QB Caleb Williams, CHI (2 Viewers)

[CletiusMaximus]

The assertion that Ty Dunne is homophobic based on his use of a few words taken out of context in a 7,000 word piece is deplorable to me. I'm not saying its a masterpiece but to go ad hominin while ignoring context and content is lazy and disgusting. To say that Dunne "randomly inserts the assertion that "GAY PEOPLE WALK DIFFERENTLY THAN THE REST OF US!" as @rschroeder1 does above is hyperbolic nonsense. The author has done nothing of the sort and you have to be desperately seeking offense to take that from the piece. I understand why Bears fans or others who hate the message prefer to attack the messenger though because it is a damning piece for the organization, particularly the second and third parts. I saw the same from Packer fans ten years ago when he wrote his story about Rodgers. I also think we've become so accustomed to bland, crappy sports writing that good long-form journalism based on over 8 months of investigation and hard work is something most of us aren't use to anymore and don't have the attention span to appreciate. We prefer to form an opinion and dismiss the entirety based on a small sound-bite. Half the sports writing we see these days is either AI generated or purely focused on engagement rather than quality. Dunne reminds me of old-school guys like Deford and Reilly, not just a dying breed but nearly non-existent in sports reporting today. I would like to say more and paste some context but don't want to derail this further. As JB has said, its going to be a fascinating year seeing the Williams/Johnson partnership play out in Chicago and the battle of NFC North rivalries which now involve four good quarterbacks (3 of them very young) and 4 good coaches.

The dictionary definition of "sashay" as "walk in an ostentatious yet casual manner, typically with exaggerated movements of the hips and shoulders," or "to strut and move about in a conspicuous manner."

The dictionary examples in general pertain to how a woman might walk in a dress.

The very simple question is, when did this happen in the Seahawks-Bears as the author says it did? It shouldn't be that hard to isolate. The author doesn't say exactly when, but since it had to be during a stoppage of play, we can reasonably ascertain it took place coming out of a TV timeout, quarter break, and/or after a Bears or Seahawks timeout.

I don't have access to the full game replay, so I couldn't tell you that I just rewatched it. But I did watch that game in its entirety, and to be honest I can't recall a moment when Williams was "walking with exaggerated movements of his hips and shoulders." Oddly enough, there are no media reports of this in the aftermath of the game.

So, it seems we can reasonably conclude one of the following:

- Williams "sashayed" from the sidelines during a TV timeout, when people wouldn't notice on television. With that said, Dunne doesn't say in his article he was live in person at Soldier Field. He lives in western New York, so did he attend this game as credentialed media? Seems unlikely he attended as a fan. Likewise, no other credentialed media seemed to notice this weird form of walking he adopted at the game.

- Williams "sashayed" from the sidelines, but nobody else seemed to notice except for Dunne watching on television. This seems exceedingly unlikely, given that the game was a nationally broadcast Thursday night game the night after Christmas. Likewise, seems really unlikely the cameras and broadcast crew wouldn't pick up on it.

- Williams walked like a normal person, and Dunne just randomly chose a verb generally associated with women wearing dresses to describe a football player whose sexuality has been questioned in the past. It was a complete coincidence.

What you are asking us to believe defies credulity. Again, as someone who has worked as both a journalist and as a sports journalist, "I decided to use random verbs" is generally not an accepted practice.

I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s a term loaded with homophonic connotations and was a poor word choice especially in the context of this particular player. But the way he uses the word for me has a clear purpose - he’s trying to convey the quarterback’s dismissive, nonchalant attitude toward his coach in a tense sideline moment. This is a constant theme throughout part I of the article. I’ve pasted it below and would ask you to consider my interpretation. This is at the very beginning of a 27,000 word article and is part of the introductory sentences that is trying to hook the reader. But I would challenge anyone to read the entire piece and draw the conclusion you’ve drawn and make this awful accusation against him. I don’t think it’s fair at all.

This is also not the author reporting his personal knowledge or experience. He makes that clear - it’s during a commercial timeout. He’s describing what his sources told him. If anyone is really interested is this I suggest listening to the Evan Strauss podcast from Tuesday — https://open.spotify.com/episode/63oWIEf9zVx2cSV69OFWWU?si=MhPoG42nSmykLT6ZF6fBqg Strauss and Dunne get into several of these issues.

