QB Jameis Winston, NYG (5 Viewers)

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

According to NFL Network's Albert Breer, the shoulder "condition" that allegedly caused weakness in Florida State QB Jameis Winston's throwing arm is common among baseball pitchers.
Breer says it's "basic wear and tear" that figures to dissipate as Winston moves toward becoming a full-time football player. Doctors in Indianapolis told NFL teams there is "not an issue," and "guys from a number of teams" informed Breer they "couldn't find anyone concerned about the shoulder."

Source: Albert Breer on Twitter
Feb 22 - 2:50 PM

 

[Capella]

http://chopchat.com/2015/02/22/kinsmans-attorney-wanted-insurance-policy-jameis-winston/

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Pretty impressively bad athletic results at the combine. Well slower than Jamarcus Russell in the 40. Beaten by most of the offensive linemen in the vertical jump.

Luckily all of his best work will be done with two feet on the ground.

 

[Quez]

http://chopchat.com/2015/02/22/kinsmans-attorney-wanted-insurance-policy-jameis-winston/

I bet they file the lawsuit on Winston the day after he gets drafted.

 

[jurb26]

Pretty impressively bad athletic results at the combine. Well slower than Jamarcus Russell in the 40. Beaten by most of the offensive linemen in the vertical jump.

Unimpressive if you remove the part about everyone in the stadium drooling over his passing touch, accuracy and footwork. You're grasping at straws.

 

[bostonfred]

What's his work ethic supposed to be like? Brady fought for his job for years. Rodgers fought for his job against a hall of fame veteran who didn't want to retire. Brees turned his game up another level when rivers joined the team and he found out he might not have a job. Wilson looked destined for a backup spot when he was drafted. Kaepernick had to learn from the bench, was awesome when he first came up, but regressed when they cut tours with Alex smith. The guys who fight through adversity to get the job seem to do a little better.

There are guys like luck and manning who ate drafted to be awesome and are awesome almost immediately. But they're clearly the exception to the rule, and stories of that 1.1 pick or other early draft pick sucking are far more common.

when I hear winston talk about throwing to Vincent Jackson, I hear entitlement. That sounds like a guy who expects to be the 1.1 pick. When he talks about wanting to be compared to brady and manning, I hear a guy with high hopes - but I wonder if he realizes how much work it takes to get to that level.

I think his football iq is great and I don't think it's impossible for him to do great things in the nfl - I just wonder if lovie is the right guy to push him to be that elite player right away. I have my doubts.

 

[-CE-]

Pretty impressively bad athletic results at the combine. Well slower than Jamarcus Russell in the 40. Beaten by most of the offensive linemen in the vertical jump.

Unimpressive if you remove the part about everyone in the stadium drooling over his passing touch, accuracy and footwork. You're grasping at straws.

Do you see where he faults his athletic ability and not his passing ability? Can you understand the difference?

 

[jurb26]

when I hear winston talk about throwing to Vincent Jackson, I hear entitlement. That sounds like a guy who expects to be the 1.1 pick.

Really, this is how you took that? You realize he first said Rice and then, when told "you won't get him" changed his response to Jackson. Seemed to me he was just trying to be cleaver and funny. I'm sure he does expect to be the 1.01 pick. Im not sure why that would be a problem. Winston certainly does not lack confidence. His work ethic is said to be second to none. He's regularly refered to as a student of the game. Constantly watches film, even on the bus when playing baseball.

It's fair to be skeptical, but his work ethic doesn't seem like a reason for skepticism.

 

[bostonfred]

yes, it's one of the things i took away. Not the only one. If we were talking about the dedication necessary to become the number one pick, I think he has that. I'm asking whether he has the dedication to become a good or great nfl qb. So yes, i do look for red flags and even orange or yellow flags about entitlement issues.

Watching film on the baseball bus is a good start. That's what I was getting at. The fact that he was on a baseball bus at all isn't a great sign, but it's not the worst thing in the world for him to be a Super stud athlete.

I'm struggling with this one. I have no dog in this fight, I have no college football allegiance, I don't want the bucs to fail, I don't want the pats to draft him, and I don't expect to draft him in dynasty but I'm not opposed to it. So I'm asking honestly. No need to be snarky about it.

