ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Everything Dan Campbell did in the last three minutes of today’s game
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Post here when coaches do something you disagree with (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GreenNGold
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I’m not clever enough to do the strike through thing but THAT…and also the last three WEEKS as the play caller.
they need to gather all his friends and every coach who knows him and do an intervention.get the headset. make him give up the play sheet. No more, Dan, no more.
sho nuff
Footballguy
At one point Indy threw 2 straight passes. JT stuck at 8 carries from the first half til late in the 4th quarter. That drive was heavy run and theybscore the tying TD. Then go on to lose.
GB. 4th and 10 in the first quarter. Bring out the FG unit late…for a 56 yarder (when Crosby has struggled all year as well as in pregame warm ups). Take a TO….then punt. They were in Rams territory. Take the delay and still punt. Save the TO.
GB. 4th and 10 in the first quarter. Bring out the FG unit late…for a 56 yarder (when Crosby has struggled all year as well as in pregame warm ups). Take a TO….then punt. They were in Rams territory. Take the delay and still punt. Save the TO.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Bill Simmons posted this the other day, from a 1978 game in which the Bills ... well, just read it:
I bet if you fed these numbers into a WP calculator, instead of spitting out a number it would just say, "It was the '70s, man."
If you read through the article, his rationale was that they hadn't been punting well under pressure, so by making it a free kick they thought they'd have a better chance of pinning the Pats back and making their game-winning drive harder. (Spoiler alert: it didn't work out that way).
I bet if you fed these numbers into a WP calculator, instead of spitting out a number it would just say, "It was the '70s, man."
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Post here when (former) coaches (and former QBs) say something you disagree with.
Craziest thing about this discussion is that Simms and crew don't even understand that the argument for a 2PC when you're down nine has nothing to do with analytics, in the sense of win probability calculations. It's entirely about giving yourself more information earlier on.
Craziest thing about this discussion is that Simms and crew don't even understand that the argument for a 2PC when you're down nine has nothing to do with analytics, in the sense of win probability calculations. It's entirely about giving yourself more information earlier on.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
A lot of the commentator-type folks use analytics as a catch all term for anything that’s not by the book or based on gut feelings.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
RESERVED
Placeholder for Dan Campbell’s next in game knucklehead move. Time mismanagement, not getting the play in quick enough (wasted timeout), bailing out the other team by calling timeout when actually we’re trying to bleed the clock, running on 3rd & long, and of course everyone’s favorite weekly special, going for it on 4th down on your own 30 EARLY in the game or when you’re only down 1 or 2 scores. Flicking brilliant coach.
Teddy Bridgewater was in New Orleans with DC for two years. They asked him about the Lions rookie HC:
"Dan, he's awesome. His energy is contagious and I'm pretty sure those players in Detroit love playing for him. I was able to spend those two years with him in New Orleans and the things that he was able to do with those tight ends in that room — whenever he stood in front of the team and talked, you're ready to just storm out of that meeting and punch a guy in the face for no reason."
That aspect of DC, we love that guy. He has a bunch of scrubs playing over their heads and keeping games they have no business being in close (mostly - 2.5 blowouts.)
The guy who puts on the headset and calls plays and makes in game decisions? We hate that guy. Except bc that guy has a 6-year contract, and the owner has a crush on him - we’re stuck with him.
Hoping MCDC takes note of what his collection of castoffs and UDFAs have been up to and starts emulating them. Show some damn improvement. Dude….Dooooode…we love you man, but rn you are killing us.
Placeholder for Dan Campbell’s next in game knucklehead move. Time mismanagement, not getting the play in quick enough (wasted timeout), bailing out the other team by calling timeout when actually we’re trying to bleed the clock, running on 3rd & long, and of course everyone’s favorite weekly special, going for it on 4th down on your own 30 EARLY in the game or when you’re only down 1 or 2 scores. Flicking brilliant coach.
