QB Caleb Williams, CHI (1 Viewer)

[miqws]

From nfl.com, predraft profile of Caleb Williams. The weaknesses still need addressing. Caleb holds the ball because it worked more often than not in high school and college. Habits, especially when they largely worked in the past, take time to break. Could be a bit bumpy early in the year, progress over the course of the season is what I am looking for. I think Ben Johnson is a coaching upgrade and will develop Williams but we shall see.

NFL.com prospect profile Caleb Williams

Strengths​

• Forced to keep his team in games with high-end production and did so.
• Better consistency projected with pro targets who separate.
• Rapid-fire transition from fake to throw on RPOs.
• Twitchy release helps generate heat on drive throws.
• Puts enough pace on the ball to challenge safeties to a variety of spots.
• Will reset his pocket to create better throwing angles.
• Much improved at getting air under deep throws in 2023.
• Touchdown-to-interception ratio of 46:1 in red zone since the start of 2022 season, per Pro Football Focus.
• Keeps his eyes and arm alive when leaving the pocket.
• Rare talent to feel pressure, escape and extend the play.

Weaknesses​

• Averse to playing throw-and-catch football on schedule.
• Eyes can become sticky and sluggish working through progressions.
• Must learn to throw with better anticipation/timing on the NFL level.
• Hero-ball mentality creates indecisiveness and inconsistent decision-making.
• Disconcerting deep-ball accuracy in QB-friendly offense.
• Will throw on the move unnecessarily rather than platform up.
• Passes up easy scramble yardage for more challenging throws.

 

[Ray_T]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

What's up with the misrepresentation, GM? I didn't call him a victim of anything. He did have three OCs last year, read into it what you will. Heck call him a coach killer if you think that's true. But don't argue against something I did not say, please.

All I said is I remember reading that patting the ball is a non issue and many great QBs do it.

Yeesh.

Settle down.

Why do you think he was sacked 68 times?

Because he held the ball too long. Not patting. Also his coaching sucked, the team wasn't great. The WRs and Caleb were not given timing routes, when to break on their routes and how many step drop each play was to be. It led to a TON of sacks.

Once the coaches got fired things improved down the stretch. I'd bet he takes less sacks this year.

Imagine operating an offense where the receivers and QB don't know the timing. DJ Moore was pissed last year too - why? Because of the fricken play calling and crappy coaching. He was done too.

well, they now have a very well regarded OC. so no excuses this year.

 

[Chaka]

You'd take mercurial, moody and all the family baggage over the magnanimous, gregarious, fun-loving Daniels?

Stated like that, of course you take Daniels. More importantly, after what we saw last season on the field, of course you take Daniels and that was the only point you needed to make.

On the personality front, the reality is we have no real idea who these guys are behind the scenes.

FWIW 1) Caleb seemed like a good dude on Hard Knocks. & 2) trying to engineer his landing spot is probably really appreciated in the locker room.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that all players would like much more say in where they get to play.

Dude......

If you asked two players in 2023 which organization they'd rather play for, Chicago or Washington, how many are picking the latter? That franchise was an abortion since Joe Gibbs left the 2nd time.

I like Caleb Williams quite a bit but his displayed personality underscores many troubling factors. Factor in his over bearing father and it is an easy decision for me to make on who I prefer to lead my franchise.

I honestly dont think Caleb did poorly. he just didnt light it up as a rookie like everyone was expecting. he played like a rookie because.... he was a rookie.

no disgrace in it. threw 3x more TD than he had INT. not many rookies can say that. and he did it while playing with an O line that was like swiss cheese.

if his decision making improves by .1 of a second and if his line improves even moderately I can see him having a fairly decent year.

I am not predicting top 5 but top 10-12 is very much within reach.

I wouldnt go betting against this kid yet. I fully acknowledge the Bears have not historically done a good job in developing young QB but I think this new OC they brought over from Detroit will get the job done for them.

If he cuts down on the sack rate and improves on his deep throws (he was awful there last year) he will make a major leap forward. But he has a lot of work to do and hopefully, he's done it.

IDK I'm not optimistic about his prospects this year. I heard he got a couple piercings this off-season. I'm thinking 72 sacks now.

I like the fingernail painting.

It's gotta go. Makes his hand too heavy, slows down his release leads to sacks.

 

[Chaka]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

What's up with the misrepresentation, GM? I didn't call him a victim of anything. He did have three OCs last year, read into it what you will. Heck call him a coach killer if you think that's true. But don't argue against something I did not say, please.

All I said is I remember reading that patting the ball is a non issue and many great QBs do it.

Yeesh.

Settle down.

Why do you think he was sacked 68 times?

Because he held the ball too long. Not patting. Also his coaching sucked, the team wasn't great. The WRs and Caleb were not given timing routes, when to break on their routes and how many step drop each play was to be. It led to a TON of sacks.

Once the coaches got fired things improved down the stretch. I'd bet he takes less sacks this year.

Imagine operating an offense where the receivers and QB don't know the timing. DJ Moore was pissed last year too - why? Because of the fricken play calling and crappy coaching. He was done too.

well, they now have a very well regarded OC. so no excuses this year.

Who's his hair stylist? Gotta know before we can determine who to blame for everything,

 

[Bri]

This is awful

House of Dysfunction, Part I: The Curious Case of Caleb Williams

Our series on the Chicago Bears begins with a look at the quarterback. His coaches from 2024 open up on a season from hell. ("There’s no substitute for the work. That’s something he needs to learn.")

www.golongtd.com

 

[Joe Bryant]

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Colin Cowherd made a large deal out of Ben Johnson talking up Bagent so strongly in the preseason while neutral at best for Williams.

