Police ambushed and killed in "start of revolution" in Vegas (1 Viewer)

[Henry Ford]

I wonder if I was carrying a weapon, and the shooters are telling people to get out (rather than killing anyone) if I draw down on him or just GTFO. I'd be curious to hear what some gun owners would do in this situation.

Basing my opinion on absolutely nothing other than my 2 cent brain, I would assume most carrying would do the same thing. Especially an off duty cop or former military. If I was in that position, I would attempt the same, what's the point of carrying? If you're tough enough to carry, should be tough enough to act.

The point of carrying is to save your life or someone else's. If your life or someone else's isn't in immediate danger, there's no reason to act.

 

[ATC1]

Top dog - good on you and raising your kids. You know that there are plenty of parents and adults who are not as responsible though, right? What's the harm in making education and training on safety, use, and storage with an exam or something as a requirement for a gun license though? What's the harm in registration and people being held responsible if their weapon gets into the wrong hands through poor storage (especially if a theft is unreported)?

I had to take a hunters safety course to get my license when I was young. Believe it or not, I still remember the videos that I watched and the emphasis on safety.

I took hunters safety as a kid, and took it again with both of my kids. My son will probably never hunt, but the firearm safety aspect of the training alone was worth it for him to go through.

Are firearm safety classes currently being taught in schools? Would anyone be against these classes?

People are against sex ed because they think it makes kids have sex. The idiots would be out in full force if firearm safety was taught in schools.

Aren't there active shooter drills in schools now?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Top dog - good on you and raising your kids. You know that there are plenty of parents and adults who are not as responsible though, right? What's the harm in making education and training on safety, use, and storage with an exam or something as a requirement for a gun license though? What's the harm in registration and people being held responsible if their weapon gets into the wrong hands through poor storage (especially if a theft is unreported)?

I had to take a hunters safety course to get my license when I was young. Believe it or not, I still remember the videos that I watched and the emphasis on safety.

I took hunters safety as a kid, and took it again with both of my kids. My son will probably never hunt, but the firearm safety aspect of the training alone was worth it for him to go through.

Are firearm safety classes currently being taught in schools? Would anyone be against these classes?

People are against sex ed because they think it makes kids have sex. The idiots would be out in full force if firearm safety was taught in schools.

This would be interesting to hash out- would the left be in favor of firearm safety in schools?

I doubt many on the left think that its "firearm safety" (or the lack thereof) that is causing the problems associated with all the gun killings.

I do believe most all Jr and Sr high schools offer cadets.

 

[Norman Paperman]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

 

[ATC1]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

Copied my post from the other thread.

If the purpose of a registration is to deter crime, I like you am not sure how registering my weapons is supposed to do that. I feel there are better ways to spend money to address the issue.

I would be for necessary background checks for all private sales thus, needing to go through a licensed dealer for private sale transfer. Also would be for mandatory self defense training for those who carry and gun safety classes for gun owners.

 

[humpback]

Top dog - good on you and raising your kids. You know that there are plenty of parents and adults who are not as responsible though, right? What's the harm in making education and training on safety, use, and storage with an exam or something as a requirement for a gun license though? What's the harm in registration and people being held responsible if their weapon gets into the wrong hands through poor storage (especially if a theft is unreported)?

I had to take a hunters safety course to get my license when I was young. Believe it or not, I still remember the videos that I watched and the emphasis on safety.

I took hunters safety as a kid, and took it again with both of my kids. My son will probably never hunt, but the firearm safety aspect of the training alone was worth it for him to go through.

Are firearm safety classes currently being taught in schools? Would anyone be against these classes?

People are against sex ed because they think it makes kids have sex. The idiots would be out in full force if firearm safety was taught in schools.

This would be interesting to hash out- would the left be in favor of firearm safety in schools?

I doubt many on the left think that its "firearm safety" (or the lack thereof) that is causing the problems associated with all the gun killings.

I do believe most all Jr and Sr high schools offer cadets.

I doubt many on the right think that lack of registration of guns is causing the problems associated with all of the gun killings either. Is this a "no"?

 

[Henry Ford]

Top dog - good on you and raising your kids. You know that there are plenty of parents and adults who are not as responsible though, right? What's the harm in making education and training on safety, use, and storage with an exam or something as a requirement for a gun license though? What's the harm in registration and people being held responsible if their weapon gets into the wrong hands through poor storage (especially if a theft is unreported)?

I had to take a hunters safety course to get my license when I was young. Believe it or not, I still remember the videos that I watched and the emphasis on safety.

I took hunters safety as a kid, and took it again with both of my kids. My son will probably never hunt, but the firearm safety aspect of the training alone was worth it for him to go through.

Are firearm safety classes currently being taught in schools? Would anyone be against these classes?

People are against sex ed because they think it makes kids have sex. The idiots would be out in full force if firearm safety was taught in schools.

This would be interesting to hash out- would the left be in favor of firearm safety in schools?

I think it depends on what you mean by firearm safety. Some limited version of that is already taught in schools. A police officer comes in and shows kids what guns are, and explains what you should do if you see a gun. Tells them what a "safety" is, that kind of thing. At least, there was that class several years ago.

There was protesting against sex ed, and some kids' parents took their kids out of class/school for that time or refused to sign permission slips. Not aware of anyone protesting the firearm safety lesson.

If the class involved actually having the kids handle guns, I'd imagine there would be a huge pushback.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Top dog - good on you and raising your kids. You know that there are plenty of parents and adults who are not as responsible though, right? What's the harm in making education and training on safety, use, and storage with an exam or something as a requirement for a gun license though? What's the harm in registration and people being held responsible if their weapon gets into the wrong hands through poor storage (especially if a theft is unreported)?

I had to take a hunters safety course to get my license when I was young. Believe it or not, I still remember the videos that I watched and the emphasis on safety.

I took hunters safety as a kid, and took it again with both of my kids. My son will probably never hunt, but the firearm safety aspect of the training alone was worth it for him to go through.

Are firearm safety classes currently being taught in schools? Would anyone be against these classes?

People are against sex ed because they think it makes kids have sex. The idiots would be out in full force if firearm safety was taught in schools.

This would be interesting to hash out- would the left be in favor of firearm safety in schools?

I doubt many on the left think that its "firearm safety" (or the lack thereof) that is causing the problems associated with all the gun killings.

I do believe most all Jr and Sr high schools offer cadets.

I doubt many on the right think that lack of registration of guns is causing the problems associated with all of the gun killings either. Is this a "no"?

The right doesn't have any issue with the guns used from gun killings, so that's not an equal denominator.

 

[humpback]

Top dog - good on you and raising your kids. You know that there are plenty of parents and adults who are not as responsible though, right? What's the harm in making education and training on safety, use, and storage with an exam or something as a requirement for a gun license though? What's the harm in registration and people being held responsible if their weapon gets into the wrong hands through poor storage (especially if a theft is unreported)?

I had to take a hunters safety course to get my license when I was young. Believe it or not, I still remember the videos that I watched and the emphasis on safety.

I took hunters safety as a kid, and took it again with both of my kids. My son will probably never hunt, but the firearm safety aspect of the training alone was worth it for him to go through.

Are firearm safety classes currently being taught in schools? Would anyone be against these classes?

