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QB Drake Maye, NE (2 Viewers)
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Mayo said Maye is NE's 2nd best quarterback last night. Not sure he needs to announce much more beyond that. I don't believe Brissett left the field for treatment, and IIRC, he was still on the sidelines for the second half. If he had a serious injury, he would have gone back into the locker room and never come back. Mayo said Brissett would have been able to continue but he was coming out of the game after that drive anyway. Mayo spoke to Brissett this morning and the QB said he was good. Van Pelt has sounded like the plan is to stick with Brissett and that there hasn't really been a competition . . . so I would be really surprised if Maye starts any time soon unless there is an injury to Brissett (which there certainly is a chance of happening).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If Mayo really means this, he has a multiple personality disorder. Every other time he talks, he says something different. Van Pelt has said all summer long Brissett has been the starter, nothing has changed, and Maye has been making steady progress. Mayo has said that Van Pelt is the head coach of the offense. They collectively need to get their stories straight.x.com
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Maye ended the pre-season having played 60 plays. The Patriots last year averaged 60 plays per game . . . so he played the equivalent of one full game. In that time, NE put up 253 yards (4.2 yards per play) and 17 points. The Pats last year averaged 276 yards (4.6 yards per play) and 13.9 points per game. In 10 total drives with Maye, 6 drives ended in punts, and another ended in a 64-yard missed FG attempt. Maye also had 3 fumbles (that NE recovered). Mind you, Maye's numbers came against third string defenders. He had some good plays and flashed on occasion, but taking a cross-section of how the offense did in games (not great) and his performance from training camp (mixed reviews), I don't think the Pats will be in a rush to start him. Their OL looks putrid.
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Assuming Brissett is healthy, where would you put the over under for what week (and season) Maye is the starter?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That's tough to answer, as media types and fans would much rather have Maye start than Brissett. SI's Bert Breer has suggested that the plan is to sit Maye all season (he's tight with the new coaching staff). Who knows how valid that is and if the plan has since changed. I saw some feedback after last night's game that Brissett getting pounded and suffering a shoulder injury likely hurt Maye's chances of playing any time soon. The NE OL has issues that likely won't be easily fixed in the short term.
The answer may lie in milestones not exact dates. I think the OL needs to prove itself as being competent before they will want Maye to take live snaps. IRRC, the offensive line last night had 10 penalties, played a role in 2 fumbles, and got Brissett run over by a truck. The only time NE faced any legit NFL starters in the pre-season was a scrimmage against the Eagles, and the Pats allowed more sacks than they had completions. They've had injuries, they've shuffled guys around, and they openly suggested they will liberally use their waiver claim priority to bring in cuts from other teams. That can't be good.
The other milestone I think needs to happen is for Maye to get a better feel for what they want him to do with the offense. He's in a tough spot because he hasn't been practicing with the starters. They won't make a switch to him (by choice) until he starts getting reps with the starting offense. The next milestone would be for Maye to consistently outplay Brissett in practice (which really hasn't happened). There has also been some talk from beat guys wondering how well Maye can read defenses, so it's likely he will make a lot of typical rookie mistakes once he starts seeing live action.
There's no clear spot in the schedule to make a planned switch. Their bye isn't until Week 14. I suppose they could try to have him start the last 4 weeks (at ARI, at BUF, LAR, BUF) . . . but that seems late in the season. The other point in the season might be Week 9 with a softer landing spot (at TEN, at CHI, LAR). They may have no choice but to start him if Brissett gets hurt. I doubt they would play Milton over Maye . . . and Zappe may not be on the team after tomorrow.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
They have 3 starters on the OL. Andrews (who's absence was at least part of the issue with the snaps yesterday), Onwenu and Sow seems like if he's healthy, a starter quality player.
Onwenu playing out of position a bit at RT is sub optimal.
LT is a PROBLEM that won't be fixed until April 24, 2025.