I thought it was Cowherd being dramatic.

But maybe something to it.

Bagent winning the Kansas City preseason on the last clutch drive and pass was pretty interesting.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Gruden - Chris Simms vibes.

Playing QB is hard.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[rockaction]

This is awful

House of Dysfunction, Part I: The Curious Case of Caleb Williams

Our series on the Chicago Bears begins with a look at the quarterback. His coaches from 2024 open up on a season from hell. ("There’s no substitute for the work. That’s something he needs to learn.")

www.golongtd.com

I saw that on Sigmund Bloom's Twitter feed. That's absolutely . . . well, not shocking, but awful.

 

[Manster]

This is awful

House of Dysfunction, Part I: The Curious Case of Caleb Williams

Our series on the Chicago Bears begins with a look at the quarterback. His coaches from 2024 open up on a season from hell. ("There’s no substitute for the work. That’s something he needs to learn.")

www.golongtd.com

Wow….im so glad I got him as my back up in two leagues. Feeling really good about it right now

 

[General Malaise]

I get the feeling the Tyson Badgent signing was a whole lot bigger than the feel-good press conference the news provided.

 

[Ray_T]

I get the feeling the Tyson Badgent signing was a whole lot bigger than the feel-good press conference the news provided.

Hes a solid backup. not sure that any backup is an overly significant move. but certainly a good backup is better than a bad one. its just a slightly better insurance policy in my mind.

 

[Big Nate]

I get the feeling the Tyson Badgent signing was a whole lot bigger than the feel-good press conference the news provided.

Badgent is a solid back up for sure. He's played well but this is still Caleb's team. Bryce Young was written off and all of a sudden he's playing better by the end of his second year.

Players take time and the hate for Caleb from some is deeply rooted and those people won't and likely can't change their opinion. They will be mad forever and never allow Caleb a chance to improve - under a new and better coaching staff.

 

[Mitchie]

Keep in my mind that Ben Johnson had a choice of teams in the offseason, I'm sure he researched Caleb extensively. I highly doubt he chose Chicago because of Tyson Bagent.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

I've never heard of Tyler Dunne. He's not in any of the Bears reporting circles. His subscription-based site has 3 articles, which are the 3 parts of the series he talks about in the first article. So much of this hits the BS meter for me, mostly because none of it has been reported, ever. From go, Williams work ethic hasn't been in question. He (and many other Bears players) bit their tongue when Eberflus threw them under the bus game after game after game. Dude had to figure out how to watch NFL film by himself as a rookie. The list goes on and on.
Look, I get that Williams has warts. He can come off arrogant and off-putting to a lot of media sources. He get's the "muh masculinity!" crowd all riled up. But this piece (what I could read that wasn't behind a pay wall anyway), seems like a lot of conjecture and assumption hidden behind the magic curtain of "sources" in an attempt to rile up Bears fans and drum up subscriptions.

 

[Manster]

I get the feeling the Tyson Badgent signing was a whole lot bigger than the feel-good press conference the news provided.

Badgent is a solid back up for sure. He's played well but this is still Caleb's team. Bryce Young was written off and all of a sudden he's playing better by the end of his second year.

Players take time and the hate for Caleb from some is deeply rooted and those people won't and likely can't change their opinion. They will be mad forever and never allow Caleb a chance to improve - under a new and better coaching staff.

I didn’t like Caleb in college cuz he was at usc….beyond that, there have been numerous red flags. His dad trying to circumvent the nfl pay scale is one example.

The piece above is not a hit piece. It seems to show a trend, and the trend isn’t good. Do I hate the kid? Absolutely not. But I do have misgivings about his future as an NFL QB.

 

[FarFromHome]

It's crazy. You read this thread and you think his rookie numbers must have been similar to Ryan Leaf of Jamarcus Russell. Most agree Bears were a dumpster fire. End of season stats not bad for being a dumpster fire. Ben Johnson is going to be a light switch for this dude. Bump all below numbers 20%. It's math.

20 tds
6 ints
3541 yards
489 rushing yards
62% completion

 

[Manster]

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

I've never heard of Tyler Dunne. He's not in any of the Bears reporting circles. His subscription-based site has 3 articles, which are the 3 parts of the series he talks about in the first article. So much of this hits the BS meter for me, mostly because none of it has been reported, ever. From go, Williams work ethic hasn't been in question. He (and many other Bears players) bit their tongue when Eberflus threw them under the bus game after game after game. Dude had to figure out how to watch NFL film by himself as a rookie. The list goes on and on.
Look, I get that Williams has warts. He can come off arrogant and off-putting to a lot of media sources. He get's the "muh masculinity!" crowd all riled up. But this piece (what I could read that wasn't behind a pay wall anyway), seems like a lot of conjecture and assumption hidden behind the magic curtain of "sources" in an attempt to rile up Bears fans and drum up subscriptions.

