Playoff formats to minimize luck/randomness (1 Viewer)

[Shutout]

My league is looking for some input on what some leagues out there may be using to try to minimize the randomness and luck of the playoffs. Yes, we completely aknowledge there is massive luck factor and things beyond our control in FF but it seems like year after year, the team that wins surprises everyone in our league (even the winner).

So, since we are thinking of trying to award the money payouts to the "most deserving", we were looking for suggestions and thought maybe some of you that play in bigger money leagues probably already have some good ideas.

We currently have a very typical system where the top 6 make it, with the top 2 seed getting byes and then matching up just like the NFL with the highest seed playing the lowest remaing seed each week.

Any suggestions that we may be able to use (or mix and match with several suggestions) would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Payout the top performing teams for the regular season (i.e., division winner(s), highest scoring, etc.).

The beauty about the playoffs is that any team has a chance to win in all - just like in real football. I know some leagues that try to weight the seeds based on points scored during the year to make it more difficult for the 8th seed to upset the 1st seed - i.e., points scored differential and give the higher seed points towards the game. In other words, if the 1st seed scored 1,300 points and the 8th seed scored 1,100 points, maybe the 1st seed gets 8 FF points out of the gate.

 

[Summer Wheat]

In my 14 team league 8 teams make the playoffs. We do not use matchups until the Superbowl. The first playoff week the top four scoring teams advance. That eliminates the 135-134 loss from the two highest scoring teams of the week.. while another team advances with a 68-66 win.

The second round is the same way. Top 2 scoring teams out of the four advance to the final game. Not perfect but it has been fun.

 

[RUSF18]

In my 14 team league 8 teams make the playoffs. We do not use matchups until the Superbowl. The first playoff week the top four scoring teams advance. That eliminates the 135-134 loss from the two highest scoring teams of the week.. while another team advances with a 68-66 win. The second round is the same way. Top 2 scoring teams out of the four advance to the final game. Not perfect but it has been fun.

This is pretty interesting. My 14 teamer has 6 playoff spots with the top 2 getting byes, think I'm going to consider this a bit more. Anyone else use this kind of system?

 

[Shutout]

Awesome ideas for thought guys..Keep it coming.

We actually DO use a payout for the top scoring team for the year and that part has worked really well so far.

 

[John 14:6]

One of my leagues gives "home field advantage" points to the higher seeds in the first two rounds of the playoffs, with the championship being on a "neutral" site.

An idea I've had but haven't brought it up in any leagues would be to allow players in the playoffs to use their average fantasy points instead of their actual points scored that week. That would keep the better team from getting knocked out due to one week of poor performances, unless their opponent has an exceptional week...

 

[theglorydays]

Pretty simple really. Do away with head to head and switch to total points. The best team wins every year.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Have a playoff, but have payouts designed to where the playoff winner isn't automatically the champion. Make it to where the playoffs are just another part of the winnings. The champion is the team that wins the most money. I've been playing in a league like that for five years and it is great. And this will be the first year I have won the league, and this despite losing in the semis of the playoffs. But the money I will win from having the best record (we play three teams a week, which cuts down the luck factor even further), the most total points (by far), and winning the toughest division. I think that is the best way to do it.

Having a points only league is the fairest way, but boring to play.

I sort of like having a league where you play everyone every week, but that isn't that much fun either.

 

[FantasyTrader]

Playoffs are a total points race. Each team that advances to the playoffs starts with his average points per week during the regular season. So regular season performance is still rewarded by the highest scoring team entering the playoffs with an advantage.

 

[Shutout]

Have a playoff, but have payouts designed to where the playoff winner isn't automatically the champion. Make it to where the playoffs are just another part of the winnings. The champion is the team that wins the most money. I've been playing in a league like that for five years and it is great. And this will be the first year I have won the league, and this despite losing in the semis of the playoffs. But the money I will win from having the best record (we play three teams a week, which cuts down the luck factor even further), the most total points (by far), and winning the toughest division. I think that is the best way to do it.Having a points only league is the fairest way, but boring to play. I sort of like having a league where you play everyone every week, but that isn't that much fun either.

