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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (3 Viewers)

So are we to assume the other 42 massage therapists  played nice?
Since we have no indication other than that those massages were arranged and occurred, maybe we should quell our own biases/imaginations and assume only that 42 massages occurred where no allegation of inappropriate conduct was asserted.

 
Since we have no indication other than that those massages were arranged and occurred, maybe we should quell our own biases/imaginations and assume only that 42 massages occurred where no allegation of inappropriate conduct was asserted.
I was just asking.  Certainly high-profile professional athletes lead very different lives than the rest of us.

 
I’ve seen that said, but then wouldn’t it stand to reason that they would be entitled to review evidence that showed that Watson went afoul of the PCP? 
If the appeal is from Goodell's ruling on what punishment is appropriate based on the evidence presented before Robinson, that would not (unless there is an unusual rule at play) open the door to other evidence beyond what Robinson found as fact from the presentation to her and Goodell reviewed as the evidentiary record for suspension.

I also think, not having read the CPC, but based on Maurile's printing of it, that if Robinson finds facts 1 through 55 (or whatever) even asserted facts she discounts or dismisses are not properly considered on the appeal of a ruling by Goodell. She is the sole arbitrator of the facts in that entire proceeding.

 
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I could care less about the number 24, or 4, or any other number than 66.  Is the number 66 in question by either side?  It's a simple yes or no answer.
In your quest to crucify Watson, its seems you have reversed the importance of the 66 therapists.

If in fact there were 66 encounters,

that bolsters Watson's argument that he did nothing wrong and his actions were pretty commonly accepted.

of the 66, the NFL only deemed 4 cases worthy of presentation for discipline.

The other 62 (94%) interactions were not even deemed worthy of review, hence consisting of acceptable behavior 94% of the time. The 6% is likely to be viewed  as OK behavior as well by Robinson when she issues 0 penalty.

 
If the claim is that he did nothing wrong, surely any evidence to the contrary would be discoverable, no? 

I’ve seen differing opinions on this online, many from chrckmark attorneys, so I’m honestly not sure what to believe. 
believe what supports your agenda

it's worked well so far

 
In your quest to crucify Watson, its seems you have reversed the importance of the 66 therapists.

If in fact there were 66 encounters,

that bolsters Watson's argument that he did nothing wrong and his actions were pretty commonly accepted.

of the 66, the NFL only deemed 4 cases worthy of presentation for discipline.

The other 62 (94%) interactions were not even deemed worthy of review, hence consisting of acceptable behavior 94% of the time. The 6% is likely to be viewed  as OK behavior as well by Robinson when she issues 0 penalty.
At least once or twice a year, the local TV news will run a story about stolen cars. They always finish up by saying, "35% of the cars weren't even locked!" which of course means 65% WERE locked, but ended up stolen anyways.

 
You didn't quote me at all - I never said he faced 66 charges

Any man who engages with 66 different masseuses over a 17 month period is a sexual deviant.  No exceptions.  Deshaun is sick in the head.  I have already said, when it comes to FF, I have no morals.  I will roster murderers and rapists, if they help me win.  Was Charles Manson known as a murderer, or just sick in the head?
Both....

 
this is the only place I have gone to look at Watson stuff....I don't do twitter/social media or whatever so I really appreciate the different views in here and things people have added....

with that said....I do think at some point we (including me) have gone a little too far down the rabbit hole and lost touch with reality a little bit and what we are actually talking about...what can be "ruled on".... what was presented vs what wasn't....what can so and so factor in and what they can't....was it "criminal" or just creepy.....who can add more etc...going back and forth on some stuff that takes away from the actual things that this is all about.....

some/many women got/felt violated .....

if we all take a deep breath and take a step back and really look at what we are talking about...I think we would all probably come to the same conclusion....this dude at the very least did some pretty inappropriate stuff with several women and probably needs to suffer some consequences/punishment....

this type of behavior is not cool if you are a truck driver or a multi million dollar athlete....its not like this is all "made up" or some type of sci fi story ...no matter how you spin it or how deep you bury your head in the sand....his 20 settlements already tell you there was at least an "issue" of some sort....that needed to be paid off and tell 20 women to "go away" and sure as hell be "quiet".....the amount of smoke here means there was some fire....man to man....everybody on this site....you know it....you do....

 
the nfl wants him on the field...

...you think the nfl wants brisket v baker week 1? do you really?
We can see what the NFL thinks, they told us.

Look at the schedule and ask what the NFL was thinking when they scheduled nationally televised games for the Cleveland Browns this year.

The NFL puts the teams that they want to highlight for the season on prime time.

The only team with less nationally televised games than Cleveland for the 2022 season is Detroit.  We can figure out why the Lions are not spotlighted by the league, and we can also figure out why the NFL isn't spotlighting the Browns.