Here’s the quote where the word sashay is used:

“The most dramatic spectacle of them all occurred on Dec. 26. His team was hosting the Seattle Seahawks on Thursday Night Football. Commercials rolled during a timeout, so nobody at home saw this poignant moment that perfectly summarized the 2024 Chicago Bears. In the wake of two firings, heartbreaking defeats, staggering to the finish line of an agonizing 5-12 season, interim head coach Thomas Brown tried to explain something to his starting quarterback and… no. Williams was not having it.
An auto-response kicked in.
As he had done many times to many coaches all season, Williams turned his head and walked away. Shane Waldron, before getting fired as offensive coordinator, used to stay quiet. Not Brown. Not a stern, blunt, old-school coach who believed this 22-year-old crossed a line of disrespect. The typically calm coach lost it. On the headset, another Bears assistant coach recalls Brown pressing the mic to finish his conversation: “Get your *** back here right now! Don’t ****ing walk away when I’m talking to you!”
Unfazed, Williams sashayed away. Right back to the huddle.”

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

@rockaction posted this on the last page, but it's worth repeating.

https://x.com/readjack/status/1965095012192190469

 

[rschroeder1]

I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s a term loaded with homophonic connotations and was a poor word choice especially in the context of this particular player. But the way he uses the word for me has a clear purpose - he’s trying to convey the quarterback’s dismissive, nonchalant attitude toward his coach in a tense sideline moment. This is a constant theme throughout part I of the article. I’ve pasted it below and would ask you to consider my interpretation. This is at the very beginning of a 27,000 word article and is part of the introductory sentences that is trying to hook the reader. But I would challenge anyone to read the entire piece and draw the conclusion you’ve drawn and make this awful accusation against him. I don’t think it’s fair at all.

This is also not the author reporting his personal knowledge or experience. He makes that clear - it’s during a commercial timeout. He’s describing what his sources told him. If anyone is really interested is this I suggest listening to the Evan Strauss podcast from Tuesday — https://open.spotify.com/episode/63oWIEf9zVx2cSV69OFWWU?si=MhPoG42nSmykLT6ZF6fBqg Strauss and Dunne get into several of these issues.

Here’s the quote where the word sashay is used:

“The most dramatic spectacle of them all occurred on Dec. 26. His team was hosting the Seattle Seahawks on Thursday Night Football. Commercials rolled during a timeout, so nobody at home saw this poignant moment that perfectly summarized the 2024 Chicago Bears. In the wake of two firings, heartbreaking defeats, staggering to the finish line of an agonizing 5-12 season, interim head coach Thomas Brown tried to explain something to his starting quarterback and… no. Williams was not having it.
An auto-response kicked in.
As he had done many times to many coaches all season, Williams turned his head and walked away. Shane Waldron, before getting fired as offensive coordinator, used to stay quiet. Not Brown. Not a stern, blunt, old-school coach who believed this 22-year-old crossed a line of disrespect. The typically calm coach lost it. On the headset, another Bears assistant coach recalls Brown pressing the mic to finish his conversation: “Get your *** back here right now! Don’t ****ing walk away when I’m talking to you!”
Unfazed, Williams sashayed away. Right back to the huddle.”

I agree that text should always be open to interpretation, but I don't agree with your interpretation at all.

Again, Dunne is literally claiming here that this moment occurred that no one saw except those in the stadium. He doesn't say he was at the game, so the reasonable assumption is that he is reporting what some (anonymous) source told him.

Dunne reports that Williams "turned his head and walked away." Brown then yells at him to return to the sideline and literally says "Don't ____ walk away when I'm talking to you."

Since Dunne was presumably not at the game, and he's reporting on what happened via sources, here is a source literally saying that Williams was walking away from the sideline. It's a literal quote.

The only reasonable conclusions are that something noticeable changed in how Williams was walking, at that very moment, or Dunne is editorializing on his own. He doesn't offer any sources who actually say Williams sashayed, and no one else in the media reported on this, so we can reasonably conclude that nothing changed in the way Williams was walking.

Which leaves us with why Dunne chose this word.

 

[Chaka]

I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s a term loaded with homophonic connotations and was a poor word choice especially in the context of this particular player. But the way he uses the word for me has a clear purpose - he’s trying to convey the quarterback’s dismissive, nonchalant attitude toward his coach in a tense sideline moment. This is a constant theme throughout part I of the article. I’ve pasted it below and would ask you to consider my interpretation. This is at the very beginning of a 27,000 word article and is part of the introductory sentences that is trying to hook the reader. But I would challenge anyone to read the entire piece and draw the conclusion you’ve drawn and make this awful accusation against him. I don’t think it’s fair at all.

This is also not the author reporting his personal knowledge or experience. He makes that clear - it’s during a commercial timeout. He’s describing what his sources told him. If anyone is really interested is this I suggest listening to the Evan Strauss podcast from Tuesday — https://open.spotify.com/episode/63oWIEf9zVx2cSV69OFWWU?si=MhPoG42nSmykLT6ZF6fBqg Strauss and Dunne get into several of these issues.

