Total points has been the way it's been done in our league for a while and I was wondering people's takes on fantasy playoffs. I have been in leagues where it's the basic 4 teams make it for 2 head-to-head games but it's so anticlimactic, everyone knew that one week was kind of a goofy way to crown your champion. Do you like it all riding on one week when who knows if you are missing a good player or not and not having the rest of the year count?
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Playoff Setup? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter hines
- Start date
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I have reached the point where I don't like playoffs that much, especially in leagues where too many teams make the playoffs. You can dominate all season and then get knocked off by a .500 team in the playoffs, and that ain't right. I like playing in leagues where you play multiple teams a week (playing three games a week is great), and where equal money is given to the top teams in the standings and total points. Whatever teams wins the most money is the champion. Some would call it anti-climatic, but it is the most fair way.
Last edited by a moderator:
RUSF18
Footballguy
I find it strange that you think two H2H matchup weeks is "anticlimactic" but total points isn't.
Shutout
Footballguy
Agree completely. In the past few years in my main dyansty leagues, we have had teams that have career seasons, only to get bumped early due to one sub-par game or one career game by some random player or due to players being sat down (in one league a few years ago we ahd an undefeated team lose the title game when the Colts sat their players (he had Manning and Clark).So, yeah, its not a true indicator of which teams were good/bad, and its a total crapshoot and that DOES make it very anti-climatic when the league becomes like Willy Wonka where all the teams are just trying to get their hands on one of the golden tickets and then its anybody's game, depending on all kinds of crazy factors that were not indicitive of the entire season up to that point.
In my leagues, we have awarded money for best regular seasons in additon to lower payouts for the league winners. We are just now starting to do some weeks where teams play everyone instead of H2H, and we are trying some things to reward the higher seeds (recognizing their accomplishments during the regular season). All these things, IMO, are better than puttign 4 or 6 teams in and then playing heads up, bye weeks, etc.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
10 team league. 2 divisions..6 teams make playoffs..top team from each division gets a first round bye ..
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
10 team league (two divisions of 5), $100 entry fee. Top team in each division gets a first round bye; second place team in each division are the 3 & 4 seeds and they play against six wild card teams in the first round (week 13). The first four teams eliminated all get their entry fee back. Next round (week 14) is doubleheaders, four more teams are eliminated and each receive 16.7% of the remaining prize pool. The final two teams compete H2H for two weeks (15 and 16), higher cumulative score wins. Of the remaining prize money, the champion gets $100 less than 2x the runner up. We've found this to be the fairest way.
The Jerk
Footballguy
There are countless ways to run successful, enjoyable leagues. However, I agree with the general idea that one week playoffs are not the ideal way to crown a champion.
My preferred league format has three concurrent competitions.
1. Traditional head-to-head, 13 regular season weeks, 6 playoff teams in a playoff format exactly like the AFC or NFC. So Week 14 is seed 6 vs. seed 3 and seed 5 vs. seed 4. Winners play seeds 1 and 2 in Week 15. Championship in Week 16.
One twist we add is that the team with the higher seed gets a 4.5 point home field advantage. Sure, not for everyone, but it's a way of making the regular season more valuable, and it only affects roughly one matchup every two seasons.
2. Total points, weeks 1 thru 17 combined.
3. Weekly top finisher(s), which helps a team that is strong all year to be rewarded for multiple weeks of dominance, while simultaneously giving incentives to teams who start strong to stay involved and keep working on their team instead of being absentee owners for the final weeks of the season.
Without the head-to-head, I would miss the rivalry aspect of FF, the similarity to the real NFL, and the drama and finality of championship weekend.
Without total points, season-long dominance is not sufficiently rewarded. Total points remains the best indicator of total team strength over the entire season and is the best way to mitigate against the luck that can and does arise often in any given week.
I prefer to award the same prize to champions of both head-to-head and total points. Throwing in significant weekly prizes makes every week meaningful and gives incentive to teams who start slow to not tank the season. As an earlier poster commented, if you must seek one clear champion, just use total prize winnings. It's not dramatic, but it still works.
My preferred league format has three concurrent competitions.