Maybe there’s some BS there…..Caleb is a polarizing fella. I’m of the mind that where there’s smoke, there’s fire. If he becomes a great NFL QB, good for him. He has the supporting cast this season. We shall see.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

I've never heard of Tyler Dunne. He's not in any of the Bears reporting circles. His subscription-based site has 3 articles, which are the 3 parts of the series he talks about in the first article. So much of this hits the BS meter for me, mostly because none of it has been reported, ever. From go, Williams work ethic hasn't been in question. He (and many other Bears players) bit their tongue when Eberflus threw them under the bus game after game after game. Dude had to figure out how to watch NFL film by himself as a rookie. The list goes on and on.
Look, I get that Williams has warts. He can come off arrogant and off-putting to a lot of media sources. He get's the "muh masculinity!" crowd all riled up. But this piece (what I could read that wasn't behind a pay wall anyway), seems like a lot of conjecture and assumption hidden behind the magic curtain of "sources" in an attempt to rile up Bears fans and drum up subscriptions.

Maybe there’s some BS there…..Caleb is a polarizing fella. I’m of the mind that where there’s smoke, there’s fire. If he becomes a great NFL QB, good for him. He has the supporting cast this season. We shall see.

That's just it. There's no smoke other than this article behind a paywall. All other accounts, from players, beat writers, national media, etc have been the exact opposite of this article with regards to attitude and work ethic. Williams may not become a great QB, and that's very TBD at this point in time, but I doubt this author has a clue to any of the inner workings of the 2024 Bears team.

 

[Bri]

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

I've never heard of Tyler Dunne. He's not in any of the Bears reporting circles. His subscription-based site has 3 articles, which are the 3 parts of the series he talks about in the first article. So much of this hits the BS meter for me, mostly because none of it has been reported, ever. From go, Williams work ethic hasn't been in question. He (and many other Bears players) bit their tongue when Eberflus threw them under the bus game after game after game. Dude had to figure out how to watch NFL film by himself as a rookie. The list goes on and on.
Look, I get that Williams has warts. He can come off arrogant and off-putting to a lot of media sources. He get's the "muh masculinity!" crowd all riled up. But this piece (what I could read that wasn't behind a pay wall anyway), seems like a lot of conjecture and assumption hidden behind the magic curtain of "sources" in an attempt to rile up Bears fans and drum up subscriptions.

Probably not true dude. Ya just forget.
He covered the Bills and Packers.

With newspapers dying (as if we have yet another burst of it the last 5 years) reporters are creating their own sites and substacks and such.

ETA-

Tyler Dunne

Visit the post for more.

www.hachettebookgroup.com

See?
Plus his article had the most reads ever on Bleacher Report

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

I've never heard of Tyler Dunne. He's not in any of the Bears reporting circles. His subscription-based site has 3 articles, which are the 3 parts of the series he talks about in the first article. So much of this hits the BS meter for me, mostly because none of it has been reported, ever. From go, Williams work ethic hasn't been in question. He (and many other Bears players) bit their tongue when Eberflus threw them under the bus game after game after game. Dude had to figure out how to watch NFL film by himself as a rookie. The list goes on and on.
Look, I get that Williams has warts. He can come off arrogant and off-putting to a lot of media sources. He get's the "muh masculinity!" crowd all riled up. But this piece (what I could read that wasn't behind a pay wall anyway), seems like a lot of conjecture and assumption hidden behind the magic curtain of "sources" in an attempt to rile up Bears fans and drum up subscriptions.

Probably not true dude. Ya just forget.
He covered the Bills and Packers.

With newspapers dying (as if we have yet another burst of it the last 5 years) reporters are creating their own sites and substacks and such.

ETA-

Tyler Dunne

Visit the post for more.

www.hachettebookgroup.com

See?
Plus his article had the most reads ever on Bleacher Report

You know those circles better than I do, but as far as I can tell he's never covered the Bears in print or digital media.

 

[Bri]

Caleb

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

I've never heard of Tyler Dunne. He's not in any of the Bears reporting circles. His subscription-based site has 3 articles, which are the 3 parts of the series he talks about in the first article. So much of this hits the BS meter for me, mostly because none of it has been reported, ever. From go, Williams work ethic hasn't been in question. He (and many other Bears players) bit their tongue when Eberflus threw them under the bus game after game after game. Dude had to figure out how to watch NFL film by himself as a rookie. The list goes on and on.
Look, I get that Williams has warts. He can come off arrogant and off-putting to a lot of media sources. He get's the "muh masculinity!" crowd all riled up. But this piece (what I could read that wasn't behind a pay wall anyway), seems like a lot of conjecture and assumption hidden behind the magic curtain of "sources" in an attempt to rile up Bears fans and drum up subscriptions.

Probably not true dude. Ya just forget.
He covered the Bills and Packers.

With newspapers dying (as if we have yet another burst of it the last 5 years) reporters are creating their own sites and substacks and such.

ETA-

Tyler Dunne

Visit the post for more.

www.hachettebookgroup.com

See?
Plus his article had the most reads ever on Bleacher Report

You know those circles better than I do, but as far as I can tell he's never covered the Bears in print or digital media.

Nah, Packers and Bills

 

[Manster]

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

I've never heard of Tyler Dunne. He's not in any of the Bears reporting circles. His subscription-based site has 3 articles, which are the 3 parts of the series he talks about in the first article. So much of this hits the BS meter for me, mostly because none of it has been reported, ever. From go, Williams work ethic hasn't been in question. He (and many other Bears players) bit their tongue when Eberflus threw them under the bus game after game after game. Dude had to figure out how to watch NFL film by himself as a rookie. The list goes on and on.
Look, I get that Williams has warts. He can come off arrogant and off-putting to a lot of media sources. He get's the "muh masculinity!" crowd all riled up. But this piece (what I could read that wasn't behind a pay wall anyway), seems like a lot of conjecture and assumption hidden behind the magic curtain of "sources" in an attempt to rile up Bears fans and drum up subscriptions.

