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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (3 Viewers)

Hot Sauce Guy said:
Remarkably, epically, historically terrible team management here. The contract itself is insane, but how did they not know there are 3x as many women as initially alleged when paying out all that $?

The whole thing is insane. 
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Just to be clear, the 66 number is the total number of woman that gave Deshaun massages over a 17 month period. It is not being alleged that he sexually assaulted 66 woman. 15 are women who came out in support of Deshaun.  

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Maybe if the Browns decide to back away from Watson (not saying they will) this will help them recover something back from Houston if they file a grievance?
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Only if Houston knew about anything they didn’t disclose. Even then probably not unless they deliberately hid information. (And I’m not even sure if that would do it). The Browns had every chance to either wait or do their due diligence. To be clear here, I mean the interested teams could wait for everything to settle down or next year for a rookie. (Or had traded less for Russell)

Capella said:
We need to talk about how badly Cleveland handled this. Not only the ridiculous contract but all those draft picks. Houston management must be howling at them. 
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Shocking  they’re such a well run franchise!

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
I'm not trying to be a difficult but, I still don't really get what you are saying and there's no real way to circumvent the prostitution issue by doing it once and moving onto the next one.

But once again you are missing the entire issue that forms the basis of these lawsuits and the criminal charges that were filed. These WERE NOT prostitutes. They are claiming to be legit message therapists that Watson treated as if they were prostitutes by unwelcomingly exposing himself to them. Maybe that was part of the thrill for him because if he wanted to pay actual prostitutes I'm pretty sure he could afford to. 

Anyway, I won't beat this to death - and honestly I have no problem with Browns' fans that want to continue to support the team despite him being on it. I did so when Vick joined the Jets. Additionally, I like a few musicians that aren't very good people so I get seperating the "artist" from the "person". However, what I do find laughable is some of the ways fans are pretending he didn't do anything bad at all. Listen none of us know for sure what happened but to pretend this is just some huge unfortunate coincidence or that its some gigantic shakedown by a very respected and successful attorney (who does not need the money) despite all the logical evidence is a bit odd to me. 
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No worries.  Let me see if I can clarify.  No one is claiming anything regarding prostitution, especially not me.  The thought came to me that MAYBE the reason for a new therapist each time is that he could maintain that he never paid for a sexual experience, that each of those was gratis and consensual. Once it did take place, and he went back to the same one, a criminal case could be made against him that the money he paid that time came with the expectation.  

 
Browns didn't have every chance to wait.  Do you know teams like Atlanta and others were trying to trade for Watson at the same time if the Browns waited they would have never got him.  They are trying to acquire a franchise changing QB of course they are going to take all the risks to get that after how many years of losing ?

 
Dez said:
Browns didn't have every chance to wait.  Do you know teams like Atlanta and others were trying to trade for Watson at the same time if the Browns waited they would have never got him.  They are trying to acquire a franchise changing QB of course they are going to take all the risks to get that after how many years of losing ?
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sure. Then they accept the risk 🤷

 
dhockster said:
Just to be clear, the 66 number is the total number of woman that gave Deshaun massages over a 17 month period. It is not being alleged that he sexually assaulted 66 woman. 15 are women who came out in support of Deshaun.  
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Ah - yes that is an important distinction. 

That said, it is also an inordinate number of massages. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Ah - yes that is an important distinction. 

That said, it is also an inordinate number of massages. 
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An inordinate number of massage therapists. Not an inordinate amount of massages for a pro athlete to take care of his body. Of course Deshaun's deposition indicated that the training of his Masseuses was not a priority for him.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Ah - yes that is an important distinction. 