Here’s the quote where the word sashay is used:

“The most dramatic spectacle of them all occurred on Dec. 26. His team was hosting the Seattle Seahawks on Thursday Night Football. Commercials rolled during a timeout, so nobody at home saw this poignant moment that perfectly summarized the 2024 Chicago Bears. In the wake of two firings, heartbreaking defeats, staggering to the finish line of an agonizing 5-12 season, interim head coach Thomas Brown tried to explain something to his starting quarterback and… no. Williams was not having it.
An auto-response kicked in.
As he had done many times to many coaches all season, Williams turned his head and walked away. Shane Waldron, before getting fired as offensive coordinator, used to stay quiet. Not Brown. Not a stern, blunt, old-school coach who believed this 22-year-old crossed a line of disrespect. The typically calm coach lost it. On the headset, another Bears assistant coach recalls Brown pressing the mic to finish his conversation: “Get your *** back here right now! Don’t ****ing walk away when I’m talking to you!”
Unfazed, Williams sashayed away. Right back to the huddle.”

I agree that text should always be open to interpretation, but I don't agree with your interpretation at all.

Again, Dunne is literally claiming here that this moment occurred that no one saw except those in the stadium. He doesn't say he was at the game, so the reasonable assumption is that he is reporting what some (anonymous) source told him.

Dunne reports that Williams "turned his head and walked away." Brown then yells at him to return to the sideline and literally says "Don't ____ walk away when I'm talking to you."

Since Dunne was presumably not at the game, and he's reporting on what happened via sources, here is a source literally saying that Williams was walking away from the sideline. It's a literal quote.

The only reasonable conclusions are that something noticeable changed in how Williams was walking, at that very moment, or Dunne is editorializing on his own. He doesn't offer any sources who actually say Williams sashayed, and no one else in the media reported on this, so we can reasonably conclude that nothing changed in the way Williams was walking.

Which leaves us with why Dunne chose this word.

Dunne said that one (some?) sources were coaches in the booth at the time. So, it is reasonable to believe the exchange happened.

I find hanging on the dictionary definition of any word to be a limited point at best and, specious at worst.

It could simply be a poor word choice. To dismiss an entire article because of one word suggests you wanted to dismiss the article regardless.

 

[Chaka]

Maybe the article is a hit piece by a homophobic journalist with an axe to grind. But you shouldn't draw that conclusion based on a single word.

I suggest reading the whole article and look for corroboration of that hypothesis.

 

[rockaction]

Away from the controversy. Greg Cosell watched his tape and his comments are at the linik

https://x.com/RossTuckerPod/status/1966124572006392029

 

[nittanylion]

No offense to anyone, but a large portion of the recent/current conversation held in this Thread, belongs in the FFA, not here.

Take it how you wish, and do with it what you will: the SP does it's job better when Threads remain focused on SP things, and not cluttered with subject matter more appropriate for either a different Forum, or different website.

That's not to say that whatever is being discussed isn't relevant or legitmate, in it's own way, by any means.

Again, no offense meant, just a request on my part to possibly consider redirecting the Thread more in an SP direction, and take the non-SP discussions somewhere else.

JMHO, TIA, will answer yours.

 

[Sir Psycho]

No offense to anyone, but a large portion of the recent/current conversation held in this Thread, belongs in the FFA, not here.

Take it how you wish, and do with it what you will: the SP does it's job better when Threads remain focused on SP things, and not cluttered with subject matter more appropriate for either a different Forum, or different website.

That's not to say that whatever is being discussed isn't relevant or legitmate, in it's own way, by any means.

Again, no offense meant, just a request on my part to possibly consider redirecting the Thread more in an SP direction, and take the non-SP discussions somewhere else.

JMHO, TIA, will answer yours.

Caleb or JJM ?

 

[Chaka]

No offense to anyone, but a large portion of the recent/current conversation held in this Thread, belongs in the FFA, not here.

Take it how you wish, and do with it what you will: the SP does it's job better when Threads remain focused on SP things, and not cluttered with subject matter more appropriate for either a different Forum, or different website.

That's not to say that whatever is being discussed isn't relevant or legitmate, in it's own way, by any means.

Again, no offense meant, just a request on my part to possibly consider redirecting the Thread more in an SP direction, and take the non-SP discussions somewhere else.

JMHO, TIA, will answer yours.

Caleb or JJM ?

Currently have JJ in my lineup over Caleb this week. Home against ATL just seems like a better matchup. But, I could easily change my mind before kickoff.

 

[rockaction]

No offense to anyone, but a large portion of the recent/current conversation held in this Thread, belongs in the FFA, not here.

Take it how you wish, and do with it what you will: the SP does it's job better when Threads remain focused on SP things, and not cluttered with subject matter more appropriate for either a different Forum, or different website.

That's not to say that whatever is being discussed isn't relevant or legitmate, in it's own way, by any means.