Teddy Bridgewater was in New Orleans with DC for two years. They asked him about the Lions rookie HC:
"Dan, he's awesome. His energy is contagious and I'm pretty sure those players in Detroit love playing for him. I was able to spend those two years with him in New Orleans and the things that he was able to do with those tight ends in that room — whenever he stood in front of the team and talked, you're ready to just storm out of that meeting and punch a guy in the face for no reason."
That aspect of DC, we love that guy. He has a bunch of scrubs playing over their heads and keeping games they have no business being in close (mostly - 2.5 blowouts.)
The guy who puts on the headset and calls plays and makes in game decisions? We hate that guy. Except bc that guy has a 6-year contract, and the owner has a crush on him - we’re stuck with him.
Hoping MCDC takes note of what his collection of castoffs and UDFAs have been up to and starts emulating them. Show some damn improvement. Dude….Dooooode…we love you man, but rn you are killing us.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I distinctly remember Dan Campbell being asked during OTAs where he calmed down RE: analytics VS feel. Said he uses both but it’s contextual, depending on game situation, who you’re playing, where the momentum is at.
From the first 13 games I’d say DC is 100% instinct, and his gut is wrong way too much. It’s maddening when the HC is actively impeding the team from winning a game.
Dizzy
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Vince Lombardi’s grandson
was shocked he got another OC job
he almost ruined Stafford
its one thing to not be retained but you have to really be a #### up get canned 7 weeks in
Dizzy
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Obviously the HC is the one who will take the most heat. Comes with the territory. Curious if you and most Chargers fans think the fault was more Brandon Staley or Joe Lombardi?
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ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Not a Chargers fan, but I think it depends on whether your issue is with the decision to go for it or the specific play calls. As I recall on one 4th down they had Parham open in the end zone and he dropped it as a result of suffering a scary head injury. On the one right before the half, they had Allen open but Sorensen made a great play to knock the ball away (or maybe Herbert took the wrong arm angle). Point being, in both cases they had a good play call but it didn't work out. Hard to fault Lombardi there.
As for the decision to go for it, a quick glance at the 4th down bot indicates that the numbers recommended that in every case, including a couple others where they converted. I think the only reason Staley is getting roasted is because they failed in some high-leverage situations and lost the game.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Well I get Staley is thinking....we can't trade FGs for TDs. But their D was playing at a high level, got Mahomes to turn it over twice. We talked about this in the game thread - there's a subtext when you take too many chances.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I agree with all expect 4 and goal right before half. Take the sure 3 and go up 7.
On the 4th an 1s I would sneak Herbert with the back pushing him every time.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Dizzy
Footballguy
Last night was one of those games that always reminds me why the Patriots continue to win and losers continue to lose. With this new wave of hot shot genius head coaches that are so creative with multiple formations, deceptive motions, aggressive to the point of nuttiness, and studying analytics… the Patriots focus on fundamentals, situational football, and winning.
Chargers should have won in a blowout last night. Coach threw it away.
Cardinals blew it on Monday with a number of questionable decisions.
Bill Belichick just kicks the FGs and racks up wins.
Chargers should have won in a blowout last night. Coach threw it away.
Cardinals blew it on Monday with a number of questionable decisions.
Bill Belichick just kicks the FGs and racks up wins.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Belichick has been at the center of plenty of controversial, aggressive decisions.
He pioneered a lot of it. He was going for it on 4th down before it was "cool".
Dizzy
Footballguy
Agreed, but last night, he absolutely would have taken the points on that first possession and in mid-game with his defense playing well would have kicked all those other FGs too.
Again, being aware of the game situation... nobody better at the KISS method.