1. Traditional head-to-head, 13 regular season weeks, 6 playoff teams in a playoff format exactly like the AFC or NFC. So Week 14 is seed 6 vs. seed 3 and seed 5 vs. seed 4. Winners play seeds 1 and 2 in Week 15. Championship in Week 16.
One twist we add is that the team with the higher seed gets a 4.5 point home field advantage. Sure, not for everyone, but it's a way of making the regular season more valuable, and it only affects roughly one matchup every two seasons.
2. Total points, weeks 1 thru 17 combined.
3. Weekly top finisher(s), which helps a team that is strong all year to be rewarded for multiple weeks of dominance, while simultaneously giving incentives to teams who start strong to stay involved and keep working on their team instead of being absentee owners for the final weeks of the season.
Without the head-to-head, I would miss the rivalry aspect of FF, the similarity to the real NFL, and the drama and finality of championship weekend.
Without total points, season-long dominance is not sufficiently rewarded. Total points remains the best indicator of total team strength over the entire season and is the best way to mitigate against the luck that can and does arise often in any given week.
I prefer to award the same prize to champions of both head-to-head and total points. Throwing in significant weekly prizes makes every week meaningful and gives incentive to teams who start slow to not tank the season. As an earlier poster commented, if you must seek one clear champion, just use total prize winnings. It's not dramatic, but it still works.
belljr
Footballguy
If you are in head to head why change the playoffs. I understand wanting variety but I also looked to make it "real". Any given week in the NFL almost any team could win, so if you put up that stinker in the playoffs so be it.
We put in place awards for best records, points and winning divisions to "make up" for a possible early exit. If you are a top seed you are guaranteed your entry fee back.
I like the weekly head to head but am also in a all-play league.
Neither are "wrong" but if I'm in h2h I like keeping it that way
We put in place awards for best records, points and winning divisions to "make up" for a possible early exit. If you are a top seed you are guaranteed your entry fee back.
I like the weekly head to head but am also in a all-play league.
Neither are "wrong" but if I'm in h2h I like keeping it that way
Last edited by a moderator:
The Jerk
Footballguy
A great point. While I advocate for multiple formats, within the head-to-head aspect, it makes very little sense to allow one-off games all season to determine the playoff entries, only to have a different format in the actual playoffs. As belljr says, that's the nature of playoffs. Sometimes it helps you, other times it hurts you. In 1997 I won with a mediocre team against a superior opponent thanks to two defensive scores in the second half of MNF.In 2005 I lost with a dominant team against an inferior opponent thanks to Seattle seeking to get Shaun Alexander the season TD record.So once it helped and once it hurt me. The cool thing: both games happened against the same opponent. Over time, it usually evens out.
Last edited by a moderator:
Shutout
Footballguy
all the way around. I have been the great team that won, the great team that stumbled, the good team that narrowly missed it, the "meh" team that won it. I guess it evens out over time and I used to suggest that it was this randomness (winning and losing with good AND bad teams) that was bad...that made it so..."random". But then after last year in the NFL playoffs when Seattle upended New Orleans, a year after the saints won the Super Bowl and in a year where the Seahawks were being called unworthy by some to even be eligible for the playoffs, I startet to think "Maybe this IS the most realistic". You never know on any give Sunday.
Last edited by a moderator:
RUSF18
Footballguy
In the last four years of my main league, 14 team H2H, I've been 1st in points three times and 2nd in points once (won the title that year). This year I'm in 2nd place thanks to two of my three losses coming to the high point getter for the week when I put up 2nd highest, and I'm leading my division with a huge point lead on the rest of the field. While I'm the favorite for the title, there's a great chance I don't win.
And I'm fine with that. Everyone needs to realize that so much of this could be random luck, and once you do, you'll enjoy it that much more. Obviously there are high stakes leagues where people are playing for substantial pots, and in those cases, I can see wanting a more "true" way of determining the best team. But I play FF because I enjoy it, and if I win a few bucks at the end of the season, great. For me, I get much more enjoyment out of doing well during the regular season and hearing my leaguemates ##### and moan, wondering how the hell I have such a good team every year.
