Godsbrother
Footballguy
Asking for a link is aggressive? I'll bail out of the discussion, I didn't mean to offend.
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QB Baker Mayfield, TB (3 Viewers)
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Asking for a link is aggressive? I'll bail out of the discussion, I didn't mean to offend.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I can't think of a better team for Baker to be on right here right now than the Pittsburgh Steelers, in fact it's not silly at all my friend. I don't logically believe that Cleveland will allow this to happen but if he's as bad as they feel he is, should be no problem to send him on his way to Pittsburgh...however in rival Division not gonna happen.
But Pittsburgh is the first team i thought of, just popped right up as a great landing spot. Plus Baker will have an axe to grind and 2 games vs Cleveland every year, the TV ratings the first season alone as he chops down the DeShaun Watson tree that has suddenly been planted in his backyard.
It's a juicy novel, please let us flesh it out for a bit.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Uh huh...really you say? Let's start thinking about summer press conferences and the other 50+ players on the roster, all the questions will be about the QB situation.
-Name one time in NFL history a team has traded for a big upgrade at QB and kept the starter around from the prior season...I'm sure it's happened but I can't think of a single one.
-If Baker can be had for a 3rd-4th-5th I would bet the HOUSE that a team would trade for him.
I can put his number up, maybe that would help but he's not as bad as folks like to claim. He was hurt much of last season and he had a very high QBR 2 of his first 3 seasons.
27-14 TD/Int ratio his rookie year with...who was the Head Coach there?
In 2020 he managed 26 TDs vs 8 Int, Cleveland went 11-5 and made the Playoffs for the first time in ages...that's on his resume along with crybaby and immature but it's still splashed across the top of his resume. Took the Browns into the Playoffs as their QB, that's a fact no matter how you want to weigh his contributions to the Browns.
He brings a lot of experience and has been in a lot of games now for a young developing arm and mind. I would want Miami to part with a 4th and see what he's got, we've wasted so many selections, even if it just motivated Tua to blow him away in camp all summer.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Baker is done in Cleveland. Done like last week's pot roast. He'll never play another snap with the Browns.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I also would trade for Baker Mayfield and then ship him to Pittsburgh immediately just to piss the Browns off and send a quiet message from the other 31 owners...but we know they won't do any of that.
If I were Ross I would trade a 4th for Baker and then turn around and ship him to Pittsburgh for not a lot more and give Baker a chance to get on the field and stick to Cleveland...or he might flop which would be fun to watch as well.
I'm just trying to enjoy the popcorn and beer here.
If I were Ross I would trade a 4th for Baker and then turn around and ship him to Pittsburgh for not a lot more and give Baker a chance to get on the field and stick to Cleveland...or he might flop which would be fun to watch as well.
I'm just trying to enjoy the popcorn and beer here.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
100% in your camp on this but I got quite a pushback from unnamed posters when I went into deep detail about why Baker is never gonna take a snap again and we read things like
"He's got no leverage"
"He'll do what Cleveland tells him to"
and a lot of other nonsense when we know the way the media and the NFL will want this to play out. Sure the Browns could technically keep Baker on the roster but it makes for a toxic work environment. Anyone operating under delusions of grandeur and thinks Baker will start Weeks 1 thru 8 games and possibly the season while Watson is serving his suspension is misinformed IMHO. He'll do what Watson did if he must but he will never line up and take a snap at QB for the Browns again, I agree with you.
And there's plenty of teams that will trade for him at the right price, yes the Browns are not going to get full retail price for him but they should try and salvage with a conditional 3rd that turns into a 2nd, think there are a number of teams that would do that deal immediately. You go down to a 4th or 5th and the entire NFL, maybe even teams with starters would want to bring him in for a year as a strong back up and perhaps change the arc of what they are doing at QB.
What do the Bucs do when Brady really leaves or has to take a week off during the season? Lot of teams would want him at a certain price point.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
If you are Baker you want to be released right? Wouldn't he get his 18 million plus then he signs a contract?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
This part is correct, he's got less than zero leverage. None. He can't do anything other than make a stink and that would NOT be in his best interest since the Browns hold the cards and would sit his butt all year.
As I said, nothing is going to happen now. First window is after the draft when a team won't be able to draft the QB they wanted but Baker is still rehabbing so I don't think anything happens until late summer.