Again, no offense meant, just a request on my part to possibly consider redirecting the Thread more in an SP direction, and take the non-SP discussions somewhere else.

JMHO, TIA, will answer yours.

I totally get what you're saying but then it becomes impossible becuse the way the tactic is used is that it's now a sign of your homophobia or anti-gay feelings if you're cheering against Caleb the quarterback, which is normally a Shark Pool topic. But once you do that there's a rejoinder: those guys are cheering against him or (or!) bringing up evidence that he's a bad quarterback because they're secret homophobes! That's where that type of cynicism leads. Everything contra Caleb is a reflection of you and your discomfort with gays. It's a clever-*** trick, and believe me, there are people who will smear you that way.

I agree with you that I'd rather not have the discussion, but don't blame the people caught up in it—blame the tactic. That's what it is designed to do. It's completely consuming and insidious. Enough out of me.

 

[renesauz]

that was one of the worst performances I've ever seen for a top pick, like Jamarcus Russell Ryan Leaf level BAD

I think you need to go back and refresh your memory on Russell and Leaf. This was nowhere near their level of incompetence. I don't believe either of them ever came close to 10 straight completions at any time. I agree some plays were Russell/Leaf level bad but the game as a whole is nowhere near to being that bad.

to be honest, I didnt see the first half, but that's not really my point. That second half was absolutely as bad as I've ever seen from a top prospect

 

[Manster]

This is such a weird thread.

 

[FGITLOTR]

Nobody wants to hear this right now, but the truth is Bagent is a better fit for Johnson’s system and gives them a better chance to win—this reminds of the RG3/Cousins years in Washington. Please don’t misinterpret my post—they invested the top pick in the kid and have to let him play, but I won’t be surprised to see Bagent under center at some point this season. There’s a reason they gave him 10m, and Johnson know’s what he has. Williams looked great on the first drive, as those plays were scripted by Johnson. Williams has an elite arm and excellent mobility, but clearly lacks anticipation on throws and misses way too many easy passes. Watching the 22 from Monday’s game must of been painful for Johnson and company. In dynasty, if you have room, I don’t think it’s crazy to stash Bagent. I think the kid would do very well with this supporting cast.

I’m bracing myself to get ripped by people in here lol

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

No offense to anyone, but a large portion of the recent/current conversation held in this Thread, belongs in the FFA, not here.

Take it how you wish, and do with it what you will: the SP does it's job better when Threads remain focused on SP things, and not cluttered with subject matter more appropriate for either a different Forum, or different website.

That's not to say that whatever is being discussed isn't relevant or legitmate, in it's own way, by any means.

Again, no offense meant, just a request on my part to possibly consider redirecting the Thread more in an SP direction, and take the non-SP discussions somewhere else.

JMHO, TIA, will answer yours.

I totally get what you're saying but then it becomes impossible becuse the way the tactic is used is that it's now a sign of your homophobia or anti-gay feelings if you're cheering against Caleb the quarterback, which is normally a Shark Pool topic. But once you do that there's a rejoinder: those guys are cheering against him or (or!) bringing up evidence that he's a bad quarterback because they're secret homophobes! That's where that type of cynicism leads. Everything contra Caleb is a reflection of you and your discomfort with gays. It's a clever-*** trick, and believe me, there are people who will smear you that way.

I agree with you that I'd rather not have the discussion, but don't blame the people caught up in it—blame the tactic. That's what it is designed to do. It's completely consuming and insidious. Enough out of me.

This is 100% inaccurate. Not one single poster on this thread has called you or any other person a homophobe because you decided Williams is a bad QB. You're painting yourself a victim and I have no idea why. Personally, I value your fantasy football opinion and that of many of the posters here who aren't fans of Williams including those opinions of Williams.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Nobody wants to hear this right now, but the truth is Bagent is a better fit for Johnson’s system and gives them a better chance to win—this reminds of the RG3/Cousins years in Washington. Please don’t misinterpret my post—they invested the top pick in the kid and have to let him play, but I won’t be surprised to see Bagent under center at some point this season. There’s a reason they gave him 10m, and Johnson know’s what he has. Williams looked great on the first drive, as those plays were scripted by Johnson. Williams has an elite arm and excellent mobility, but clearly lacks anticipation on throws and misses way too many easy passes. Watching the 22 from Monday’s game must of been painful for Johnson and company. In dynasty, if you have room, I don’t think it’s crazy to stash Bagent. I think the kid would do very well with this supporting cast.