Can you list how you determine a payout for the "toughest" divison and how that is determined? What are the criteria?we Do some double headers and stuff already so that might work.Total points seems to be getting some support here in the thread but what does that leave you playing for on a weekly basis (anyone?...I don't play in that type of league so I'm not sure how you keep it interesting each week).

 

[CletiusMaximus]

In my 14 team league 8 teams make the playoffs. We do not use matchups until the Superbowl. The first playoff week the top four scoring teams advance. That eliminates the 135-134 loss from the two highest scoring teams of the week.. while another team advances with a 68-66 win. The second round is the same way. Top 2 scoring teams out of the four advance to the final game. Not perfect but it has been fun.

I think this is a good way to do it. I've suggested this in our league, but been shot down now two years in a row.We also have 6 teams qualify, with 2 getting byes. One thing we put in a few years ago was a "call-out" system, rather than having slotted seedings as in the NFL. That way, the top team can determine his opponent regardless of seeding, based on match-ups, weather, injuries and the like.

 

[kylechoffman]

I have been thinking this subject over and am toying with going to a all teams total points over 3 weeks. So if its an 8 team race or 6 team race, total points from the 3 weeks decides the winners, losers etc. If you have one off week, you can still recover the next.

 

[Shutout]

I have been thinking this subject over and am toying with going to a all teams total points over 3 weeks. So if its an 8 team race or 6 team race, total points from the 3 weeks decides the winners, losers etc. If you have one off week, you can still recover the next.

That was one of our first "ideas" on this in our league. We haven't written it off but are hoping to find something a bit better because we prefer the idea of head to head as much as we can instead of a NASCAR "Race to the championship". It does seem to make a lot of sense but we kind of wonder if it loses its edge without a competitor to face.If anyone DOES do this already, can they comment on whether weeks 14 and 15 become ho hum and everyone just basically waits to see where they stadn going into the final week?Is there something lost if you are down (or up) by 50 after week 14, knowing that all that can be made up or lost over the next few weeks??Are teams progressively eliminated each week or is it the same 6 or 8 from start to finish?

 

[Summer Wheat]

In my 14 team league 8 teams make the playoffs. We do not use matchups until the Superbowl. The first playoff week the top four scoring teams advance. That eliminates the 135-134 loss from the two highest scoring teams of the week.. while another team advances with a 68-66 win. The second round is the same way. Top 2 scoring teams out of the four advance to the final game. Not perfect but it has been fun.

I think this is a good way to do it. I've suggested this in our league, but been shot down now two years in a row.We also have 6 teams qualify, with 2 getting byes. One thing we put in a few years ago was a "call-out" system, rather than having slotted seedings as in the NFL. That way, the top team can determine his opponent regardless of seeding, based on match-ups, weather, injuries and the like.

This is our 4th year doing it this way. The league has been together for 20 years. For the first 16 years usually a very good teams was ousted in a high scoring first round game while a mediocre team sneaked through winning a low scoring game in the first round. 3 of the 4 years the two best teams have made it to the end and that rarely happened before.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Have a playoff, but have payouts designed to where the playoff winner isn't automatically the champion. Make it to where the playoffs are just another part of the winnings. The champion is the team that wins the most money. I've been playing in a league like that for five years and it is great. And this will be the first year I have won the league, and this despite losing in the semis of the playoffs. But the money I will win from having the best record (we play three teams a week, which cuts down the luck factor even further), the most total points (by far), and winning the toughest division. I think that is the best way to do it.Having a points only league is the fairest way, but boring to play. I sort of like having a league where you play everyone every week, but that isn't that much fun either.

Can you list how you determine a payout for the "toughest" divison and how that is determined? What are the criteria?we Do some double headers and stuff already so that might work.Total points seems to be getting some support here in the thread but what does that leave you playing for on a weekly basis (anyone?...I don't play in that type of league so I'm not sure how you keep it interesting each week).