 

[Capella]

Why would him playing baseball be a bad sign. Can't say I get your point about that or the VJax thing. Of course he wants to be the top pick and it's obviously quite reasonable for him to expect that.

 

[jurb26]

Why would him playing baseball be a bad sign. Can't say I get your point about that or the VJax thing. Of course he wants to be the top pick and it's obviously quite reasonable for him to expect that.

Playing baseball in college never bothered me. Last year he was repeatedly saying things like wanting to be a 2 way athlete in the pros, though. That really bothered me. It seems he's moved on from that based on his interviews at the combine and recent others. This is the biggest positive for him in my book because the divided attention to playing both sports in the pros was my biggest concern with him.

 

[MAC_32]

Lots of battles to pick here, baseball isn't one of them.

 

[Orlando RMF]

I like him as a competitor, he definitely gets the guys around to makes plays when they need them. An intangible you can't measure at the combine and frankly is one of the most important factors when you add in his passing talents. The flags I am looking at still have to do with off the field issues, crab legs and cafeteria behavior. I am concerned about him being described as a workaholic and yet having pedestrian combine numbers. Being a Heisman trophy winner did not translate into consistent or better numbers in 2014, and recognizing that FSU was substantially worse as a team in 2014 he really was a run of the mill QB, living off of 2013 if you ask me.

 

[Orlando RMF]

Here are the numbers:

ear ▴ School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate 2013 Florida State ACC FR QB 14 257 384 66.9 4057 10.6 11.5 40 10 184.8 2014 Florida State ACC SO QB 13 305 467 65.3 3907 8.4 7.7 25 18 145.5

While the yards and completion % is similar, He had 80 more attempts and 150 less yards. He also had 15 less TDs while racking up almost twice as many INTs. A 25 TDs and 18 INTs is really just an above average QB, not a first overall pick, IMO.

Sorry the table screwed up, try http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jameis-winston-1.html

 

[ConnSKINS26]

That's because FSU was a much better team in 2013. His numbers were better last year, but his ability to put a team on his shoulders and win was better this year.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

After attending the Combine, CBS Sports' Dane Brugler "couldn't find one person I trust" inside the league who believes the Bucs will pass on Florida State QB Jameis Winston at No. 1 overall.

In other words, the consensus opinion is Winston will be the Bucs' pick. In terms of on-field skills, Winston checks virtually every box NFL teams seek in a pro-ready pocket passer. He is naturally accurate with a strong arm and can make anticipation throws. Oregon's Marcus Mariota is a better spreadsheet athlete, but Winston is the better quarterback at this stage.

Related: Buccaneers

Source: Dane Brugler on Twitter

 

[Quez]

Why would him playing baseball be a bad sign. Can't say I get your point about that or the VJax thing. Of course he wants to be the top pick and it's obviously quite reasonable for him to expect that.

Playing baseball in college never bothered me. Last year he was repeatedly saying things like wanting to be a 2 way athlete in the pros, though. That really bothered me. It seems he's moved on from that based on his interviews at the combine and recent others. This is the biggest positive for him in my book because the divided attention to playing both sports in the pros was my biggest concern with him.

He may of had a change of heart after the last baseball season. He also may have started to realize at the pro level he would need to focus on football the entire offseason.

He may change his mind and want to play baseball in a few years. After seeing the Josh Freeman plummet from grace nothing surprises me.

 

[CalBear]

Here's another Winston gem, where he's not under pressure, makes a horrible decision to throw to a double-covered receiver, and underthrows him by several yards.

Or this lovely game, where he starts by staring down his receiver and throwing an inaccurate ball for an interception, follows it up by overthrowing into triple coverage for another interception, and finishes by lofting a ball into a sea of opponents. All without pressure.

 

[Old Smiley]

Here's another Winston gem, where he's not under pressure, makes a horrible decision to throw to a double-covered receiver, and underthrows him by several yards.

Or this lovely game, where he starts by staring down his receiver and throwing an inaccurate ball for an interception, follows it up by overthrowing into triple coverage for another interception, and finishes by lofting a ball into a sea of opponents. All without pressure.

You do see those wide feet people talk about. He kind of squats when he sets, too.

 

[MAC_32]

Here's another Winston gem, where he's not under pressure, makes a horrible decision to throw to a double-covered receiver, and underthrows him by several yards.