You'd think that finding passable Guard play out of the rest of these dudes, someone would stick but that's not really happening. Bedard is steaming today and I don't blame him. Okorafor and Robinson took an elephant sized caca on the field last night. I never thought Cole Strange would be someone I'd be pining for after watching him be very unspectacular... but clearly he'd have been at least in concept-- better at that play that Layden Robinson goofed so bad.
I will say that Maye has looked better than I expected him to. Waldman had my expectations very low. When he sees something, he can stick it on a guy. And he has those mighty mouse strides that are a little bit (Kyler Murry esque?) but the broadcasters noted that he had his eyes downfield pretty well while facing pressure.
Thanks. For people drafting today, where would you set the over under on what week (and season) Maye is the starter barring injury?
I know it's tough, that's why I'm asking.
I would set the over-under at Week at Week 7. And I think it will be sooner than that.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Any New England QB should probably be a pass in redraft unless it's a giant league with a zillion roster spots. I expect their offense to be worse than last year. I saw that you said Week 7 or sooner. I only see that happening if something happens to Brissett. I specifically don't see Week 7, as that is their game in London. From a logistical perspective, they have 10 days to work with between Week 3 and Week 4 to prepare for a home game against SF.
I still don't think they are that compelled or in a rush to start Maye. He's played better in the actual pre-season games, but it was against watered-down competition. Brissett has looked much better most of the time in practice. I'd say the earliest we see Maye (without an injury to Brissett) would be Week 9 at home against TEN followed by another home date against CHI. In leagues with limited roster spots, Maye will probably be on the waiver wire and could stay there if he looks like a deer in the headlights and the offense stalls repeatedly.
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massraider
Footballguy
yes, and this is the reason you sit him a bit. bring him in to play at midseason or (preferably) later in the season.
you wanna know the best way to ruin your top end QB prospect? put him behind a terrible line in a bad situation.
this is not giving him his best chance at success. they need a Line that can block.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
If I heard correctly, on a recent podcast Sid and Cec said the push to start Maye was coming from Kraft.
they will only be able to fight that for so long.
if what you say is true, look for him to start after the bye.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
Play your rookie. He's either good enough, or he's not. It's a rare situation these days where you have the luxury for them to develop on the bench because your starter is good enough to win it all. GB the last two cycles and maybe Cousins/Penix/ATL this season.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That would make his first start Week 15.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Mayo and Van Pelt have never called plays in a game before. Their OL could be a catastrophe and allow 100 sacks (the record is 104). Deandre Hopkins has roughly 700 more receptions than the career total receptions of all 6 WR on the NE active roster. I suspect the early season games will look like the Three Stooges. I don’t see any added value in throwing Maye out there with close to no chance of success. Let the team get the kinks out to at least look like an NFL offense before letting Maye have a shot at things.
that late? Hmmm ok I better rethink that one.
Lets say somewhere after midseason. presumably once it is confirmed the team is likely missing the playoffs
General Malaise
Footballguy
Should have taken Nix.
Boston
Footballguy
When Nix was Maye's age he was undraftable...I like Nix now but very happy the Pats went with Maye.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
I don't know, I see what you're saying but seeing live action isn't a bad thing IMO. I'm not saying he will give them a better chance to win, he might, but I agree they are going to stink either way. Live game reps with real NFL defenses has to help with pre/post snap recognition. If he doesn't die, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger and all of that. Rookies gotta take their
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Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
My question for those who are saying he should sit until the team is ready, do we have have any recent modern day examples of this being a winning strategy for teams that aren’t already championship contenders? Subjectively, it really seems like the best QBs play right away and succeed or take their lumps and grow. Packers aside of course, but they were championship contenders with Favre and AR when they took AR and then Love.
I don't know, I see what you're saying but seeing live action isn't a bad thing IMO. I'm not saying he will give them a better chance to win, he might, but I agree they are going to stink either way. Live game reps with real NFL defenses has to help with pre/post snap recognition. If he doesn't die, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger and all of that. Rookies gotta take their
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Current Pats GM was part of the GB brass that orchestrated the Favre to Rodgers transition and was there for 13 years. It helps to part of a winning team when you are drafted (like Mahomes).