People are against sex ed because they think it makes kids have sex. The idiots would be out in full force if firearm safety was taught in schools.

This would be interesting to hash out- would the left be in favor of firearm safety in schools?

I doubt many on the left think that its "firearm safety" (or the lack thereof) that is causing the problems associated with all the gun killings.

I do believe most all Jr and Sr high schools offer cadets.

I doubt many on the right think that lack of registration of guns is causing the problems associated with all of the gun killings either. Is this a "no"?

The right doesn't have any issue with the guns used from gun killings, so that's not an equal denominator.

How about you let someone actually answer the question instead of your usual bs?

 

[Henry Ford]

So, humpback, what do you mean by "firearm safety" being taught? What would be part of the curriculum?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

If my answers frighten you Vincent, then you should cease asking scary questions.

 

[humpback]

Top dog - good on you and raising your kids. You know that there are plenty of parents and adults who are not as responsible though, right? What's the harm in making education and training on safety, use, and storage with an exam or something as a requirement for a gun license though? What's the harm in registration and people being held responsible if their weapon gets into the wrong hands through poor storage (especially if a theft is unreported)?

I had to take a hunters safety course to get my license when I was young. Believe it or not, I still remember the videos that I watched and the emphasis on safety.

I took hunters safety as a kid, and took it again with both of my kids. My son will probably never hunt, but the firearm safety aspect of the training alone was worth it for him to go through.

Are firearm safety classes currently being taught in schools? Would anyone be against these classes?

People are against sex ed because they think it makes kids have sex. The idiots would be out in full force if firearm safety was taught in schools.

This would be interesting to hash out- would the left be in favor of firearm safety in schools?

I think it depends on what you mean by firearm safety. Some limited version of that is already taught in schools. A police officer comes in and shows kids what guns are, and explains what you should do if you see a gun. Tells them what a "safety" is, that kind of thing. At least, there was that class several years ago.

There was protesting against sex ed, and some kids' parents took their kids out of class/school for that time or refused to sign permission slips. Not aware of anyone protesting the firearm safety lesson.

If the class involved actually having the kids handle guns, I'd imagine there would be a huge pushback.

I'm sure there would be pushback just like there is for sex ed, but would it be warranted? I think it's an interesting comparison- isn't the argument that talking about icky sex could lead to more kids having icky sex, while talking about firearms could lead to more kids having firearms?

 

[humpback]

If my answers frighten you Vincent, then you should cease asking scary questions.

The only thing frightening about you is the possibility that you could procreate.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

If my answers frighten you Vincent, then you should cease asking scary questions.

The only thing frightening about you is the possibility that you could procreate.

Smile humpy.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Pretty clear to me he is dead solely because he pulled out that gun. Another example of guns in the hands of the citizenry causing the death of innocents.

How many others could have been killed had he not pulled out that gun?

Ah, the unmeasured stat that most lefties just ignore. They also ignore how many people big govts have killed. Hundreds upon hundreds of MILLIONS have died to the hands of Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Minh, Sung, and the socialist and fascist Hitler. Millions more were killed by other Authoritarian and Military govts. Many thousands have tied THIS YEAR to tyrannants who think they know what's best for everybody. These commie loving lefties love to routinely crucify big oil and big business, yet how many people has Exxon or Walmart killed? I can choose to shop at Walmart, but now a days it gets harder and harder for me to really choose my govt or what it decides is illegal, immoral, or just don't like. Milton Friedman once said "Political freedom means the absence of coercion of a man by his fellow men. The fundamental threat to freedom is power to coerce, be it in the hands of a monarch, a dictator, an oligarchy, or a momentary majority." I'd like to add lazy moochers to that list. The political elite from across the world understand that a great portion of people are nothing more than sheep that value security (and "free" money) over freedom and are willing to sell the rest out for it. What is with these lefty clowns who think that govt is their friend or who believe the absolute drivel that hollywood and the media spew about conservatives. Mostly garbage they hear from comedy shows on cable TV. Yet how many of these young mass murders where cons? I am constitutional conservative, not because I hate people or govt but because I respect it and it's power over people......there is a reason we should fear ALL govts......It's called HISTORY....look it up. I trust nobody when it comes to power or govt....not Dumbocrats or the GOP and certainly not the media or Acadamia in this country....they all are just another arm of that power grabbing govt loving lawyers in DC. Things have only gotten worse under so called Democratic rule. People are so clueless in this country and better wake up before we end up stripped of all our freedoms. You keep laughing and making your jokes, but the cost to future generations will be on YOUR shoulders. Taking away guns will be the final straw.....history has shown that to be the beginning of the end for freedom and a good quality of life FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Americans today routinely rely on MSM and Hollyowood for their politically left slanted news. These outlets love to tell us the rich do not pay their fair share, yet most of these evil 1% live in highly Democratic counties like LA,SF,NY,MD,MA. How many millionaires and six figure incomes are there in Federal and even State govts? When looking at the world stage, NY, SF, & LA are very Democratic and are also 3,4,5 in the amount of billionaires. So while the govt and its subsidiary agencies in DC have been adding and growing jobs, as well as taking over another key piece of our economy in healthcare, the rest of America is losing jobs and welfare assistance rolls have tripled. We have .1% growth in GDP and the lowest participation rate ever. To see the endgame of their agenda, look no further than to the near bankrupt cities of Detroit, Chicago, & Philadelphia. You have areas that have been heavily Democratic for decades, yet what has this done to their local economy and more importantly the people. In Detroit, the unions laid waste to Auto industry and took an entire city with it. These companies were forced to pay off unions and political campaigns, rather than spending money on innovation and improving their products. Friedman also said "The greatest achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty that you are talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kind of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system."

Our "govt" has repeatedely lied, spied, experimented and even killed American citizens. They've started both the Great Depression and Recession and laid shambles to many jobs and nearly every industry with mounds of regulations. All created by a 250K workforce (used loosely), employed at the Alphabet Agencies of DC, but controlled by the political elite, who only serve to protect and increase their budgets and govt jobs. While DC has been gaining mostly six figure jobs the last 5-6 years..the Fed has been devalueing our dollars, savings and assets through printing and regular Americans having been dropping from the workforce at a record pace. How many TRILLIONS has the govt wasted or thrown away over the years? Then these moron libs and moderates hand over 1/6th of our economy (Healthcare) to an already overbearing Federal govt and expect a different result? This INSANE agenda otherwise know as the Dumbocratic platform, along with Immigration, is by design. Because what sane human being, who has TRULY witnessed history or has any common sense would buy the lies and hypocracies that exist on their ironic platform..which includes handing over our guns. I guess the same who approve of the record number of dead, illegal, & others stealing and mooching OUR hard earned tax dollars all so a political elite can increase their voting rolls? In this country today you have 1 worker supporting 1.7 moochers. That is SUICIDE!

 

[Henry Ford]

I think it depends on what you mean by firearm safety. Some limited version of that is already taught in schools. A police officer comes in and shows kids what guns are, and explains what you should do if you see a gun. Tells them what a "safety" is, that kind of thing. At least, there was that class several years ago.


There was protesting against sex ed, and some kids' parents took their kids out of class/school for that time or refused to sign permission slips. Not aware of anyone protesting the firearm safety lesson.

