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Player Spotlight: Marion Barber (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Zoo York
2008 Player Spotlight Series

One of Footballguys best assets is our message board community. The Shark Pool is, in our view, the best place on the internet to discuss, debate and analyze all things fantasy football. In what's become an annual tradition, the Player Spotlight series is a key part of the preseason efforts. As many of you know, we consider the Player Spotlight threads the permanent record for analyzing the fantasy prospects of the player in question. Last year, we published more than 140 offensive spotlights covering the vast majority of expected skill position starters. This year will be no different.

Each week we will post a list of players to be discussed. Those threads will remain open for the entire preseason, and should be a central point to discussion expectations for the player in question. Importantly, analysis done in the first week of posting will be part of the permanent record in two ways. 1) At the end of the week, we will tally the projections into a consensus. 2) We will select a number of pull quotes from forum contributors who make a compelling statement or observation. Both the projections and pull quotes will be part of a published article on the main website.

Thread Topic: Marion Barber, RB, Dallas Cowboys

Player Page Link: Marion Barber Player Page

Each article will include:

Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member
Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads
FBG Projections
Consensus Member ProjectionsThe Rules

In order for this thread to provide maximum value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

Focus commentary on the player in question, and your expectations for said player
Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"
To be included in the final synopsis and consensus outlook, you MUST provide projections for the playerProjections should include (at a minimum):

For QBs: Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Yards, Rush TDs
For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs
For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDsNow let's get on with the conversation! We look forward to your contributions and let me offer a personal thanks in anticipation of the great debate and analysis.

 
I've seen him in many top-5's and he's very overrated if he's being taken there IMO.

I have him as an early second rounder this year. Felix Jones is just as big a threat as Julius Jones was.

1100-12 seems fair, but he could easily finish with 900-10 depending on how explosive Jones.

 
Barber will see an increased role in 2008, but still not become a true bellcow. Jones was brought in for a reason and will get touches. None the less, Barber has proven he is capable of RB1 fantasy points while sharing carries. Mainly because he gets the redzone and GL looks. That isn't going to change.

220 carries, 1056 yds, 13 TDs

38 receptions, 250 yds, 1 TD

 
I think Barber will be the primary back in Big D this year and his touches should go up, but not as much as some people think. One thing is clear, in Dallas you pass first and run second. To keep everyone (T.O.) happy the ball is going to have to be thrown early and often. Don’t get me wrong when Barber gets the ball he will make something happen, I just don’t think he will touch the ball more than 250-280 times. So my projection are

Rushes 250

Rushing Yards 1200

Rush TDs 12

Receptions 30

Receiving Yards 180

Receiving TDs 1

 
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Barber is one of the best sure things in the league... You will surely get above Top RB10 production.

Redrafters have nothing to worry about from Felix

 
He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee. If he can get enough touches in this offense I think the sky's the limit. Top-10, Top-5, Top-3. If everything broke right for him he could even be the #1 fantasy RB. He has that kind of upside.

 
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He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee. If he can get enough touches in this offense I think the sky's the limit. Top-10, Top-5, Top-3. If everything broke right for him he could even be the #1 fantasy RB. He has that kind of upside.
hes right. Mb3 runs hard.
 
He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee. If he can get enough touches in this offense I think the sky's the limit. Top-10, Top-5, Top-3. If everything broke right for him he could even be the #1 fantasy RB. He has that kind of upside.
Preach it brothaman. Top fantasy back in 08. Music to my ears.If only everybody saw it the way me and you do.
 
He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee. If he can get enough touches in this offense I think the sky's the limit. Top-10, Top-5, Top-3. If everything broke right for him he could even be the #1 fantasy RB. He has that kind of upside.
Preach it brothaman. Top fantasy back in 08. Music to my ears.If only everybody saw it the way me and you do.
No way.. let them continue to draft guys like Lynch and Gore ahead of MBIII... MBIII will gold; I regret not getting him in leagues last yr

 
He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee. If he can get enough touches in this offense I think the sky's the limit. Top-10, Top-5, Top-3. If everything broke right for him he could even be the #1 fantasy RB. He has that kind of upside.
:shrug: As far as touches go, Julius Jones and his 165 rushes and 23 receptions are gone. Felix Jones won't take away near as much of the workload Julius did last season. Barber is Top 5 guaranteed in PPR leagues. However, the truly great thing about Barber will be his consistent production. He'll put up about 100 yards and a score each week, along with a handful of catches. It will be tough to have this guy on your team and not win your league next season.290 carries 1363 yards48 recepts 336 yards14 TD's
 
MBIII is a fantastic RB. The only thing standing in the way of a top-5 fantasy finish is the Dallas RBBC system, but there will still be plenty to go around in what should be one of the best offenses in the NFL.

250 carries for 1200 yards, 35 catches for 275 yards, 13 total TDs

 
Barber runs hard and is a goalline stud. DAL's offense will be near the goalline an awful lot again this year, so I feel that Barber will be a top 10 RB even without a full load.

240 car, 1075 yds rushing, 13 TDs

40 rec, 300 yds rec, 1 TD

 
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Barber's been top 10 the last 2 years in a RBBC and JJones is now gone. Sure FJones will get his share of carries but not as many as JJones did. Barber will still get double digit TDs cuz this offense is just too good for him not too.

256 att, 1254 yds, 12 td, 32 rec, 256 yds, 2 td (obvious mid 1st rounder IMO).