The NFL is all about maximizing their product which is not the talent on the field, it is the AUDIENCE who they sell to advertisers and who buy tickets/products.  

The league sent a loud message that they want to keep the Browns out of the national spotlight this season and it isn't too difficult to figure out why.

 
so the league thought the lions were good enough for hard knocks, but not primetime matches? odd.

anyways, why risk putting CLE in primetime if deshaun MIGHT have been (or could be) out for the season? for the purposes of cle v car, they (And we) should be praying deshaun and baker play. 

 
...why risk putting CLE in primetime if deshaun MIGHT have been (or could be) out for the season?
The rule was that every team MUST get at least one prime time game. 

From the looks of the schedule, the only teams who got less than three are Cleveland and Detroit and as you noted the Lions will be featured on Hard Knocks so every NFL team will get much more national coverage than the Browns.  

 
this is the only place I have gone to look at Watson stuff....I don't do twitter/social media or whatever so I really appreciate the different views in here and things people have added....

with that said....I do think at some point we (including me) have gone a little too far down the rabbit hole and lost touch with reality a little bit and what we are actually talking about...what can be "ruled on".... what was presented vs what wasn't....what can so and so factor in and what they can't....was it "criminal" or just creepy.....who can add more etc...going back and forth on some stuff that takes away from the actual things that this is all about.....

some/many women got/felt violated .....

if we all take a deep breath and take a step back and really look at what we are talking about...I think we would all probably come to the same conclusion....this dude at the very least did some pretty inappropriate stuff with several women and probably needs to suffer some consequences/punishment....

this type of behavior is not cool if you are a truck driver or a multi million dollar athlete....its not like this is all "made up" or some type of sci fi story ...no matter how you spin it or how deep you bury your head in the sand....his 20 settlements already tell you there was at least an "issue" of some sort....that needed to be paid off and tell 20 women to "go away" and sure as hell be "quiet".....the amount of smoke here means there was some fire....man to man....everybody on this site....you know it....you do....
so after taking a step back and climbing out of the rabbit hole,

you double down and jump in head first

cool

 
The rule was that every team MUST get at least one prime time game. 

From the looks of the schedule, the only teams who got less than three are Cleveland and Detroit and as you noted the Lions will be featured on Hard Knocks so every NFL team will get much more national coverage than the Browns.  


right. and what part of that doesnt make a lot of sense? watson could have had his name cleared and all 20+ women could have done an interview saying they made the story up, and there will still be backlash from it/trollinh/bad press.

they're doing the right thing. keep CLE out of primetime this season. by next, as long as nothing crazy pops up, theyll have plenty

got nothing to do w a 1 or 4pm game v carolin, where the former #1 drafted qb is going against the team that dumped him for the sexy but troubled qb

 
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what part of that doesnt make a lot of sense?
It makes perfect sense from the NFL's perspective since they get Cleveland's prime time games out of the way earlier in the season when they figured a suspension would keep Watson off the field.

They had no idea Mayfield would get traded back when they made the schedule, so their priority was keeping Watson out of the national TV spotlight.

They did not schedule Cleveland at Carolina back months ago in May knowing that Cleveland would deal Mayfield in July to Carolina in order to capitalize on a TV ratings bonanza.  

They will get ratings based on everyone rooting for Baker to beat the Browns because that is what the majority of NFL fans who aren't Browns fans want.  They don't need Watson to get ratings for that game and it wasn't known at the time they made the schedule where Bake would be playing.

 
? im not implying at all that the nfl knew that would be the matchup week 1

but now it is. so NOW, if you want the BEST DRAMA, and MOST EYES and most hype and type... you want baker v watson. not baker v josh rosen.

anyways, the nfl has no say anyways. once sue gives watson 0 games we can just enjoy. ;)  

 
We can see what the NFL thinks, they told us.

Look at the schedule and ask what the NFL was thinking when they scheduled nationally televised games for the Cleveland Browns this year.

The NFL puts the teams that they want to highlight for the season on prime time.

The only team with less nationally televised games than Cleveland for the 2022 season is Detroit.  We can figure out why the Lions are not spotlighted by the league, and we can also figure out why the NFL isn't spotlighting the Browns.

The NFL is all about maximizing their product which is not the talent on the field, it is the AUDIENCE who they sell to advertisers and who buy tickets/products.  

The league sent a loud message that they want to keep the Browns out of the national spotlight this season and it isn't too difficult to figure out why.
Color me skeptical. 

 
We can see what the NFL thinks, they told us.

Look at the schedule and ask what the NFL was thinking when they scheduled nationally televised games for the Cleveland Browns this year.