If the class involved actually having the kids handle guns, I'd imagine there would be a huge pushback.

I'm sure there would be pushback just like there is for sex ed, but would it be warranted? I think it's an interesting comparison- isn't the argument that talking about icky sex could lead to more kids having icky sex, while talking about firearms could lead to more kids having firearms?

Well, talking about firearms already happens - like I said. Bringing in guns and handling them is a bit more like bringing someone in for everyone to have sex with to teach them about sex ed. And yes, I think that would probably lead to more firearm use/sex.

 

[humpback]

So, humpback, what do you mean by "firearm safety" being taught? What would be part of the curriculum?

No idea, I'm not even advocating for it necessarily, just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition with sex ed.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Pretty clear to me he is dead solely because he pulled out that gun. Another example of guns in the hands of the citizenry causing the death of innocents.

How many others could have been killed had he not pulled out that gun?

Ah, the unmeasured stat that most lefties just ignore. They also ignore how many people big govts have killed. Hundreds upon hundreds of MILLIONS have died to the hands of Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Minh, Sung, and the socialist and fascist Hitler. Millions more were killed by other Authoritarian and Military govts. Many thousands have tied THIS YEAR to tyrannants who think they know what's best for everybody. These commie loving lefties love to routinely crucify big oil and big business, yet how many people has Exxon or Walmart killed? I can choose to shop at Walmart, but now a days it gets harder and harder for me to really choose my govt or what it decides is illegal, immoral, or just don't like. Milton Friedman once said "Political freedom means the absence of coercion of a man by his fellow men. The fundamental threat to freedom is power to coerce, be it in the hands of a monarch, a dictator, an oligarchy, or a momentary majority." I'd like to add lazy moochers to that list. The political elite from across the world understand that a great portion of people are nothing more than sheep that value security (and "free" money) over freedom and are willing to sell the rest out for it. What is with these lefty clowns who think that govt is their friend or who believe the absolute drivel that hollywood and the media spew about conservatives. Mostly garbage they hear from comedy shows on cable TV. Yet how many of these young mass murders where cons? I am constitutional conservative, not because I hate people or govt but because I respect it and it's power over people......there is a reason we should fear ALL govts......It's called HISTORY....look it up. I trust nobody when it comes to power or govt....not Dumbocrats or the GOP and certainly not the media or Acadamia in this country....they all are just another arm of that power grabbing govt loving lawyers in DC. Things have only gotten worse under so called Democratic rule. People are so clueless in this country and better wake up before we end up stripped of all our freedoms. You keep laughing and making your jokes, but the cost to future generations will be on YOUR shoulders. Taking away guns will be the final straw.....history has shown that to be the beginning of the end for freedom and a good quality of life FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Americans today routinely rely on MSM and Hollyowood for their politically left slanted news. These outlets love to tell us the rich do not pay their fair share, yet most of these evil 1% live in highly Democratic counties like LA,SF,NY,MD,MA. How many millionaires and six figure incomes are there in Federal and even State govts? When looking at the world stage, NY, SF, & LA are very Democratic and are also 3,4,5 in the amount of billionaires. So while the govt and its subsidiary agencies in DC have been adding and growing jobs, as well as taking over another key piece of our economy in healthcare, the rest of America is losing jobs and welfare assistance rolls have tripled. We have .1% growth in GDP and the lowest participation rate ever. To see the endgame of their agenda, look no further than to the near bankrupt cities of Detroit, Chicago, & Philadelphia. You have areas that have been heavily Democratic for decades, yet what has this done to their local economy and more importantly the people. In Detroit, the unions laid waste to Auto industry and took an entire city with it. These companies were forced to pay off unions and political campaigns, rather than spending money on innovation and improving their products. Friedman also said "The greatest achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty that you are talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kind of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system."

Our "govt" has repeatedely lied, spied, experimented and even killed American citizens. They've started both the Great Depression and Recession and laid shambles to many jobs and nearly every industry with mounds of regulations. All created by a 250K workforce (used loosely), employed at the Alphabet Agencies of DC, but controlled by the political elite, who only serve to protect and increase their budgets and govt jobs. While DC has been gaining mostly six figure jobs the last 5-6 years..the Fed has been devalueing our dollars, savings and assets through printing and regular Americans having been dropping from the workforce at a record pace. How many TRILLIONS has the govt wasted or thrown away over the years? Then these moron libs and moderates hand over 1/6th of our economy (Healthcare) to an already overbearing Federal govt and expect a different result? This INSANE agenda otherwise know as the Dumbocratic platform, along with Immigration, is by design. Because what sane human being, who has TRULY witnessed history or has any common sense would buy the lies and hypocracies that exist on their ironic platform..which includes handing over our guns. I guess the same who approve of the record number of dead, illegal, & others stealing and mooching OUR hard earned tax dollars all so a political elite can increase their voting rolls? In this country today you have 1 worker supporting 1.7 moochers. That is SUICIDE!

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Top dog - good on you and raising your kids. You know that there are plenty of parents and adults who are not as responsible though, right? What's the harm in making education and training on safety, use, and storage with an exam or something as a requirement for a gun license though? What's the harm in registration and people being held responsible if their weapon gets into the wrong hands through poor storage (especially if a theft is unreported)?

I had to take a hunters safety course to get my license when I was young. Believe it or not, I still remember the videos that I watched and the emphasis on safety.

I took hunters safety as a kid, and took it again with both of my kids. My son will probably never hunt, but the firearm safety aspect of the training alone was worth it for him to go through.

Are firearm safety classes currently being taught in schools? Would anyone be against these classes?

People are against sex ed because they think it makes kids have sex. The idiots would be out in full force if firearm safety was taught in schools.

This would be interesting to hash out- would the left be in favor of firearm safety in schools?

I think it depends on what you mean by firearm safety. Some limited version of that is already taught in schools. A police officer comes in and shows kids what guns are, and explains what you should do if you see a gun. Tells them what a "safety" is, that kind of thing. At least, there was that class several years ago.

There was protesting against sex ed, and some kids' parents took their kids out of class/school for that time or refused to sign permission slips. Not aware of anyone protesting the firearm safety lesson.

If the class involved actually having the kids handle guns, I'd imagine there would be a huge pushback.

Either way the idiots would come out. "You're teaching my kid how to use a gun! Now he can murder people!"

 

[Henry Ford]

So, humpback, what do you mean by "firearm safety" being taught? What would be part of the curriculum?

No idea, I'm not even advocating for it necessarily, just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition with sex ed.

Well, I am definitely in the ten-most-left-leaning people in my voting district over the age of 25, so my experience isn't anywhere near universal - but firearm safety had zero pushback/protesting that I'm aware of in my area.

 

[BigJohn]

Pretty clear to me he is dead solely because he pulled out that gun. Another example of guns in the hands of the citizenry causing the death of innocents.

How many others could have been killed had he not pulled out that gun?