 
KellysHeroes said:
Funbags said:
He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee. If he can get enough touches in this offense I think the sky's the limit. Top-10, Top-5, Top-3. If everything broke right for him he could even be the #1 fantasy RB. He has that kind of upside.
Preach it brothaman. Top fantasy back in 08. Music to my ears.If only everybody saw it the way me and you do.
No way.. let them continue to draft guys like Lynch and Gore ahead of MBIII... MBIII will gold; I regret not getting him in leagues last yr
:loco: MBIII > Gore & Lynch this year
 
Marion Barber is a beast, but he does not have any self-preservaton instinct. He seems to never run out of bounds and appears to look for LBs and SSs to punish as they make the tackle. For the sake of Cowboy fans and Barber owners, he needs to develop a little sense of LT and his penchant for stepping out of bounds before the hit. He truly is one of the hardest runners in the NFL.

I don't expect Felix Jones to siphon off as many carries as the previous Jones did, unless Barber is injured. I never project injuries, but the way Barber runs sure does give me pause. So, the quandry is whether he will indeed get more opportunities as the starter than he has in the previous three years. I'll project an increase of 15% on rushing opportunities over last year. Receptions may slip a little as that will be Felix Jones role more than JJ a year ago.

Barber 235 carries for 1,128 yards (4.8 ypc) and 40 catches for 260 yards (6.5 ypc) and 13 total TDs

 
Marion Barber is a beast, but he does not have any self-preservaton instinct. He seems to never run out of bounds and appears to look for LBs and SSs to punish as they make the tackle. For the sake of Cowboy fans and Barber owners, he needs to develop a little sense of LT and his penchant for stepping out of bounds before the hit. He truly is one of the hardest runners in the NFL.I don't expect Felix Jones to siphon off as many carries as the previous Jones did, unless Barber is injured. I never project injuries, but the way Barber runs sure does give me pause. So, the quandry is whether he will indeed get more opportunities as the starter than he has in the previous three years. I'll project an increase of 15% on rushing opportunities over last year. Receptions may slip a little as that will be Felix Jones role more than JJ a year ago.Barber 235 carries for 1,128 yards (4.8 ypc) and 40 catches for 260 yards (6.5 ypc) and 13 total TDs
Agree 100% and I also would log in projections similar to what you have.240 carries 1,150 yds, 40 rec 280 yds and 12 total TD
 
Barber will see an increased role in 2008, but still not become a true bellcow. Jones was brought in for a reason and will get touches. None the less, Barber has proven he is capable of RB1 fantasy points while sharing carries. Mainly because he gets the redzone and GL looks. That isn't going to change.220 carries, 1056 yds, 13 TDs38 receptions, 250 yds, 1 TD
I am in total agreement with these projections and analysis.
 
Bankerguy said:
Barber will see an increased role in 2008, but still not become a true bellcow. Jones was brought in for a reason and will get touches. None the less, Barber has proven he is capable of RB1 fantasy points while sharing carries. Mainly because he gets the redzone and GL looks. That isn't going to change.220 carries, 1056 yds, 13 TDs38 receptions, 250 yds, 1 TD
I am in total agreement with these projections and analysis.
Another Cowboy homer agreeing with these projections and analysis.
 
Bankerguy said:
Barber will see an increased role in 2008, but still not become a true bellcow. Jones was brought in for a reason and will get touches. None the less, Barber has proven he is capable of RB1 fantasy points while sharing carries. Mainly because he gets the redzone and GL looks. That isn't going to change.220 carries, 1056 yds, 13 TDs38 receptions, 250 yds, 1 TD
I am in total agreement with these projections and analysis.
16 more carries over the course of the season than last year? Hmmmm. IMHO that prediction is really hard to justify when you predict "an increased role" but project 1 carry per game increase. In the initial 6 games of 2007, Barber averaged 10.8 carries per game; in the final 10 games he averaged 16.6 carries per game even though he had a mere 7 carries twice during that span. I can't see any reason to predict less than 16 carries per game when his backup is going from JJ to 2 unseasoned rookies. I have to give him a bigger bump than that.250/1200/1340/250/2
 
The stage is set for Marion Barber to have a career year. He's finally the starting running back, there's no way a defense can go into a game and put 8 guys in the box on 1st and 2nd down considering the rest of the Dallas offense and he hasn't had a ton of carries to date in his relatively short career.

I am worried in the fact that an old handicapper once told me never bet a favorite if the favorite is being asked to do something he's never done before. In this case, the favorite is Marion Barber and the thing he's never done before is head into the season as a starting running back.

He runs so hard and powerful, I have a slight concern that he'll tire some towards the end of the season if indeed he gets near 300 carries. However, with those concerns in mind, I still have Barber penciled in around RB 5 or 6, ahead of guys like Frank Gore and Clinton Portis. I see Barber being a work horse and if I'm picking 6-9 in a redraft, this is the guy I'm targeting.