And I'm fine with that. Everyone needs to realize that so much of this could be random luck, and once you do, you'll enjoy it that much more. Obviously there are high stakes leagues where people are playing for substantial pots, and in those cases, I can see wanting a more "true" way of determining the best team. But I play FF because I enjoy it, and if I win a few bucks at the end of the season, great. For me, I get much more enjoyment out of doing well during the regular season and hearing my leaguemates ##### and moan, wondering how the hell I have such a good team every year.
yak651
Footballguy
1 and done keeps it interesting, if you have a team hurt by injuries or just not dominating, you know you still have a shot if your players come up big. We have a team we call the "paper champs", every year he seems to start out well but just can't get it done down the stretch. It's great giving him a hard time every year when his super team comes up short. I suppose NO could've said the same thing in the real playoffs last year...
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I hate when people say, "Well, the NFL is one game and you're out, so FF should be as well." Yeah, I am pretty sure you don't have the best teams sitting down their best players (or having them sat down for you) in the postseason, and FF is completely different from real football, so let's get real.
The Jerk
Footballguy
Your stance is logical and well stated, but the opposing stance can be as well.To me at least, structuring a fantasy football league playoff structure as closely as possible to the NFL model is reasonable. So are other approaches. Smart, thoughtful people can believe differently over the approaches used in fantasy leagues.There is no one definitive answer to the question concerning how to setup fantasy playoffs. Some leagues don't have playoffs at all. Purely total points leagues exist, as do all-play leagues which look at total season-long cumulative victories. The trick is balancing the "charms" of these different approaches in a way that makes sense to a given group of fantasy owners.You may prefer a 2 or 3 week sum total to determine a champion. Someone else, like belljr earlier, may argue it doesn't make sense to make the playoffs use significantly different rules than the regular season. (But hey, look at the NFL with OT now. It's different in the playoffs.) Meanwhile, a third person might not care that the format is different but doesn't like the way that spreading out the playoff diminishes from the excitement of championship weekend (in the singular form).You may not like when people make the statement you quoted above, but it is not as unreasonable as you suggest. There are countless ways that FF differs from real football, not just the concept that real players aren't rested at the crucial moments of playoff games. Two very significant ways that FF differs from real football is that the true worth of players in real football terms rarely is captured by statistics that score points in fantasy football, and that the players on a fantasy football "team" don't know what the score is. And that's just the tip of a very large iceberg.
Last edited by a moderator:
Shutout
Footballguy
In a fantasy game??? LOLSeriously, I DO agree on the point of, in fantasy, you can crush and cruise all season, avoid the injury bug, get lucky a time or two, show off your obvious superior intellect, and then NOTHING can save you once the real NFL decides to sit Aaron rodgers and Greg Jennings during your playoff weeks; regardless if you are playing H2H or round robin/playy alls, whatever. That is the one reason that I generally like anything that helps reward the course of the season good performers or spread it out from one and done.But at the end of the season, its such a random game that I often wonder how people that like numbers and trends and stats, etc, can ever really TRULY enjoy this sport when they are playing FF.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Agreed. I play in multiple, none of which determine the champ in the same way. I just prefer the whole season actually mattering.
My main league seems to have lower seeds win the super bowl way to often so Im going to propose a twist for the playoffs for next year. Since we have 8 teams that make the playoffs it really is a crapshoot ( but the majority like it so we will keep it at 8)
The twist I would like to add is that the highest seed gets to pick his playoff opponent, and the next highest left his opponent... until all 8 are matched up. Same thing for the next round.
If you choose wisely this will give the top seeds a serious advantage.
Anybody ever done this? Any thoughts pro or con?
The twist I would like to add is that the highest seed gets to pick his playoff opponent, and the next highest left his opponent... until all 8 are matched up. Same thing for the next round.
If you choose wisely this will give the top seeds a serious advantage.
Anybody ever done this? Any thoughts pro or con?
MrJimiT
Footballguy
So would the higher seeded teams get a certain number of days to watch for injuries and player developments to help in their decision making of an opponent? Seems like an interesting spin on "home-field advantage". The higher seeded team (if given the time to research) could check out opponents based on matchups and injuries as opposed to playing the lowest seeds.