Or this lovely game, where he starts by staring down his receiver and throwing an inaccurate ball for an interception, follows it up by overthrowing into triple coverage for another interception, and finishes by lofting a ball into a sea of opponents. All without pressure.

You do see those wide feet people talk about. He kind of squats when he sets, too.

Again, believe what you want about the neck up, but to say he didn't put out a lot of bad tape in 2014 would be lying to yourself.

 

[bucsbaby]

Winston may be more pro-ready today, but a HOF QB's career these days can be nearly 20 years long. Winston may be more ready to get the Bucs above .500 this year, but I can't help but feel that Mariota has more of the intangibles to be greater over the long haul. Time will tell, of course.

 

[Grahamburn]

Winston may be more pro-ready today, but a HOF QB's career these days can be nearly 20 years long. Winston may be more ready to get the Bucs above .500 this year, but I can't help but feel that Mariota has more of the intangibles to be greater over the long haul. Time will tell, of course.

This is the biggest problem with having a front office who just went 2-14 calling the shots. They can't afford to wait for Mariota.

 

[jurb26]

Winston may be more pro-ready today, but a HOF QB's career these days can be nearly 20 years long. Winston may be more ready to get the Bucs above .500 this year, but I can't help but feel that Mariota has more of the intangibles to be greater over the long haul. Time will tell, of course.

What intangibles are you looking for? Winston by and large is said to have outstanding intangibles. It's brought up nearly everytime you hear someone talk about him. His teammates love playing for him, he works harder than anyone in the team, his football IQ is as high as many have ever seen, he's won in difficult situations, his game seems to get better when the stakes are highest and he has natural leadership qualities.

 

[jurb26]

Here's another Winston gem, where he's not under pressure, makes a horrible decision to throw to a double-covered receiver, and underthrows him by several yards.

Or this lovely game, where he starts by staring down his receiver and throwing an inaccurate ball for an interception, follows it up by overthrowing into triple coverage for another interception, and finishes by lofting a ball into a sea of opponents. All without pressure.

You do see those wide feet people talk about. He kind of squats when he sets, too.

Again, believe what you want about the neck up, but to say he didn't put out a lot of bad tape in 2014 would be lying to yourself.

Everyone puts out bad tape if you watch enough.

 

[Quez]

Winston may be more pro-ready today, but a HOF QB's career these days can be nearly 20 years long. Winston may be more ready to get the Bucs above .500 this year, but I can't help but feel that Mariota has more of the intangibles to be greater over the long haul. Time will tell, of course.

So what would you do as GM? Draft Mariota and start Glennon in 2015? That wouldn't be too exciting for the fan base.

 

[mr roboto]

Winston may be more pro-ready today, but a HOF QB's career these days can be nearly 20 years long. Winston may be more ready to get the Bucs above .500 this year, but I can't help but feel that Mariota has more of the intangibles to be greater over the long haul. Time will tell, of course.

So what would you do as GM? Draft Mariota and start Glennon in 2015? That wouldn't be too exciting for the fan base.

Just because Winston is more pro ready doesn't mean Mariota wouldn't start day 1. Actually the running QBs have better starts to their careers (Cam, RG3, Kaep) precisely because they have a skill they can fall back on before they come up to speed in the pocket game.

 

[MAC_32]

Winston may be more pro-ready today, but a HOF QB's career these days can be nearly 20 years long. Winston may be more ready to get the Bucs above .500 this year, but I can't help but feel that Mariota has more of the intangibles to be greater over the long haul. Time will tell, of course.

So what would you do as GM? Draft Mariota and start Glennon in 2015? That wouldn't be too exciting for the fan base.

Just because Winston is more pro ready doesn't mean Mariota wouldn't start day 1.Actually the running QBs have better starts to their careers (Cam, RG3, Kaep) precisely because they have a skill they can fall back on before they come up to speed in the pocket game.

Mariota isn't a running QB. He's a QB that can run.

I think there's a big difference.

 

[mr roboto]

^^^ I know but I'm simply saying that the rookie QBs that can run tend to have faster starts to their careers (but the concern is less sustained success as the league gets tape on them). Just that the narrative of Winston being more helpful to teams in the beginning but less upside long term seems to me to be exactly opposite.

 

[pizzatyme]

I had some questions about Mariotta's arm strength going into the combine, but he seems to be able to make every throw.

I like him over Winston by a smidge just because of the off-field stuff.

