DropKick
Footballguy
Not sure how much the league takes it under consideration, but he just sat out a season.
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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Maybe he cares about the quality of the WRs he plays with more than anything else? A big tipping point with Houston was them dealing Hopkins, and then subsequently letting Fuller walk.
He'd have Metcalf, Lockett, and Fant in Seattle. 3 deep that's arguably the best trio of his career, even if none of them are peak Hopkins good.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Total shark move if Seattle can move three 1sts and two 2nds for Watson, plus still have Fant and that DL they picked up.
Basically moving their future 1st to swap wilson for Watson, plus Fant.
Shark move assuming no mega suspension that is
Basically moving their future 1st to swap wilson for Watson, plus Fant.
Shark move assuming no mega suspension that is
-OZ-
Footballguy
Right. But he wasn’t charged. That’s what I was referencing.
i don’t see how he goes without any suspension. Maybe if they want to consider last year as the discipline but I wouldn’t think that would cut it.
-OZ-
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
I mean it just says the Hawks will trade for him. Doesn't mean he'll accept going there.menobrown said:
I must say I would not be shocked if SEA is in on the Watson trade talks but not as the team getting Watson, as a third team in the trade and the one getting Jalen Hurts.
Now I've heard this absolutely zero places, just would not be shocked because if Philly got Watson they'd want to move Hurts to help them get picks for a package and based on salary, leadership and the playing style that Carroll prefers Hurts seems like a perfect fit.
Still have a hard time thinking Watson would want to go to Seattle. Read something a few hours ago that someone in Watson's camp is saying he's looking for good OL, good defense and coach. Maybe Seattle has the coach.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Washington fans kicking their front office right now. What could go wrong, change your name to commanders and trade for Watson. That’s a great off season.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
That's gonna be tough when a team theoretically has to give up a ton of assets to get him.
How bout.....my Browns!!!!! Good OL, good and improving D.....coach might be good who knows yet.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Getting Watson would have more then made up for the other mistake but as is the culture that has existed in Washington has made them essentially unable to take on a player of this magnitude with this type of off the field issue at this time. They just can't, but if the could their fans(and Rivera) would rejoice.
Seems like most people I pay any attention to are floating CAR and SEA as the favorites but you are right the Browns meet a lot of his criteria and some are reporting them as a darkhorse. Now with them it's a matter of if they could pull it off without crushing their core.
That's why I keep thinking of Philly. And maybe Watson does not want them, he did not last year, and I have no idea how he feels about their coach, OL or D. But it is a playoff team that has draft picks and Hurts to put a package together that would not crush and already existing playoff teams core.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Posted this in the Eagles thread because Howie sent someone last year down not this year like some reported and when the PI came back they immediately lost interest in Watson.
Sounds like Team personal departments who sent their own PI's to check on Watson are not happy. Saw something on Twitter today that backs up what I heard from an Eagles stand point and sounds like a ton of teams feel similar. Teams aren't happy how Watson handled this lacking responsibility, contrite or willing to accept he's in the wrong. If he did this sounds like more teams would be comfortable with him. HOU is also not happy with him as apparently Watson may have lied to them about the situation to begin with as well. He lacked acknowledging the victims and his lack of understanding the severity of the situation
Civil settlements still need to be made and teams are not willing to pay what is needed to deal with those distractions. Watson from a legal standpoint is doing what you'd expect an accused to do from legal standpoints though.
Here's the link to the twitter account. Its a good account with a guy who has ties to the Andy Reid Eagles staff as well as Eagles FO and a ton of insight. If you are a football junkie into learning about route concepts and other things this is a good account to follow.
NFL Teams send their own PI's to investigate Watson and come away very concerned
DJackson10
Footballguy
They want to move Hurts in any deal for a new QB because they don't want another QB situation like they had with Wentz hurts. Want to start fresh. Watson apparently already told HOU he wouldn't accept a trade to Philly
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Cant say I wouldn't be scared poopless that Watson is done with his happy endings. It's not like theres no risk even if this whole thing clears up.
Thanks and no disrespect to you but I don't but this report and it does not jive with multiple other plugged in people's reporting. They all say as you are here that the Eagles sent people to Houston to investigate but it was Watson saying no to them that was the issue at the time. Still might be.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Most teams don't indulge all their info especially this. Most will hold it tight to the vest. If a team is willing to pay for Watson they will. I've learned with knowing people in the NFL that 95% of the time most insiders don't have all the answers and throwing stuff up on a wall hoping it sticks. Not to go into too much detail but I'll take Carson Wentz's character issues. A lot of it is pretty false and has been debunked by teammates. Most in Indy media apparently seem to hate him because of the Vaccination issue so they were always looking for an excuse to bad mouth him. Carson is a weird dude and does stuff to not help his image sure but he's no where near as bad as the guy the media says.