1200 yards rushing, 11 Td's

40 receptions 320 yards and 2td's

 
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Barber will see an increased role in 2008, but still not become a true bellcow. Jones was brought in for a reason and will get touches. None the less, Barber has proven he is capable of RB1 fantasy points while sharing carries. Mainly because he gets the redzone and GL looks. That isn't going to change.220 carries, 1056 yds, 13 TDs38 receptions, 250 yds, 1 TD
I am in total agreement with these projections and analysis.
16 more carries over the course of the season than last year? Hmmmm. IMHO that prediction is really hard to justify when you predict "an increased role" but project 1 carry per game increase. In the initial 6 games of 2007, Barber averaged 10.8 carries per game; in the final 10 games he averaged 16.6 carries per game even though he had a mere 7 carries twice during that span. I can't see any reason to predict less than 16 carries per game when his backup is going from JJ to 2 unseasoned rookies. I have to give him a bigger bump than that.250/1200/1340/250/2
Last year in transition between the two RBs, Julius saw 164 carries as the "second" RB (even though he was the "starter"). On the other hand, the two years Barber was the "second" RB, he saw 135 and 138 carries.The two years Jones was the "primary" RB, he saw 257 and 267 carries. The year Barber was the "primary" RB, he saw 204 carries.So, over the last three years, the two RBs have seen 392, 405, and 368 carries between them. Interestingly, that total dropped by about 2 carries per game with a) Barber becoming the "primary" RB, and b) Romo blossoming this past season.I think it's safe to assume two things a) this will be a passing team, as it moved that way with Romo's growth, and b) the RBs will continue to have a significant split in carries.Is there any reason to think Felix Jones will see 164 carries, when it's been the peak number of carries for the secondary RB the past three years? No.To the converse, is there any reason to expect Marion Barber to see 267 carries, when it's been the peak number of carries for the primary RB over the last three years? No.I do believe the number of carries will be higher than last season, but not likely topping 400. In fact I'd guess they finish between 380-390 carries between the two top RBs.Of that split, I don't see Barber taking 70% (or 273) carries. I just can't see him getting that workload. It would require 17 carries per game (272) and there were only three games last season where he had 17+ carries. And only two other games his entire career, making 5 over three seasons where he saw 17+ carries. To his credit, those games have also been some of the best in his career, not merely because of opportunity, but even in yards per carry.Realistically, the 250 is probably accurate. Maybe even 260. I do worry if they give Barber a very heavy workload early in the season while they work in Jones, that he may wear down. He's never really had a heavy workload, not even back in college. And when you watched him in the playoffs... he had 16 carries in the first half of that playoff game, and he looked totally beat in the second half. I can see him on occasion having a great game with 20 carries or so, but if it's a regular thing he's not going to hold up IMO.So, as for carries, 250-260 is very realistic IMO. Can he sustain 4.8 YPC on that workload? Well, given that over the last 10 games of last season he DID receive that workload, it should give us a good indicator of what he'll do on 16-17 carries a game. And the answer is 4.26 YPC. So a realistic yards projection is 1,075-1,118 yards (giving him 4.3 YPC). Now looking at receptions...Is it realistic to project 40 receptions for Barber, following his career high of 44, previously averaging about 20?Well, how did the RBs fare in the past three years? Jones compiled 67 receptions over the last three years, an average of 22, a peak of 35, a low of 9.Barber, again compiled 85 total, an average of 26, a peak of 44, and a low of 18.They've brought in Felix Jones, who played some WR in college, and was a better receiver in college than Barber was. That doesn't necessarily translate to the pros, but we can safely assume they will use Jones quite a bit in the passing game.It's probably reasonable to conclude that Barber recedes to his average, or even to his prior two year's average in receptions, especially if they use him more in the running game. So projecting 24 receptions seems appropriate.Barber's career average on receptions is 7.0, but that is bumped by one season at 8.5, whereas the other two were both 6.4 YPR. So 6.5 is probably an accurate number to project for him, giving him 156 yards.A good projection then, based on team history, Barber's history, the way the back's have been used, and the direction the team is moving toward, and the personnel they have... is:255 carries, 1100 yards24 receptions, 156 yards13 TDs (more than his average and last season, but less than his peak)Totalling in non-PPR 203 FF pointsThat was good for RB 7 last year but RB 10 in 2006 and 2005.It's safe to say Barber will likely be a borderline top-10 RB again.
 
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He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee.
Actually, yes they did.
Then I guess that's money wasted. It doesn't make sense for a team to make a guy one of the highest paid running backs (which by extension means that they think he's one of the best running backs in the NFL) only to have him split touches or not get most of them.It seems like a lot of you're assumptions for Marion Barber are based on Felix Jones becoming a major part of the Cowboys offense. Considering that he's never even played a single down in the NFL I'm not sure I'd make that kind of leap just yet.

 
The guy can do pretty much everything on the field. He's got the Speed and agility, he's got the power and the hard running, and the great receiving abililty. Dallas's offense is going to give him plenty of opportunities, they finished 6th in Rushing last year, and 13th in points. I think Felix Jones is more a change of pace back than an integral part of a RBBC. People point to Barber's contract as evidence he'll get more touches, I think Julius Jones being gone, and the 2nd back a rookie is evidence enough. Some people point out he's never carried the load, and there's no proof he can, but the 3 times he's gotten 20 carries in a game, he's finished with:

22 rushes 95 yards

27 rushes 127 yards 2 tds

22 rushes 110 yards 1 td.

So, everytime he's gotten at least 20 carries, he's rushed for an average of 110 yards and 1 td.

275 Rushes

1320 Yards

13 Rushing Tds

50 receptions

355 Receiving Yards

3 Receiving Tds

325 Touches

1675 Total Yards

16 Tds

Should finally break the top 5.