Unadulterated clickbait BS, lol.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I am in the camp of the Browns have got to get Baker out of town quickly...after the Draft? I don't see that happening, the media and press and Baker's social media account won't allow that to happen without some pretty amazingly awful optics. Players watch how these things are handled and it impacts future players/contracts as well.
-They are paying Watson $1M in salary, the MoP quite frankly thinks its genius since he is likely to be suspended but it also has very bad optics and it's antagonistic towards the NFL Front Office, specifically Roger Goodell. Just being honest about how it looks or might look.
Imagine in a week or two that Baker is still in Cleveland but knows he is not going to start a game again for them, whether they want you to or not. Think of all the reporters at ESPN with nothing but time on their hands it would seem these days...especially the ones who like to run the "Human Emotion" side of the stories with very little meat, they'll jump on a chance to interview Baker or someone close to him with inside information.
I think Cleveland stand a better chance in 2022 if they part with Baker quickly and not drag this out. Find a suitor, maybe you get back a conditional 2nd or 3rd but still ship a 4th or 5th back with him, whatever it takes but there is a market for Baker, I don't believe he has zero value.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
it might be happening with the 2022 49ers. They sold the farm for Lance, and might be keeping JimmyG.
Different, complex circumstances, sure - but it is an example.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This is his ideal outcome right now. Then he controls his destiny.
Seatt-er, some team could sign him on the cheap.
massraider
Footballguy
You mean like Joe Random from YouTube podcast no one has heard of? Like that kind of clickbait?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Rookies are different IMO. We see most teams try and Draft a rookie and also have a Vet holding the reigns until they are ready.it might be happening with the 2022 49ers. They sold the farm for Lance, and might be keeping JimmyG.
Different, complex circumstances, sure - but it is an example.
A No 1 overall pick watching a fellow competitor signed to $230M guaranteed and then asked to possibly stay on to take the hits for him while he serves a suspension that the team financially rigged in his favor over sexual assault allegations, not sure I've seen that one yet but we are going to continue to watch this unfold.
Imagine the Browns miss the Playoffs this year, is that possible?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sitting Baker Mayfield out of spite while starting Jacoby Brissett would be a strategy that I'm sure Houston is on board with. 
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
No, No, No
He CONTROLS his own destiny?
Baker wanted to play for Indianapolis, how'd that work out for Destiny's Child?
The guy YOU hadn't heard of is Joe Random when Steeler fan agreed saying Serino is a credible source? You haven't heard of him. Who else haven't you heard of? I'm sure its a small Joe Random list.
Saint
Footballguy
It will be interesting to see what they do. Right now, the Browns signed Jacoby Brissett and shipped Keenum to Buffalo. So they have Watson, Mayfield, Brissett. It's not improbable to think Watson will get some type of suspension yet. Which would leave them with Mayfield and Brissett and Mayfield wants out....
... so I really didn't understand why they traded Keenum. I think the Browns are in a worst position now after making that deal. I agree with MOP that if CLE is asking for a 3-4-5 deal, there will absolutely be teams that will take a chance on him. The reality he is more of a game manager (aka Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, type) and that's the type of comp he'll get. I just don't think the Browns will move him unless they get another backup to Brissett.
If they don't move him, then I would think they may have an inkling that a suspension is coming and they need Mayfield around. Personally I think Mayfield should show up and ball out as he needs to play well if he hopes to get a good contract for his next term somewhere else. We'll see what happens, but it is definitely not in Mayfield's best interest to throw a temper tantrum. He needs to man up and play.
... so I really didn't understand why they traded Keenum. I think the Browns are in a worst position now after making that deal. I agree with MOP that if CLE is asking for a 3-4-5 deal, there will absolutely be teams that will take a chance on him. The reality he is more of a game manager (aka Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, type) and that's the type of comp he'll get. I just don't think the Browns will move him unless they get another backup to Brissett.