Ah, the unmeasured stat that most lefties just ignore. They also ignore how many people big govts have killed. Hundreds upon hundreds of MILLIONS have died to the hands of Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Minh, Sung, and the socialist and fascist Hitler. Millions more were killed by other Authoritarian and Military govts. Many thousands have tied THIS YEAR to tyrannants who think they know what's best for everybody. These commie loving lefties love to routinely crucify big oil and big business, yet how many people has Exxon or Walmart killed? I can choose to shop at Walmart, but now a days it gets harder and harder for me to really choose my govt or what it decides is illegal, immoral, or just don't like. Milton Friedman once said "Political freedom means the absence of coercion of a man by his fellow men. The fundamental threat to freedom is power to coerce, be it in the hands of a monarch, a dictator, an oligarchy, or a momentary majority." I'd like to add lazy moochers to that list. The political elite from across the world understand that a great portion of people are nothing more than sheep that value security (and "free" money) over freedom and are willing to sell the rest out for it. What is with these lefty clowns who think that govt is their friend or who believe the absolute drivel that hollywood and the media spew about conservatives. Mostly garbage they hear from comedy shows on cable TV. Yet how many of these young mass murders where cons? I am constitutional conservative, not because I hate people or govt but because I respect it and it's power over people......there is a reason we should fear ALL govts......It's called HISTORY....look it up. I trust nobody when it comes to power or govt....not Dumbocrats or the GOP and certainly not the media or Acadamia in this country....they all are just another arm of that power grabbing govt loving lawyers in DC. Things have only gotten worse under so called Democratic rule. People are so clueless in this country and better wake up before we end up stripped of all our freedoms. You keep laughing and making your jokes, but the cost to future generations will be on YOUR shoulders. Taking away guns will be the final straw.....history has shown that to be the beginning of the end for freedom and a good quality of life FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Americans today routinely rely on MSM and Hollyowood for their politically left slanted news. These outlets love to tell us the rich do not pay their fair share, yet most of these evil 1% live in highly Democratic counties like LA,SF,NY,MD,MA. How many millionaires and six figure incomes are there in Federal and even State govts? When looking at the world stage, NY, SF, & LA are very Democratic and are also 3,4,5 in the amount of billionaires. So while the govt and its subsidiary agencies in DC have been adding and growing jobs, as well as taking over another key piece of our economy in healthcare, the rest of America is losing jobs and welfare assistance rolls have tripled. We have .1% growth in GDP and the lowest participation rate ever. To see the endgame of their agenda, look no further than to the near bankrupt cities of Detroit, Chicago, & Philadelphia. You have areas that have been heavily Democratic for decades, yet what has this done to their local economy and more importantly the people. In Detroit, the unions laid waste to Auto industry and took an entire city with it. These companies were forced to pay off unions and political campaigns, rather than spending money on innovation and improving their products. Friedman also said "The greatest achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty that you are talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kind of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system."

Our "govt" has repeatedely lied, spied, experimented and even killed American citizens. They've started both the Great Depression and Recession and laid shambles to many jobs and nearly every industry with mounds of regulations. All created by a 250K workforce (used loosely), employed at the Alphabet Agencies of DC, but controlled by the political elite, who only serve to protect and increase their budgets and govt jobs. While DC has been gaining mostly six figure jobs the last 5-6 years..the Fed has been devalueing our dollars, savings and assets through printing and regular Americans having been dropping from the workforce at a record pace. How many TRILLIONS has the govt wasted or thrown away over the years? Then these moron libs and moderates hand over 1/6th of our economy (Healthcare) to an already overbearing Federal govt and expect a different result? This INSANE agenda otherwise know as the Dumbocratic platform, along with Immigration, is by design. Because what sane human being, who has TRULY witnessed history or has any common sense would buy the lies and hypocracies that exist on their ironic platform..which includes handing over our guns. I guess the same who approve of the record number of dead, illegal, & others stealing and mooching OUR hard earned tax dollars all so a political elite can increase their voting rolls? In this country today you have 1 worker supporting 1.7 moochers. That is SUICIDE!

woah

 

[Henry Ford]

Top dog - good on you and raising your kids. You know that there are plenty of parents and adults who are not as responsible though, right? What's the harm in making education and training on safety, use, and storage with an exam or something as a requirement for a gun license though? What's the harm in registration and people being held responsible if their weapon gets into the wrong hands through poor storage (especially if a theft is unreported)?

I had to take a hunters safety course to get my license when I was young. Believe it or not, I still remember the videos that I watched and the emphasis on safety.

I took hunters safety as a kid, and took it again with both of my kids. My son will probably never hunt, but the firearm safety aspect of the training alone was worth it for him to go through.

Are firearm safety classes currently being taught in schools? Would anyone be against these classes?

People are against sex ed because they think it makes kids have sex. The idiots would be out in full force if firearm safety was taught in schools.

This would be interesting to hash out- would the left be in favor of firearm safety in schools?

I think it depends on what you mean by firearm safety. Some limited version of that is already taught in schools. A police officer comes in and shows kids what guns are, and explains what you should do if you see a gun. Tells them what a "safety" is, that kind of thing. At least, there was that class several years ago.

There was protesting against sex ed, and some kids' parents took their kids out of class/school for that time or refused to sign permission slips. Not aware of anyone protesting the firearm safety lesson.

If the class involved actually having the kids handle guns, I'd imagine there would be a huge pushback.

Either way the idiots would come out. "You're teaching my kid how to use a gun! Now he can murder people!"

That's possible. It wasn't my experience in actually having a kid in the class when this was taught.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

So, humpback, what do you mean by "firearm safety" being taught? What would be part of the curriculum?

No idea, I'm not even advocating for it necessarily, just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition with sex ed.

Well, I am definitely in the ten-most-left-leaning people in my voting district over the age of 25, so my experience isn't anywhere near universal - but firearm safety had zero pushback/protesting that I'm aware of in my area.

Im in California. And here we have California Cadet Corp at nearly every public jr high and sr high school.

Every student can shoot guns. No pushback.

*But, like a background check that has frequent updates. To remain in the Cadets you must pass ALL classes and have no criminal, alcohol or drug charges. Otherwise you are removed.

 

[Henry Ford]

Also, a good study on the effectiveness of gun safety being taught to kids is mentioned in this op-ed by the person who did the study:

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2014/02/06/gun-safety-programs-dont-work-for-children

 

[Henry Ford]

Pretty clear to me he is dead solely because he pulled out that gun. Another example of guns in the hands of the citizenry causing the death of innocents.

How many others could have been killed had he not pulled out that gun?