 
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He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee.
Actually, yes they did.
Then I guess that's money wasted. It doesn't make sense for a team to make a guy one of the highest paid running backs (which by extension means that they think he's one of the best running backs in the NFL) only to have him split touches or not get most of them.It seems like a lot of you're assumptions for Marion Barber are based on Felix Jones becoming a major part of the Cowboys offense. Considering that he's never even played a single down in the NFL I'm not sure I'd make that kind of leap just yet.
Nope, I'm basing my assumptions on how the Cowboys offense has functioned, and on how the coaches have said they want to use the two RBs.Regardless of how much they pay him they are going to use a committee approach as they have.

As for thinking Jones won't be a major part.... he was a first round pick. Teams don't draft players in the first round they don't plan on having an impact this year. Unless you are advocating Fargas over McFadden, Williams over Stewart, etc. which is pretty ridiculous.

 
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felix will be a better compliment than julius ever was. the past few years mbiii was undervalued and a steal in drafts. this year it changes as the value will be felix in the 10th round instead of mbiii in the mid first.

mbiii = 200-880-9, 30-210-1

 
felix will be a better compliment than julius ever was. the past few years mbiii was undervalued and a steal in drafts. this year it changes as the value will be felix in the 10th round instead of mbiii in the mid first.mbiii = 200-880-9, 30-210-1
I'm the biggest Felix fan on this board, and agree 100% that he will be a better complement than Julius was, and a bigger threat to Barber's time, but....Predicting only 200 carries for Barber is really way way way too low. Julius Jones got @260 as the starter, and that's about what Barber should get. They are passing more, so I expect the total rushes around 390. That gives Barber 250-260, and Jones 130-140 (which is about what Barber got in the #2 role).I really don't see that mix changing substantially. Unless these is an injury, or Felix Jones totally sucks.
 
Last year in transition between the two RBs, Julius saw 164 carries as the "second" RB (even though he was the "starter"). On the other hand, the two years Barber was the "second" RB, he saw 135 and 138 carries.The two years Jones was the "primary" RB, he saw 257 and 267 carries. The year Barber was the "primary" RB, he saw 204 carries.So, over the last three years, the two RBs have seen 392, 405, and 368 carries between them. Interestingly, that total dropped by about 2 carries per game with a) Barber becoming the "primary" RB, and b) Romo blossoming this past season.I think it's safe to assume two things a) this will be a passing team, as it moved that way with Romo's growth, and b) the RBs will continue to have a significant split in carries.Is there any reason to think Felix Jones will see 164 carries, when it's been the peak number of carries for the secondary RB the past three years? No.To the converse, is there any reason to expect Marion Barber to see 267 carries, when it's been the peak number of carries for the primary RB over the last three years? No.I do believe the number of carries will be higher than last season, but not likely topping 400. In fact I'd guess they finish between 380-390 carries between the two top RBs.Of that split, I don't see Barber taking 70% (or 273) carries. I just can't see him getting that workload. It would require 17 carries per game (272) and there were only three games last season where he had 17+ carries. And only two other games his entire career, making 5 over three seasons where he saw 17+ carries. To his credit, those games have also been some of the best in his career, not merely because of opportunity, but even in yards per carry.Realistically, the 250 is probably accurate. Maybe even 260. I do worry if they give Barber a very heavy workload early in the season while they work in Jones, that he may wear down. He's never really had a heavy workload, not even back in college. And when you watched him in the playoffs... he had 16 carries in the first half of that playoff game, and he looked totally beat in the second half. I can see him on occasion having a great game with 20 carries or so, but if it's a regular thing he's not going to hold up IMO.So, as for carries, 250-260 is very realistic IMO. Can he sustain 4.8 YPC on that workload? Well, given that over the last 10 games of last season he DID receive that workload, it should give us a good indicator of what he'll do on 16-17 carries a game. And the answer is 4.26 YPC. So a realistic yards projection is 1,075-1,118 yards (giving him 4.3 YPC). Now looking at receptions...Is it realistic to project 40 receptions for Barber, following his career high of 44, previously averaging about 20?Well, how did the RBs fare in the past three years? Jones compiled 67 receptions over the last three years, an average of 22, a peak of 35, a low of 9.Barber, again compiled 85 total, an average of 26, a peak of 44, and a low of 18.They've brought in Felix Jones, who played some WR in college, and was a better receiver in college than Barber was. That doesn't necessarily translate to the pros, but we can safely assume they will use Jones quite a bit in the passing game.It's probably reasonable to conclude that Barber recedes to his average, or even to his prior two year's average in receptions, especially if they use him more in the running game. So projecting 24 receptions seems appropriate.Barber's career average on receptions is 7.0, but that is bumped by one season at 8.5, whereas the other two were both 6.4 YPR. So 6.5 is probably an accurate number to project for him, giving him 156 yards.A good projection then, based on team history, Barber's history, the way the back's have been used, and the direction the team is moving toward, and the personnel they have... is:255 carries, 1100 yards24 receptions, 156 yards13 TDs (more than his average and last season, but less than his peak)Totalling in non-PPR 203 FF pointsThat was good for RB 7 last year but RB 10 in 2006 and 2005.It's safe to say Barber will likely be a borderline top-10 RB again.
:fishing: I like him for a few more receptions as he was targeted 10+% of the time by Romo in 2007. If he is on the field a little more, and Dallas continues to throw 57-58% of the time (as we should expect that they will), I don't think it is unreasonable to figure him to get the same number of targets as last season, if not more (although I am looking for him to maintain the numbers from last year in this regard).260-1118-11 on the ground42-295-1 through the air
 