Toughest division is based on whichever division collectively scores the most points. Basically, it is a $200 a man league. Toughest division winner gets $100, with the second place team in that division gets $25. All division winners get $175. Best record gets $275. Transaction money ($5 a pickup) is heavily weighted towards total points. Everything up to $600 goes: 40% to 1st in total points, 30% to 2nd in total points, 20% to 3rd, 10% to 4th. Everything after $600 goes towards total points winner, best record, etc. The playoff champion gets $100, with the runner-up getting $25. Every other playoff wins gets $10. High score for every week gets $20. For the whole season (which last 16 weeks, even when the playoffs are going on), you get $5 for every win and lose $3 for every loss. For the most part, that is the gist of it. It is very fair, and the best team almost always wins the most money and is the champion, as opposed to some lesser team getting lucky and winning it all in the playoffs.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Add some 11s and 12s to the deck.

 

[Kevrunner]

Pretty simple really. Do away with head to head and switch to total points. The best team wins every year.

I don't agree that just because you scored the most points that you are the best team. For example: Team A scores 2000 points and Team B scores 1900. Team A record is 8-5 and Team B record is 10-3. Team A was very erratic, might have scored 200 points one week and 125 the next two weeks. Team B never scored under 140 all year and was way more consistent than Team A and that is why Team B had the better record and I think is the better team. I agree that the highest scoring team is probably one of the best teams in the league, that is why most leagues will pay the regular season points leader a payout.

 

[fantasyplayer]

In my 14 team league 8 teams make the playoffs. We do not use matchups until the Superbowl. The first playoff week the top four scoring teams advance. That eliminates the 135-134 loss from the two highest scoring teams of the week.. while another team advances with a 68-66 win. The second round is the same way. Top 2 scoring teams out of the four advance to the final game. Not perfect but it has been fun.

This is pretty interesting. My 14 teamer has 6 playoff spots with the top 2 getting byes, think I'm going to consider this a bit more. Anyone else use this kind of system?

My league does this (more or less). The top 5 teams make the playoffs, with the top 2 seeds getting byes. The other 3 post their lineups in playoff week 1, with the top two advancing. The remaining 4 teams do the same in playoff week 2, with the top 2 advancing. Obviously, it's head to head in the Super Bowl. As long as you're one of the top 2 scores in each playoff week (excluding the Super Bowl), you advance.We've done this for 3 years and everyone likes it.

 

[Novice2]

So, since we are thinking of trying to award the money payouts to the "most deserving",

Then play in a all play league and stop trying to make a H2H league more ''fair''.

 

[DangerMonkey]

If your league software keeps track of your all-play record, you could award playoff points based on number of all-play wins.

This would help teams who were consistently high scorers in your league to avoid the upset by a fluke week from a lower seed. Of course it's still possible, but much less likely.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I don't agree that just because you scored the most points that you are the best team. For example: Team A scores 2000 points and Team B scores 1900. Team A record is 8-5 and Team B record is 10-3. Team A was very erratic, might have scored 200 points one week and 125 the next two weeks. Team B never scored under 140 all year and was way more consistent than Team A and that is why Team B had the better record and I think is the better team.

I disagree. The goal of putting a team together is to get the players who will score you the most points. If all of them happen to go nuts in the same week, and then a bunch of them happen to have down weeks the same weeks, that is more randomness than anything else. Scoring the most points means you had the best team, IMO. For example, if two teams are 10-3 going into the last week of the regular season, are dead even in points after 13 weeks, and Team A loses 150-140, but Team B wins 100-90, are you going to tell me that Team B is the better team because they had the better record?

 

[Shutout]

If your league software keeps track of your all-play record, you could award playoff points based on number of all-play wins.This would help teams who were consistently high scorers in your league to avoid the upset by a fluke week from a lower seed. Of course it's still possible, but much less likely.

Yes, we could do that. Thanks for that suggestion. Can you give an example of how many playoff points would be awarded? Would it be as simple as 1 point for each all play victory?

