QB Jameis Winston, NYG (4 Viewers)

[rockaction]

I hear you rock, and I agree that it’s more complicated than “who’s the better qb.” Let’s face it though, it obviously doesn’t matter to some people if he can play. I mean we have to listen to mike Vick on fox every Sunday. The only place more forgiving than the nfl is the Catholic Church, unless you smoke weed.

If I had the answers...I think that, football-wise, TB should be worried about Jameis and the conduct policy.  

 

[Capella]

Right. And the guy that's breaking records is on the bench. And you want him starting and we're telling you that pure performance won't determine entertainment and billion dollar industries, for better or worse. We're actually checking your heads -- we don't need the reality check about Jameis. 

I'm no ninny about sex or sexual harassment and anybody that's seen me in the FFA knows that I'm not playing puritanical -- but that you don't get the problem with Jameis' actions -- or seem to get it; let's be kind -- makes me worry for your grasp on societal standards and where we are. And I think we've come too far. But rape and grope are always serious.  

What.....the #### are you talking about? I’ve said multiple times I’m done defending Jameis as a person after the last incident. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t play for my favorite team any longer and can’t be discussed.

Seriously, piss off. 

 

[rockaction]

And I think he should start the week after the bye, no questions. It's done. The league is the league. You think Belichick would cut him? Didn't Edelman get accused of grope? Move on.  

 

[Grahamburn]

Right. And the guy that's breaking records is on the bench. And you want him starting and we're telling you that pure performance won't determine entertainment and billion dollar industries, for better or worse. We're actually checking your heads -- we don't need the reality check about Jameis. 

I'm no ninny about sex or sexual harassment and anybody that's seen me in the FFA knows that I'm not playing puritanical -- but that you don't get the problem with Jameis' actions -- or seem to get it; let's be kind -- makes me worry for your grasp on societal standards and where we are. And I think we've come too far. But rape and grope are always serious.  

You flipped the script on me pretty quickly there.  I'm not condoning his actions, but it appears the organization has drafting him #1 overall and then keeping him on the roster for this season.  Maybe they won't give him his job back at all this season, but if that was the plan they should have released him when his suspension was decided.

I thought we were talking about the football implications? 

 

[rockaction]

What.....the #### are you talking about? I’ve said multiple times I’m done defending Jameis as a person after the last incident. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t play for my favorite team any longer and can’t be discussed.

Seriously, piss off. 

Sure he can be discussed. And I'm trying to bring a semblance of societal reality to this. Nobody ####### LIKES HIM BECAUSE HE ABUSES WOMEN CRIMINALLY. 

 

[Capella]

Sure he can be discussed. And I'm trying to bring a semblance of societal reality to this. Nobody ####### LIKES HIM BECAUSE HE ABUSES WOMEN CRIMINALLY. 

Piss off. I don’t appreciate your comments about me. You don’t know a ### #### thing about me. 

 

[rockaction]

You flipped the script on me pretty quickly there.  I'm not condoning his actions, but it appears the organization has drafting him #1 overall and then keeping him on the roster for this season.  Maybe they won't give him his job back at all this season, but if that was the plan they should have released him when his suspension was decided.

I thought we were talking about the football implications? 

We are, but the football implications are inextricable from the personal ones.  

 

[rockaction]

#### off. I don’t appreciate your comments about me. You don’t know a ### #### thing about me. 

I never said a thing about you in that comment. You should be tougher than this.  

 

[Grahamburn]

We are, but the football implications are inextricable from the personal ones.  

I don't see how that can be the case.  He's eligible to play football next week.

 

[Capella]

I never said a thing about you in that comment. You should be tougher than this.  

You quoted me and said “but that you don't get the problem with Jameis' actions -- or seem to get it; let's be kind -- makes me worry for your grasp on societal standards and where we are.”

Done responding to you. Take it easy. 

 

[rockaction]

Look, I'll leave the thread. You guys know I want him to succeed and turn his life around. There's no doubt. 

You also still want him to start purely on football terms. I agree. 

That's not the entertainment biz. The entertainment biz is subject to social whims. Always has been, always will. That's partially what I'm trying to explain, and partially why I'm having to explain so hard that his abuse of women turns him off to so many. 

 

[Grahamburn]

Look, I'll leave the thread. You guys know I want him to succeed and turn his life around. There's no doubt. 

You also still want him to start purely on football terms. I agree. 