He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee.
Actually, yes they did.
Then I guess that's money wasted. It doesn't make sense for a team to make a guy one of the highest paid running backs (which by extension means that they think he's one of the best running backs in the NFL) only to have him split touches or not get most of them.It seems like a lot of you're assumptions for Marion Barber are based on Felix Jones becoming a major part of the Cowboys offense. Considering that he's never even played a single down in the NFL I'm not sure I'd make that kind of leap just yet.
Contrary to the belief of some, NFL teams will reward players for past performance with inflated contracts. Barber had a 4th round rookie contract and outplayed it. A contract isnt always about future performance. The Cowboys arent neccessarilly saying Barber is worth the current contract. Also, with 30 million not guaranteed, it could be like a lot of contracts with performance clauses that are unlikely to be met. Or, just as likely, it could be a case where the player is expected to either be cut or renegotiated halfway through the contract. Here is your reward for your past performance Barber (guaranteed money), and some incentive to continue to perform, but we will draft another RB in the first who will also get a chance to perform.
 
I have Barber as the 6th RB behind LT, Peterson, SJax, Addai, and Westbrook.
Same here; I think anywhere between 6 and 10 is a good spot. If you look at the guy's rushing average, combined with how many TD's he puts up and over the course of an entire year the man could be phenomenal. 4.8 yard average and a TD every 20 times he touches the ball? Yeah I'd pencil him in at #6.
 
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Haven't done my projections for the Dallas O as a whole yet, but I think something in the neighborhood of 250-270 carries is a reasonable expectation. Another 30-40 receptions. Total yardage or TDs, I haven't the foggiest at present, but I'm in the camp that he's likely going to be right on the border(the good side) of the top ten.

I'm seeing him being drafted at RB 6-7 in a lot of the mocks I'm watching/participating in lately. Not sure I'd be willing to do that yet.

 
Barber will see an increased role in 2008, but still not become a true bellcow. Jones was brought in for a reason and will get touches. None the less, Barber has proven he is capable of RB1 fantasy points while sharing carries. Mainly because he gets the redzone and GL looks. That isn't going to change.220 carries, 1056 yds, 13 TDs38 receptions, 250 yds, 1 TD
I am in total agreement with these projections and analysis.
16 more carries over the course of the season than last year? Hmmmm. IMHO that prediction is really hard to justify when you predict "an increased role" but project 1 carry per game increase. In the initial 6 games of 2007, Barber averaged 10.8 carries per game; in the final 10 games he averaged 16.6 carries per game even though he had a mere 7 carries twice during that span. I can't see any reason to predict less than 16 carries per game when his backup is going from JJ to 2 unseasoned rookies. I have to give him a bigger bump than that.250/1200/1340/250/2
Last year in transition between the two RBs, Julius saw 164 carries as the "second" RB (even though he was the "starter"). On the other hand, the two years Barber was the "second" RB, he saw 135 and 138 carries.The two years Jones was the "primary" RB, he saw 257 and 267 carries. The year Barber was the "primary" RB, he saw 204 carries.So, over the last three years, the two RBs have seen 392, 405, and 368 carries between them. Interestingly, that total dropped by about 2 carries per game with a) Barber becoming the "primary" RB, and b) Romo blossoming this past season.I think it's safe to assume two things a) this will be a passing team, as it moved that way with Romo's growth, and b) the RBs will continue to have a significant split in carries.Is there any reason to think Felix Jones will see 164 carries, when it's been the peak number of carries for the secondary RB the past three years? No.To the converse, is there any reason to expect Marion Barber to see 267 carries, when it's been the peak number of carries for the primary RB over the last three years? No.I do believe the number of carries will be higher than last season, but not likely topping 400. In fact I'd guess they finish between 380-390 carries between the two top RBs.Of that split, I don't see Barber taking 70% (or 273) carries. I just can't see him getting that workload. It would require 17 carries per game (272) and there were only three games last season where he had 17+ carries. And only two other games his entire career, making 5 over three seasons where he saw 17+ carries. To his credit, those games have also been some of the best in his career, not merely because of opportunity, but even in yards per carry.Realistically, the 250 is probably accurate. Maybe even 260. I do worry if they give Barber a very heavy workload early in the season while they work in Jones, that he may wear down. He's never really had a heavy workload, not even back in college. And when you watched him in the playoffs... he had 16 carries in the first half of that playoff game, and he looked totally beat in the second half. I can see him on occasion having a great game with 20 carries or so, but if it's a regular thing he's not going to hold up IMO.So, as for carries, 250-260 is very realistic IMO. Can he sustain 4.8 YPC on that workload? Well, given that over the last 10 games of last season he DID receive that workload, it should give us a good indicator of what he'll do on 16-17 carries a game. And the answer is 4.26 YPC. So a realistic yards projection is 1,075-1,118 yards (giving him 4.3 YPC). Now looking at receptions...Is it realistic to project 40 receptions for Barber, following his career high of 44, previously averaging about 20?Well, how did the RBs fare in the past three years? Jones compiled 67 receptions over the last three years, an average of 22, a peak of 35, a low of 9.Barber, again compiled 85 total, an average of 26, a peak of 44, and a low of 18.They've brought in Felix Jones, who played some WR in college, and was a better receiver in college than Barber was. That doesn't necessarily translate to the pros, but we can safely assume they will use Jones quite a bit in the passing game.It's probably reasonable to conclude that Barber recedes to his average, or even to his prior two year's average in receptions, especially if they use him more in the running game. So projecting 24 receptions seems appropriate.Barber's career average on receptions is 7.0, but that is bumped by one season at 8.5, whereas the other two were both 6.4 YPR. So 6.5 is probably an accurate number to project for him, giving him 156 yards.A good projection then, based on team history, Barber's history, the way the back's have been used, and the direction the team is moving toward, and the personnel they have... is:255 carries, 1100 yards24 receptions, 156 yards13 TDs (more than his average and last season, but less than his peak)Totalling in non-PPR 203 FF pointsThat was good for RB 7 last year but RB 10 in 2006 and 2005.It's safe to say Barber will likely be a borderline top-10 RB again.
Switz, that is some fine posting guy. I think a lot of people, myself included could learn about crunching stats when you see the methodical approach to are taking.
 