I don't knock Winston for having the confidence to try to be a 2-way athlete. And I give him credit for deciding to focus solely on football. He also seems like a gregarious guy.

 

[Freelove]

Winston may be more pro-ready today, but a HOF QB's career these days can be nearly 20 years long. Winston may be more ready to get the Bucs above .500 this year, but I can't help but feel that Mariota has more of the intangibles to be greater over the long haul. Time will tell, of course.

So what would you do as GM? Draft Mariota and start Glennon in 2015? That wouldn't be too exciting for the fan base.

Just because Winston is more pro ready doesn't mean Mariota wouldn't start day 1.Actually the running QBs have better starts to their careers (Cam, RG3, Kaep) precisely because they have a skill they can fall back on before they come up to speed in the pocket game.

Mariota isn't a running QB. He's a QB that can run. I think there's a big difference.

But no difference at all when it comes to the point of that skill helping a rookie. Still not something I'd factor in too heavily, though, unless my ONLY consideration as a GM were first-year success -- if, say, not only my job but my future NFL employment prospects demanded success right away.For a GM hoping to build the best team, I'd pass on both. Right now, I'd probably lean toward Williams or a trade down. There are always teams with rube GM's that grossly overvalue iffy and flawed "top" QB prospects.

As a fan, I'd be rooting for my team to fleece those guys, or else take the best player in the draft. But most fans would rather reach for the shiny object than build slowly and reliably with world-class blue collar guys. Little surprised so many TB fans are that way, though, since the only team success they've ever had has been through building exactly that way.

 

[Grahamburn]

Little surprised so many TB fans are that way, though, since the only team success they've ever had has been through building exactly that way.

I'd go into Tampa's QB history, but it's just so depressing. I don't want to ruin my good mood. We, fans of the Bucs, are so starved for a Franchise QB because we've never had one.

The team success they had with defense was in a completely different era. NFL franchise aren't winning that way anymore. All you have to do is look at the franchises in the playoffs the last few years. Even the teams who get there with great defense like the Arizona Cardinals have absolutely no chance without a QB. There are just way too many rules favoring the offense now.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Jameis Winston - QB - Seminoles

NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock said he "thought the two top guys, (Jameis) Winston and (Marcus) Mariota, were outstanding" on Saturday at the combine.

The top two quarterback prospects both threw on Saturday, drawing wide praise for their performances in front of scouts. "The thing that I like about Jameis Winston is I think he throws an extremely catchable ball," Mayock said. "He's got all the arm strength you want, but he makes it easy for the receiver based on the route. Naturally and innately, he gets it." In the past few days, much has been made of Winston's shoulder and personality, a pair of issues we don't think should affect his evaluation one way or the other.

Source: NFL.com

Feb 23 - 1:59 AM

 

[Capella]

Lol at blue collar guys. Is that what Sapp was?

 

[CalBear]

Here's another Winston gem, where he's not under pressure, makes a horrible decision to throw to a double-covered receiver, and underthrows him by several yards.

Or this lovely game, where he starts by staring down his receiver and throwing an inaccurate ball for an interception, follows it up by overthrowing into triple coverage for another interception, and finishes by lofting a ball into a sea of opponents. All without pressure.

You do see those wide feet people talk about. He kind of squats when he sets, too.

Again, believe what you want about the neck up, but to say he didn't put out a lot of bad tape in 2014 would be lying to yourself.

Everyone puts out bad tape if you watch enough.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the guy who threw 18 interceptions put out a lot more bad tape than the guy who threw 4.

Like this one; stares down the receiver, throws into triple coverage, off-target (with no pressure).

Or here's a great decision under pressure on first down: a blind jump pass into the middle of the field.

Or under no pressure with a 3-man rush, failing to see the linebacker, and throwing way behind the receiver to boot.

 

[jurb26]

Here's another Winston gem, where he's not under pressure, makes a horrible decision to throw to a double-covered receiver, and underthrows him by several yards.

Or this lovely game, where he starts by staring down his receiver and throwing an inaccurate ball for an interception, follows it up by overthrowing into triple coverage for another interception, and finishes by lofting a ball into a sea of opponents. All without pressure.

You do see those wide feet people talk about. He kind of squats when he sets, too.