Maybe there’s some BS there…..Caleb is a polarizing fella. I’m of the mind that where there’s smoke, there’s fire. If he becomes a great NFL QB, good for him. He has the supporting cast this season. We shall see.

That's just it. There's no smoke other than this article behind a paywall. All other accounts, from players, beat writers, national media, etc have been the exact opposite of this article with regards to attitude and work ethic. Williams may not become a great QB, and that's very TBD at this point in time, but I doubt this author has a clue to any of the inner workings of the 2024 Bears team.

So all the other “stuff” has just been made up?

 

[Chaka]

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

Yeah, that does sound bad.

It also reinforces the notion that the coaching was terrible. Can you imagine Dan Campbell letting that happen? Can you imagine any, marginally successful NFL coach sitting by and not 1) telling the QB to learn the cadences 2) making sure the OC and QB coach live in Caleb's ear all-day, every-day? Again, they had their rookie hopefully franchise QB breaking down NFL film by himself. That tracks with this article.

Terrible coaching + no discipline = New coaching staff

 

[Chaka]

Agreed @Bri

Ty Dunne with a rough three-part piece on Caleb Williams.

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting. I don't know Ty Dunne well but I don't think this is that.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/house-of-dysfunction-part-i-the-curious

Williams struggled to execute elementary tasks. Every day was a new disaster.

That early, that spring, the Bears changed the snap count to appease Williams. Instead of using a combination of colors and numbers like every other team in the NFL, the Bears reverted to a “Ready, set, go!” straight out of JV football because that’s what the quarterback requested. Aside from the obvious on-field consequences — defenders could tee off — the Bears were establishing a troubling precedent in allowing a rookie to tell them exactly what to do. Veterans couldn’t believe it. “Are you ****ting me?” one receiver asked a coach.

When a play call was sent in, he’d stare at this wristband for a painful length of time. “Like it was in another language,” another coach says. Williams verbalized the call in the huddle, it was wrong half the time, and then players would be lined up wrong all over the field. Verbiage was truncated. Huddling was minimized. The playbook, dumbed down. The Bears offense devolved into an exercise of trial and error to fit whatever the USC rookie demanded.

There has to be video from last year where we can hear Caleb under center.

 

[Faust]

Ben Devine
There are some coaches with hurt reputations actively going at Caleb Williams now. I choose to believe Ben Johnson, not the scorned former Bears coaches. I’m rooting harder for Caleb than ever! #DaBears

https://x.com/chicago_nfl/status/1964091703066833289?s=61

 

[Faust]

Bill Zimmerman
I know a lot of Bears fans want to brush off the @TyDunne article. I get it, it's damning on multiple levels.

If you want to believe it's fired former employees that have an agenda, go ahead, I'm sure there's some truth there.

However, Ty is a true journalist. This was well-sourced. The stories are not made up, there are clearly issues.

If you want to say Ben Johnson and the new regime will solve these issues, that's fine, that can absolutely happen, but you can't brush off the 2024 year like there weren't countless mistakes made.

There's a reason this team collapsed.

https://x.com/billtzimmerman/status/1964101739402908020?s=61

 

[Bri]

He said some cruddy things about Oklahoma after he left to go to OU. Gist of it is he's so great they crumbled without him. When he argued with Rattler thru the press he always took this I'm great look at me now, where are you" position.
I didn't think anything of this.
OU being decimated was such a huge deal that there were a zillion quotes from a zillion people.
I am somewhat OK with he and Rattler arguing. You should want to be the starter. Bad blood isn't so surprising. (I definitely prefer good sportsmanship but I mean I get the other POV)

So I didn't think much of this or much of that. Most people don't realize how many college athletes think their hot stuff.

The only reason I'm even bringing this up is because- I think it fits that he would be too hot stuff to listen to a lowly interim coach.

******

Jayden got all the love, not him. His team stunk. I do think it's reasonable he ate some crow.
Ben was a famous OC that turned down jobs the year before. One of the first things he pointed out was how poorly developed Caleb was and that they'd be starting from scratch like he was a rookie again.
I can't imagine arrogance in year two. Not one bit.
Bagent doing so well during the off-season has to keep him in check too.
*****
Sheduer has had to eat crow. He's still a good kid but less arrogant.
*****
How's Levis feeling?
*****
Remember when Fields had an arrogant air about him?
*****
I think this is just how it goes for some. The NFL has to take them down a peg and coaches have to rebuild them back up. It's quite common.
It's usually good for them too

 

[Chaka]

Bill Zimmerman
I know a lot of Bears fans want to brush off the @TyDunne article. I get it, it's damning on multiple levels.

If you want to believe it's fired former employees that have an agenda, go ahead, I'm sure there's some truth there.

However, Ty is a true journalist. This was well-sourced. The stories are not made up, there are clearly issues.

If you want to say Ben Johnson and the new regime will solve these issues, that's fine, that can absolutely happen, but you can't brush off the 2024 year like there weren't countless mistakes made.

There's a reason this team collapsed.

https://x.com/billtzimmerman/status/1964101739402908020?s=61

These issues feel like lack of discipline from Caleb and the coaching staff. The latter is far more damning and is further evidence of how in over their heads they were.