Ah, the unmeasured stat that most lefties just ignore. They also ignore how many people big govts have killed. Hundreds upon hundreds of MILLIONS have died to the hands of Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Minh, Sung, and the socialist and fascist Hitler. Millions more were killed by other Authoritarian and Military govts. Many thousands have tied THIS YEAR to tyrannants who think they know what's best for everybody. These commie loving lefties love to routinely crucify big oil and big business, yet how many people has Exxon or Walmart killed? I can choose to shop at Walmart, but now a days it gets harder and harder for me to really choose my govt or what it decides is illegal, immoral, or just don't like. Milton Friedman once said "Political freedom means the absence of coercion of a man by his fellow men. The fundamental threat to freedom is power to coerce, be it in the hands of a monarch, a dictator, an oligarchy, or a momentary majority." I'd like to add lazy moochers to that list. The political elite from across the world understand that a great portion of people are nothing more than sheep that value security (and "free" money) over freedom and are willing to sell the rest out for it. What is with these lefty clowns who think that govt is their friend or who believe the absolute drivel that hollywood and the media spew about conservatives. Mostly garbage they hear from comedy shows on cable TV. Yet how many of these young mass murders where cons? I am constitutional conservative, not because I hate people or govt but because I respect it and it's power over people......there is a reason we should fear ALL govts......It's called HISTORY....look it up. I trust nobody when it comes to power or govt....not Dumbocrats or the GOP and certainly not the media or Acadamia in this country....they all are just another arm of that power grabbing govt loving lawyers in DC. Things have only gotten worse under so called Democratic rule. People are so clueless in this country and better wake up before we end up stripped of all our freedoms. You keep laughing and making your jokes, but the cost to future generations will be on YOUR shoulders. Taking away guns will be the final straw.....history has shown that to be the beginning of the end for freedom and a good quality of life FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Americans today routinely rely on MSM and Hollyowood for their politically left slanted news. These outlets love to tell us the rich do not pay their fair share, yet most of these evil 1% live in highly Democratic counties like LA,SF,NY,MD,MA. How many millionaires and six figure incomes are there in Federal and even State govts? When looking at the world stage, NY, SF, & LA are very Democratic and are also 3,4,5 in the amount of billionaires. So while the govt and its subsidiary agencies in DC have been adding and growing jobs, as well as taking over another key piece of our economy in healthcare, the rest of America is losing jobs and welfare assistance rolls have tripled. We have .1% growth in GDP and the lowest participation rate ever. To see the endgame of their agenda, look no further than to the near bankrupt cities of Detroit, Chicago, & Philadelphia. You have areas that have been heavily Democratic for decades, yet what has this done to their local economy and more importantly the people. In Detroit, the unions laid waste to Auto industry and took an entire city with it. These companies were forced to pay off unions and political campaigns, rather than spending money on innovation and improving their products. Friedman also said "The greatest achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty that you are talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kind of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system."

Our "govt" has repeatedely lied, spied, experimented and even killed American citizens. They've started both the Great Depression and Recession and laid shambles to many jobs and nearly every industry with mounds of regulations. All created by a 250K workforce (used loosely), employed at the Alphabet Agencies of DC, but controlled by the political elite, who only serve to protect and increase their budgets and govt jobs. While DC has been gaining mostly six figure jobs the last 5-6 years..the Fed has been devalueing our dollars, savings and assets through printing and regular Americans having been dropping from the workforce at a record pace. How many TRILLIONS has the govt wasted or thrown away over the years? Then these moron libs and moderates hand over 1/6th of our economy (Healthcare) to an already overbearing Federal govt and expect a different result? This INSANE agenda otherwise know as the Dumbocratic platform, along with Immigration, is by design. Because what sane human being, who has TRULY witnessed history or has any common sense would buy the lies and hypocracies that exist on their ironic platform..which includes handing over our guns. I guess the same who approve of the record number of dead, illegal, & others stealing and mooching OUR hard earned tax dollars all so a political elite can increase their voting rolls? In this country today you have 1 worker supporting 1.7 moochers. That is SUICIDE!

I don't appreciate being used as support for your insane ramblings.

 

[Freelove]

Pretty clear to me he is dead solely because he pulled out that gun. Another example of guns in the hands of the citizenry causing the death of innocents.

How many others could have been killed had he not pulled out that gun?

Ah, the unmeasured stat that most lefties just ignore. They also ignore how many people big govts have killed. Hundreds upon hundreds of MILLIONS have died to the hands of Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Minh, Sung, and the socialist and fascist Hitler.

Actually, "to the hands of," there is mostly metaphor. What those people actually died from, a lot of the time, was guns. Also gas, bombs, and like such as. But mostly, guns.

 

[humpback]

So, humpback, what do you mean by "firearm safety" being taught? What would be part of the curriculum?

No idea, I'm not even advocating for it necessarily, just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition with sex ed.

Well, I am definitely in the ten-most-left-leaning people in my voting district over the age of 25, so my experience isn't anywhere near universal - but firearm safety had zero pushback/protesting that I'm aware of in my area.

Im in California. And here we have California Cadet Corp at nearly every public jr high and sr high school.

Every student can shoot guns. No pushback.

*But, like a background check that has frequent updates. To remain in the Cadets you must pass ALL classes and have no criminal, alcohol or drug charges. Otherwise you are removed.

 

[[icon]]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

So, humpback, what do you mean by "firearm safety" being taught? What would be part of the curriculum?

No idea, I'm not even advocating for it necessarily, just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition with sex ed.

Well, I am definitely in the ten-most-left-leaning people in my voting district over the age of 25, so my experience isn't anywhere near universal - but firearm safety had zero pushback/protesting that I'm aware of in my area.

Im in California. And here we have California Cadet Corp at nearly every public jr high and sr high school.

Every student can shoot guns. No pushback.

*But, like a background check that has frequent updates. To remain in the Cadets you must pass ALL classes and have no criminal, alcohol or drug charges. Otherwise you are removed.

You wanted something more loosey-goosey?

 

[humpback]

So, humpback, what do you mean by "firearm safety" being taught? What would be part of the curriculum?

No idea, I'm not even advocating for it necessarily, just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition with sex ed.

Well, I am definitely in the ten-most-left-leaning people in my voting district over the age of 25, so my experience isn't anywhere near universal - but firearm safety had zero pushback/protesting that I'm aware of in my area.

Im in California. And here we have California Cadet Corp at nearly every public jr high and sr high school.

Every student can shoot guns. No pushback.

*But, like a background check that has frequent updates. To remain in the Cadets you must pass ALL classes and have no criminal, alcohol or drug charges. Otherwise you are removed.

You wanted something more loosey-goosey?

Not making stuff up would be nice, relevance would just be an unexpected bonus.

 

[Apes with Guns]

Dad.

Amanda, 22, and her husband, Jerad Miller, 31, have been identified by police as the couple behind the shooting rampage in Las Vegas on Sunday that left two police officers and a shopper dead.

“She was my sunshine and now she's gone, and I just don't think that I'll be able to get over it,” said Todd Woodruff, 48, of Lafayette. “That son of a ##### took my sunshine. He ought to be glad he's dead or else I'm chasing him down.”

It was Amanda, police said, who shot several times at the officers, killed the Wal-Mart shopper and finally, under fire from police, shot her husband and then herself, bringing the day’s death toll to five.

Authorities are still looking for a motive, but believed the pair shared an ideology with “militia and white supremacists,” including the belief that law enforcement was the “oppressor.”

A 2011 Facebook page revealed a darker side of Amanda, in which she warned that "the people of the world" are "lucky I can’t kill you now but remember one day I will get you because one day all hell will break loose and I’ll be standing in the middle of it with a shotgun in one hand and a pistol in the other.”

But as far as her father is concerned, the problem was all Jerad Miller’s. Woodruff said he begged his daughter not to marry the man who was obsessed with far right-wing movements like Patriot Nation.

“She just said, 'I love him, Dad,'“ Woodruff said, speaking on the patio out front of a modest house in Lafayette, where his daughter was raised. “I told her, 'If you really love him that much, I'll try to put up with him. But if I ever see a mark on you from him, I'll kill him.”

Amanda, who grew up in Lafayette, was a good student at Jefferson High School where she played the violin. Woodruff said Amanda met Jerad on a visit to a flea market where he worked as a cashier.

