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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (2 Viewers)

Hot Sauce Guy said:
Shocking outcome. 
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I don't think it is shocking. One of the sports talk show hosts in Houston today was talking about how he was talking to a local police officer who said grand juries in Houston usually indict 85% of the time. My speculation is that is because the DA usually only brings cases to the grand jury that they know they have enough evidence to possibly win in court, so a grand jury indictment where the bar is lower, is going to happen most of the time. UNLESS the DA feels they would look bad if they didn't bring a high profile case before the grand jury. In Watson's case, they can say, well, we tried, we just didn't have enough evidence to get an indictment.

 
Soulfly3 said:
If Indy is serious about a Super Bowl...
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I don't think this is going to happen because Indy doesn't have enough draft capital to trade to begin with (no first round pick this year), and the Texans will require more draft capital from Indy than from another team because they are in the division.

 
dhockster said:
I don't think this is going to happen because Indy doesn't have enough draft capital to trade to begin with (no first round pick this year), and the Texans will require more draft capital from Indy than from another team because they are in the division.
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How about Seattle. They now have the draft capital.

 
OK, this changes everything.  No indictment, meaning he can settle the civil cases and no suspension and he will be traded.  Great news for Watson owners and Watson.

 
dhockster said:
I don't think it is shocking. One of the sports talk show hosts in Houston today was talking about how he was talking to a local police officer who said grand juries in Houston usually indict 85% of the time. My speculation is that is because the DA usually only brings cases to the grand jury that they know they have enough evidence to possibly win in court, so a grand jury indictment where the bar is lower, is going to happen most of the time. UNLESS the DA feels they would look bad if they didn't bring a high profile case before the grand jury. In Watson's case, they can say, well, we tried, we just didn't have enough evidence to get an indictment.
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The standard is pretty easy to make if an attorney has done their due diligence and thinks there’s even enough to take to the grand jury. Most prosecutors exercise sufficient discretion that they don’t take garbage cases this far. 

 
JohnnyU said:
I think it is part of the collective bargaining agreement that the NFL can't suspend for outstanding civil cases.
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I guess I am just thinking about Big Ben, etc....granted I don't remember if there were any legal matters involved, etc....but it just feels like the NFL can pretty much do what they want...whether anything happens in criminal or civil cases, etc...

 
so this was 9 of the 22....what about the "other 13"....can stuff still happen with those....?

 
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JohnnyU said:
No he cannot unless new criminal charges are presented.  The collective bargaining prevents the NFL from suspending because of civil cases.
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I was sure they’ve suspended players  who were under suspicion of things with no criminal charges in the past. Maybe something changed the last collective bargaining that I missed. 

 
JohnnyU said:
No he cannot unless new criminal charges are presented.  The collective bargaining prevents the NFL from suspending because of civil cases.
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what about if its "more probable than not" that you are just a POS.....?...using the Brady language on purpose....I mean if you can be suspended for maybe being involved in some air coming out of a football....?

 
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Surprising, but I'm not totally shocked. A DA doesn't do nothing for months on end with a slam dunk fact pattern. It's been my sense that most here have accepted civil claim allegations as if they are gospel. That's why we have trials, or don't have trials. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Pretty sure it was pending criminal cases. Civil cases come & go all the time. 
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I already said that if more criminal cases are presented and he is indicted for those, then yes, he can be suspended.  I have read that he cannot be suspended for the civil cases.

 
how quickly do you really think the NFL comes up with a decision on a suspension if they are still doing their investigation.....you would think that would be a pretty big factor in any type of trade, especially for a team like INDY that thinks they may be close....

and teams would want to know BEFORE the draft as well...

 
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Finally, justice was served...?

No sense whining about it now. Watson is going to be playing in 2022, and was arguably the best QB south of Green Bay in 2020. No indictment likely means a top-5 QB going forward. 

Carolina, Detroit, New Orleans, NY Giants, Philly, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Tampa Bay and Washington are all potential landing spots in my opinion.

Carolina=Probably going to be tough to win a bidding war, unless Houston wants players and not just picks. Not sure Houston would have interest in any players unless it was CMC, Horn, Brown or Moore. #6, 2023 1st, and Moore? 

Detroit=Has multiple 1sts from the Rams, and could use Goff as a throw in, if the Texans aren't sold on Mills. 32 pick and both 2023 1sts?

New Orleans=Has historically been very aggressive, and could see a window to still win the division with Brady gone. #18, 2023 1st, and Marcus Davenport?

NY Giants=Watson is one of the few QBs in the league with as much talent as Josh Allen. Would Daboll be willing to take the plunge? I would think #5 and #7 would get it done, but if the Giants didn't want to do that. Maybe one of those picks, and a 2023 1st, and Barkley?