That's not the entertainment biz. The entertainment biz is subject to social whims. Always has been, always will. That's partially what I'm trying to explain, and partially why I'm having to explain so hard that his abuse of women turns him off to so many. 

I think part of the issue is your glaring need to feel like this situation warrants your explanation.

 

[rockaction]

I think part of the issue is your glaring need to feel like this situation warrants your explanation.

Never did. Said some #### I knew would bring you and Capella out of the woods to defend it like you always have. Personally, I think part of it is called cognitive dissonance and self-confirming bias, how's that? 

And that'll be my last.  

 

[rockaction]

No, wait, I'll hope for Jameis like I hope for Josh, but with a different mindset, that's for sure.  

 

[Osaurus]

Let’s get back to the crab leg stories.  Jameis is the future, but the hype for Fitz right now is crazy imo.  Give it some games and see what happens. 

 

[emerlin]

Let’s get back to the crab leg stories.  Jameis is the future, but the hype for Fitz right now is crazy imo.  Give it some games and see what happens. 

I agree on all levels ... yeash. 

The tough part is whether or not to roster him right now as a QB2.  I see him getting dropped for Dalton and Carr....  I think you hold but it is hard.

 

[rockaction]

I agree on all levels ... yeash. 

The tough part is whether or not to roster him right now as a QB2.  I see him getting dropped for Dalton and Carr....  I think you hold but it is hard.

I agree, too. I could have debated that more eloquently and coldly than all caps. That started to get unnecessary. My apologies for that. Not for content, but bad form and maybe bad personal form with Cappy which I've since thought about. Let's get back to it. I have interest in it, too.  

@Capella

Apologies if I imputed something to you you in no way believe or feel. That's on me.  

 

[emerlin]

. Let's get back to it. I have interest in it, too.  

In that spirit - what are you thoughts on this?  I think there are a bunch of owners in this spot.

"The tough part is whether or not to roster him right now as a QB2.  I see him getting dropped for Dalton and Carr....  I think you hold but it is hard."

 

[lod001]

Let’s get back to the crab leg stories.  Jameis is the future, but the hype for Fitz right now is crazy imo.  Give it some games and see what happens. 

That is a bleak future. The best move the Bucs can make is to do whatever it takes to move up in the draft and grab Drew Lock. They blew it by listening to no clue Brooks and no clue Lovie. Then, stuck with this guy, the following year here comes Wentz and Goff and all the Bucs could do is try and convince themselves that they made a great pick. They could have tanked another year which is what I would have done. Both are way better QBs. Now here comes Drew Lock and possibly a few others and some other team will get him, possibly division rival New Orleans. The O is loaded and that is the only reason this guy is putting up #s. As soon as you screw up and pay him millions, you won't be able to afford to pay the rest. He's not capable of getting the ball to ham & egger skill position guys.

 

[rockaction]

What are you thoughts on this?

"The tough part is whether or not to roster him right now as a QB2.  I see him getting dropped for Dalton and Carr....  I think you hold but it is hard."

What kind of league are you talking about? Not an abrupt tone, but just curious. Is it a 2QB league or are you talking QB1 and QB2 status because you might have fallen out of the top twelve in a standard-standard league? 

Right now, I'm in a super flex league with another flex with 16 teams, so every QB is pretty much taken. You're holding. If you're in a twelve team 2 QB league, you might think of dropping him for Dalton or Carr. It depends on the makeup of your league so much, though. What's your roster like? And keep in mind I'm no expert, which is why I don't work here and just comment, but I'd need to know league dynamics, etc.  

 

[NeverEnough]

In that spirit - what are you thoughts on this?  I think there are a bunch of owners in this spot.

"The tough part is whether or not to roster him right now as a QB2.  I see him getting dropped for Dalton and Carr....  I think you hold but it is hard."

I drafted Winston in my keep 12 league to backup Goff. I still have hm rostered, but now I also have Fitz buring a spot on my roster. I guess I'll give it until suspension is over & see what happens...unless a ww gem pops up. I could also drop them both for Flacco, but Fitz is the #1 QB right now. Maybe I should start him over Goff!

 

[rockaction]

I drafted Winston in my keep 12 league to backup Goff. I still have hm rostered, but now I also have Fitz buring a spot on my roster. I guess I'll give it until suspension is over & see what happens...unless a ww gem pops up. I could also drop them both for Flacco, but Fitz is the #1 QB right now. Maybe I should start him over Goff!