I’m bracing myself to get ripped by people in here lol

While I don't necessarily agree with you on the system fit, I will concede that Bagent will get a shot if Ben Johnson believes Caleb Williams is not progressing the way he should or if he's getting the attitude/work ethic/nonchalant that was presented in Tyler Dunne's article. To be clear, Bagent got a $5mil/year (up to $8mil per year with incentives) extension. That's less than backups like Tyrod Taylor, Zach Wilson, Marcus Mariota, and Davis Mills. I like Bagent and think he might make a push for a starting job one day, but I don't see him displacing Caleb Williams without some kind of internal strife or injury. As a Bears fan, I'm glad Bagent was extended and I'm hopeful that he won't need to see extended duty in 2025.

 

[Manster]

Yea, but can Bagent sashay to the huddle?

 

[rockaction]

No offense to anyone, but a large portion of the recent/current conversation held in this Thread, belongs in the FFA, not here.

Take it how you wish, and do with it what you will: the SP does it's job better when Threads remain focused on SP things, and not cluttered with subject matter more appropriate for either a different Forum, or different website.

That's not to say that whatever is being discussed isn't relevant or legitmate, in it's own way, by any means.

Again, no offense meant, just a request on my part to possibly consider redirecting the Thread more in an SP direction, and take the non-SP discussions somewhere else.

JMHO, TIA, will answer yours.

I totally get what you're saying but then it becomes impossible becuse the way the tactic is used is that it's now a sign of your homophobia or anti-gay feelings if you're cheering against Caleb the quarterback, which is normally a Shark Pool topic. But once you do that there's a rejoinder: those guys are cheering against him or (or!) bringing up evidence that he's a bad quarterback because they're secret homophobes! That's where that type of cynicism leads. Everything contra Caleb is a reflection of you and your discomfort with gays. It's a clever-*** trick, and believe me, there are people who will smear you that way.

I agree with you that I'd rather not have the discussion, but don't blame the people caught up in it—blame the tactic. That's what it is designed to do. It's completely consuming and insidious. Enough out of me.

This is 100% inaccurate. Not one single poster on this thread has called you or any other person a homophobe because you decided Williams is a bad QB. You're painting yourself a victim and I have no idea why. Personally, I value your fantasy football opinion and that of many of the posters here who aren't fans of Williams including those opinions of Williams.

I didn’t say anybody here did. At all. But I’ve definitely seen it happen on these boards. For sure. I was just saying that once the issue is understood and inheres in the debate everybody is aware of it and it chills speech and puts people who hold the same position as the anti-gay people on the defensive and looking to clarify.

 

[Chaka]

Nobody wants to hear this right now, but the truth is Bagent is a better fit for Johnson’s system and gives them a better chance to win—this reminds of the RG3/Cousins years in Washington. Please don’t misinterpret my post—they invested the top pick in the kid and have to let him play, but I won’t be surprised to see Bagent under center at some point this season. There’s a reason they gave him 10m, and Johnson know’s what he has. Williams looked great on the first drive, as those plays were scripted by Johnson. Williams has an elite arm and excellent mobility, but clearly lacks anticipation on throws and misses way too many easy passes. Watching the 22 from Monday’s game must of been painful for Johnson and company. In dynasty, if you have room, I don’t think it’s crazy to stash Bagent. I think the kid would do very well with this supporting cast.

I’m bracing myself to get ripped by people in here lol

While I don't necessarily agree with you on the system fit, I will concede that Bagent will get a shot if Ben Johnson believes Caleb Williams is not progressing the way he should or if he's getting the attitude/work ethic/nonchalant that was presented in Tyler Dunne's article. To be clear, Bagent got a $5mil/year (up to $8mil per year with incentives) extension. That's less than backups like Tyrod Taylor, Zach Wilson, Marcus Mariota, and Davis Mills. I like Bagent and think he might make a push for a starting job one day, but I don't see him displacing Caleb Williams without some kind of internal strife or injury. As a Bears fan, I'm glad Bagent was extended and I'm hopeful that he won't need to see extended duty in 2025.

Yeah, I think people need to slow down on that one a bit. In reality it was an extension, he is now under contract until 2027 and his base salary for 2025 is still about $1 mil. He got $2.53 mil guaranteed at signing and the Bears have an out after this season.

The first of his "big" salaries, $4 mil, doesn't kick in until 2026,

His guarantee puts him at 56th among QBs behind, Davis Mills, Tyrod, Brissett, Mariota, Stidham, Z.Wilson, Dalton, Jameis, Mac Jones, Cooper Rush, Josh Dobbs, Trubisky, Garoppolo, Flacco, Nick Mullens & Mason Rudolph.

If he pays out all three years, at this moment he will be 38th among QBs behind Brissett, Taylor, Stidham & Pickett.

It's a nice extension but let's not oversell it.

 

[massraider]

Nobody wants to hear this right now, but the truth is Bagent is a better fit for Johnson’s system and gives them a better chance to win

Sometimes you just need to speak the truth, no matter the consequences. Be brave.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Was Bagent taught how to watch film?