 

[Kevrunner]

I don't agree that just because you scored the most points that you are the best team. For example: Team A scores 2000 points and Team B scores 1900. Team A record is 8-5 and Team B record is 10-3. Team A was very erratic, might have scored 200 points one week and 125 the next two weeks. Team B never scored under 140 all year and was way more consistent than Team A and that is why Team B had the better record and I think is the better team.

I disagree. The goal of putting a team together is to get the players who will score you the most points. If all of them happen to go nuts in the same week, and then a bunch of them happen to have down weeks the same weeks, that is more randomness than anything else. Scoring the most points means you had the best team, IMO. For example, if two teams are 10-3 going into the last week of the regular season, are dead even in points after 13 weeks, and Team A loses 150-140, but Team B wins 100-90, are you going to tell me that Team B is the better team because they had the better record?

I just can't agree on the blanket statement that the highest scoring team is also the best team. I will give you another example in a league that I am in. I beat the team with the highest amount of points in one of my leagues, 130 to 58 in our championship game. He had outscored me all year by almost 100 points up in the regular season. But his team was so erratic, he had 3 huge weeks and about 7 duds. Eventhough he outscored me by 100 points, if we had played head to head each week, my record against his team would have been 9-4, he would have only beaten me 4 times out of 13 weeks. There is no way I can say he had the better team. A team also includes your bench and his team had a very weak bench. But, I am probably in a minority regarding my opinion on this.

 

[TheWalkmen]

Playoffs? We've integrated a punt, pass, and kick competition into our matchups. Winner of this skill competition (each fantasy owner faces their fantasy opponent) gets 7.5 pts towards their fantasy matchup. Sounds silly & off the wall, but it's awesome.

 

[Jayroo88]

The best way to minimize randomness in FF is to do an all-play league and have no playoffs, just all regular season. This assures the best team that would have won most weeks gets the most money. Playoffs are simply too random no matter how you do them. My team that was forced to start Jahvid Best, Mike Thomas, Zach Miller and Kitna/McGee (along with a one catch Fitz) won this week vs. a team of all studs with no injuries. This just shows it is really just too random to include playoffs in your league if you want that best team to win the league. The only way I could see making playoffs more fair is to give advantages to the higher seeds. As suggested earlier a 90 win all play team could have a 20 point advantage on a 70 win all play team. Regardless, any team can have a down week and lose in the playoffs even if its the most deserving to win.

 

[PMENFAN]

Total points to me is like the NCAA championship. Yes, you had the best overall season, but maybe weren't the best team at the end.

In one league we just give points. If you're the high scorer for the week, you get 12, on down to 1 for last. Hay, if I designed it would have been 11 down to zero, but it's the same concept. After week 13, the top 6 oint totals make it to the championships. The top team gets 6, down to 1 for the last qualifier. These points are added to your points (6-1) gained starting the playoffs. In week 14, the bottom 2 are eliminated. Your point totals carry forward adding the points in wk 15 (4-1) to your playoff total. Two more drop out and the final week is 4 points added on. It's not perfect, but it creates a path for a team to get hot and win the championship. Their road is tougher than the guys starting w/ 6 points.

It also leaves a de facto head to head championship game.

 

[Soaring Eagle]

We payout total points/weekly high score/all play record and division winners a well

6 teams make playoffs

In the first round the 3/4 seeds get extra pts for home field advantage

During the next playoff week if the top 1/2 seeds do not score higher than their season average then they take their score from that week and average it with their season average for their week 15 score

 

[PMENFAN]

Total points to me is like the NCAA championship. Yes, you had the best overall season, but maybe weren't the best team at the end. In one league we just give points. If you're the high scorer for the week, you get 12, on down to 1 for last. Hay, if I designed it would have been 11 down to zero, but it's the same concept. After week 13, the top 6 oint totals make it to the championships. The top team gets 6, down to 1 for the last qualifier. These points are added to your points (6-1) gained starting the playoffs. In week 14, the bottom 2 are eliminated. Your point totals carry forward adding the points in wk 15 (4-1) to your playoff total. Two more drop out and the final week is 4 points added on. It's not perfect, but it creates a path for a team to get hot and win the championship. Their road is tougher than the guys starting w/ 6 points. It also leaves a de facto head to head championship game.