Can we figure that out? Because I have Fitz on the wire and Goff as QB1 on my team. And I know Fitz. It's stud-stud-dud. So I'm hesitant.   

 

[emerlin]

What kind of league are you talking about? Not an abrupt tone, but just curious. Is it a 2QB league or are you talking QB1 and QB2 status because you might have fallen out of the top twelve in a standard-standard league? 

Right now, I'm in a super flex league with another flex with 16 teams, so every QB is pretty much taken. You're holding. If you're in a twelve team 2 QB league, you might think of dropping him for Dalton or Carr. It depends on the makeup of your league so much, though. What's your roster like? And keep in mind I'm no expert, which is why I don't work here and just comment, but I'd need to know league dynamics, etc.  

12 team 1qb starter - sorry I should have mentioned. 

 

[emerlin]

I drafted Winston in my keep 12 league to backup Goff. I still have hm rostered, but now I also have Fitz buring a spot on my roster. I guess I'll give it until suspension is over & see what happens...unless a ww gem pops up. I could also drop them both for Flacco, but Fitz is the #1 QB right now. Maybe I should start him over Goff!

I think there are many owners in the same spot here - burning 3 spots on QB is hard to do...    I feel your pain.

 

[Osaurus]

That is a bleak future. The best move the Bucs can make is to do whatever it takes to move up in the draft and grab Drew Lock. They blew it by listening to no clue Brooks and no clue Lovie. Then, stuck with this guy, the following year here comes Wentz and Goff and all the Bucs could do is try and convince themselves that they made a great pick. They could have tanked another year which is what I would have done. Both are way better QBs. Now here comes Drew Lock and possibly a few others and some other team will get him, possibly division rival New Orleans. The O is loaded and that is the only reason this guy is putting up #s. As soon as you screw up and pay him millions, you won't be able to afford to pay the rest. He's not capable of getting the ball to ham & egger skill position guys.

 No argument here.

 

[Manster]

Winston sucks.  Another week of Fitzmagic and Winston is holding a clipboard for the forseeable future.....

 

[rockaction]

12 team 1qb starter - sorry I should have mentioned. 

Sure. You shouldn't follow my advice on QB management, though. I devalue QBs even more than most and take them later in 4 pt. TD pass leagues. I'm sort of the modern...wait for Stafford...wait for Cousins. You'll get them. I think Winston and Dalton are two points interchangeable. I wonder if you did historical trends what they'd actually be. I've rostered Jameis. He didn't compare to Keenum last year, even. I just rolled Keenum out there until my finals. It's a crapshoot and most workable fantasy strategies have you drafting quarterbacks late, which works for me.  

eta* It's not a crapshoot, it's that they tend to cluster around the same score, so having a viable backup might be better than one who doesn't start. I wouldn't backup a backup QB in a twelve-team league, that's for sure.  

 

[rockaction]

I think the only time I ever saw QBs valued was in this setup we did this year: 

1 QB

2 RB 

3 WR

1 TE

1 W/R/T

1 QB/R/W/T

That brought the most important position to the fore. That's why the super flex is what all the hip kids are doing.  

But otherwise, they're very low on the totem pole because they tend to score the same, especially around the average. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yeah, but that’s on the jets and buffalo. This is easily the best offense fitz has played in, best weapons he’s ever had.

That may be true but he had Marshall, Decker and Enunwa at WR and Powell and Chris Ivory at RB with the Jets so he wasn't done in by lack of talent at the skill positions. His supporting cast in Buffalo wasn't bad either.

The bottom line is he's a weak armed QB that makes some horrendous decisions with the ball - he has however shown flashes on brilliances, which he's doing once again right now. He's a fun guy to root for and was a model citizen everywhere he's been so hope he continues along this path (and I'm a Winston dynasty owner).

 

[Capella]

That is a bleak future. The best move the Bucs can make is to do whatever it takes to move up in the draft and grab Drew Lock. They blew it by listening to no clue Brooks and no clue Lovie. Then, stuck with this guy, the following year here comes Wentz and Goff and all the Bucs could do is try and convince themselves that they made a great pick. They could have tanked another year which is what I would have done. Both are way better QBs. Now here comes Drew Lock and possibly a few others and some other team will get him, possibly division rival New Orleans. The O is loaded and that is the only reason this guy is putting up #s. As soon as you screw up and pay him millions, you won't be able to afford to pay the rest. He's not capable of getting the ball to ham & egger skill position guys.