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ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Since I know you are a fellow Child of the Possum, I’m sure you can guess what our favorite podcast host would say about that. (Hint: rhymes with “schmutch shmargument.”) Maybe it’s true, or maybe him showing faith in his team to convert pumps them up. (Certainly when the Ravens were doing it two years ago on their way to 14-2 no one was saying they were playing scared.) There’s no way to prove it either way. It’s just something people can cite to back up what they already believe
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Respectfully disagree, it’s not a crutch argument. It’s understanding how the mind of an athlete operates.
foh with the 2019 Ravens straw man. has zero to do with what went down last night.
(ftr I think I’ve heard Harris pod 1-2 times this year. only so many hours in a week & I moved on.)
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I cited the Patriots in the game thread with folks talking about analytics. BB has the run game working, the defense on lockdown, and they’ve been able to control games. You know what fits that profile? Free points. NE would probably have had 3 TD and the easy 4-5 FGs. So they would have had 33-36 points and KC probably would have had 14-17 points when the Chiefs had their last drive. Whether they got a garbage time TD with seconds left wouldn’t have mattered.
Yenrub
Footballguy
That’s the one that I disagreed with. If the coach was so worried about the “high powered” KC offense why not go up 7 right before the half knowing that KC was going to get the ball to start the 2nd half?
that was the only one I even remotely second guessed, and TBH didn't think it a no brainer by any stretch. I get it and he doesn't remotely deserve the roasting he's gotten in some circles. Fourth and 1 inside the opponents 10...go for it almost every time! The only exception would be if 3 puts you in the lead late or MAYBE if your QB and RB are both gimpy.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Fault was on the players for not executing. Strategy was correct, and the play calls were good. TEs dropped the ball, and Herbert’s gotta get that ball past the DE on that last one. Should have been 3 TDs.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Well, the argument would be if you’re worried about a high powered offense you need to maximize your points, and the EPA if you go for it is higher than the 3 points from kicking the FG (probably more like 2.95 since you could miss). I don’t know the exact number in that situation, but I do know the 4th down bot recommend going for it so I would assume it was EPA+
DropKick
Footballguy
I've said this exact same thing, maybe even earlier in this very thread. He plays it hoyle and let's everyone else outsmart themselves.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Yep. There’s a website that tracks this stuff (I can’t remember it right now) and Staley is ranked #1 in the NFL at making these decisions.
Why are you defending this guy or even rooting for this team? It's like rooting for your wife to get to frisky with me every Sunday.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I honestly don't even understand what the critique of Staley is from that game. Was there something specific about the instances where he went for it on fourth down that made them particularly disadvantageous? The only thing I've seen is that "you should take the points before halftime", which doesn't make sense to me since points scored right before halftime count the same as points scored at just about any other time. Is the critique that it's OK to go for it sometimes, but Staley does it too often? That doesn't make sense, either; if going for it has a higher EPA, then logic would suggest the more often you go for it, the more likely you are to see a regression to the mean (which is to say a positive result).
Nothing I've heard in the past few days has convinced me that the only reason Staley is getting criticized is because he got bad results in a couple high-leverage situations in a nationally televised game that his team ended up losing.
rockaction
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Bill Barnwell used to go after teams all the time for this. I don't wish injuries on any NFL player, but one day a RB is going to blow out his knee on a meaningless draw before halftime, and when it happens, I hope teams will finally figure out that if you're not going to try to score in that situation, there is no reason to run a play
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Also, can't remember who I saw making this point, but why the hell are fans complaining? I'm not talking about Chargers fans; I get why they might be a little salty about losing the game, although they should be glad that they have one of the brighter young minds in the league. But if you're just a football fan with no particular rooting interest, would you really prefer a game in which teams kick chippy FGs on 4th and goal or one filled with high-pressure conversion attempts?
Tau837
Footballguy
They showed the reason for doing this on the last play before the two minute warning to end the game, when Taylor broke a 67 yard TD run to seal the game.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Exactly. Runs like Taylor’s late in the game are fairly common. Never seen it happen before the half
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I have my issues with the Rotoworld blurbsters, but I think it's hilarious that they wrote an entire entry just to slam Kingsbury for that call:
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