That said, it is also an inordinate number of massages. 
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Julio Jones said a few years ago that he would get a deep massage regularly and that it was in his opinion the best way to heal after the punishment of playing.   I'm pretty sure he just used the team's massage therapist and didn't hire 66 different ones.

 
wgoldsph said:
Julio Jones said a few years ago that he would get a deep massage regularly and that it was in his opinion the best way to heal after the punishment of playing.   I'm pretty sure he just used the team's massage therapist and didn't hire 66 different ones.
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Really, if most of us were multimillionaire athletes we’d be getting a lot more massages. And more sex. Just not together, usually. 

 
dhockster said:
An inordinate number of massage therapists. Not an inordinate amount of massages for a pro athlete to take care of his body. Of course Deshaun's deposition indicated that the training of his Masseuses was not a priority for him.
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Right. An inordinate number of massage therapists, where training or experience were apparently not requirements. 

 
wgoldsph said:
Julio Jones said a few years ago that he would get a deep massage regularly and that it was in his opinion the best way to heal after the punishment of playing.   I'm pretty sure he just used the team's massage therapist and didn't hire 66 different ones.
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This is the important part, not the number of massages. It’s what I meant to say.

If I could afford it I would get a massage every day. Twice a day. 

But my priority would be on quality of massage. Could be a 60 year old Russian chick with a mustache, long as she got into those muscles and I’d stick with her, because when ya find a good professional [anything] you go back again and again. Reliability is key. 

“Ejaculation” wouldn’t be part of a recap of events, either. 

 
Everything I’ve read the last year since this has come out is that most pros have one massage therapist they use, or they use the team one, for the reasons said above. They’re comfortable with the person they use. Watson has a mental disease. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Could be a 60 year old Russian chick with a mustache...

“Ejaculation” wouldn’t be part of a recap of events, either. 
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I dunno, once I got a glimpse of that mustache, all dewy with sweat, I'd be tempted to get in "happy baby pose".

I think I am going to use happy baby pose a lot, from now on. For everything.It was the name of my REM cover band in high school.

 
dhockster said:
Just to be clear, the 66 number is the total number of woman that gave Deshaun massages over a 17 month period. It is not being alleged that he sexually assaulted 66 woman. 15 are women who came out in support of Deshaun.  
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Came out in support at the request of Watson’s lawyer. So they were paid to come out in support.

 
Didn't take long for this whole thing to get stood on its head did it?  Not even two months.  Wonder where it'll be two more months from now.

Soulfly3 said:
kept all their studs. 3 firsts.

EASY
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Dr. Octopus said:
So even if the Browns could get out of the deal with Watson they’d still have lost all of those draft assets for nothing. I know I’m way ahead of myself on that but it would be one of the most bizarre sports stories of all-time.
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
dhockster said:
An inordinate number of massage therapists. Not an inordinate amount of massages for a pro athlete to take care of his body. Of course Deshaun's deposition indicated that the training of his Masseuses was not a priority for him.
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Right. An inordinate number of massage therapists, where training or experience were apparently not requirements. 
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It has said more than once that there were an INORDINATE NUMBER of massage therapists.

NY Times article states that 'many' (multiple) of the women in those massage sessions were not licensed massage therapists.

New York Times investigation into Deshaun Watson provides new details

... Watson paid a spa owner, who connected him to multiple non-licensed women for massages

------------------------------------

The number wasn't provided but NY Times reports that a 'multiple' of hose women were not licensed massage therapists.  

 
Bracie Smathers said:
It has said more than once that there were an INORDINATE NUMBER of massage therapists.

NY Times article states that 'many' (multiple) of the women in those massage sessions were not licensed massage therapists.

New York Times investigation into Deshaun Watson provides new details

... Watson paid a spa owner, who connected him to multiple non-licensed women for massages

------------------------------------

The number wasn't provided but NY Times reports that a 'multiple' of hose women were not licensed massage therapists.  
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Now, what is unclear to me is whether the spa owner was pimping out these girls or not . . . .