From pro football focus: 

“Whew.  Someone break up the Buccaneers.  Their passing game showed a lot of juice last year, with Jameis Winston generating the highest percentage of positively-graded throws among all quarterbacks, but this is a bit ridiculous”

you simply don't know what you’re talking about. 

 

[lod001]

you simply don't know what you’re talking about. 

Keep telling yourself that. Facts are facts and the fact is, Fitzpatrick is putting up better stats with the same guys. So you can talk all you want about your guy but he's not even better than a 36 year old journeyman with a team loaded at skill position players.

 

[Capella]

Keep telling yourself that. Facts are facts and the fact is, Fitzpatrick is putting up better stats with the same guys. So you can talk all you want about your guy but he's not even better than a 36 year old journeyman with a team loaded at skill position players.

Pff watches and grades every play. They have the facts. Yours is an opinion, which doesn’t match up to the actual facts. 

Also, the oline wasn’t this good last year and the Bucs still moved the ball in an elite fashion. 

 

[Capella]

Also, I have no problem with riding it out with fitz all year and dealing with Jameis next year. But to pretend like it’s unlikely Jameis plays this year is silly. They will likely look for any chance to put him back in. 

 

[doeseatplace]

Fitzpatrick is putting up better stats with the same guys.

Not coming down on either side of the QB argument, but while Chris Godwin and OJ Howard are the same guys, now they are 2nd year veterans with experience in Koetter's offense. That has to make some degree of difference

 

[NeverEnough]

Also, I have no problem with riding it out with fitz all year and dealing with Jameis next year later. But to pretend like it’s unlikely Jameis plays this year is silly. They will likely look for any chance to put him back in. 

I want them to pick 1 so I can free up a spot, but from an NFL standpoint, if Fitz keeps up this streak, you cannot yank him. You have to roll with him until he fizzles out.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Pff watches and grades every play. They have the facts. Yours is an opinion, which doesn’t match up to the actual facts. 

Also, the oline wasn’t this good last year and the Bucs still moved the ball in an elite fashion. 

How many times do you have to be told not to feed the troll?

 

[menobrown]

Not coming down on either side of the QB argument, but while Chris Godwin and OJ Howard are the same guys, now they are 2nd year veterans with experience in Koetter's offense. That has to make some degree of difference

Agree plus DJAX is healthier and in second year of the system.

Tampa is at least in the conversation for best set of skill position receiving options in the NFL. That was not the case last year IMO.

 

[voiceofunreason]

Keep telling yourself that. Facts are facts and the fact is, Fitzpatrick is putting up better stats with the same guys. So you can talk all you want about your guy but he's not even better than a 36 year old journeyman with a team loaded at skill position players.

Matt Flynn is the packers single game td record holder. A lot of people on here questioned if it was Rogers or the system. Less dramatic but similar thing going on here. But you clearly hate the guy and it’s clouding your judgement and I’m pretty sure you know this already. 

What this really shows is that when Winston takes over he probably has the best receiving core in the league and most are very young. Great time to buy in dynasty.

 

[Capella]

How many times do you have to be told not to feed the troll?

 

new year, same me 

 

[cockroach]

Look, I'll leave the thread.

Go.

 

[rockaction]

Go.

Break from the FFA to get your concern about the board on, cockroach?  

 

[joeschmo]

What kind of league are you talking about? Not an abrupt tone, but just curious. Is it a 2QB league or are you talking QB1 and QB2 status because you might have fallen out of the top twelve in a standard-standard league? 

Right now, I'm in a super flex league with another flex with 16 teams, so every QB is pretty much taken. You're holding. If you're in a twelve team 2 QB league, you might think of dropping him for Dalton or Carr. It depends on the makeup of your league so much, though. What's your roster like? And keep in mind I'm no expert, which is why I don't work here and just comment, but I'd need to know league dynamics, etc.  

In a 12-team 2 QB league, Dalton and Carr are almost always rostered.  And probably Allen, Bradford etc etc.  So Jameis is tough to drop in those leagues.

 

[rockaction]

In a 12-team 2 QB league, Dalton and Carr are almost always rostered.  And probably Allen, Bradford etc etc.  So Jameis is tough to drop in those leagues.

Yeah, I know. I have him in Superflex and I can't drop. I was trying to gauge his league, that's all.   

 

[Grahamburn]

if Fitz keeps up this streak, you cannot yank him. You have to roll with him until he fizzles out.

True, of course.  400+, 4-5 TDs, and a victory every week.  No way you can pull him if that continues...