The NFL puts the teams that they want to highlight for the season on prime time.

The only team with less nationally televised games than Cleveland for the 2022 season is Detroit.  We can figure out why the Lions are not spotlighted by the league, and we can also figure out why the NFL isn't spotlighting the Browns.

The NFL is all about maximizing their product which is not the talent on the field, it is the AUDIENCE who they sell to advertisers and who buy tickets/products.  

The league sent a loud message that they want to keep the Browns out of the national spotlight this season and it isn't too difficult to figure out why.
I understand were you are coming from because I was thinking similar when I studied the Browns schedule for hints.

But the flaw in that theory is why schedule the Browns for MNF at all when they already got their prime time game they had to have and secondly why schedule it for week 8 when Watson at least has some potential to play if he got his suspension less then 7 games?

So really I think it would be as easy to look at that schedule and theorize the NFL has been planning for Watson to have a 6 game type suspension and be available for week 8.

 
so the league thought the lions were good enough for hard knocks, but not primetime matches? odd.
Lions are interesting with a charismatic coach and some young exciting players to watch. The teams in pre season hard knocks are often those types - interesting in some ways but not seen as a top contender. 

 
So really I think it would be as easy to look at that schedule and theorize the NFL has been planning for Watson to have a 6 game type suspension and be available for week 8.
I look at that schedule and think that the NFL just doesn’t want to have the Browns in prime time. Maybe they’re not as big a draw ratings-wise. They only had 3 prime time games last year. This seems like a conspiracy theory.  :shrug:  

 
If we take the gladiator mentality.....we will defend this dude till the end and find every reason to defend him and make him seem like an ok dude that we can invite over and can hang out with us and our daughters on the deck and bbq....as long as he plays on Sundays...

 
one thing that hasn’t been discussed much is what are the expectations once he sees the field again....

it feels like many think he just goes back to performing like nothing ever happened....

 
just trying to bring it back to what he did to these women....
Agreed.  I think we lose track of this.  Sure, I know there is no "smoking gun" but I don't need one, because I have a brain and common sense.  Anyone defending him is speaking as a lawyer and not a human being.

 
which is what, by the way?
man-

you are not paying attention

it's crystal clear from the evidence he has not seen, that

1. Watson physically abducted these therapists against their will,

2. locked them in a hotel room provided by the Houston Texan, specially designed for these events

3. forced them to sign an NDA after explaining the program and his intent to use a miniature towel,

4. then beat them mercilessly with his ding-a-ling

5. then finally released them, after which none of them felt compelled to report the horrors to the police

wake up!

 
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Agreed.  I think we lose track of this.  Sure, I know there is no "smoking gun" but I don't need one, because I have a brain and common sense.  Anyone defending him is speaking as a lawyer and not a human being.
So your argument is that those who have seen the events play out as they have...

- watched Watson settle with women AFTER, not BEFORE, his personal freedoms were at stake.  
- AFTER it was revealed that the NFL saw fit to only investigate 12 of the 22 women over a year long period.  
- AFTER it was further revealed that of those 12, they brought 5 of those cases in front of the arbiter.
- AFTER the lead investigator in this case testified that she assumed guilt from the outset of her investigation and furthermore stated that 'consent can not exist when power and influence are in the room'...(how then can powerful and influential people ever get consent)?
- AFTER a recording surfaced of a kid stating his mom initially was complimentary of Watson in their conversations after the massage, but later switched her account and tone after negative allegations surfaced about Watson.
- AFTER that number got whittled down to 4 because one of the NFL's cases was based off a media report and viewed as inadmissible.

But you have the brain and common sense?  Not sure you can call it that if you believe on Thursday what you believed on Tuesday, despite what you were told on Wednesday.

At the end of the day, there have been enough developments over the course of the last 3-4 months in this saga to cast legitimate doubt about the veracity of the accusations.  

I recognize that the topic of sexual assault and misconduct is a touchy one...one that brings forth lots of emotional judgment.  But an extraordinarily important pillar of our justice system that has existed since the late 19th century is the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty'

 
@JosinaAnderson

After telling me early last week a decision was not expected in the Deshaun Watson proceedings last week (but still saying 'never say never' as a tiny caveat), a league source says this morning 'it's possible. Not saying anything else.' That's all I got right now! #NoGuarantees

hashtag groundbreaking

 
@JosinaAnderson

After telling me early last week a decision was not expected in the Deshaun Watson proceedings last week (but still saying 'never say never' as a tiny caveat), a league source says this morning 'it's possible. Not saying anything else.' That's all I got right now! #NoGuarantees

hashtag groundbreaking
Josina Anderson appears desperate to post literally anything. Because holy crap that’s a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. 

 
putting them in a position where they felt offended/uncomfortable enough to file civil lawsuits against him and he agreed to pay them to be quiet about it and go away.....
Why did he pay them?  Because he has tons of money.