 

[rockaction]

Bill Zimmerman
I know a lot of Bears fans want to brush off the @TyDunne article. I get it, it's damning on multiple levels.

If you want to believe it's fired former employees that have an agenda, go ahead, I'm sure there's some truth there.

However, Ty is a true journalist. This was well-sourced. The stories are not made up, there are clearly issues.

If you want to say Ben Johnson and the new regime will solve these issues, that's fine, that can absolutely happen, but you can't brush off the 2024 year like there weren't countless mistakes made.

There's a reason this team collapsed.

https://x.com/billtzimmerman/status/1964101739402908020?s=61

These issues feel like lack of discipline from Caleb and the coaching staff. The latter is far more damning and is further evidence of how in over their heads they were.

Dude, the introduction to that article is ugly and it ain't the coaches. I get that people can hold vendettas against a guy. I mean, a coach can just loathe a guy. But see what Dennis Allen tried to do to Kendre Miller and the staff saw it and there were leaks questioning Allen. This sounds like thirty or so. people all got put through the ringer and are pretty unified in telling the story. That is rare.

 

[Chaka]

Bill Zimmerman
I know a lot of Bears fans want to brush off the @TyDunne article. I get it, it's damning on multiple levels.

If you want to believe it's fired former employees that have an agenda, go ahead, I'm sure there's some truth there.

However, Ty is a true journalist. This was well-sourced. The stories are not made up, there are clearly issues.

If you want to say Ben Johnson and the new regime will solve these issues, that's fine, that can absolutely happen, but you can't brush off the 2024 year like there weren't countless mistakes made.

There's a reason this team collapsed.

https://x.com/billtzimmerman/status/1964101739402908020?s=61

These issues feel like lack of discipline from Caleb and the coaching staff. The latter is far more damning and is further evidence of how in over their heads they were.

Dude, the introduction to that article is ugly and it ain't the coaches. I get that people can hold vendettas against a guy. I mean, a coach can just loathe a guy. But see what Dennis Allen tried to do to Kendre Miller and the staff saw it and there were leaks questioning Allen. This sounds like thirty or so. people all got put through the ringer and are pretty unified in telling the story. That is rare.

Dude, you've been saying "dude" a lot lately. Are you a rancher?


I'm not forgiving Caleb for anything, and I think my post was clear about that. Caleb should have been more professional in that moment and, throughout the off-season. But he wasn't and the coaching staff should have identified that right away.

Thomas Brown was right to be livid in week 17 but, a moment in week 17 and some vague comments about Shane Waldron don't say much more than how terrible the coaching staff was from the jump.

As I said above, do you think Dan Campbell (or any marginally successful coach) would let a rookie QB change the cadence at any point? Absolutely not.

The staff created the environment for that lost season, not Caleb. Caleb acted like the unrestrained person he has always been allowed to be. Go figure.

Like any immature person with an overinflated sense of self worth, Caleb pushed boundaries, which we all wish he wouldn't do (but no one should be surprised when it happens with these guys).

So, yes Caleb was absolutely wrong from the jump and in week 17 but, it's further evidence about how in over their heads the coaching staff was.

Both Caleb and the coaching staff can be wrong but, it's the responsibility of the coaching staff to teach Caleb how to be a professional, not the other way around.

 

[rockaction]

Bill Zimmerman
I know a lot of Bears fans want to brush off the @TyDunne article. I get it, it's damning on multiple levels.

If you want to believe it's fired former employees that have an agenda, go ahead, I'm sure there's some truth there.

However, Ty is a true journalist. This was well-sourced. The stories are not made up, there are clearly issues.

If you want to say Ben Johnson and the new regime will solve these issues, that's fine, that can absolutely happen, but you can't brush off the 2024 year like there weren't countless mistakes made.

There's a reason this team collapsed.

https://x.com/billtzimmerman/status/1964101739402908020?s=61

These issues feel like lack of discipline from Caleb and the coaching staff. The latter is far more damning and is further evidence of how in over their heads they were.

Dude, the introduction to that article is ugly and it ain't the coaches. I get that people can hold vendettas against a guy. I mean, a coach can just loathe a guy. But see what Dennis Allen tried to do to Kendre Miller and the staff saw it and there were leaks questioning Allen. This sounds like thirty or so. people all got put through the ringer and are pretty unified in telling the story. That is rare.

Dude, you've been saying "dude" a lot lately. Are you a rancher?


I'm not forgiving Caleb for anything, and I think my post was clear about that. Caleb should have been more professional in that moment and, throughout the off-season. But he wasn't and the coaching staff should have identified that right away.

Thomas Brown was right to be livid in week 17 but, a moment in week 17 and some vague comments about Shane Waldron don't say much more than how terrible the coaching staff was from the jump.

As I said above, do you think Dan Campbell (or any marginally successful coach) would let a rookie QB change the cadence at any point? Absolutely not.

The staff created the environment for that lost season, not Caleb. Caleb acted like the unrestrained person he has always been allowed to be. Go figure.

Like any immature person with an overinflated sense of self worth, Caleb pushed boundaries, which we all wish he wouldn't do (but no one should be surprised when it happens with these guys).

So, yes Caleb was absolutely wrong from the jump and in week 17 but, it's further evidence about how in over their heads the coaching staff was.

Both Caleb and the coaching staff can be wrong but, it's the responsibility of the coaching staff to teach Caleb how to be a professional, not the other way around.