Woodruff minced no words about the wedding. “I didn’t even want to be there,” he said. “The only reason I was there was because I wanted to walk my daughter down the aisle for the first time. But I puked my head off in the bathroom beforehand because I so didn’t want her to marry him.”

Nor did he want her to move to Las Vegas. At the time, the couple was staying with the Woodruffs after giving up their apartment. Amanda was working at Hobby Lobby and was going to transfer to the Las Vegas store, he said.

“She said there was something out there, some movement she wanted to be a part of,” Woodruff said.

this makes me sad. :(

 

[Freelove]

Is the point that Obama is Hitler or Stalin? Or that when mobs of irrational trigger happy zealots get armed and roam the streets in the name of nationalistic dogma, bad things tend to happen to innocent people?

 

[Thunderlips]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

No.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

So, humpback, what do you mean by "firearm safety" being taught? What would be part of the curriculum?

No idea, I'm not even advocating for it necessarily, just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition with sex ed.

Well, I am definitely in the ten-most-left-leaning people in my voting district over the age of 25, so my experience isn't anywhere near universal - but firearm safety had zero pushback/protesting that I'm aware of in my area.

Im in California. And here we have California Cadet Corp at nearly every public jr high and sr high school.

Every student can shoot guns. No pushback.

*But, like a background check that has frequent updates. To remain in the Cadets you must pass ALL classes and have no criminal, alcohol or drug charges. Otherwise you are removed.

You wanted something more loosey-goosey?

Not making stuff up would be nice, relevance would just be an unexpected bonus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Cadet_Corps

 

[Henry Ford]

Not making stuff up would be nice, relevance would just be an unexpected bonus.

You don't believe in the California Cadet Corps?

 

[msommer]

I wonder if I was carrying a weapon, and the shooters are telling people to get out (rather than killing anyone) if I draw down on him or just GTFO. I'd be curious to hear what some gun owners would do in this situation.

Basing my opinion on absolutely nothing other than my 2 cent brain, I would assume most carrying would do the same thing. Especially an off duty cop or former military. If I was in that position, I would attempt the same, what's the point of carrying? If you're tough enough to carry, should be tough enough to act.

I definitely don't agree.

If someone yanks out a gun and is yelling at everyone to get out, I think I rather just get out instead of pulling out my gun and having a showdown.

Unless he was saying for everyone to get out except my family or something.

The idea of carrying (for most people I would think) isn't to try and play Johnny Hero, but moreso a means to defend yourself.

Is Not about playing Johnny law every chance you get.

Is about having a last line of self defense in situation that threatens the lives of you or loved ones.

What about the half million crimes that were averted (described in the open carry thread), not a 'Johnny Law' among them?

 

[[icon]]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

No.

Why not? That not only meets, but exceeds the firearms training regimen of New York State Troopers.

You're comfortable with paying people who have gone through that regimen to protect citizens, but you don't want additional folks helping that are willing to do it for free?

 

[tommyGunZ]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

Beyond silly. The last thing we need are these Rambo wannabes actual believing they have official responsibilities.

Being able to shoot a gun accurately does not make one a law enforcement officer.

 

[Quez]

The NSA needs to add the word "manifesto" to this list

http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-prism-keywords-for-domestic-spying-2013-6

 

[Guest]

I think it depends on what you mean by firearm safety. Some limited version of that is already taught in schools. A police officer comes in and shows kids what guns are, and explains what you should do if you see a gun. Tells them what a "safety" is, that kind of thing. At least, there was that class several years ago.


There was protesting against sex ed, and some kids' parents took their kids out of class/school for that time or refused to sign permission slips. Not aware of anyone protesting the firearm safety lesson.

If the class involved actually having the kids handle guns, I'd imagine there would be a huge pushback.

I'm sure there would be pushback just like there is for sex ed, but would it be warranted? I think it's an interesting comparison- isn't the argument that talking about icky sex could lead to more kids having icky sex, while talking about firearms could lead to more kids having firearms?

Well, talking about firearms already happens - like I said. Bringing in guns and handling them is a bit more like bringing someone in for everyone to have sex with to teach them about sex ed. And yes, I think that would probably lead to more firearm use/sex.

May be NSFW.

 

[msommer]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

No.

Give that training and those requirements to the police, I believe icon in another thread has mentioned that hey need it (in his neck of the woods)

 

[StrikeS2k]

Pretty clear to me he is dead solely because he pulled out that gun. Another example of guns in the hands of the citizenry causing the death of innocents.

How many others could have been killed had he not pulled out that gun?

Ah, the unmeasured stat that most lefties just ignore. They also ignore how many people big govts have killed. Hundreds upon hundreds of MILLIONS have died to the hands of Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Minh, Sung, and the socialist and fascist Hitler. Millions more were killed by other Authoritarian and Military govts. Many thousands have tied THIS YEAR to tyrannants who think they know what's best for everybody. These commie loving lefties love to routinely crucify big oil and big business, yet how many people has Exxon or Walmart killed? I can choose to shop at Walmart, but now a days it gets harder and harder for me to really choose my govt or what it decides is illegal, immoral, or just don't like. Milton Friedman once said "Political freedom means the absence of coercion of a man by his fellow men. The fundamental threat to freedom is power to coerce, be it in the hands of a monarch, a dictator, an oligarchy, or a momentary majority." I'd like to add lazy moochers to that list. The political elite from across the world understand that a great portion of people are nothing more than sheep that value security (and "free" money) over freedom and are willing to sell the rest out for it. What is with these lefty clowns who think that govt is their friend or who believe the absolute drivel that hollywood and the media spew about conservatives. Mostly garbage they hear from comedy shows on cable TV. Yet how many of these young mass murders where cons? I am constitutional conservative, not because I hate people or govt but because I respect it and it's power over people......there is a reason we should fear ALL govts......It's called HISTORY....look it up. I trust nobody when it comes to power or govt....not Dumbocrats or the GOP and certainly not the media or Acadamia in this country....they all are just another arm of that power grabbing govt loving lawyers in DC. Things have only gotten worse under so called Democratic rule. People are so clueless in this country and better wake up before we end up stripped of all our freedoms. You keep laughing and making your jokes, but the cost to future generations will be on YOUR shoulders. Taking away guns will be the final straw.....history has shown that to be the beginning of the end for freedom and a good quality of life FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Americans today routinely rely on MSM and Hollyowood for their politically left slanted news. These outlets love to tell us the rich do not pay their fair share, yet most of these evil 1% live in highly Democratic counties like LA,SF,NY,MD,MA. How many millionaires and six figure incomes are there in Federal and even State govts? When looking at the world stage, NY, SF, & LA are very Democratic and are also 3,4,5 in the amount of billionaires. So while the govt and its subsidiary agencies in DC have been adding and growing jobs, as well as taking over another key piece of our economy in healthcare, the rest of America is losing jobs and welfare assistance rolls have tripled. We have .1% growth in GDP and the lowest participation rate ever. To see the endgame of their agenda, look no further than to the near bankrupt cities of Detroit, Chicago, & Philadelphia. You have areas that have been heavily Democratic for decades, yet what has this done to their local economy and more importantly the people. In Detroit, the unions laid waste to Auto industry and took an entire city with it. These companies were forced to pay off unions and political campaigns, rather than spending money on innovation and improving their products. Friedman also said "The greatest achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty that you are talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kind of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system."