Again, believe what you want about the neck up, but to say he didn't put out a lot of bad tape in 2014 would be lying to yourself.

Everyone puts out bad tape if you watch enough.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the guy who threw 18 interceptions put out a lot more bad tape than the guy who threw 4.

Like this one; stares down the receiver, throws into triple coverage, off-target (with no pressure).

Or here's a great decision under pressure on first down: a blind jump pass into the middle of the field.

Or under no pressure with a 3-man rush, failing to see the linebacker, and throwing way behind the receiver to boot.

You're not going out on a limb or fooling anyone. You've shown no objectivity on Winston or Mariota and I wouldn't expect that to change now.

 

[CalBear]

Here's another Winston gem, where he's not under pressure, makes a horrible decision to throw to a double-covered receiver, and underthrows him by several yards.

Or this lovely game, where he starts by staring down his receiver and throwing an inaccurate ball for an interception, follows it up by overthrowing into triple coverage for another interception, and finishes by lofting a ball into a sea of opponents. All without pressure.

You do see those wide feet people talk about. He kind of squats when he sets, too.

Again, believe what you want about the neck up, but to say he didn't put out a lot of bad tape in 2014 would be lying to yourself.

Everyone puts out bad tape if you watch enough.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the guy who threw 18 interceptions put out a lot more bad tape than the guy who threw 4.

Like this one; stares down the receiver, throws into triple coverage, off-target (with no pressure).

Or here's a great decision under pressure on first down: a blind jump pass into the middle of the field.

Or under no pressure with a 3-man rush, failing to see the linebacker, and throwing way behind the receiver to boot.

You're not going out on a limb or fooling anyone. You've shown no objectivity on Winston or Mariota and I wouldn't expect that to change now.

Do you have any specific comments about the plays I've posted? I think the analysis is pretty objective; they all represent horrible decisions by Winston, and most of them are also poorly thrown balls. Do you have an argument other than ad hominem?

 

[Capella]

Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.

 

[jurb26]

Here's another Winston gem, where he's not under pressure, makes a horrible decision to throw to a double-covered receiver, and underthrows him by several yards.

Or this lovely game, where he starts by staring down his receiver and throwing an inaccurate ball for an interception, follows it up by overthrowing into triple coverage for another interception, and finishes by lofting a ball into a sea of opponents. All without pressure.

You do see those wide feet people talk about. He kind of squats when he sets, too.

Again, believe what you want about the neck up, but to say he didn't put out a lot of bad tape in 2014 would be lying to yourself.

Everyone puts out bad tape if you watch enough.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the guy who threw 18 interceptions put out a lot more bad tape than the guy who threw 4.

Like this one; stares down the receiver, throws into triple coverage, off-target (with no pressure).

Or here's a great decision under pressure on first down: a blind jump pass into the middle of the field.

Or under no pressure with a 3-man rush, failing to see the linebacker, and throwing way behind the receiver to boot.

You're not going out on a limb or fooling anyone. You've shown no objectivity on Winston or Mariota and I wouldn't expect that to change now.

Do you have any specific comments about the plays I've posted? I think the analysis is pretty objective; they all represent horrible decisions by Winston, and most of them are also poorly thrown balls. Do you have an argument other than ad hominem?

I've acknowleged Winston having problems with specific coverages and overconfidence leading to Ints numerous times. Have you ever said anything positive about him?I've put holes in both players game. Seems the only ones who get defensive about it is the Mariota crowd. Winston side seems to be OK acknowledging he can be critisized.

 

[MAC_32]

Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.

Ignoring the bad tape is just as silly. Every QB has bad tape, but there's a line. Jameis crossed it in 2014. Mariota has his share of misses too, but throughout his career he has minimized the damage from those miscues; something Winston failed to do throughout last year.

When you're evaluating two great, but flawed, QB prospects I think what's going on upstairs is the best tie breaker. If you think that's Winston I think you're crazy, so I must think the Bucs brain trust is nuts, and if they pick him over Mariota I will.

 

[jurb26]

Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.

Ignoring the bad tape is just as silly. Every QB has bad tape, but there's a line. Jameis crossed it in 2014. Mariota has his share of misses too, but throughout his career he has minimized the damage from those miscues; something Winston failed to do throughout last year.When you're evaluating two great, but flawed, QB prospects I think what's going on upstairs is the best tie breaker. If you think that's Winston I think you're crazy, so I must think the Bucs brain trust is nuts, and if they pick him over Mariota I will.