Why did they file civil suits against him?  Because he has tons of money.  

Why else did he pay them?  Because it saves/makes him more money in the long-run.  

 
Why did he pay them?  Because he didn't do anything wrong and has tons of money and just likes sharing it with random MT's.

Why did they file civil suits against him?  Because he is this innocent guy that has tons of money and these random MT's heard he likes to give MT's money out of the kindness of his heart if they just simply take him to court.

Why else did he pay them?  Because it saves/makes him more money in the long-run.  
fixed

 
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So your argument is that those who have seen the events play out as they have...

- watched Watson settle with women AFTER, not BEFORE, his personal freedoms were at stake.  
- AFTER it was revealed that the NFL saw fit to only investigate 12 of the 22 women over a year long period.  
- AFTER it was further revealed that of those 12, they brought 5 of those cases in front of the arbiter.
- AFTER the lead investigator in this case testified that she assumed guilt from the outset of her investigation and furthermore stated that 'consent can not exist when power and influence are in the room'...(how then can powerful and influential people ever get consent)?
- AFTER a recording surfaced of a kid stating his mom initially was complimentary of Watson in their conversations after the massage, but later switched her account and tone after negative allegations surfaced about Watson.
- AFTER that number got whittled down to 4 because one of the NFL's cases was based off a media report and viewed as inadmissible.

But you have the brain and common sense?  Not sure you can call it that if you believe on Thursday what you believed on Tuesday, despite what you were told on Wednesday.

At the end of the day, there have been enough developments over the course of the last 3-4 months in this saga to cast legitimate doubt about the veracity of the accusations.  

I recognize that the topic of sexual assault and misconduct is a touchy one...one that brings forth lots of emotional judgment.  But an extraordinarily important pillar of our justice system that has existed since the late 19th century is the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty'
Spoken like a true lawyer

 
My personal take on the situation is that there was no coercion, no threats, and no use of physical force.  I am aware that the civil suits say there was a fear of power by the MTs.  This, in my eyes, does not constitute malfeasance.  To be fair, I admit that the facts are unavailable to me and my opinion is based on leaks.  

 
this type of behavior is not cool if you are a truck driver or a multi million dollar athlete....its not like this is all "made up" or some type of sci fi story ...no matter how you spin it or how deep you bury your head in the sand....his 20 settlements already tell you there was at least an "issue" of some sort....that needed to be paid off and tell 20 women to "go away" and sure as hell be "quiet".....the amount of smoke here means there was some fire....man to man....everybody on this site....you know it....you do....
No matter how many times you say this it still doesn't make it true.  Settling with 20 plaintiffs does not mean in any way that he is guilty of anything.  

 
No matter how many times you say this it still doesn't make it true.  Settling with 20 plaintiffs does not mean in any way that he is guilty of anything.  
you are right.....what it really means is he totally innocent and didn't do anything wrong (x20).....let's go with that....

 
you are right.....what it really means is he totally innocent and didn't do anything wrong (x20).....let's go with that....
That is not correct either.  All it means is that factoring in all information from both sides they mutually agreed that was the most beneficial outcome for both of them.  It doesn't prove guilt or innocence.  

 
If we knew the terms of the settlements, we might be able to tentatively infer something about the strength or weakness of the claims.

We don't.

 
That is not correct either.  All it means is that factoring in all information from both sides they mutually agreed that was the most beneficial outcome for both of them.  It doesn't prove guilt or innocence.  
got it...."mutually beneficial".....

so why the need to include an NDA if this was the best outcome for both of them....I mean he didn't do anything wrong so why can't the plaintiffs get the money and then also be able tell the world their side of the harmless story...I mean, maybe someone would have paid them some money for their version of the events....the NDA is taking potential money out of their pockets, that doesn't sound very beneficial.....

 
got it...."mutually beneficial".....

so why the need to include an NDA if this was the best outcome for both of them....I mean he didn't do anything wrong so why can't the plaintiffs get the money and then also be able tell the world their side of the harmless story...I mean, maybe someone would have paid them some money for their version of the events....the NDA is taking potential money out of their pockets, that doesn't sound very beneficial.....
Maybe you should take the view that the plaintiffs had something to hide and hurried to settle because they had no chance at winning.  I don't believe that but they must have their reasons for settling.  Why can't we assume that they were just in it for a money grab and the fact the agreed to this settlement and the NDA associated with it proves that to be true?   You are basically making that leap to Watson being guilty just because he agreed to these settlements.  Why can't someone else make the leap that these plaintiffs had no case otherwise why would they settle?

 
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