In Wade's presser yesterday, here's what he had to say on the RB situation:

Marion Barber will have a bigger role like in the playoff game. He’s our 100-yard back we hope, he’s a good receiver and a good blocker, he could play every down. Felix we will utilize and Choice has a chance to play some, too. But we’re counting on Barber and see what Felix can add.

Q. (Monitor Barber to keep him fresh at the end of the game?)

A. He’s fresh all the time. One of the strongest stamina guys I’ve been around. We’ll monitor it but he won’t have any problem.

I was very surprised to read this. This so much as states that they're gonna use Barber as the lead dog, not RBBC. At least unless/until Felix and/or Choice proves they can be NFL quality RBs.

I'd bump him up to maybe 300 carries based on this statement from Wade.

In a revised estimate:

300/1400/12

25/175/2

 
In Wade's presser yesterday, here's what he had to say on the RB situation:

Marion Barber will have a bigger role like in the playoff game. He’s our 100-yard back we hope, he’s a good receiver and a good blocker, he could play every down. Felix we will utilize and Choice has a chance to play some, too. But we’re counting on Barber and see what Felix can add.

Q. (Monitor Barber to keep him fresh at the end of the game?)

A. He’s fresh all the time. One of the strongest stamina guys I’ve been around. We’ll monitor it but he won’t have any problem.

I was very surprised to read this. This so much as states that they're gonna use Barber as the lead dog, not RBBC. At least unless/until Felix and/or Choice proves they can be NFL quality RBs.

I'd bump him up to maybe 300 carries based on this statement from Wade.

In a revised estimate:

300/1400/12

25/175/2
I think this really will be the case. And, alot of people are expecting him to stay about where he's been, and so they let him go to owners that are trading like he'll get more. The fact you can even acquire him is great. I think he's honestly a buy low right now.
 
In Wade's presser yesterday, here's what he had to say on the RB situation:

I was very surprised to read this. This so much as states that they're gonna use Barber as the lead dog, not RBBC. At least unless/until Felix and/or Choice proves they can be NFL quality RBs.

I'd bump him up to maybe 300 carries based on this statement from Wade.

In a revised estimate:

300/1400/12

25/175/2
You're reading more into it than what was actually said. The question was whether Marion was going to come in later in the game, like how he was used when Julius was there. The answer is no, he would be the starter, like in the playoffs. Nothing was said that he would be the exclusive RB, or get 300 carries. In fact Phillips said "the could play Barber every down, but they won't because Felix has too much talent to not have him on the field." The coach merely verified that there WILL be ?RBBC, but that Barber would be the #1 component in it, not the #2 as he had been before.Press conference is here.

About 26 minutes in:

Question: Coach, the effect of Felix Jones? We all got used to Julius starting, and Marion came in in the second quarter and generally finished up the game. How is the rotation of that going to be in your mind?

Answer: Umm... well Marion Barber is going to take over a bigger role, like he did in the playoffs. He is our 100 yard back we hope, and I think he will be. Plus he's a really good receiver and blocker so, he's such a great all around player you could play him every down but I think Felix because of his talent, we are going to be able to utilize that.... and Choice has a chance to play some. So I feel good about our running back situation, but we're counting on Marion Barber, and see what Felix can add to it. And I think he'll be a real plus.

Question: Can you tell us a little about your thought process to make sure Marion is still fresh at the end of games...

Answer: Yeah, but he's pretty fresh all the time, he's one of the strongest stamina guys I've been around,. Yeah, we'll monitor that, but I don't think he'll have any problem finishing games, he gets stronger as the game goes on.
Translation: Barber gets Julius' old role, Felix gets Barber's old role for the most part. Choice now gets added into the mix.
 
If a coach on any team says I hope this our 100 yd back, I don't think they're anticipating their guy (MBIII) is going to get those 100 yds on less than 20 carries per game. Having said that, I predict that MBIII will see over 300 carries this year.

305/1350/12

30/200/2

In Wade's presser yesterday, here's what he had to say on the RB situation:

I was very surprised to read this. This so much as states that they're gonna use Barber as the lead dog, not RBBC. At least unless/until Felix and/or Choice proves they can be NFL quality RBs.

I'd bump him up to maybe 300 carries based on this statement from Wade.