It would take more research than I can do right now, but IMO, younger guys coming out without many starts likely struggle more than those that have played longer in college. Wilson and Darnold of the Jets didn’t really light it up. Another example from a few years ago was Brandon Wheeden. The Browns were terrible and he never recovered. Blaine Gabbert was another.
Hard to come up with suitable examples that compare to the elements that NE has (poor OL, all rookie coaching staff, receivers that have barey played).
It would take more research than I can do right now, but IMO, younger guys coming out without many starts likely struggle more than those that have played longer in college. Wilson and Darnold of the Jets didn’t really light it up. Another example from a few years ago was Brandon Wheeden. The Browns were terrible and he never recovered. Blaine Gabbert was another.
Hard to come up with suitable examples that compare to the elements that NE has (poor OL, all rookie coaching staff, receivers that have barey played).
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
I'm just asking for examples. When I was growing up, it was almost unheard of for a rookie QB to start his first season, let alone have any sort of success. These days, it just seems like rookies are thrown into the fire immediately and it's sink or swim. I personally like this approach because experience is so important, but I'm willing to listen to other points of view. Green Bay is such an anomaly because they won Super Bowls with hall of fame quarterbacks while drafting first round talent 3 or so years before the run ended.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
It’s too complicated for me to research and post big chunks of info on my phone. Will have to wait until after the weekend for me to do a deeper dive. I suspect the worse the team, the worse the QB performed. And there weren’t many teams in as big a transition as this year’s Patriots squad.
-jb-
Footballguy
yowza. blast (more like puff) from the past.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
He's got a tantalizing amount of talent.
I watched the video up page, fascinating watch. Maye can really stick it on a guy from wherever. The quickness of his release was better than I thought.
He's definitely able to throw form some weird platforms- drifting to his left looked a lot like what Allen can do as he's falling out of bounds.
The pocket movement and footwork is as weird as reported by Waldman. If he can't clean that up, he might not come close to living up to his potential. I'm no qb whisperer but it seems like it's pretty clear that consistency and accuracy are sometimes quite linked to repeatability in establishing a base- which he does not do at all. And moving into trouble in the pocket instead of away from it. Again, consistency is very lacking.
Hopefully he got an earful about that stuff and can address it before he starts.
But I will say this. The ability to accelerate quickly is a great characteristic for being ABLE to buy time with a shaky OL. As is the ability to get a ton of quick and easy velocity from a lot of different platforms. But he needs to stop making easy plays harder than they need to be.
I watched the video up page, fascinating watch. Maye can really stick it on a guy from wherever. The quickness of his release was better than I thought.
He's definitely able to throw form some weird platforms- drifting to his left looked a lot like what Allen can do as he's falling out of bounds.
The pocket movement and footwork is as weird as reported by Waldman. If he can't clean that up, he might not come close to living up to his potential. I'm no qb whisperer but it seems like it's pretty clear that consistency and accuracy are sometimes quite linked to repeatability in establishing a base- which he does not do at all. And moving into trouble in the pocket instead of away from it. Again, consistency is very lacking.
Hopefully he got an earful about that stuff and can address it before he starts.
But I will say this. The ability to accelerate quickly is a great characteristic for being ABLE to buy time with a shaky OL. As is the ability to get a ton of quick and easy velocity from a lot of different platforms. But he needs to stop making easy plays harder than they need to be.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
He gives me a Herbert-lite vibe. His footwork and pocket presence improvement will determine his success.Early in the highlights he steps up nicely and makes a great throw, other than that he looked a little uncomfortable with his movement for the most part. NE is doing the right thing by sitting him IMO, probably should learn from the bench the majority of the year.
-jb-
Footballguy
I like this approach. Helps him build rapport with starters and be more prepared when his number is called.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
I think everyone is eager to see Drake Maye play but not to see him get murdered behind this practice squad-level offensive line. Doesn't help that they just lost David Andrews for the season. But it's only a matter of time before Jacoby Brissett is taken out either by benching or injury, and then it will be time to hold our collective breaths every time Maye takes a snap under center.
