer going to entrust much money into any site ever again, I'll spread my money around so I can never be taken for too much by any one league. I can't quit this hobby, I'm not going to full myself into thinking I can, I enjoy it too much, but I'm going to try to mitigate risk as much as possible by never booking multiple leagues in any online site as I did at antsports and Phenoms.

I have no expectation of getting my money back, but it is pretty sickening. I'm a teacher, and flat out don't make enough money to be defrauded by vile cretins like this guy, now having been welched on by antsports, phenoms, and a local friend of the girlfriend in the past year, I'm just out of ideas, especially if apparently leaguesafe isn't necessairly safe either.

How in the hell can anything be proven to be reliable and trustworthy at this point? I guess I'll just have to consider the money a sunk cost for having fun (something I already do), w/no expectations one way or the other on the site holding up its obligations honorably at the end of the year.

As for the owner of the site. It's despicable, and I don't understand how anyone can defend the guy. The concept isn't difficult, his profits were his 10-20% off the top of league fees period, the winnings were never his in the first place. It's fraud and theft and I would assume illegal to do what he did in any sane world. Just a p.o.s. person, period. I don't care if he was nice or friendly, so was antsports steve, it didn't stop him from defrauded me of my orphaned keeper team (I bought a team a year ago on discount, and when he merged leagues he: took my keepers away so the team could fit together (some other team had the same keepers), then blocked my phone calls, and blocked my attempts at trading down in the draft when i realized he wouldn't give me my money back, or move me to other leagues: the coup de grace was when i had agreements to trade down so i could get extra picks in the keepable rounds (4th-18th), he stepped in and blocked the expletive trades). Nice guy superficially, but like Mike, had no problem committing fraud, and defrauding thousands of players of over a million dollars for his own interests: in other words, both guys are steaming piles of expletive, and criminals to boot.

 

[JohnnyU]

now having been welched on by antsports, phenoms, and a local friend of the girlfriend in the past year, I'm just out of ideas, especially if apparently leaguesafe isn't

What happened with the local friend of the girlfriend?

 

[graywolfe81]

Beat him in the league title game (he had the better team but had an off week), he never paid, he's not someone i actually know, but still it's absurd, second time a friend of a friend welched. It's not just online leagues that are unreliable, there are just some people that can't be relied upon either. What's particularly ugly is this guy comes from a wealthy family and has plenty of money.

 

[JohnnyU]

Beat him in the league title game (he had the better team but had an off week), he never paid, he's not someone i actually know, but still it's absurd, second time a friend of a friend welched. It's not just online leagues that are unreliable, there are just some people that can't be relied upon either. What's particularly ugly is this guy comes from a wealthy family and has plenty of money.

Did you confront him about it? What was his reason for not paying?

 

[graywolfe81]

No response, no excuses. He just flat out hasn't responded.

 

[JohnnyU]

No response, no excuses. He just flat out hasn't responded.

I would introduce my keys to the side of his car and a knife to his tires.

 

[ebsteelers]

dont you have to pay before the season starts to play in the season?

myffpc seems good how they keep their money, but alot of their leagues are higher priced,

masters i havent had a problem with them yet

nffc - no problems there either

or go the dfs route

i dont play local leagues anymore, always is an issue getting people to pay , whether you are 15 years old or 50.

 

[Touchdown There]

now having been welched on by antsports, phenoms, and a local friend of the girlfriend in the past year, I'm just out of ideas, especially if apparently leaguesafe isn't

What happened with the local friend of the girlfriend?

I heard he doinked his girlfriend, kept his ff winnings, then stole his bike.

 

[JohnnyU]

now having been welched on by antsports, phenoms, and a local friend of the girlfriend in the past year, I'm just out of ideas, especially if apparently leaguesafe isn't

What happened with the local friend of the girlfriend?

I heard he doinked his girlfriend, kept his ff winnings, then stole his bike.

That's how Cassius Clay got started in boxing.