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Was Bagent taught how to watch film?

I'm guessing that he was given the same opportunity to study film by himself as Williams was. Probably with very little guidance. Why do you ask? Remember, the QB room in 2024 was Bagent (with 1 year experience) and Williams (a rookie). Austin Reed was on the practice squad as a 2024 rookie. So there's not a lot of veteran leadership in the room. One would think that after the decision was made to have 1 singular year of experience in the QB room for 2024, the coaching staff would have made at least some effort to acclimate them to the day to day of being an NFL QB.

 

[LawFitz]

Lots of misses by Koolaid Williams, and yet he still scored nearly 30 fantasy points. Sounds a bit like Justin Fields and Jalen Hurts conversations, if you added a don't mess with the dress component.

 

[Faust]

Bears' Caleb Williams still battling his accuracy problems

 

[Chaka]

Lots of misses by Koolaid Williams, and yet he still scored nearly 30 fantasy points. Sounds a bit like Justin Fields and Jalen Hurts conversations, if you added a don't mess with the dress component. I started Burrow and got rolled by the guy who started Caleb.

FYP

 

[Ilov80s]

Holding him now as my back-up QB but Penix and Geno Smith are available and it's very tempting to drop Caleb for one of them. I like Caleb's potential for fantasy but I don't like him as a player and especially don't like the Bears.

 

[Mitchie]

Chicago's 2nd half schedule is pretty brutal, from week 8 on includes: GB twice, Pitt, Philly, Baltimore, Minnesota and SF

 

[travdogg]

I thought he played fine. Made some really impressive throws, showed great escape ability, and didn't make any bad decisions. Accuracy and quickness of reads could have been better, but 1st game in a new offense, against great defense, I'll take it.

 

[TampaMike19]

Chicago's 2nd half schedule is pretty brutal, from week 8 on includes: GB twice, Pitt, Philly, Baltimore, Minnesota and SF

The only brutal defenses so far is Green Bay. Everything else screams below average to average matchup as of today

 

[The Frankman]

Caleb Williams completed 19-of-30 passes for 207 yards, two touchdowns and an interception in the Bears’ 52-21, Week 2 loss to the Lions, adding five carries for 27 yards.

For the second week in a row, Williams’ best drive was probably the Bears’ scripted opening series. The Bears can at least score on their opening possession — unlike 2024, where they never found the end zone — but things haven’t been a whole lot better afterward. That being said, the defense was a bigger issue than the offense today, while Williams was not as visibly inaccurate as he was in the opener. He found second-year first-rounder Rome Odunze for 7/128/2. New coach Ben Johnson has a few things working. Just not enough to get Williams in the QB1 mix for Week 3 against the Cowboys.
- Rotoworld

I just feel it's going to take some time for Caleb to get the system.

 

[Ray Barboni]

Caleb Williams completed 19-of-30 passes for 207 yards, two touchdowns and an interception in the Bears’ 52-21, Week 2 loss to the Lions, adding five carries for 27 yards.

For the second week in a row, Williams’ best drive was probably the Bears’ scripted opening series. The Bears can at least score on their opening possession — unlike 2024, where they never found the end zone — but things haven’t been a whole lot better afterward. That being said, the defense was a bigger issue than the offense today, while Williams was not as visibly inaccurate as he was in the opener. He found second-year first-rounder Rome Odunze for 7/128/2. New coach Ben Johnson has a few things working. Just not enough to get Williams in the QB1 mix for Week 3 against the Cowboys.
- Rotoworld

I just feel it's going to take some time for Caleb to get the system.

Yep. I’ve seen him grow. Ben’s system isn’t the easiest to learn - but he’s progressing nicely.

We got spoiled with CJ Stroud, and then Jaydon last year - but QB should always be judged on a 2-3 year sample.

His arm talent is in the top of the league.

 

[Faust]

Bears encouraged by QB Caleb Williams' growth in Week 2 loss

 

[Bronco Billy]

Just saw an internet post that said NO is getting roughly equivalent, and arguably slightly better, performance from Spencer Rattler than CHI is getting from Williams.

I was skeptical so I checked at PFR myself and sure enough, it’s accurate.

 

[Chaka]

Just saw an internet post that said NO is getting roughly equivalent, and arguably slightly better, performance from Spencer Rattler than CHI is getting from Williams.

I was skeptical so I checked at PFR myself and sure enough, it’s accurate.

Cool. 2025 data, I presume. Now compare Rattler to Jayden and Maye and McCarthy.

 

[-OZ-]

Caleb Williams completed 19-of-30 passes for 207 yards, two touchdowns and an interception in the Bears’ 52-21, Week 2 loss to the Lions, adding five carries for 27 yards.