I wanna hear what the owner and GM were telling the coaches. It doesn't sound like they weren't dying to drop the hammer. Anyway, I wasn't able to read the whole thing. I'm tempted to shell out the eight bucks for the month. I get the feeling he's still trying to pull this garbage with the new coaches. It was weird when they signed Bagent for all that money and we got a quick answer that might point to why. And Johnson's presser last night where he said Caleb would sort of determine through his preparedness how much the coach trusts him with responsibility? Odd.

I will admit that I live in Southern California in the Inland Empire. I am not a Caleb fan. I think painting your nails into obscenities directed at another school or your opponent screams massive problem. I don't think I'm an old man yelling at clouds. It strikes me as anarchic, anti-social, attention grabbing, and that the young man has no sense of propriety, decency, and a whole ost of other things. I don't know. I remember thinking, "What a foul young man."

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Did I miss it, or do these coaches not have the balls to attach their name to their attacks? I mean, Caleb has his faults in and out of the huddle, but he was in a mess of a situation. Are we pretending like the Eberflus/Waldron combination wasn't a joke to begin with? Now we have some unnamed butt hurt coaches trashing the guy after the fact? GTFO of here with that nonsense. Ben Johnson is a leader. We'll see what Caleb is made of this season, but that article and story is Busch League at best.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't think I'm an old man yelling at clouds.

I mean, maybe a little

 

[rockaction]

Did I miss it, or do these coaches not have the balls to attach their name to their attacks? I mean, Caleb has his faults in and out of the huddle, but he was in a mess of a situation. Are we pretending like the Eberflus/Waldron combination wasn't a joke to begin with? Now we have some unnamed butt hurt coaches trashing the guy after the fact? GTFO of here with that nonsense. Ben Johnson is a leader. We'll see what Caleb is made of this season, but that article and story is Busch League at best.

I'm sure they're partially culpable. These guys are employed elsewhere and are remaining anonymous so they're not really CYA'ing it because nothing is rescuing their reps and that they blew it. I think that they had a ****ty owner and were coaching this guy with their hands tied behind their backs by their employer. Think owners aren't completely ****ty in football? The Jets owners' kids were running around the Jets' locker room after games last year grabbing the equipment and taking it upon themselves to hand out game balls. They cornered Mike White a couple of years ago and laced him with obscenities. I mean, when the owner of a billion dollar enterprise that you work for and depend on makes life hard for you by setting weird terms of employment, you're screwed.

Plenty of vindictive, lying, CYA'ing, sociopathic coaches who lie every time their their mouths move. Something tells me that this was Caleb.

 

[Chaka]

Bill Zimmerman
I know a lot of Bears fans want to brush off the @TyDunne article. I get it, it's damning on multiple levels.

If you want to believe it's fired former employees that have an agenda, go ahead, I'm sure there's some truth there.

However, Ty is a true journalist. This was well-sourced. The stories are not made up, there are clearly issues.

If you want to say Ben Johnson and the new regime will solve these issues, that's fine, that can absolutely happen, but you can't brush off the 2024 year like there weren't countless mistakes made.

There's a reason this team collapsed.

https://x.com/billtzimmerman/status/1964101739402908020?s=61

These issues feel like lack of discipline from Caleb and the coaching staff. The latter is far more damning and is further evidence of how in over their heads they were.

Dude, the introduction to that article is ugly and it ain't the coaches. I get that people can hold vendettas against a guy. I mean, a coach can just loathe a guy. But see what Dennis Allen tried to do to Kendre Miller and the staff saw it and there were leaks questioning Allen. This sounds like thirty or so. people all got put through the ringer and are pretty unified in telling the story. That is rare.

Dude, you've been saying "dude" a lot lately. Are you a rancher?


I'm not forgiving Caleb for anything, and I think my post was clear about that. Caleb should have been more professional in that moment and, throughout the off-season. But he wasn't and the coaching staff should have identified that right away.

Thomas Brown was right to be livid in week 17 but, a moment in week 17 and some vague comments about Shane Waldron don't say much more than how terrible the coaching staff was from the jump.

As I said above, do you think Dan Campbell (or any marginally successful coach) would let a rookie QB change the cadence at any point? Absolutely not.

The staff created the environment for that lost season, not Caleb. Caleb acted like the unrestrained person he has always been allowed to be. Go figure.

Like any immature person with an overinflated sense of self worth, Caleb pushed boundaries, which we all wish he wouldn't do (but no one should be surprised when it happens with these guys).

So, yes Caleb was absolutely wrong from the jump and in week 17 but, it's further evidence about how in over their heads the coaching staff was.

Both Caleb and the coaching staff can be wrong but, it's the responsibility of the coaching staff to teach Caleb how to be a professional, not the other way around.

I wanna hear what the owner and GM were telling the coaches. It doesn't sound like they weren't dying to drop the hammer. Anyway, I wasn't able to read the whole thing. I'm tempted to shell out the eight bucks for the month. I get the feeling he's still trying to pull this garbage with the new coaches. It was weird when they signed Bagent for all that money and we got a quick answer that might point to why. And Johnson's presser last night where he said Caleb would sort of determine through his preparedness how much the coach trusts him with responsibility? Odd.

I will admit that I live in Southern California in the Inland Empire. I am not a Caleb fan. I think painting your nails into obscenities directed at another school or your opponent screams massive problem. I don't think I'm an old man yelling at clouds. It strikes me as anarchic, anti-social, attention grabbing, and that the young man has no sense of propriety, decency, and a whole ost of other things. I don't know. I remember thinking, "What a foul young man."