If they don't move him, then I would think they may have an inkling that a suspension is coming and they need Mayfield around. Personally I think Mayfield should show up and ball out as he needs to play well if he hopes to get a good contract for his next term somewhere else. We'll see what happens, but it is definitely not in Mayfield's best interest to throw a temper tantrum. He needs to man up and play.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
At the risk of sounding aggressive do you have link for this? I don't recall saying Serino was credible and in fact have never heard of the guy.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Maybe instead of saying Mayfield>>>>>>>Trubisky, I should have said we have seen everything we need to see out of Trubisky. There is zero chance he pulls a Tannehill and resurrects his career. Mayfield on the other hand has delivered eye-test value over replacement, and I'm not going to trust the evaluation of the Cleveland Browns organization to determine if he has potential to grow. Maybe I'm being a romantic, but I think it would be pretty cool to see him elevate the Steelers to be a push or better versus the Bengals.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Not sure anyone is gonna trade for Baker right now when he wont even pass a physical.
Its gonna be a holding pattern for a while no matter what
Its gonna be a holding pattern for a while no matter what
Grahamburn
Footballguy
NFL teams are finally starting to realize either you have a top tier QB or you don’t. At least some of them (Looking at you Minnesota and Washington).
There’s no winning with average QB play anymore.
Why trade assets and go 8-9 with Mayfield just so you can miss out on top tier QB prospects in the 2023 draft?
Mayfield is NFL QB Hell, and all that can be had for $18M on a one year deal? He’s not going to have much of a market, and definitely not a top pick or multiple picks market.
And you gotta love the Browns’ fans trying to drum one up for him all while saying he should play nice when the QB they just traded for did exactly the opposite and got what he wanted. A ticket out of town
Baker gets his money regardless. There’s no incentive for him to help the Browns’ organization in any way. They’ll likely just have to release him and eat the cap hit.
There’s no winning with average QB play anymore.
Why trade assets and go 8-9 with Mayfield just so you can miss out on top tier QB prospects in the 2023 draft?
Mayfield is NFL QB Hell, and all that can be had for $18M on a one year deal? He’s not going to have much of a market, and definitely not a top pick or multiple picks market.
And you gotta love the Browns’ fans trying to drum one up for him all while saying he should play nice when the QB they just traded for did exactly the opposite and got what he wanted. A ticket out of town
Baker gets his money regardless. There’s no incentive for him to help the Browns’ organization in any way. They’ll likely just have to release him and eat the cap hit.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I apologize, I went back to read your post where you quoted my post, I mistakenly thought you had heard of Serino and were agreeing.
What he had been saying for months became a headline by a different reporter who has been a beat writer for decades. I think you've heard of MKC.
I think you 'can' win with a mid-level QB, like a top 12-15. If you build a solid team around a 'decent' QB, I think you can win.
It is interesting that with just about every team selling-out to land a top-flight QB and skewing team contracts to the QB, look at the Steelers who are doing just the opposite.
>>>> LINK NFL team Positional Spending
They are spending FAR LESS on offense than any other NFL team.
They are spending FAR MORE on defense than any other NFL team.
I think that if you get 'solid' top 12-15 QB play that you CAN win.
I'm not sure they can get that with Trubisky but I think if they got 'that sort' of play that they could win.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Grahamburn said:
Seriously?? Other teams will surely look at his behavior when considering a contract in the future. Baker isnt a good enough player to act like a jerk and still get some big contract. If he is proving to be a headache, he may never get signed again at all because of it.
So yeah, there is PLENTY of incentive for Baker to be professional and even PLAY for the Browns if need be.
I think it is fine that he asked to be traded. That alone in March isnt a huge issue IMO. A player wanting to start somewhere is very common. But if he actively makes things difficult that ABSOLUTELY affects Bakers future.
I 100% agree with the bolded, but I'd disagree with your first sentence.Grahamburn said:
SF has been in the NFC title game, and in the Super Bowl in the last 3 seasons, with a mediocre QB. They likely win both Super Bowls if they had even a good QB (like Cousins for example) and a few years back the final 4 featured teams starting Tom Brady, Blake Bortles, Case Keenum, and Nick Foles.
QB play is the most important thing in football, no disagreement there, but I don't think its everything. You can certainly win with just good QB play, and if the rest of the team is great enough, even with mediocre QB play. I don't see Mayfield as QB Hell. I think he's in that 2nd tier of starters, like Cousins, or Ryan, or even Stafford. He's at the bottom of that tier, but that's a valuable tier.
I think Mayfield really falls victim to unfair expectations. The Browns were so starved for good QB play, and a playoff season, that when they got it, they had no idea how to react. They assumed their team was far better than it was, and that they would naturally improve in 2021, even though they caught almost every possible break in 2020. They went 7-2 in 1 score games in 2021, that was always gonna regress.