Oh yeah. WE also have a $34 fee for weekly payouts. Highest point total each week get $24.

 

[PMENFAN]

I don't agree that just because you scored the most points that you are the best team. For example: Team A scores 2000 points and Team B scores 1900. Team A record is 8-5 and Team B record is 10-3. Team A was very erratic, might have scored 200 points one week and 125 the next two weeks. Team B never scored under 140 all year and was way more consistent than Team A and that is why Team B had the better record and I think is the better team.

I disagree. The goal of putting a team together is to get the players who will score you the most points. If all of them happen to go nuts in the same week, and then a bunch of them happen to have down weeks the same weeks, that is more randomness than anything else. Scoring the most points means you had the best team, IMO. For example, if two teams are 10-3 going into the last week of the regular season, are dead even in points after 13 weeks, and Team A loses 150-140, but Team B wins 100-90, are you going to tell me that Team B is the better team because they had the better record?

I just can't agree on the blanket statement that the highest scoring team is also the best team. I will give you another example in a league that I am in. I beat the team with the highest amount of points in one of my leagues, 130 to 58 in our championship game. He had outscored me all year by almost 100 points up in the regular season. But his team was so erratic, he had 3 huge weeks and about 7 duds. Eventhough he outscored me by 100 points, if we had played head to head each week, my record against his team would have been 9-4, he would have only beaten me 4 times out of 13 weeks. There is no way I can say he had the better team. A team also includes your bench and his team had a very weak bench. But, I am probably in a minority regarding my opinion on this.

Exactly why total points means nothing about the best team. It's the team that scored the most points. Nothing more.

 

[rpstones]

Exactly why total points means nothing about the best team. It's the team that scored the most points. Nothing more.

Totally agree with you and Kevrunner on this issue about total points leader, but I like leagues that reward the regular season points leader with $$$$.

 

[John 14:6]

I don't really understand the point of a points-only league. If you're going to take the time to have a league, why not have a schedule and play games and have playoffs, and then also award the point leader(s) at the end of the season?

 

[DangerMonkey]

If your league software keeps track of your all-play record, you could award playoff points based on number of all-play wins.This would help teams who were consistently high scorers in your league to avoid the upset by a fluke week from a lower seed. Of course it's still possible, but much less likely.

Yes, we could do that. Thanks for that suggestion. Can you give an example of how many playoff points would be awarded? Would it be as simple as 1 point for each all play victory?

That would depend on some things, like the avg scores of your games and the number of teams in your league.I would think that anywhere from .25 to 1 points per win would make sense depending on those factors. Large leagues with lower avg scores may lean toward the .25 where smaller, higher scoring leagues may go with 1 pt/win

 

[shader]

My league is looking for some input on what some leagues out there may be using to try to minimize the randomness and luck of the playoffs. Yes, we completely aknowledge there is massive luck factor and things beyond our control in FF but it seems like year after year, the team that wins surprises everyone in our league (even the winner).So, since we are thinking of trying to award the money payouts to the "most deserving", we were looking for suggestions and thought maybe some of you that play in bigger money leagues probably already have some good ideas.We currently have a very typical system where the top 6 make it, with the top 2 seed getting byes and then matching up just like the NFL with the highest seed playing the lowest remaing seed each week.Any suggestions that we may be able to use (or mix and match with several suggestions) would be greatly appreciated.

We have a 2 week combined score super bowl. Works great for us

 

[PR Sparty]

For years we've gone with two week head to head match-ups. Total score of the two weeks advances. 9 out of 10 times the better team wins.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Our league is a 10 team league. Top 5 teams go into the playoffs. Rather than go head-to-head, each team starts with their season avg points per game and then adds weeks 15 and 16 to that for a total score. Highest score wins.