My home 12 man league uses weeks 1-11 as the regular season with 2 division winners plus 4 other teams with points making the playoffs. All playoff teams are seeded most points to least with the #1 and #2 getting a bye. The playoffs are head to head for 2 weeks. weeks 12,13 then weeks 14,15 and the championship game is week 16. Usually gets the best teams in or the best team playing well down the stretch. We also keep overall points for a percentage of the pot through week 16. I like this format H2H leagues should try it. It usually takes the one week wonder teams out of play and makes them earn it.
kardplayer
Footballguy
My league plays a full 17 week regular season. 2/3 of the money goes to regular season performance. H2H and points title both get the same $$$. Division winners get half that amount (obviously H2H is one of those). If you win the points title and H2H title, you are the $ champion for sure. There are also weekly prizes, but they are smaller relative to overall.
Then 8 of the 12 teams make the playoffs - which start in week 2 of the NFL playoffs. You get to keep 3. Division champs can keep 3 on offense. Others can keep 2 offense and 1 defense. We redraft 1-8, 1-8, 1-8, etc. (although we are thinking of switching to 1-8 then 1-8,8-1,1-8,8-1, etc.)
Rewards regular season performance fairly well, and unless you have a lower seeded team with stud playoff players, the draft process makes it hard to overcome your seed. (Unless of course you're the 8th place team with Rodgers, Arian Foster, and Bishop)
Then 8 of the 12 teams make the playoffs - which start in week 2 of the NFL playoffs. You get to keep 3. Division champs can keep 3 on offense. Others can keep 2 offense and 1 defense. We redraft 1-8, 1-8, 1-8, etc. (although we are thinking of switching to 1-8 then 1-8,8-1,1-8,8-1, etc.)
Rewards regular season performance fairly well, and unless you have a lower seeded team with stud playoff players, the draft process makes it hard to overcome your seed. (Unless of course you're the 8th place team with Rodgers, Arian Foster, and Bishop)
Sir Chadwick
Footballguy
In 5 years of FF in my work $$$ league... the #1 and #2 team has NEVER won the trophy.
That should tell you something.
However, regular season 1st and 2nd get paid part of the pot. The big payout is to the champ though.
That should tell you something.
However, regular season 1st and 2nd get paid part of the pot. The big payout is to the champ though.
Last edited by a moderator:
belljr
Footballguy
one example over 5 years doesn't mean it happens to every league?My one league history from the years I can get online - I have a bunch of years in an old excel document somewhere but here are the last 102001 (10 teams) - Seed #1 vs #2 in the final - #1 won2002 (10) - #1 vs #2 - #1 won2003 (10) - #2 vs #3 - #2 won2004 (10) - #3 vs #2 - #2 won2005 (12) - #1 vs #2 - #1 won2006 (12) - #1 vs #4 - #4 won2007 (12) - #1 vs #4 - #4 won2008 (12) - #1 vs #5 - #5 won2009 (12) - #1 vs #2 - #1 won2010 (12) - #1 vs #4 - #1 wonMy league the last 10 years the top 2 teams are winning 70% of the time. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS MEANS 
Maybe league size, roster size, scoring format etc make a difference
Last edited by a moderator:
yes there would definitely be a deadline... some time after waivers are run. Top team would get first choice...second team makes 2 choices (in case their first choice is taken) and so forth... would run like a manual first to worst waiver wire...only teams are chosen instead of players. And yes... depending on matchups and injuries seed 1 may choose seed 3 or 4 .... that would be their perogative..
Last edited by a moderator:
same here... ot never but seldom...ad over a much longer period. Thats why I am going to try to get them to go for a highest seed gets their pick of opponent set up. Part of the frustration is that 8/12 of our teams make the playoffs ( which isnt likely to change) Would be much easier to take if seed 4 of the 4 playoff teams won the championship... so that is why I like my twist...to give even more of an advantage to the top teams
ourmanflint
Footballguy
What does it tell you? That fantasy football reflects the game it is built on?How often does the NFL's best regular season team win the Super Bowl?
Hint: The last time it happened was the 2003-2004 season.
So you won the regular season. What do you want for that?