Watson is obviously an upgrade (on the field anyway) but he'd be an upgrade from almost every QB in the NFL, including the guy who just won the Super Bowl, but its crazy how much of a hit Mayfield has taken for things outside of his control, and for playing hurt (like a good teammate/leader would) part of wonders what Mayfield's perception would be if he had just gone on IR in week 3? I think he'd be held in higher regard even though, logically, that is dumb.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
i agree - this is not a non-factor. The tweets do not endear him to potential suitors.
Why else would ATL try to resurrect MM over getting Mayfield on the cheap?
Seattle still hasn’t come calling to my knowledge.
INDY never once showed interest (though they were verified as being after both MM & JimmyG).
Maturity matters to NFL teams. Coaches want coachable players.
I don’t know Mayfield personally, but his “goodbye cruel world” tweet was not a sign of a mature player. It may make a difference in whether he is considered employable, or coachable.
And as you suggest, there’s a “talent” to “what people will put up with” scale. Mayfield falls short on the talent side of it, at least for the people who make these decisions.
In Atlanta's case in particular, I'm becoming pretty convinced they are drafting Malik Willis. Mariota is a bridge, who can/will be easily pushed aside when Willis is ready. With the Ryan trade, the Falcons have 2nd and 3rd rounders, and pick at #8. Unless Willis is on the Lions radar at #2, I don't see anyone in their way.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Of course MM is a bridge, regardless of whether they draft Willis or wait until next year to draft Stroud or Young.
I’m not yet convinced a more than 1 QB is going in the 1st half of this year’s draft. I believe DET would be incredibly foolish to pass up an elite DL for a multi-year project QB at 2, when Goff just looked better than expected last year. That team had a lot of holes - QB shouldn’t be their top priority.
Texans or Panthers might do it, so I doubt Willis is there for ATL.
I don't see the Lions going QB at #2 either, could see it at #32 or #34.
I'd be shocked if the Texans went QB, especially at #3, and while its on the radar for Carolina, but I think they'll want to trade down and could still see them being in on Mayfield.
Could see Atlanta trading up, if they really want Willis though. They have more ammo than basically anybody.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I was alluding to the QB who your organization just signed to a fully guaranteed contract without even speaking to the women accusing him of sexual assault.
I guess Baker isn’t talented enough for that level of indifference.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
So CAR would rather have Cam again than make an offer to get Mayfield.
Huh
“Panther general manager Scott Fitterer said head coach Matt Rhule has talked to Cam Newton about returning to the team in 2022.
"It's gotta be a good fit for him. It's gotta be a good fit for us," Fitterer said in a Friday press conference. "The door's still open for us. We'll see where it goes." Thrust into one of the NFL's worst offenses in 2021, Newton was predictably terrible, posting the league's lowest completion rate over expected (CPOE) and the second lowest expected points added (EPA) per play. Only Mike Glennon was worse than Newton in 2021. Newton said in January that we won't play for a bad team in 2022, which would seem to eliminate the horrid Panthers from his options. At this point in his storied career, Newton, 32, is little more than a short-yardage and goal line gadget option for a contending team.”
Even I am a little surprised by this, and I am not high on Mayfield.
Huh
“Panther general manager Scott Fitterer said head coach Matt Rhule has talked to Cam Newton about returning to the team in 2022.
"It's gotta be a good fit for him. It's gotta be a good fit for us," Fitterer said in a Friday press conference. "The door's still open for us. We'll see where it goes." Thrust into one of the NFL's worst offenses in 2021, Newton was predictably terrible, posting the league's lowest completion rate over expected (CPOE) and the second lowest expected points added (EPA) per play. Only Mike Glennon was worse than Newton in 2021. Newton said in January that we won't play for a bad team in 2022, which would seem to eliminate the horrid Panthers from his options. At this point in his storied career, Newton, 32, is little more than a short-yardage and goal line gadget option for a contending team.”
Even I am a little surprised by this, and I am not high on Mayfield.
beer 30
Footballguy
CLE fan living in the Carolina's so I feel qualified to say, they love them some Cam down here. He's been washed up for about 4 years and they would happily keep giving him the keys to the Cadillac.
To be fair, the last reports out of Cleveland, is that the Browns are still asking for a 1st rounder, so I can see why no team is interested at that price, especially a team picking 6th.