 
GregR said:
Didn't take long for this whole thing to get stood on its head did it?  Not even two months.  Wonder where it'll be two more months from now.
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I’m not claiming any special knowledge but it just seems incredibly unlikely the Browns could get out of the contract based on something that happened since it was signed. How could two more civil suits, in addition to the 22 that were pending, trigger an ‘out’ clause in the largest guaranteed contract in NFL history? It’s not believable for me. 

 
june 2022 and there are ppl who legitimately believe that all these women are/were RMTs? :lol:

and that doesn't even matter in the end... but really? the guy was trying to fly women in to have sex. what's so hard to understand about that part of the story? he has money. doesnt have to go anywhere in public to make it happen. the team and spa provided the logistics, his role was to seal the deal. 

weird, creepy, whatever... yes. but we're 2yrs in and ppl are STILL asking "why did he have to fly in massage therapists?"

we know the answer. everyone does. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
weird, creepy, whatever... yes.
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Where do you draw the line?  That's the question, isn't it?  For me, it tends toward the "Who cares, it's just sex." end of the spectrum.  For others, it's more the other direction where anything regarding sex is abhorrent. Right?  But there's more to consider.  What is the NFL's stance on such things and do they really want to establish a hard line precedent when they have owner(s) (ie Kraft) engaged in identical activity?  Does the players' association want to allow them full authority?  Also, there is the question of "damages".  To what extent has the NFL been hurt?  Lot's to think on, if you're the league.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I’m not claiming any special knowledge but it just seems incredibly unlikely the Browns could get out of the contract based on something that happened since it was signed. How could two more civil suits, in addition to the 22 that were pending, trigger an ‘out’ clause in the largest guaranteed contract in NFL history? It’s not believable for me. 
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Agreed.  That's what has me thinking (hoping) that they did their homework and ran things past the commissioner before pulling the trigger on the deal.  I have confidence in the FO.  Haslam remains the wild card, though, and this whole thing smacks of his involvement.

 
daveR said:
Where do you draw the line? 
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When I hear a credible report that he forced someone into sexual activity against their will and/or threatened them in any way professionally or personally if they spurned his advances.

At this point I think he's guilty of being creepy, weird, narcissistic and improperly exposing himself. I do not think that he has caused any significant  long term damages to any of the women.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I’m not claiming any special knowledge but it just seems incredibly unlikely the Browns could get out of the contract based on something that happened since it was signed. How could two more civil suits, in addition to the 22 that were pending, trigger an ‘out’ clause in the largest guaranteed contract in NFL history? It’s not believable for me. 
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What's unlikely to me is that the Browns would want to get out of the contract, that's what makes no sense to me.

People are funny sometimes. They trade for him and give him most guarantees in history when they are fully aware he has 22 pending lawsuits. But then suddenly because it's 24 they want out and just lose the picks? And people are buying this stuff, like 23 or 24 was the tipping point but 22 was in the Goldilocks zone?  Come on already.

 
I have a sister that is a registered Massage therapist. She has been doing this full time for over 20 years. I asked her how many times a guy has ever done anything like DW has. Answer = that’s sick! Did he really do that? And that’s a hard ZERO for those events. 
 

Maybe it’s the Canadian culture, dunno, but this is not normal. 

 
-OZ- said:
Only if Houston knew about anything they didn’t disclose. Even then probably not unless they deliberately hid information. (And I’m not even sure if that would do it). The Browns had every chance to either wait or do their due diligence. To be clear here, I mean the interested teams could wait for everything to settle down or next year for a rookie. (Or had traded less for Russell)

Shocking  they’re such a well run franchise!
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Trade for Wilson when he didn't want to go to Cleveland.

How does that work?

 
daveR said:
Where do you draw the line?  That's the question, isn't it?  For me, it tends toward the "Who cares, it's just sex." end of the spectrum.  For others, it's more the other direction where anything regarding sex is abhorrent. Right?  But there's more to consider.  What is the NFL's stance on such things and do they really want to establish a hard line precedent when they have owner(s) (ie Kraft) engaged in identical activity?  Does the players' association want to allow them full authority?  Also, there is the question of "damages".  To what extent has the NFL been hurt?  Lot's to think on, if you're the league.
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You continue to miss the point. This isn't about kinky sex fetishes alone. If that's all it was this would be over.