Maybe you can give every team a trophy just for playing, like they do 6-year olds.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
We do All-play all season long. Then 6 of the 10 teams make the playoffs with top 2 getting Week 14 bye. The other four do All-Play...best two move forward. Then rinse and repeat for Weeks 15 and 16. I like the format.
Different format we've used for years. 4 week playoffs.
Wk. 13- 6 teams make Playoffs
Bye Bowl- 1 v 2, winner advances to Wk. 15, loser to Wk. 14, 1 gets 6 bonus pts
4-way Wildcard game, 3 v 4 v 5 v 6, top 2 scores advance to Wk. 14, 3 gets 18 bonus pts, 4 12 bonus pts, 5 6 bonus pts
Wk. 14- 4 teams remain
Bye Bowl winner has off
3-way game between Bye Bow loser and 2 Wildcard winners. Top 2 scores advance. Bye Bowl loser gets 6 bonus pts over other 2 teams.
Wk. 15- 3 teams left
3-way game between Bye Bow winner and 2 Wk. 14 winners. Top 2 scores advance. No more bonus pts.
Wk. 16
Super Bowl
Wk. 13- 6 teams make Playoffs
Bye Bowl- 1 v 2, winner advances to Wk. 15, loser to Wk. 14, 1 gets 6 bonus pts
4-way Wildcard game, 3 v 4 v 5 v 6, top 2 scores advance to Wk. 14, 3 gets 18 bonus pts, 4 12 bonus pts, 5 6 bonus pts
Wk. 14- 4 teams remain
Bye Bowl winner has off
3-way game between Bye Bow loser and 2 Wildcard winners. Top 2 scores advance. Bye Bowl loser gets 6 bonus pts over other 2 teams.
Wk. 15- 3 teams left
3-way game between Bye Bow winner and 2 Wk. 14 winners. Top 2 scores advance. No more bonus pts.
Wk. 16
Super Bowl
Topes
Footballguy
Totally.Love it.Let it ride.Fairness is completely overrated in fantasy football. Just a bunch of late season whining.The logical end of anti-playoff sentiment is an end to H2H altogether and points leagues.Boring.
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
My favorite league (and unanimously the favorite of all ten owners) is a 21 week all-points dynasty league. Whoever said it's anti-climactic, it's no less so than H2H. You can be 1-5 and buried just as deep in H2H midway through the season as you can in total points. Plus, I love the fact that it's played all the way through the Super Bowl. At the end of the season there is NO disputing that the best team won.
belljr
Footballguy
I always wondered about leagues like this.We have a "separate" league for playoffs. Basically we redraft and you just get points every week for your team. No drops or pickups basically draft a roster and accumulate as much points as possible.How do incoporate your fantasy teams into NFL playoffs. I mean a team could end up with good players not in the actual playoffs.TIA.
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
Exactly. That's part of the strategy. If a player's team doesn't make the playoffs, then he's done for your team as well. We all usually field incomplete teams weeks 18-21 with only the players actually remaining in the playoffs. So there's a premium on fantasy studs who also happen to play on great NFL teams and will score for you deeper into the playoffs. A team can make up or lose serious ground based on this fact alone weeks 18-21.
Make it a redraft league and expand to 16 teams. then you'd have ANARCHY on your hands.
Last edited by a moderator:
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
4 teams makes sense though. 4 out of 12 is roughly the same percentage of teams that make the playoffs in the NFL. Our playoff structure sucks and I can't convince the commish otherwise.We have 8 teams make the playoffs (out of 12), and the top seeds do not get a bye week at all.Every year the #8 seed has some crappy record like 5-8, yet when weeks 14-16 roll around it's like we press a big reset button and give nearly everyone in the league an equal chance to win the title.It makes the regular season practically meaningless. We've played 13 weeks of matchups just to eliminate 4 teams?!Everyone knows there is a fair amount of luck involved in FF (both good luck and bad luck), and any team has a chance to win any given matchup. But this playoff structure thrives completely on luck and it doesn't give any advantage to the teams that have put up winning records for the first 13 weeks.Last year a 5-8 team (in the #8 seed) beat the #1 seed (12-1) the first week and then went on to win the championship. Neither team was mine, so I'm not making this rant personal. But I still think it is a very flawed system.
butcher boy
Footballguy
H2H playoff systems in general are terrible at deciding a "champ". We put up with them mostly because of the archaic belief that fantasy leagues have to mimic the NFL, which makes no sense because they are totally different things.