 

[DJackson10]

That is a bleak future. The best move the Bucs can make is to do whatever it takes to move up in the draft and grab Drew Lock. They blew it by listening to no clue Brooks and no clue Lovie. Then, stuck with this guy, the following year here comes Wentz and Goff and all the Bucs could do is try and convince themselves that they made a great pick. They could have tanked another year which is what I would have done. Both are way better QBs. Now here comes Drew Lock and possibly a few others and some other team will get him, possibly division rival New Orleans. The O is loaded and that is the only reason this guy is putting up #s. As soon as you screw up and pay him millions, you won't be able to afford to pay the rest. He's not capable of getting the ball to ham & egger skill position guys.

I'm one person who hates when teams tank because I think it's a weak copout to get the best pick possible rather then trying to fix in house situations first. Tanking should be the very last thing a team tries to do. However I agree with you on a lot of this. I'm not a TB fan but I saw Winston play FSU and never got the hype. His last two yrs at FSU he led the nation in first half INT's thrown. His defense bailed him out more then once in games over those two yrs. I'm a Florida fan but I always did appreciate talent when I saw it. I was jealous FSU had Dalvin Cook and really wanted my Eagles to take him. Back to Winston his SR year he threw like 4 picks in the 1st half to the Florida defense which despite not being good at QB defensively they were one of the best teams nationally. It was kind of a muggy rainy day this game and had Florida had any competent QB play and a Kicker (This was the last game I believe before they took a chance on Eddie Pinero) Florida wins and FSU doesn't make it to the title game that year most likely. 

Winston has a lot of issues. Saw one game late where he forgot where the RB was suppose to be when he handed it off. He misses high routinely (Which is why having WR's like Mike Evans and a TE like Howard are key for him) which can lead to INT's at the NFL. I've also heard the dude is dumb as a rock. Add that with his legal issues and well you got a bad situation on your hands. Unless you have a stout defense to cover up with Winston's slow starts or he gets started faster there's gonna be issues. TB was better off taking Cooper, Williams, Gurley, Beasley or Schreff there. I don't know Winston's contract status but maybe a trade this offseason or draft to accumulate picks is in the worth while. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'm one person who hates when teams tank because I think it's a weak copout to get the best pick possible rather then trying to fix in house situations first. Tanking should be the very last thing a team tries to do. However I agree with you on a lot of this.

They have a funny way of tanking, if that's what they're doing.

 

[Grahamburn]

 I've also heard the dude is dumb as a rock.

TB was better off taking Cooper, Williams, Gurley, Beasley or Schreff there. I don't know Winston's contract status but maybe a trade this offseason or draft to accumulate picks is in the worth while. 

Riveting stuff.  I also think they should have taken Dan Marino in 1983 instead of trading the 18th pick to Chicago.  Or maybe they should have gone after Aaron Rodgers with the 5th pick in 2005 instead of Cadillac Williams?  Then we wouldn't be in this Jameis mess at all!

 

[DJackson10]

Riveting stuff.  I also think they should have taken Dan Marino in 1983 instead of trading the 18th pick to Chicago.  Or maybe they should have gone after Aaron Rodgers with the 5th pick in 2005 instead of Cadillac Williams?  Then we wouldn't be in this Jameis mess at all!

I mean I shouldn't talk my team drafted a guy who was more interested in fighting fires with Smokey the Bear but still. All teams make mistakes, however the last 5-7 yrs for me in sports especially football and basketball I've been very gun shy on guys the media and fans and scouts have hyped up only to be right about them not making a mark at the next level or maybe not being as good as many think. I mean my buddy who went to FSU didn't see the hype with Winston either. Basically said he was lucky he was in the ACC and that he had a defense that was able to minimize mistakes. His defense either only allowed 3pts or got a TO for him if he turned it over early in the game. it wasn't until the 2nd half of games people saw the Winston the media and scouts were swinging off his nuts about. 

 

[Chaka]

From pro football focus: 

with Jameis Winston generating the highest percentage of positively-graded throws among all quarterbacks

What does this even mean? Is there a correlation between positively-graded throws and winning?

Who had the highest percentage of negatively-graded throws?

Is it possible to have the highest percentage of positively-graded throws and the highest percentage of negatively-graded throws?

Wouldn't the ratio of positively-graded throws to negatively-graded throws be a better measure of ability?

 

[the lone star]

Cowboys should look into a trade if they can. I don't trust Dak as a passer.