My Coworkers Son was one of the Eagles coaching staff guys from day 1 Wentz was there and what I've heard from people inside is completely different then what a lot of the media has. This same coach is now in Hou and has said similar and HOU wants to rid themselves of him as soon as possible. They have not liked how he's handled the situation and other teams are coming away with similar stuff. The person who Told me Watson may have lied initial to the team isn't the same person on staff however.
We'll see what happens though eventually. I was just passing off info I had and what I saw online that confirmed what I had been told already. And I'm pretty well connected to two Eagles beat guys as one lives near me and a client of mine.
DJackson10
Footballguy
If what I heard/read is remotely true that he doesn't seem to accept accountability here nor the severity I doubt he's learned his lesson.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I served on a grand jury for a year. Doubt that most have done so or know anything about a grand jury or when a grand jury is called-in to hear a case.
We only had one case the year I served. It was a formality. The prosecution doesn't call for a grand jury unless they have a slam-dunk with extenuating circumstances.
In our case the detective in-charge got in trouble for unrelated things and was not available to be called as a witness. The prosecutor had everything for a conviction but could not go through regular channels because the over-riding evidence would have gotten tossed out due to the 'lead detective issues', a perfect scenario for a grand jury who hear a case because they decide IF THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO GO TO TRIAL.
That is the main purpose of a grand jury. NOT to DECIDE a case, but to hear the evidence and decide if there is enough or strong-enough evidence to go to trial.
Having gone through the process I know a prosecutor won't go through the time/expense/and considerable trouble of calling-in a grand jury unless they know they have a slam-dunk case so how did Watson get off?
PFT spells it out.
When I saw this, I thought 'something is rotten in Denmark' if they had 5 witnesses and only let one testify but PFT gives a good explanation.
Good read.
Deshaun Watson grand jury wanted to hear from only one alleged victim
... As we’ve previously explained, indictments often hinge on the zeal applied by the prosecutor. If the prosecutor wants to indict a suspect, it’s not hard to do — since the defendant has no representation in the process. If the prosecutor doesn’t want to indict a suspect, it’s also not hard to do. The prosecutor controls what is and isn’t presented, and a skilled prosecutor can nudge a grand jury in a desired direction.
So why wouldn’t the prosecutor in this case not want an indictment of Watson? Possibly, she truly believed no crimes had been committed. It’s also possible that she believed she would not be able to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt at trial, even if she believed that Watson had crossed the line.
There’s a fundamental difference between factual guilt and legal guilt. Plenty of people are factually guilty, but the court system can’t prove that they are legally guilty. As to Watson, the criminal process has ended. On the civil side, 22 cases remain. In one or more of those cases, a jury eventually could conclude that he violated the legal rights of the women who are suing him, under the much lower legal standard of preponderance of the evidence.
-----------------
Excellent summary.
Watson still faces SUBSTANTIAL civil cases and will almost certainly have this hanging over his head and get an NFL suspension.
The thing is even if he gets a year suspension he's so young and talented that someone will pull the trigger and get a hell of a QB.
We only had one case the year I served. It was a formality. The prosecution doesn't call for a grand jury unless they have a slam-dunk with extenuating circumstances.
In our case the detective in-charge got in trouble for unrelated things and was not available to be called as a witness. The prosecutor had everything for a conviction but could not go through regular channels because the over-riding evidence would have gotten tossed out due to the 'lead detective issues', a perfect scenario for a grand jury who hear a case because they decide IF THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO GO TO TRIAL.
That is the main purpose of a grand jury. NOT to DECIDE a case, but to hear the evidence and decide if there is enough or strong-enough evidence to go to trial.
Having gone through the process I know a prosecutor won't go through the time/expense/and considerable trouble of calling-in a grand jury unless they know they have a slam-dunk case so how did Watson get off?
PFT spells it out.
When I saw this, I thought 'something is rotten in Denmark' if they had 5 witnesses and only let one testify but PFT gives a good explanation.
Good read.
Deshaun Watson grand jury wanted to hear from only one alleged victim
... As we’ve previously explained, indictments often hinge on the zeal applied by the prosecutor. If the prosecutor wants to indict a suspect, it’s not hard to do — since the defendant has no representation in the process. If the prosecutor doesn’t want to indict a suspect, it’s also not hard to do. The prosecutor controls what is and isn’t presented, and a skilled prosecutor can nudge a grand jury in a desired direction.
So why wouldn’t the prosecutor in this case not want an indictment of Watson? Possibly, she truly believed no crimes had been committed. It’s also possible that she believed she would not be able to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt at trial, even if she believed that Watson had crossed the line.