The women filling the claims against him did NOT want to engage in kinky sexual activities, even if Watson wanted to. It's really odd that you can't (or don't want to) see that. It's not about a guy that liked rub and tugs and went to the proper venue to get them - this is about an (alleged) predator bringing message therapists to him and (at best) exposing himself.

Let me put it this way, if your wife was a legit message therapist and she said while she was giving a message to this creep who took his towel off and started masturbating - you cool with that?

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
You continue to miss the point. This isn't about kinky sex fetishes alone the women filling the claims against him did NOT want to engage in kinky sexual activities even if Watson wanted to. It's really odd that you can't (or don't want to) see that. It's not about a guy that liked rub and tugs and went to the proper venue to get them - this is about an (alleged) predator.

Let me put it this way, if your wife was a legit message therapist and she said while she was giving a message this creep took his towel off and started masturbating - you cool with that?
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You're asking my opinion.  If it were my wife or daughter, etc., I would acknowledge that person's feelings, hug it out, and go on with life.  But then, I acknowledge that these days people engage in random hook-ups and such.  I also recognize that a desire for sex is a normal human drive that will manifest itself in varying ways depending on each individual. 

I am glad that the NFL's chief officer is female.  I think she may have a better perspective than me.

 
This has become a "How the world works" versus "How the world should work" conversation. Regarding the former, I have no idea if this guy will be prevented from throwing footballs because of this and I think that's a bit sad. Maybe I'm dating myself but disgraced public figures used to actually be harmed by that. Now? Who knows?

 
daveR said:
You're asking my opinion.  If it were my wife or daughter, etc., I would acknowledge that person's feelings, hug it out, and go on with life.  But then, I acknowledge that these days people engage in random hook-ups and such.  I also recognize that a desire for sex is a normal human drive that will manifest itself in varying ways depending on each individual. 

I am glad that the NFL's chief officer is female.  I think she may have a better perspective than me.
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You would be ok with someone that unwelcomingly whipped it out and started masturbating in front of your wife or daughter? I'm don't want to call you a liar but that's incredible.

 
Village Idiot said:
Trade for Wilson when he didn't want to go to Cleveland.

How does that work?
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$ 

honestly, I forgot Russell was smart enough to not want to pay in Cleveland. 
my point remains, they had options. Including Baker, who despite his flaws is still probably an above average starter. 

Marauder said:
Watson didn't want to go to Cleveland either but the $230mil guaranteed changed his mind.
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Yep 

 
candian fantasy guy said:
I have a sister that is a registered Massage therapist. She has been doing this full time for over 20 years. I asked her how many times a guy has ever done anything like DW has. Answer = that’s sick! Did he really do that? And that’s a hard ZERO for those events. 
 

Maybe it’s the Canadian culture, dunno, but this is not normal. 
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That was something that occurred to me reading the latest NYT article. I don't personally know any massage therapists, but I would imagine the vast majority of them absolutely hate the fact that people think "happy endings" are a normal thing, or that the work they do is in any way sexual. The fact that all these therapists are coming forward is almost an admission against interest on their part, because it does significant damage to their careers and the general image of their profession.

Also, as long as I'm pontificating on jobs that I have no direct knowledge of, my understanding of professional athletes and massages is that they typically find one therapist who knows them and their body well and stick with that person. The fact that Watson had 66 different therapists, all women, doesn't by itself prove anything, but it is hugely suggestive. 

 
daveR said:
You're asking my opinion.  If it were my wife or daughter, etc., I would acknowledge that person's feelings, hug it out, and go on with life.  
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ok then. You do that to my daughter, you won’t need to worry about suspensions. But then, she’s 8 and not a massage therapist. I’m not hugging the dude who sexually assaults my wife either, but you do you. 

 
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