In a revised estimate:

300/1400/12

25/175/2
You're reading more into it than what was actually said. The question was whether Marion was going to come in later in the game, like how he was used when Julius was there. The answer is no, he would be the starter, like in the playoffs. Nothing was said that he would be the exclusive RB, or get 300 carries. In fact Phillips said "the could play Barber every down, but they won't because Felix has too much talent to not have him on the field." The coach merely verified that there WILL be ?RBBC, but that Barber would be the #1 component in it, not the #2 as he had been before.Press conference is here.

About 26 minutes in:

Question: Coach, the effect of Felix Jones? We all got used to Julius starting, and Marion came in in the second quarter and generally finished up the game. How is the rotation of that going to be in your mind?

Answer: Umm... well Marion Barber is going to take over a bigger role, like he did in the playoffs. He is our 100 yard back we hope, and I think he will be. Plus he's a really good receiver and blocker so, he's such a great all around player you could play him every down but I think Felix because of his talent, we are going to be able to utilize that.... and Choice has a chance to play some. So I feel good about our running back situation, but we're counting on Marion Barber, and see what Felix can add to it. And I think he'll be a real plus.

Question: Can you tell us a little about your thought process to make sure Marion is still fresh at the end of games...

Answer: Yeah, but he's pretty fresh all the time, he's one of the strongest stamina guys I've been around,. Yeah, we'll monitor that, but I don't think he'll have any problem finishing games, he gets stronger as the game goes on.
Translation: Barber gets Julius' old role, Felix gets Barber's old role for the most part. Choice now gets added into the mix.
 
Barber is a talented back, but he runs too recklessly to make it through 300+ touches without getting injured. I see one of two things happening, both of which will hurt his value somewhat. One, Cowboys overuse him and he breaks down/gets hurt at some point, or two, he splits carries closer to 50/50 with FJones like he did with JJ last year. Either way, he is going to need to maintain his TD numbers from the last couple years to be a #1 FF RB.

190 carries, 890 yards, 9 TD's

33 rec, 210 yards, 1 TD

 
i see MBIII as a good shot at top 5 RB's in FF this yr. all you gotta look at is his production with limited carries. and he proved the "JJ wears down the defense first theory" to be bogus.

now he will get more touches. and with Dallas' offensive weapons they aint gonna stack the box. he'll have room to run, and he'll increase his TD's.

1350 rush, 250 receiving, with 16 total TDs.

 
Nice posts here, Switz; the first post is gold, and I encourage all to re-read it. As in years past I think you've provided some real solid analysis here. Great work.

U

 
So, as for carries, 250-260 is very realistic IMO. Can he sustain 4.8 YPC on that workload? Well, given that over the last 10 games of last season he DID receive that workload, it should give us a good indicator of what he'll do on 16-17 carries a game. And the answer is 4.26 YPC. So a realistic yards projection is 1,075-1,118 yards (giving him 4.3 YPC).
255 carries, 1100 yards24 receptions, 156 yards13 TDs (more than his average and last season, but less than his peak)It's safe to say Barber will likely be a borderline top-10 RB again.
Agreed, :goodposting: , but I do disagree on a few points. For one, using the data dominator it shows MBIII's ypc at 4.32 from games 7-17. Also, if you exclude the week 17 performance of 6 carries for -6 yards (Not that doing so is especially valid to do this, but it's a clear outlier that occured when they had aldready locked up their playoff spot and home field advantage) then the average over that period goes up to 4.56. Basically, I disagree with you that his ypc will drop quite so much. I'd expect it to hover around 4.5. In the post season he averaged 4.8 ypc on 27 carries against some very solid defenses - I doubt that his ypc will drop as much as you've projected.Also, I'd expect a few more carries than you've projected. The Dallas D, already very good last season, should be even better this year. Adam Jones, Zach Thomas, a full season from Tank Johnson, and Mike Jenkins... I think that their team total for carries could creep up a bit and that Felix Jones will cut into Barber's load less than you've suggested. Also, I think that Dallas will be leading often and that MBIII will be running the clock down - the kind of situation where he's pounding tired defenses, racking up some extra carries, and keeping his ypc pretty high. As for TD's, I think that they go up with more playing time. I'd put his floor at the 13 total TD's that Switz predicted, but I think Barber is the kind of player in the type of situation with a ceiling as high as 20+ total TD's. 280 carries, 1250 yards (about 4.45 ypc - a modest drop)35 receptions, 250 yards (slight drop as Felix Jones should have a good ammount of catches out of the backfield)16 total TD'sI think that Barber puts up the best numbers of his career this season, justifying or outplaying his high ADP for a top 7-3 finish amongst RB's.
 
He can run. He can catch. He plays in an incredible offense. What's not to like about Marion Barber? The Cowboys didn't give him 45 million (15 guaranteed) so he could be a part of some running back committee. If he can get enough touches in this offense I think the sky's the limit. Top-10, Top-5, Top-3. If everything broke right for him he could even be the #1 fantasy RB. He has that kind of upside.
:mellow: some of that might be too optimistic, but, with that Dallas O-line, who knows. Barber will have holes the size of cement trucks to run through, so anything is possible..280/1344/11 4.8 per carry 50/320/4 6.4er rec.easily top 10 RB numbers. The only thing you do have to worry about is injuries.With his punishing running style, the guy doesn't shy away from full contact...
 