If I ever run a league we'll keep H2H, but just for fun and side betting. The actual champ and money winners will be based entirely on the only aspect a fantasy team owner can control: how many points your team scores.
If I ever run a league we'll keep H2H, but just for fun and side betting. The actual champ and money winners will be based entirely on the only aspect a fantasy team owner can control: how many points your team scores.
rangerforme
Footballguy
We do %50 money goes to total pts for year, and %50 percent goes to the H2H playoffs, that way the best overall team gets rewarded if they have a bad week in playoffs. We've talked about getting rid of the H2H but its to fun to smack talk and bite yours nails in the final minutes of the monday night game. This year the pts champion was pretty much crowned by like week 13 so if we did all pts it would have been lame.
XFLcommish
Footballguy
I've had this idea bouncing around my head:
12 teams. 12 week regular season. Two division winners and two wild cards.
Playoffs - 5 week double-elimination tournament. You'll only need to play week 17 if the team out of the winner's bracket loses in week 16. Team in the winner's bracket wouldn't have to play week 15.
What do you guys think?
Concerns I have thought of so far:
Regular season long enough to determine best 4 teams?
Do you really want to rely on week 17 to determine the champion?
Eliminating 2/3 of the league after only 12 weeks seems a little harsh...
12 teams. 12 week regular season. Two division winners and two wild cards.
Playoffs - 5 week double-elimination tournament. You'll only need to play week 17 if the team out of the winner's bracket loses in week 16. Team in the winner's bracket wouldn't have to play week 15.
What do you guys think?
Concerns I have thought of so far:
Regular season long enough to determine best 4 teams?
Do you really want to rely on week 17 to determine the champion?
Eliminating 2/3 of the league after only 12 weeks seems a little harsh...
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree that there is just to many factors to decide who or what the best team is and who deserves to win the championship. Example one league I am in this year I have scored the most points throughout the season, actually our league is divided into 3 divisions and all 3 division winners were the top 3 points scorers throughout the season.I although the top point scorer went into the playoffs as the number three seed due to regular season win/loss ratio, I lost the last game of the regular season in a head to head matchup by .45 of a point to the team that ended up with the number two seed. So as top point scorer should I have deserved a higher seeding? I think just like the real game those wins and losses mean a lot more than the points a team scores and losing a tight game cost me a seeding spot and a first round bye.Playoffs, the 1st and 2nd seed teams both lost in the championship round after their first round bye and I the #3 seed am playing the #5 seed for the championship. Just like in the real game the best team does not always win, just ask the Packers! But again exactly what decides the "BEST" team, I scored the most points but did not have the best record. On paper I have a decent quality of some main dependable core players but look a bit weaker in other areas compared to many other teams in our league. On paper you would have said no way I would be the high scorer for the year.Just like the real game at the beginning of the season who would have thought that all the talent that had been assembled that the Eagles would have the record they do at this point in the season? I prefer that leagues run a standard playoff 1 elimination just like in the real world. Although you try to use the best available knowledge to put your team together to be winners there is still the elements of weekly match ups, career days and dud days on the field that you have no control over and LUCK does play a bit whether its the week that you play a team where the opposition has a player that scores three times their normal production or not.The seeding and the 1 elimination is what the real game uses and we are playing a fantasy version of the real game. The points that the Packers or the Saints scored during the regular season does not mean squat in the playoffs and besides setting the playoff schedule of games the regular season record means diddly as well. May the best team on THAT gameday win. Works for the real league and should be sufficient to FF where you are mimicking the real game. Sometimes being lucky is just as important as being good.
Manster
Footballguy
this is how we do it as well. its basically how the NFL does it. And besides, its all about teams getting hot at the right time, even in FF. See the '07 giants.in the playoffs everything starts over. I've been on both sides of it in the playoffs. I've had great regular seasons and been knocked out the playoffs after my 1st round bye. wah, shoulda , coulda, woulda.......see '07 cowboys