This way, the regular season has meaning and one bad week in the playoffs won't doom you.

 

[maxwjom0]

10 team league with two 5 team divisions. Top 3 from each division make the playoffs.

#1 seeds get a bye. #2 seeds get a 5.5 point advantage over #3. Then #1 seed gets a 5.5 point advantage vs. #2/3 winner.

Its not perfect but it does reward the regular season. This year the two #1 seeds met in the Super Bowl.

 

[NumbCruncher]

4 teams make the playoffs. Playoffs last 3 weeks. Top 2 seeds play each other 1st Round with the winner advancing to the Championship Game. The loser plays the winner of battle of the 3 & 4 seeds in the 2nd round. In essence, the top 2 seeds has 2 chances to advance to the title game, while the other seeds have to win both games.

If 5th seeds or lower are not worthy of winning the Championship, they should not be in the playoffs.

 

[DropKick]

Two six team divisions, with three teams from each division making the play-offs. The first place team gets a bye - a fair reward for being #1. We also use a 3 point "home field advantage". In the play-offs, the HFA increases to 3 points per win differential. This is typically 3-6 points but I have seen 15 points. In our scoring, this is a surmountable deficit but it does give a leg up to teams with very good regular seasons.

 

[Tornacl]

One thing we put in a few years ago was a "call-out" system, rather than having slotted seedings as in the NFL. That way, the top team can determine his opponent regardless of seeding, based on match-ups, weather, injuries and the like.

I made this suggestion in one of my leagues and was shot down pretty hard. I thought that it was a good "home field advantage" awarded to the top seeded team, to allow them to choose their opponent in the second round (only choosing between two teams). I'd be curious to hear how this has worked.

 

[GridironMenace]

Victory Points. I'm actually shocked that more leagues don't use this yet.

http://www.antsports.com/info/h2hvp.asp

The idea behind the H2H Victory Point Leagues is simple :

* Total Point Leagues are not fun. After about half the season, most teams don't have a chance and are no longer interested.

* Head-to-Head matchups are exciting, but sometimes are unfair. Each year, I see several leagues where a team with very high total points is struggling to make the playoffs. You would think that a team with high total points should be a lock for the playoffs, but it's not always true. Looking at the Head-to-Head matchups, for teams like this, you can see the problem. The high scoring team lost 2 (or more) games during the regular season when they scored the second highest points. That's the "luck" factor I'm trying to reduce with my new league style.

Here's how I have fixed these problems :

* The League standings are kept with league points instead of wins and losses.

* Each week you play head-to-head like normal leagues. A win awards your team with 2 League Points, A Tie 1 point, and a loss no points. Very similar to how Hockey does it's season standing.

* Each week, the teams are ordered by total fantasy points scored during that week. League points are also awarded for having high scores.

10-team league Victory Point assignment :

High Score - 2 League Points

2nd - 2 League Points

3rd - 2 League Points

4th - 1 League Point

5th - 1 League Point

6th - 1 League Point

7th - 1 League Point

8th - 0 League Points

9th - 0 League Points

10th - 0 League Points

12-team league Victory Point assignment :

High Score - 2 League Points

2nd - 2 League Points

3rd - 2 League Points

4th - 2 League Points

5th - 1 League Point

6th - 1 League Point

7th - 1 League Point

8th - 1 League Point

9th - 0 League Points

10th - 0 League Points

11th - 0 League Points

12th - 0 League Points

If you get the second highest score and lose, you still get 2 league points.

Now, you can still trash talk and take on your archrival in Head-to-Head play. If you win, great. If you lose and scored high, you still get points. That nice high score is no longer wasted. It counts!

I believe that this Head-to-Head Victory Point League combined with AntSports scoring system provides the most balanced, competitive, and FAIR leagues available anywhere on the Internet.

 

[knickstorm]

my league does weekly high scores

but even better and simple solution, division winners, or if you dont have one, perhaps top 2 seeds get their entry fee back.........that's way no complaints when a fluke week costs you a win and you have nothing to show for an otherwise stellar season.