Whenever the Browns actually get realistic about compensation expectations, which I assume will be close to the draft, or perhaps on draft day itself, teams will be interested.
Washed up Cam is probably still better than Darnold. At least with Cam the running game works, that's better than nothing.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This is basically what I saw. He tweeted his way out. I legit thought the Browns went back to the table and went all-in because Mayfield forced them into a corner, his demanding a trade to the Colts & his agent citing irreconcilable differences.
now he’s in limbo. Bang up job, Baker’s agent. Marcus Mariota & Mitch Trubisky are starters in the NFL & your boy isn’t.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
I keep coming back to, is he a starting NFL QB and young enough to build around? And the answer is yes. There are plenty of egotistical QBs in the NFL. I'd definitely be trying to get him on the cheap if he was willing to sign some kind of longer term deal for a reasonable amount. I'd rather have Baker over Wentz in WAS. This is why Martin Mayhew panicking and trading for Wentz is super annoying.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It seemingly has less to do with ego/talent and more to do with maturity.
Coaches want coachable players.
On rumor that his team was talking to Watson, Mayfield wrote a lengthy self-pitying goodbye tweet to fans of the team. His agent followed that up with a statement (from Mayfield) citing irreconcilable differences.
At that point he was still the starting QB for the team. It was a bad, bad look.
In a world where there are exactly 32 jobs for what one does, it’s often wise to be more tactful and less impulsive.
Teams notice when you’re not. Coaches do, too. And while at his very best he might be a starting caliber QB in the NFL, his talent isn’t so great that any team is willing to put up with that nonsense for it. There’s always a ratio.
And look at JimmyG, Matt Ryan, heck, even Drew Lock! Or when Mariota was demoted for Tannehill. Did any of those dudes go on a Twitter rant? Nope. They’re professional football players who handled their business in that manner.
So to your 1st rhetorical, “is he a starting QB in the NFL”, I’d say maybe. Probably, if healthy & focused.
To your 2nd “is he young enough to build around?” it’s difficult to answer, because “young” is only one criteria. Is he good enough to build a team around? I’m not yet convinced of that.
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Agree with this, and especially the Wentz trade, since Wentz isn't a good QB.
Wentz is the guy you settle on after all the other options have been exhausted, its crazy that he was seemingly plan A.
We've been around the bend on this, but Mayfield's twitter goodbye was hardly a rant, and probably has nothing to do with his current status. The Browns wanting a 1st round pick for a QB they don't want to keep is the issue.
As a side note, the Browns leaking negative stuff about Mayfield makes them the biggest idiots in all of this. All they did was hurt their own trade compensation.
The conspiracy theorist in me, thinks their is nothing seriously wrong with Mayfield's personality, and this is all stuff being put out to help justify trading for Watson. As an off field move anyway.
On field obviously Watson is better, but I think the idea of, "see Mayfield is a bad teammate, he's immature, he's not a good leader" or whatever, is to try and bury, or at least distract from the fact they traded for a potential sexual predator. We weren't hearing any of this stuff when the Browns were making the playoffs in 2020, or being talked about as a Super Bowl contender going into last year.
Team Chaos
Footballguy
I would agree with all of this. I can't say that I really follow the Browns closely enough to know everything that there is to know about Mayfield, but he has always seemed like a decent guy to me.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Joe Thomas agrees with me about it having a lot to do with his current status. I absolutely believe he oops’d his way out of a starting job.
The timing aligned perfectly. Browns were “officially” out on Watson. Then Baker did his public butt hurt display, his agent said he’d never play in CLE again, & suddenly the Browns are back at the negotiating table pushing all-in.
The timeline seems obvious.
Watson is likely a serial sexual predator (opinion) and Mayfield is quite immature.
Both of these things can be true.
But as I mentioned above, there’s a “talent” to “crap we’ll put up with” ratio, and Mayfield falls short, while Watson doesn’t.
Yes, that’s a sad statement about money, sports and sexual assault, but this isn’t the politics forum, so I’ll leave it at that.
amnesiac
beer is good
that’s bull####.
name a single Browns poster on this board who stated he was HOF 6 months ago.
daveR
Footballguy
It just doesn't jibe with the organization-of-integrity picture I have in my head. I don't see them "working the media" or "leaking negative publicity" at all. I suppose this might have come from a teammate, maybe.