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plastik said:
So, as for carries, 250-260 is very realistic IMO. Can he sustain 4.8 YPC on that workload? Well, given that over the last 10 games of last season he DID receive that workload, it should give us a good indicator of what he'll do on 16-17 carries a game. And the answer is 4.26 YPC. So a realistic yards projection is 1,075-1,118 yards (giving him 4.3 YPC).
255 carries, 1100 yards24 receptions, 156 yards13 TDs (more than his average and last season, but less than his peak)It's safe to say Barber will likely be a borderline top-10 RB again.
Agreed, :lmao: , but I do disagree on a few points. For one, using the data dominator it shows MBIII's ypc at 4.32 from games 7-17.
Correct me if I'm wrong:96+56+34+43+103+81+43+32+110-6=59219+16+12+15+ 18+17+ 7+ 7+ 22+6 = 139 (average 13.9 carries/game)592/139=4.258992805755 or 4.26Those are the stats for the last 10 games off NFL.com.
plastik said:
Also, if you exclude the week 17 performance of 6 carries for -6 yards (Not that doing so is especially valid to do this, but it's a clear outlier that occured when they had aldready locked up their playoff spot and home field advantage) then the average over that period goes up to 4.56.
So that game doesn't count? What about week 14, when he had a huge 6.1 YPC on 7 carries. Does that game not count because Detroit obviously sucks? I don't think you can eliminate games or carries.
plastik said:
Basically, I disagree with you that his ypc will drop quite so much. I'd expect it to hover around 4.5. In the post season he averaged 4.8 ypc on 27 carries against some very solid defenses - I doubt that his ypc will drop as much as you've projected.
Also in the post season he averaged 29 YPC after carry #16 versus the Giants. We can cherry pick all the stats you want to prove a point, but if you want an accurate picture you need to look at the whole thing.
plastik said:
Also, I'd expect a few more carries than you've projected.
Based on what? Not on any historical evidence...
plastik said:
I think that their team total for carries could creep up a bit and that Felix Jones will cut into Barber's load less than you've suggested.
For the second part of your argument, why?- Last season in college, Jones had 133 carries (in addition to KR and WR duties) in 12 games. So it's not like he's going to "wear down" because of the increased season length of the NFL.- Again, the secondary RB in DAL over the pat few years has seen a MINIMUM of 135 carries.- The coaches have come out and said that this will still be a RBBC.- As for the 100 yard back comment, only ONE of Barber's 3 100 yard games last season had 20+ carries. 15,18,22 got him 100 carries. I see no reason to think the 100 yard comment guaranteed Barber 20 carries/game.
plastik said:
Also, I think that Dallas will be leading often and that MBIII will be running the clock down - the kind of situation where he's pounding tired defenses, racking up some extra carries, and keeping his ypc pretty high.
The problem is that Barber carried late in the game because he didn't carry much early. That situation will be very different this season. And again look back at the playoffs. Dallas and NY were tied going into the second half, and Barber did squat, because he had already carried 16 times. I don't see any reason to think if he starts the game that he's going to be fresh to run the clock down. In fact, I believe that's where Choice is going to see his role this year.
plastik said:
As for TD's, I think that they go up with more playing time. I'd put his floor at the 13 total TD's that Switz predicted, but I think Barber is the kind of player in the type of situation with a ceiling as high as 20+ total TD's.
The problem with this is that you are assuming increased playing time = increased TD opportunities, when it really doesn't. Barber was already coming in for goal line work. It's not reasonable to think his opportunities will increase to score TDs. His only multi-TD games last season came on <15 carry games.
plastik said:
I think that Barber puts up the best numbers of his career this season, justifying or outplaying his high ADP for a top 7-3 finish amongst RB's.
His ADP is #6-8 RB... not sure how he can outplay that.
 
Just one more note on this whole Barber Spotlight...

Garrett has said he plans to use Barber and Jones the way that McAllister and Bush were used during Bush's rookie season.

If you look at those stats:

McAllister (Barber) 244 carries

Bush (Jones) 155 carries

Granted that is with McAllister missing one game due to injury. But it still wouldn't have made McAllister get anywhere near 300 carries if he played that extra game.

 
RBBC. Count me in for Switz's numbers.

You can claim teams don't spend Barber-type dough on a RBBC member, but teams ALSO don't spend mid-first round picks on guys they plan to sit - particularly at RB.

The only way some of those early projections make sense is if you feel that Felix Jones is a significantly worse RB than Julius Jones, which I don't buy AT ALL.

People have NO problem believing Mendenhall will take over for Willie Parker (a guy who ran for 1300 yards last year and 1500 the year before that) or at least seriously eat into his carries. Yet loads of people completely discount that possibility for a back that was drafted OVER Mendenhall, by team with a very consistent recent RBBC record, playing oppsoite a guy who has NEVER had a 1000 yard season and has ALWAYS been a RBBC memeber. Doesn't make any sense.

This will probably work some people up, but I wouldn't be THAT surprised if Felix Jones ended up with a slightly larger share of the pie by season's end.

 
This will probably work some people up, but I wouldn't be THAT surprised if Felix Jones ended up with a slightly larger share of the pie by season's end.
please
In Wade's presser yesterday, here's what he had to say on the RB situation:

Marion Barber will have a bigger role like in the playoff game. He’s our 100-yard back we hope, he’s a good receiver and a good blocker, he could play every down. Felix we will utilize and Choice has a chance to play some, too. But we’re counting on Barber and see what Felix can add.

Q. (Monitor Barber to keep him fresh at the end of the game?)

A. He’s fresh all the time. One of the strongest stamina guys I’ve been around. We’ll monitor it but he won’t have any problem.
 

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