I am a fan of Caleb, or I should say the idea of Caleb, but I pretty much agree with everything you said.

By no means do I think he's a lock for success and he clearly has a maturity issue. I do believe Ben Johnson hasn't been, and isn't going to to take crap from him. I think their dynamic is one of the most interesting storylines of this season.

I hope Caleb rises to the occasion and chooses to strive for greatness but, I think it's probably a 50-50 proposition at this point.

And, again I am a fan who thinks most of what I was able to read in that article (also won't pay to get behind the paywall) is on coaches and ownership.

 

[rockaction]

And, again I am a fan who thinks most of what I was able to read in that article (also won't pay to get behind the paywall) is on coaches and ownership

Fair enough and noted. I think we just have different visceral reactions to the young man and our blame goes to differing parties that undoubtedly share in the responsibility.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Did I miss it, or do these coaches not have the balls to attach their name to their attacks? I mean, Caleb has his faults in and out of the huddle, but he was in a mess of a situation. Are we pretending like the Eberflus/Waldron combination wasn't a joke to begin with? Now we have some unnamed butt hurt coaches trashing the guy after the fact? GTFO of here with that nonsense. Ben Johnson is a leader. We'll see what Caleb is made of this season, but that article and story is Busch League at best.

The Part II of the article delves into the process of evaluating the QB class.

Suffice it to say, Poles put his thumb on the scale for Caleb and that’s pretty much putting it kindly with those involved being somewhat incredulous as to how it was conducted.

So what this led to was a coaching staff that was admittedly WAY too docile (particularly Waldron) and knew that Caleb was the GM’s guy so Poles wouldn’t have their back.

I’m no fan of Flus/Waldron and quite frankly I’m glad Daniels/Maye have seemingly wound up in way better situations.

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

 

[cdclopper]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

 

[Mitchie]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

A good coach should be able to solve this problem (assuming Caleb is not a complete idiot which I don't think is the case). Jared Goff was overwhelmed his rookie year before McVay got there. Of course, Goff then got shipped off to Detroit... (where his coach just happened to be Ben Johnson)

 

[TampaMike19]

Keenan Allen still looks pretty good. He had some big games with Caleb but also some real clunkers as someone who is basically 7-11 (always open.) Not sure if the coaching staff or Caleb ruined him but there is some combination of the two probably.

 

[cdclopper]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

A good coach should be able to solve this problem (assuming Caleb is not a complete idiot which I don't think is the case). Jared Goff was overwhelmed his rookie year before McVay got there. Of course, Goff then got shipped off to Detroit... (where his coach just happened to be Ben Johnson)

The jury is still out on whether Caleb Williams is a complete idiot or not. Or willing to be coached period.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Keenan Allen still looks pretty good. He had some big games with Caleb but also some real clunkers as someone who is basically 7-11 (always open.) Not sure if the coaching staff or Caleb ruined him but there is some combination of the two probably.

And DJ Moore is a great WR, and Odunze has the talent to be a top 20 WR in this league for years to come.

Caleb played poorly last year. He's also very talented. I'm sure his attitude also sucked to a degree. It's also possible he could set the league on fire this year. All of these things could be true.

Eberflus is not a leader. Shane Waldron is one of the worst OC's in the league. Ben Johnson is a leader and after listening to all of his press conferences I'm starting to believe he is the glue that held the Lions together. I'm concerned about them, but that's besides the point.

Soon we'll find out a lot about this team and Caleb, I just hate stories like the one that was posted.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Did I miss it, or do these coaches not have the balls to attach their name to their attacks? I mean, Caleb has his faults in and out of the huddle, but he was in a mess of a situation. Are we pretending like the Eberflus/Waldron combination wasn't a joke to begin with? Now we have some unnamed butt hurt coaches trashing the guy after the fact? GTFO of here with that nonsense. Ben Johnson is a leader. We'll see what Caleb is made of this season, but that article and story is Busch League at best.

The Part II of the article delves into the process of evaluating the QB class.

Suffice it to say, Poles put his thumb on the scale for Caleb and that’s pretty much putting it kindly with those involved being somewhat incredulous as to how it was conducted.

So what this led to was a coaching staff that was admittedly WAY too docile (particularly Waldron) and knew that Caleb was the GM’s guy so Poles wouldn’t have their back.

I’m no fan of Flus/Waldron and quite frankly I’m glad Daniels/Maye have seemingly wound up in way better situations.

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

The article can be as detailed as it wants to be, it doesn't mean it's not sour grapes and very biased. If you're going to bash someone like that(especially when they don't even have a chance to respond or refute what is being written), have the sack to put your name to what you're saying and you'll get a lot more respect from me. These coaches feeding info to the writer are spineless cowards that are probably at home watching games on Sundays this season.

Ben Johnson is a great leader from what I've seen and heard from him. He's also been extremely hard on Caleb in pressers and reportedly at practices. It's been reported Caleb appreciates this. Ben is the alpha here, and you can tell he's asserting his dominance. Caleb has amazing talent, I don't think anyone can dispute this. I have no idea where this relationship goes, but we don't have long before to see where it starts.

 

[cdclopper]

Did I miss it, or do these coaches not have the balls to attach their name to their attacks? I mean, Caleb has his faults in and out of the huddle, but he was in a mess of a situation. Are we pretending like the Eberflus/Waldron combination wasn't a joke to begin with? Now we have some unnamed butt hurt coaches trashing the guy after the fact? GTFO of here with that nonsense. Ben Johnson is a leader. We'll see what Caleb is made of this season, but that article and story is Busch League at best.