There’s a fundamental difference between factual guilt and legal guilt. Plenty of people are factually guilty, but the court system can’t prove that they are legally guilty. As to Watson, the criminal process has ended. On the civil side, 22 cases remain. In one or more of those cases, a jury eventually could conclude that he violated the legal rights of the women who are suing him, under the much lower legal standard of preponderance of the evidence.
-----------------
Excellent summary.
Watson still faces SUBSTANTIAL civil cases and will almost certainly have this hanging over his head and get an NFL suspension.
The thing is even if he gets a year suspension he's so young and talented that someone will pull the trigger and get a hell of a QB.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
@Bracie Smathers
Watson missed all of 2021, might miss 2022, we're talking by the middle of 2023 that Watson will not have taken a live NFL snap in over 30 months? That's not good IMO although I know he's young.
Watson missed all of 2021, might miss 2022, we're talking by the middle of 2023 that Watson will not have taken a live NFL snap in over 30 months? That's not good IMO although I know he's young.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Doesn't matter how much time he's missed, how long of a suspension and the PR hit is what teams calling are calculating.
He's a YOUNG NFL FRANCHISE QB.
Look how much Seattle got for Wilson who forced his way out where they got LESS than what other teams were willing to pay.
How many times have YOUNG NFL FRANCHISE QBs become available in trades?
The only thing CLOSE was Jay Cutler but that was more of a Josh McDaniel's blunder who had forced HC AND GM powers and had control where he had eyes for Tim Tebow in the draft and thought he was smarter than everyone else.
McDaniel didn't get as much as a skilled GM could for Cutler and he got two-1st round picks plus a 'decent starter QB in Orton' and a 3rd rounder thrown-in. Cutler was not as talented as Watson.
THIS IS UNPRECIDENTED. We haven't seen anything like this.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Jay Cutler (25 years old when traded) first four years in the league:
- 81 TDs
- 63 INTs
- 12,690 Pass Yards
- 1,775 attempts
- 1,098 completions
- 61.8 Completion Percentage
- 596 Rush Yards
- 4 Rush TDs
- 32 Fumbles
- 5 Fumbles Lost
- 104 TDs
- 36 INTs
- 14,539 Pass Yards
- 67.8 Completion Percentage
- 1,677 Rush Yards
- 17 Rush TDs
- 30 Fumbles
- 3 Fumbles Lost
The two issues that are different and hanging over him are:
- Suspension
- PR hit
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Yup that thing is ignored all the time due to the union having zero backbone.JohnnyU said:
He sat out out the 2021 season but was paid so the NFL will not consider that anytime served but it seems to be in the eyes of the public court; which is what's important to the NFL now.
I already know the NFL will literally wait till like training camps to announce their decision even though they must know what their going to do right now... they had months to debate what will happen if he hasn't charged
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babydemon90
Footballguy
Thats why I quoted the NFL policyJohnnyU said:
BoltBacker
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
That part is all speculation though. Guys miss a full year to injury all the time, and in this case you don't even have to believe the reports and "Rehab is going GREAT!"' because there is no rehab involved. If anything he's avoided an entire year of getting hit by defenders.
Watson is worth a boatload even just for a chance he'll play. Of course the way punishment is doled out in the NFL, apparently some combination of using a magic 8 ball and goodell using a mood ring, we really have no idea what the NFL ruling will be. It's shocking to me HOU payed him his full salary to sit on his couch and play Halo Infinite for an entire year. Between that decision and HOU hiring Lovie Smith as HC to quell a lawsuit against the league it seems like HOU is just a puppet organization to keep the league out of trouble.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
By Basically pressuring the Texans to bench him all of last yr and then not even attempting to suspend him the NFL would look like a horse's ###... They will throw down like 6 games around training camp, the union will fight and get it down between 2 to 4. They'll tell Watson to shut and be happy your back... or continue to fight it and there will be more leaks. This way the NFL can hold its head high and continue to say they hold themselves above the lawJohnnyU said:
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think he's gotten the message now. THOSE are only allowed for OWNERS.... not PLAYERS. After all the poor decisions made by the owners don't reflect poorly on the shield at all(just ask a WAS fan).
It's almost as if there were a separate set of rules/laws in this country based on your income.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
If Watson is available to play again I don't think anyone will remember the two third rounders spent on Wentz, but more importantly HOU will have no interest in receiving third rounders back for Watson.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
That article making a huge reach saying Washington is out of the mix. I highly doubt because they have Wentz they won't still look into Watson. Why wouldn't they?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I suppose the NFL has that loophole of conduct detrimental to the team. I don't know what they can and can't do.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
I believe the failure to indict has in fact clarified things....Silver & Black said:
The Cutler deal was McDaniels' best move. That was 100% a good move by the Broncos. The issue was replacing him with Tebow.