Philly=Jalen Hurts had a solid season, but he also limits the offense, especially against good teams. Would Philly deal Hurts, #15, and #16? Or if Houston didn't want Hurts, would they do all 3 1sts? Watson behind a line like Philly's would be scary, after running for his life most of his Texans run.

Pittsburgh=Going to be tough with lesser value 1st rounders. #20, 2023 1st, and 2024 1st? Hard to see the Steelers doing that. Maybe a guy like Diontae Johnson would move the needle, but he's due a new deal soon. 

Seattle=I would have bought it more if they hadn't cut Wagner. That said, flipping the 9, and both 1's next year, would be a tough offer to beat. They'd basically be paying a 2023 1st, to get 7 years younger at QB. 

Tampa Bay=I could see them believing they are still in their Super Bowl window. Just not sure what they could offer to win a bidding war. Same issue the Steelers have, but maybe they throw in a good young player like a Devin White or possibly Chris Godwin?

Washington=I know they just traded for Wentz, but his contract is very easy to get out of, and he may even have value to Houston too. The #11 is in a nice spot, and they have young players they could throw into a deal. Wentz, #11, 2023 1st? Wentz, #11, Daron Payne, 2022 2nd?

Personally, I think the team with the best shot at getting him(if they want him) is Philly, followed by Detroit, and the Giants. 

 
Stinkin Ref said:
how quickly do you really think the NFL comes up with a decision on a suspension if they are still doing their investigation.....you would think that would be a pretty big factor in any type of trade, especially for a team like INDY that thinks they may be close....
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Again, I believe they cannot suspend him for the civil cases, only if more criminal cases are presented and he is indicted.  

Someone please check this?

 
JohnnyU said:
Again, I believe they cannot suspend him for the civil cases, only if more criminal cases are presented and he is indicted.  

Someone please check this?
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He doesn't need criminal cases to violate the league's personal conduct policy. Zeke had no charges pressed and got 6 games. The NFL's investigation will make their own determination outside of both the criminal and civil cases.

 
CamelGod said:
He doesn't need criminal cases to violate the league's personal conduct policy. Zeke had no charges pressed and got 6 games. The NFL's investigation will make their own determination outside of both the criminal and civil cases.
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I disagree.  I believe it is in the current collective bargaining agreement they can't suspend because of civil cases.

 
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JohnnyU said:
I disagree.  I believe it is in the current collective bargaining agreement they can't suspend because of civil cases.
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I remember something along those lines form the last CBA, in reference to why Tyreek Hill wasn't suspension eligible without criminal charges.

 
JohnnyU said:
I already said that if more criminal cases are presented and he is indicted for those, then yes, he can be suspended.  I have read that he cannot be suspended for the civil cases.
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It’s not “for the civil cases” though.

 it’s if they NFL investigation determines that there are credible allegations of assault. 

he 100% absolutely can and likely will be suspended in 2022 for his actions. 

 
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Tried to find more info on the current CBA’s policy, but searches pretty much only bring up articles on Ridley’s recent gambling suspension/violation of policy. I thought the NFL could still investigate on their own and suspend 6 games per the Personal Conduct Policy regardless of how the criminal stuff resolves. This is what happened to Zeke. But that is from before the newest CBA so it could have changed since then.

My guess is some sort of 6 game or half season suspension or Exempt List, something that at least looks like the NFL is sending a message.

 
travdogg said:
They giving up Quenton Nelson? Because the Vikings aren't giving up Cousins for anything less than a 1st+ or an elite player.
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2nd or 3rd this year and 1st next year 

Then if Im Minnesota i trade lower pick for Mariota as a bridge and use my 2 firsts next year on a rookie QB.

 
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Buckna said:
Tried to find more info on the current CBA’s policy, but searches pretty much only bring up articles on Ridley’s recent gambling suspension/violation of policy. I thought the NFL could still investigate on their own and suspend 6 games per the Personal Conduct Policy regardless of how the criminal stuff resolves. This is what happened to Zeke. But that is from before the newest CBA so it could have changed since then.

My guess is some sort of 6 game or half season suspension or Exempt List, something that at least looks like the NFL is sending a message.
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I’m betting 6. That’s what was mentioned a while back with this stuff for violation of the PCP. I don’t see how that’s changed. 

 
JohnnyU said:
I disagree.  I believe it is in the current collective bargaining agreement they can't suspend because of civil cases.
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I think it's going to be similar to what happened with AB when he had a lingering civil case.

The league will investigate and whatever they decide on a suspension they will include language stating "if any new information becomes available" they reserve the right to suspend.

To be clear he'd not be suspended because of the civil cases, just what the investigation of those charges merit.

 
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