Our "govt" has repeatedely lied, spied, experimented and even killed American citizens. They've started both the Great Depression and Recession and laid shambles to many jobs and nearly every industry with mounds of regulations. All created by a 250K workforce (used loosely), employed at the Alphabet Agencies of DC, but controlled by the political elite, who only serve to protect and increase their budgets and govt jobs. While DC has been gaining mostly six figure jobs the last 5-6 years..the Fed has been devalueing our dollars, savings and assets through printing and regular Americans having been dropping from the workforce at a record pace. How many TRILLIONS has the govt wasted or thrown away over the years? Then these moron libs and moderates hand over 1/6th of our economy (Healthcare) to an already overbearing Federal govt and expect a different result? This INSANE agenda otherwise know as the Dumbocratic platform, along with Immigration, is by design. Because what sane human being, who has TRULY witnessed history or has any common sense would buy the lies and hypocracies that exist on their ironic platform..which includes handing over our guns. I guess the same who approve of the record number of dead, illegal, & others stealing and mooching OUR hard earned tax dollars all so a political elite can increase their voting rolls? In this country today you have 1 worker supporting 1.7 moochers. That is SUICIDE!

I don't appreciate being used as support for your insane ramblings.

If I were you I'd be careful before you show up here one day and find yourself named "Henry Ford Fan".

 

[Thunderlips]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

No.

Why not? That not only meets, but exceeds the firearms training regimen of New York State Troopers.

You're comfortable with paying people who have gone through that regimen to protect citizens, but you don't want additional folks helping that are willing to do it for free?

Just doesn't feel right.... Gun advocates tell me that non suicide deaths by gun are down. I don't think more guns on the street (even in the hands of those who, ideally, would use them for good) would be a solution to the perceived pandemic. I'm fine with municipalities and local governments adding more police. I don't have a problem with citizens having conceal or even open carry licenses.... but I think though if you start allowing volunteers to "posse up"....you start having more George Zimmerman situations.

I don't think these problems are solved by taking away guns or allowing more people "quasi" positions of authority. What we have is an overall societal sickness; a morbid fascination amongst some weak minded people that a killing spree or using guns to create public mayhem is the way to go....a way to make their mark.

 

[Apes with Guns]

I read this article on gawker this morning, and liked it. i feel it's relevant to this thread, and so I'm providing the link.

Summary: a gun advocate's opinion on the death of Joseph Wilcox and the larger conversation about civilians carry firearms.

Please to enjoy or destroy.

http://gawker.com/its-really-hard-to-be-a-good-guy-with-a-gun-1588660306?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=tuesdayPM

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

Beyond silly. The last thing we need are these Rambo wannabes actual believing they have official responsibilities.

Being able to shoot a gun accurately does not make one a law enforcement officer.

Who said anything about giving them law enforcement responsibilities beyond self defense?

Just being willing to go through this regimen tells me a person wants to be responsible and is not a Rambo wannabe.

Yeah so when things escalate we don't have a punch or punches... we have dead bodies.

 

[[icon]]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

No.

Why not? That not only meets, but exceeds the firearms training regimen of New York State Troopers.

You're comfortable with paying people who have gone through that regimen to protect citizens, but you don't want additional folks helping that are willing to do it for free?

Just doesn't feel right.... Gun advocates tell me that non suicide deaths by gun are down. I don't think more guns on the street (even in the hands of those who, ideally, would use them for good) would be a solution to the perceived pandemic. I'm fine with municipalities and local governments adding more police. I don't have a problem with citizens having conceal or even open carry licenses.... but I think though if you start allowing volunteers to "posse up"....you start having more George Zimmerman situations.

I don't think these problems are solved by taking away guns or allowing more people "quasi" positions of authority. What we have is an overall societal sickness; a morbid fascination amongst some weak minded people that a killing spree or using guns to create public mayhem is the way to go....a way to make their mark.

HEre's the deal..

Anyone who would want to do this IS ALREADY CARRYING. Why not offer up the training?

That's my problem with the gun control crowd.... I'm not terribly sure they understand reality:

"Make them illegal!" - Yes because people using guns for crime are obviously concerned with following the law

"Make people register" - Like our government could maintain that database accurately, particularly with the repurcussions required for such registration to carry any teeth. Finally... nobody would enforce it. See examples in action now.

Looks guys... the guns aren't going anywhere. You can dig in your heels and scoff at the notion that guns on the street can be used for good. Or you could open your eyes, your minds, and understand that those firearms are GOING to be there, no matter what you do..... so perhaps it's time to look at intelligent alternatives and give the "Good guys" some training to make sure they're able to achieve their goals.

Limit their reach and role... these guys aren't given a badge and gun to wave around like full-fledged officers. HOWEVER, when push comes to shove, considering they're going to be carrying anyway...you WANT these guys educated and trained.

.... or we could just keep our heads in the sand and keep yelling for stupid #### like limiting magazine capacity and banning scary looking rifles.

Your call.

 

[ATC1]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

Beyond silly. The last thing we need are these Rambo wannabes actual believing they have official responsibilities.

Being able to shoot a gun accurately does not make one a law enforcement officer.

Who said anything about giving them law enforcement responsibilities beyond self defense?

Just being willing to go through this regimen tells me a person wants to be responsible and is not a Rambo wannabe.

Yeah so when things escalate we don't have a punch or punches... we have dead bodies.

People responsible enough to take these courses know how to avoid being in a fight and not let things "escalate"?

I now see where icon asked about volunteer police. I would need to know what the limitations of this person would be. If it is just to be able to carry for self defense vs ability to have some type of law enforcement responsibility. A law enforcement officer should have some distinction that he is a law officer such as a badge or uniform.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Pretty clear to me he is dead solely because he pulled out that gun. Another example of guns in the hands of the citizenry causing the death of innocents.

How many others could have been killed had he not pulled out that gun?