For the second week in a row, Williams’ best drive was probably the Bears’ scripted opening series. The Bears can at least score on their opening possession — unlike 2024, where they never found the end zone — but things haven’t been a whole lot better afterward. That being said, the defense was a bigger issue than the offense today, while Williams was not as visibly inaccurate as he was in the opener. He found second-year first-rounder Rome Odunze for 7/128/2. New coach Ben Johnson has a few things working. Just not enough to get Williams in the QB1 mix for Week 3 against the Cowboys.
- Rotoworld

I just feel it's going to take some time for Caleb to get the system.

Yep. I’ve seen him grow. Ben’s system isn’t the easiest to learn - but he’s progressing nicely.

We got spoiled with CJ Stroud, and then Jaydon last year - but QB should always be judged on a 2-3 year sample.

His arm talent is in the top of the league.

I think it was an FBG podcast but they run together, where they commented that we should expect Caleb to struggle out of the gate but mid season to the end is where we’ll really get to know whether he has what it takes

Of course he could be another Baker and take 6 years to develop.

 

[jobarules]

Fantasy wise hes top 10. I personally think he stinks but seems like a must start this week vs Dallas? Im leaning him over Maye (I lost Burrow).

 

[Chaka]

Caleb Williams completed 19-of-30 passes for 207 yards, two touchdowns and an interception in the Bears’ 52-21, Week 2 loss to the Lions, adding five carries for 27 yards.

For the second week in a row, Williams’ best drive was probably the Bears’ scripted opening series. The Bears can at least score on their opening possession — unlike 2024, where they never found the end zone — but things haven’t been a whole lot better afterward. That being said, the defense was a bigger issue than the offense today, while Williams was not as visibly inaccurate as he was in the opener. He found second-year first-rounder Rome Odunze for 7/128/2. New coach Ben Johnson has a few things working. Just not enough to get Williams in the QB1 mix for Week 3 against the Cowboys.
- Rotoworld

I just feel it's going to take some time for Caleb to get the system.

Yep. I’ve seen him grow. Ben’s system isn’t the easiest to learn - but he’s progressing nicely.

We got spoiled with CJ Stroud, and then Jaydon last year - but QB should always be judged on a 2-3 year sample.

His arm talent is in the top of the league.

I think it was an FBG podcast but they run together, where they commented that we should expect Caleb to struggle out of the gate but mid season to the end is where we’ll really get to know whether he has what it takes

Of course he could be another Baker and take 6 years to develop.

Agreed. I think after the week 5 bye is where, if there is going to be any, his development in this system will begin. Johnson runs a complicated scheme and challenges his QBs with a lot of information. I don't think Caleb has ever been challenged in this way.

 

[Manster]

At home vs Cowboys D that Russ just lit up….its juicy matchup that Caleb better be able to take advantage of.

 

[General Malaise]

At home vs Cowboys D that Russ just lit up….its juicy matchup that Caleb better be able to take advantage of.

Yup. I'm in a dynasty league and loaded up on Caleb, Nix and Pennix last year (complete teardown/rebuild mode). My 2024 plan was to go with Caleb from the jump and just ride him but it wasn't long before Nix became 'my guy'. In 2025, I've started the wrong guy twice in a row (Nix then Penix).

This week? It's Caleb's turn. If he can't abuse the Dallas D then I'm not sure when I start him again. I want to see that cannon, Caleb!

 

[Ray Barboni]

Caleb Williams completed 19-of-30 passes for 207 yards, two touchdowns and an interception in the Bears’ 52-21, Week 2 loss to the Lions, adding five carries for 27 yards.

For the second week in a row, Williams’ best drive was probably the Bears’ scripted opening series. The Bears can at least score on their opening possession — unlike 2024, where they never found the end zone — but things haven’t been a whole lot better afterward. That being said, the defense was a bigger issue than the offense today, while Williams was not as visibly inaccurate as he was in the opener. He found second-year first-rounder Rome Odunze for 7/128/2. New coach Ben Johnson has a few things working. Just not enough to get Williams in the QB1 mix for Week 3 against the Cowboys.
- Rotoworld

I just feel it's going to take some time for Caleb to get the system.

Yep. I’ve seen him grow. Ben’s system isn’t the easiest to learn - but he’s progressing nicely.

We got spoiled with CJ Stroud, and then Jaydon last year - but QB should always be judged on a 2-3 year sample.

His arm talent is in the top of the league.

I think it was an FBG podcast but they run together, where they commented that we should expect Caleb to struggle out of the gate but mid season to the end is where we’ll really get to know whether he has what it takes

Of course he could be another Baker and take 6 years to develop.