Agree that Cutler wasn't even remotely as good as Watson. Many (myself included as a Bears fan) thought the Bears grossly overpaid for Cutler, and weren't sure if he was a franchise guy at the time, or just a guy who had a decent stat line in a great situation. The latter proved to be true, and it wasn't surprising at all.
Anyway, I basically agree with everything else you said, other than the Cutler trade being a blunder by McDaniels.
sounds like the prosecutor knew from day 1 he had no case, yet had tremendous political pressure to bring charges to appease the Me Too crowd
so bring the charges and throw it over the fence to the grand jury to be the bad guy for not prosecuting.
However, the prosecutor helped the jurors see the light on lack of evidence to prove any actual crime,
BigJim®
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
You are saying that the Me Too movement holds sooo much political power that it forces budget cutting governments and over-worked court systems to waste countless hours/dollars to make a political statement?
That the entire case with 20 females coming forward with similar stories is some sort of conspiratorial cynical political statement?
OK.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m skeptical. They have a lot more holes than QB. It makes no sense for them to bring in Watson and still have the same issues that they had with Wilson. e.g. an inability to protect the QB, very little to no pass rush, a weak secondary, and a relatively weak LB corps. Selling off all the draft capital they just acquired to bring in Watson (who may only play 1/2 a season) would be insane. They’d win no more games with Watson than they would have with Wilson under those circumstances.
Plus Watson would have to waive his no-trade clause to go to a team with little chance of winning on a roster full of holes in a brutal division.
IMO he’ll go to CAR. The window to winning is wide open without Brees, no Brady, and an aging Ryan. CAR has the draft capital to deal, plus they can include CMC & free up some cash. They have talent at WR & TE, and they have a defense that’s a couple pieces away.
and not for nothing, Watson is very familiar/comfortable with the Carolinas from his youth.
That’s the smartest landing spot, IMO.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Why would they? They just addressed the QB situation to open their window for a chance to win in a somewhat weak division.
Now they’re gonna hamstring the rest of the roster by dealing away all their picks to sabotage themselves?
It makes a lot more sense for WAS to not deal for Watson than it does for them to deal for him.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They can suspend anyone for cause of a violation of the personal conduct policy.
This has been said quite a few times. Credibly being accused of sexual assault = violation of the PCP.
if the NFL’s internal investigation concludes that Watson’s conduct was unbecoming an NFL player (and 22 civil suits for sexual assault *definitely* brings unwanted attention to the league) then they can suspend him, regardless of whether the civil suits are settled and regardless of whether the GJ indicted him.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
You think that everyone is on one side of some Me Too fence?
Prosecutors are motivated to win prosecutions. That is how they get elected.
PFT made the case that the prosecutor decided they didn't want to prosecute and lose since have an airtight case where the standard of proof is without a reasonable doubt.
No fence, no movement. A logical explanation IMHO.
It will be an ongoing PR nightmare and he will be suspended. Those two things are what teams will have to figure out when making offers because he has huge upside when/if he makes it back to the field.
Even if he's gone for another year, the upside is a young NFL franchise QB. The likes of which many teams have never had under center.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
An excellent point that I haven’t seen made until your post.
Sexual sadism or sexual proclivity addiction is a legit thing. A tiger doesn’t change his stripes. There is a significantly higher than zero chance that a team trades for him & he gets caught slappity slapping his junk on someone again in a non-consensual manner.
One would think that after being caught, someone would be smart enough not to do it again - but it’s not about being smart. Sex addicts re-offend often.
I’m not saying it’s gonna happen, but it is a consideration.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Has anyone had a source within the Watson camp about where he wants to go? The last thing I heard was Miami with Flores that was reported last year. Watson has veto power for all trades due to his no-trade clause, so even if the Panthers offer 100 1st round picks, if he doesn't want to go play for a team with a crap O-line and a coach that's about to be fired, then it won't happen.
Teams I've seen listed as "interested in Watson" (not sure of accuracy): Panthers, Seahawks, Saints, Steelers, Eagles, Browns, Bucs. Almost all of those teams have bad offensive lines, questionable coaching, or just aren't ready to compete for a championship (thus why they need a franchise QB).
Teams I've seen listed as "interested in Watson" (not sure of accuracy): Panthers, Seahawks, Saints, Steelers, Eagles, Browns, Bucs. Almost all of those teams have bad offensive lines, questionable coaching, or just aren't ready to compete for a championship (thus why they need a franchise QB).
- Best O-line: Eagles, 2nd goes to Browns
- Best Chance to Win: Browns
- Best Coaches: Steelers (biased)