Ah, the unmeasured stat that most lefties just ignore. They also ignore how many people big govts have killed. Hundreds upon hundreds of MILLIONS have died to the hands of Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Minh, Sung, and the socialist and fascist Hitler. Millions more were killed by other Authoritarian and Military govts. Many thousands have tied THIS YEAR to tyrannants who think they know what's best for everybody. These commie loving lefties love to routinely crucify big oil and big business, yet how many people has Exxon or Walmart killed? I can choose to shop at Walmart, but now a days it gets harder and harder for me to really choose my govt or what it decides is illegal, immoral, or just don't like. Milton Friedman once said "Political freedom means the absence of coercion of a man by his fellow men. The fundamental threat to freedom is power to coerce, be it in the hands of a monarch, a dictator, an oligarchy, or a momentary majority." I'd like to add lazy moochers to that list. The political elite from across the world understand that a great portion of people are nothing more than sheep that value security (and "free" money) over freedom and are willing to sell the rest out for it. What is with these lefty clowns who think that govt is their friend or who believe the absolute drivel that hollywood and the media spew about conservatives. Mostly garbage they hear from comedy shows on cable TV. Yet how many of these young mass murders where cons? I am constitutional conservative, not because I hate people or govt but because I respect it and it's power over people......there is a reason we should fear ALL govts......It's called HISTORY....look it up. I trust nobody when it comes to power or govt....not Dumbocrats or the GOP and certainly not the media or Acadamia in this country....they all are just another arm of that power grabbing govt loving lawyers in DC. Things have only gotten worse under so called Democratic rule. People are so clueless in this country and better wake up before we end up stripped of all our freedoms. You keep laughing and making your jokes, but the cost to future generations will be on YOUR shoulders. Taking away guns will be the final straw.....history has shown that to be the beginning of the end for freedom and a good quality of life FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Americans today routinely rely on MSM and Hollyowood for their politically left slanted news. These outlets love to tell us the rich do not pay their fair share, yet most of these evil 1% live in highly Democratic counties like LA,SF,NY,MD,MA. How many millionaires and six figure incomes are there in Federal and even State govts? When looking at the world stage, NY, SF, & LA are very Democratic and are also 3,4,5 in the amount of billionaires. So while the govt and its subsidiary agencies in DC have been adding and growing jobs, as well as taking over another key piece of our economy in healthcare, the rest of America is losing jobs and welfare assistance rolls have tripled. We have .1% growth in GDP and the lowest participation rate ever. To see the endgame of their agenda, look no further than to the near bankrupt cities of Detroit, Chicago, & Philadelphia. You have areas that have been heavily Democratic for decades, yet what has this done to their local economy and more importantly the people. In Detroit, the unions laid waste to Auto industry and took an entire city with it. These companies were forced to pay off unions and political campaigns, rather than spending money on innovation and improving their products. Friedman also said "The greatest achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty that you are talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kind of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system."

Our "govt" has repeatedely lied, spied, experimented and even killed American citizens. They've started both the Great Depression and Recession and laid shambles to many jobs and nearly every industry with mounds of regulations. All created by a 250K workforce (used loosely), employed at the Alphabet Agencies of DC, but controlled by the political elite, who only serve to protect and increase their budgets and govt jobs. While DC has been gaining mostly six figure jobs the last 5-6 years..the Fed has been devalueing our dollars, savings and assets through printing and regular Americans having been dropping from the workforce at a record pace. How many TRILLIONS has the govt wasted or thrown away over the years? Then these moron libs and moderates hand over 1/6th of our economy (Healthcare) to an already overbearing Federal govt and expect a different result? This INSANE agenda otherwise know as the Dumbocratic platform, along with Immigration, is by design. Because what sane human being, who has TRULY witnessed history or has any common sense would buy the lies and hypocracies that exist on their ironic platform..which includes handing over our guns. I guess the same who approve of the record number of dead, illegal, & others stealing and mooching OUR hard earned tax dollars all so a political elite can increase their voting rolls? In this country today you have 1 worker supporting 1.7 moochers. That is SUICIDE!

Could someone translate this from KooK for me? TIA.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

No.

Why not? That not only meets, but exceeds the firearms training regimen of New York State Troopers.

You're comfortable with paying people who have gone through that regimen to protect citizens, but you don't want additional folks helping that are willing to do it for free?

Just doesn't feel right.... Gun advocates tell me that non suicide deaths by gun are down. I don't think more guns on the street (even in the hands of those who, ideally, would use them for good) would be a solution to the perceived pandemic. I'm fine with municipalities and local governments adding more police. I don't have a problem with citizens having conceal or even open carry licenses.... but I think though if you start allowing volunteers to "posse up"....you start having more George Zimmerman situations.

I don't think these problems are solved by taking away guns or allowing more people "quasi" positions of authority. What we have is an overall societal sickness; a morbid fascination amongst some weak minded people that a killing spree or using guns to create public mayhem is the way to go....a way to make their mark.

HEre's the deal..

Anyone who would want to do this IS ALREADY CARRYING. Why not offer up the training?

That's my problem with the gun control crowd.... I'm not terribly sure they understand reality:

"Make them illegal!" - Yes because people using guns for crime are obviously concerned with following the law

"Make people register" - Like our government could maintain that database accurately, particularly with the repurcussions required for such registration to carry any teeth. Finally... nobody would enforce it. See examples in action now.

Looks guys... the guns aren't going anywhere. You can dig in your heels and scoff at the notion that guns on the street can be used for good. Or you could open your eyes, your minds, and understand that those firearms are GOING to be there, no matter what you do..... so perhaps it's time to look at intelligent alternatives and give the "Good guys" some training to make sure they're able to achieve their goals.

Limit their reach and role... these guys aren't given a badge and gun to wave around like full-fledged officers. HOWEVER, when push comes to shove, considering they're going to be carrying anyway...you WANT these guys educated and trained.

.... or we could just keep our heads in the sand and keep yelling for stupid #### like limiting magazine capacity and banning scary looking rifles.

Your call.

There is a huge difference between "educated and trained" and "authorized to use force by the state." Nobody minds the former. The latter is a nightmare. When you authorize anyone other than the government to engage in law enforcement you're effectively advocating anarchy.

And that's just the conceptual problems. There's a ton of practical problems as well, most prominently that they wouldn't be bound by the Constitution. And that parties wronged by them would have little recourse (42 usc 1983 not applicable, civil liability limited to the person's assets).

It's a dumb and dangerous idea.

ETA: If you mean that they'd actually be police officers and WOULD be agents of the state and bound by the law and the Constitution and subject to other checks on police power like internal affairs and whatnot, that's a different story. But I don't know why anyone would agree to do that for free.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I carry a gun for 3 years now and it is because I believe less mass murders would occur if more responsible people carried and if there were no easy targeted areas. As such, I feel I should be one of those people. My folks are conservative, not hunters, and did own a shotgun (no pistols) for house protection only.

This is good schtick

What are your thoughts on Volunteer police departments?

Depends - we talking Neighborhood Watch like George Zimmerman, or are we talking fully trained, and continually trained, personnel?

If they are carrying weapons - without more knowledge, it is an exceptionally bad idea.

• Of course there would be a Criminal and psych background screen.

• Let's say there is an initial 6 weekend course (12 days) required for initial training and qualification.

• Must score 85% or better on shooting accuracy drills (Concealed carry only requires 80% in state of TN, I scored 100%).

• Semi-Annual 5-hour saturday class twice a year to go through a few drills and re qualify at 85% or better.

Would that make you comfortable with an individual carrying a firearm with the intent to engage any lethal threat to the public (case in point, shooting sprees)?

Beyond silly. The last thing we need are these Rambo wannabes actual believing they have official responsibilities.

Being able to shoot a gun accurately does not make one a law enforcement officer.

Who said anything about giving them law enforcement responsibilities beyond self defense?

Just being willing to go through this regimen tells me a person wants to be responsible and is not a Rambo wannabe.

Yeah so when things escalate we don't have a punch or punches... we have dead bodies.

People responsible enough to take these courses know how to avoid being in a fight and not let things "escalate"?

I now see where icon asked about volunteer police. I would need to know what the limitations of this person would be. If it is just to be able to carry for self defense vs ability to have some type of law enforcement responsibility. A law enforcement officer should have some distinction that he is a law officer such as a badge or uniform.

Are you here in reality? People carrying guns take on a different mind set.

Now you may say "well not everyone". So be it. I'll retort "most". I see it first hand continually. Its undeniable.