Agreed. I think after the week 5 bye is where, if there is going to be any, his development in this system will begin. Johnson runs a complicated scheme and challenges his QBs with a lot of information. I don't think Caleb has ever been challenged in this way.

There was an excellent breakdown of Caleb’s last 2 games - I don’t know who it was, or where it was. But it came up on my YouTube feed. I’ll dig deeper and find it.

But it basically broke down every play - especially the national (what was he doing there!?) plays … the highlighted Caleb’s decision making on the missed plays, using the all 22 film.

From what I gathered, Caleb is much smarter than a lot of people are giving him credit for. Sure, he’s a bit timid at times, missed some throws - but a lot of that has to do with what he’s seeing.

I’ll take a cerebral QB all day. As long as his misses “make sense” …

I’ll report back later when I hopefully find that video

 

[-OZ-]

At home vs Cowboys D that Russ just lit up….its juicy matchup that Caleb better be able to take advantage of.

Yup. I'm in a dynasty league and loaded up on Caleb, Nix and Pennix last year (complete teardown/rebuild mode). My 2024 plan was to go with Caleb from the jump and just ride him but it wasn't long before Nix became 'my guy'. In 2025, I've started the wrong guy twice in a row (Nix then Penix).

This week? It's Caleb's turn. If he can't abuse the Dallas D then I'm not sure when I start him again. I want to see that cannon, Caleb!

Funny, I’m rolling with nix, Caleb and Bryce in SF. started a wrong guy both weeks but won both games. I was fairly confident 3 weeks ago.

 

[Chaka]

Caleb Williams completed 19-of-30 passes for 207 yards, two touchdowns and an interception in the Bears’ 52-21, Week 2 loss to the Lions, adding five carries for 27 yards.

For the second week in a row, Williams’ best drive was probably the Bears’ scripted opening series. The Bears can at least score on their opening possession — unlike 2024, where they never found the end zone — but things haven’t been a whole lot better afterward. That being said, the defense was a bigger issue than the offense today, while Williams was not as visibly inaccurate as he was in the opener. He found second-year first-rounder Rome Odunze for 7/128/2. New coach Ben Johnson has a few things working. Just not enough to get Williams in the QB1 mix for Week 3 against the Cowboys.
- Rotoworld

I just feel it's going to take some time for Caleb to get the system.

Yep. I’ve seen him grow. Ben’s system isn’t the easiest to learn - but he’s progressing nicely.

We got spoiled with CJ Stroud, and then Jaydon last year - but QB should always be judged on a 2-3 year sample.

His arm talent is in the top of the league.

I think it was an FBG podcast but they run together, where they commented that we should expect Caleb to struggle out of the gate but mid season to the end is where we’ll really get to know whether he has what it takes

Of course he could be another Baker and take 6 years to develop.

Agreed. I think after the week 5 bye is where, if there is going to be any, his development in this system will begin. Johnson runs a complicated scheme and challenges his QBs with a lot of information. I don't think Caleb has ever been challenged in this way.

There was an excellent breakdown of Caleb’s last 2 games - I don’t know who it was, or where it was. But it came up on my YouTube feed. I’ll dig deeper and find it.

But it basically broke down every play - especially the national (what was he doing there!?) plays … the highlighted Caleb’s decision making on the missed plays, using the all 22 film.

From what I gathered, Caleb is much smarter than a lot of people are giving him credit for. Sure, he’s a bit timid at times, missed some throws - but a lot of that has to do with what he’s seeing.

I’ll take a cerebral QB all day. As long as his misses “make sense” …

I’ll report back later when I hopefully find that video

In the video is he using Ben Johnson's cadence? Hut, hut, HIKE!!!? Or Eenie, meenie, miney, GO!!!

 

[fatness]

Why does the GM still have a job then?

Username checks out.

 

[Pietaster2]

Remember this one?

Since receiving the infamous “you’re not going to punt too much” text from Caleb Williams, Tory Taylor has punted 92 times - the most in the NFL.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

I'm quick to criticize, but I'll give props when its due. He looked ****ing good today.

 

[-OZ-]

Good to see he can dominate an inept defense. Now to look as good playing NFL teams.

 

[rockaction]

Good work by Caleb. His coach says he's getting better by the week. I believe and believed it.

 

[Runkle]

Practically Canton-worthy

 

[massraider]

Practically Canton-worthy

Nah the first two TD were because they were scripted-probably.

And the last two were cause Dallas sucks.

Caleb didn't actually throw any TD passes himself. Came close a few times tho!

 

[Deranged Hermit]

Good to see he can dominate an inept defense. Now to look as good playing NFL teams.

That's fine. He's beating up the defenses he needs to. Baby steps.

 

[Max Power]

His accuracy issues still show up at critical moments. Brady seemed optimistic he can grow past that. Once he gets that under control he will be a force.