The Part II of the article delves into the process of evaluating the QB class.

Suffice it to say, Poles put his thumb on the scale for Caleb and that’s pretty much putting it kindly with those involved being somewhat incredulous as to how it was conducted.

So what this led to was a coaching staff that was admittedly WAY too docile (particularly Waldron) and knew that Caleb was the GM’s guy so Poles wouldn’t have their back.

I’m no fan of Flus/Waldron and quite frankly I’m glad Daniels/Maye have seemingly wound up in way better situations.

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

The article can be as detailed as it wants to be, it doesn't mean it's not sour grapes and very biased. If you're going to bash someone like that(especially when they don't even have a chance to respond or refute what is being written), have the sack to put your name to what you're saying and you'll get a lot more respect from me. These coaches feeding info to the writer are spineless cowards that are probably at home watching games on Sundays this season.

Ben Johnson is a great leader from what I've seen and heard from him. He's also been extremely hard on Caleb in pressers and reportedly at practices. It's been reported Caleb appreciates this. Ben is the alpha here, and you can tell he's asserting his dominance. Caleb has amazing talent, I don't think anyone can dispute this. I have no idea where this relationship goes, but we don't have long before to see where it starts.

I dont think you've read it.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Did I miss it, or do these coaches not have the balls to attach their name to their attacks? I mean, Caleb has his faults in and out of the huddle, but he was in a mess of a situation. Are we pretending like the Eberflus/Waldron combination wasn't a joke to begin with? Now we have some unnamed butt hurt coaches trashing the guy after the fact? GTFO of here with that nonsense. Ben Johnson is a leader. We'll see what Caleb is made of this season, but that article and story is Busch League at best.

The Part II of the article delves into the process of evaluating the QB class.

Suffice it to say, Poles put his thumb on the scale for Caleb and that’s pretty much putting it kindly with those involved being somewhat incredulous as to how it was conducted.

So what this led to was a coaching staff that was admittedly WAY too docile (particularly Waldron) and knew that Caleb was the GM’s guy so Poles wouldn’t have their back.

I’m no fan of Flus/Waldron and quite frankly I’m glad Daniels/Maye have seemingly wound up in way better situations.

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

The article can be as detailed as it wants to be, it doesn't mean it's not sour grapes and very biased. If you're going to bash someone like that(especially when they don't even have a chance to respond or refute what is being written), have the sack to put your name to what you're saying and you'll get a lot more respect from me. These coaches feeding info to the writer are spineless cowards that are probably at home watching games on Sundays this season.

Ben Johnson is a great leader from what I've seen and heard from him. He's also been extremely hard on Caleb in pressers and reportedly at practices. It's been reported Caleb appreciates this. Ben is the alpha here, and you can tell he's asserting his dominance. Caleb has amazing talent, I don't think anyone can dispute this. I have no idea where this relationship goes, but we don't have long before to see where it starts.

I dont think you've read it.

I haven't, just what wasn't behind a paywall. Part 1? Did the coaches attach their name?

 

[cdclopper]

The coaches don't have to put their name on it for it to be true that Caleb Williams is dumb, lazy, and difficult. That's my interperentation. If Euberfluss and Waldren were poor leaders and coaches, its because they were too lax on Caleb Williams. That doesnt say anything good about the player. I mean, we are in the Caleb Williams thread, after all. Does he need Ben Johnson to come in and hold accountable with some strong leadership? It's not a good look. It's more Kyler Murray and less Patrick Mahomes kind of leadership and work ethic. I mean, if he's flat ignoring the coaches, for real thats not a red flag for you? What happens if he starts ignoring the great Ben Johnson?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Just for my two cents on this Williams report for what its worth -- I've been a paid subscriber to Ty Dunne's content for many years. Bob McGinn joined him a few years ago and his draft content is highly regarded and worth the annual fee alone. I listen to Dunne's podcast every week during the season, in which he focuses on the NFC North but also the Bills just because he lives out east now and has some contacts with them. But his long-form investigative content is what makes it a great investment for me - he is unmatched in my opinion in the modern world of NFL media. He was a Packer beat writer for a few years over ten years ago before going out on his own. He is largely despised among Packer fans for writing what was considered a hit piece at the time (about ten years ago) about Aaron Rodgers - revealing his estrangement from his family and other personality quirks both in the locker room and his personal life which in retrospect are now common knowledge and widely accepted but at the time was somewhat of a bombshell. At the time, Dunne was eviscerated for using anonymous sources, although he also named several of his sources in the article. Since then, he's done many fantastic multi-part investigative series including one on the Bills ownership and coaching several years ago ("The McDermott Problem") and a two-part series on Jerry and Steven Jones and the circus in Dallas last year. His pieces are not typically negative despite these examples - he's done fantastic work on deep player bios such as wonderful multi-part piece on Romeo Doubs last year. He did a great article on Howie Roseman and the Eagles front office in July and a fantastic three part series on Julian Hill in June. He's generally been very positive on Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams joining forces in Chicago including a great interview with Will Hewlet who has been Williams private QB coach since he was in 7th grade. Over prior years I also remember fantastic gut-wrenching reporting on Don Majkowski and Erik Kramer among many others. If you love good football writing I highly recommend checking out his stuff.

 

[Chaka]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

 

[cdclopper]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about how Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.