Mariota plays in an offense that limits mistakes by its very nature and isn't near as complex as Winston's. Sure, he runs it very well and better than anyone before him. Saying Winston made more mistakes than Mariota and taking it as a number, on surface value, doesn't even begin to tell the complete story.

 

[MAC_32]

Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.

Ignoring the bad tape is just as silly. Every QB has bad tape, but there's a line. Jameis crossed it in 2014. Mariota has his share of misses too, but throughout his career he has minimized the damage from those miscues; something Winston failed to do throughout last year.When you're evaluating two great, but flawed, QB prospects I think what's going on upstairs is the best tie breaker. If you think that's Winston I think you're crazy, so I must think the Bucs brain trust is nuts, and if they pick him over Mariota I will.

Mariota plays in an offense that limits mistakes by its very nature and isn't near as complex as Winston's. Sure, he runs it very well and better than anyone before him. Saying Winston made more mistakes than Mariota and taking it as a number, on surface value, doesn't even begin to tell the complete story.

...and that counters my point how?

 

[jurb26]

Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.

Ignoring the bad tape is just as silly. Every QB has bad tape, but there's a line. Jameis crossed it in 2014. Mariota has his share of misses too, but throughout his career he has minimized the damage from those miscues; something Winston failed to do throughout last year.When you're evaluating two great, but flawed, QB prospects I think what's going on upstairs is the best tie breaker. If you think that's Winston I think you're crazy, so I must think the Bucs brain trust is nuts, and if they pick him over Mariota I will.

Mariota plays in an offense that limits mistakes by its very nature and isn't near as complex as Winston's. Sure, he runs it very well and better than anyone before him. Saying Winston made more mistakes than Mariota and taking it as a number, on surface value, doesn't even begin to tell the complete story.

...and that counters my point how?

The point is that context matters and you continually sight all these "mistakes" and yet don't provide any.

 

[Grahamburn]

Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.

Ignoring the bad tape is just as silly. Every QB has bad tape, but there's a line. Jameis crossed it in 2014. Mariota has his share of misses too, but throughout his career he has minimized the damage from those miscues; something Winston failed to do throughout last year.When you're evaluating two great, but flawed, QB prospects I think what's going on upstairs is the best tie breaker. If you think that's Winston I think you're crazy, so I must think the Bucs brain trust is nuts, and if they pick him over Mariota I will.

Mariota plays in an offense that limits mistakes by its very nature and isn't near as complex as Winston's. Sure, he runs it very well and better than anyone before him. Saying Winston made more mistakes than Mariota and taking it as a number, on surface value, doesn't even begin to tell the complete story.

...and that counters my point how?

The obvious answer is he won't be playing for Oregon in the NFL. That being said, I think he'll be fine in time, if not great.

 

[MAC_32]

Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.

Ignoring the bad tape is just as silly. Every QB has bad tape, but there's a line. Jameis crossed it in 2014. Mariota has his share of misses too, but throughout his career he has minimized the damage from those miscues; something Winston failed to do throughout last year.When you're evaluating two great, but flawed, QB prospects I think what's going on upstairs is the best tie breaker. If you think that's Winston I think you're crazy, so I must think the Bucs brain trust is nuts, and if they pick him over Mariota I will.

Mariota plays in an offense that limits mistakes by its very nature and isn't near as complex as Winston's. Sure, he runs it very well and better than anyone before him. Saying Winston made more mistakes than Mariota and taking it as a number, on surface value, doesn't even begin to tell the complete story.

...and that counters my point how?

The point is that context matters and you continually sight all these "mistakes" and yet don't provide any.

Cal Bear's provided a good start. Keep watching and you'll find more of the same. Draftbreakdown's got a rather extensive database of tape.

 

[jurb26]

So again, no context provided.

Maybe we start at the first int vs. Florida. What about this int do you not like?

 

[CalBear]

Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.

Ignoring the bad tape is just as silly. Every QB has bad tape, but there's a line. Jameis crossed it in 2014. Mariota has his share of misses too, but throughout his career he has minimized the damage from those miscues; something Winston failed to do throughout last year.When you're evaluating two great, but flawed, QB prospects I think what's going on upstairs is the best tie breaker. If you think that's Winston I think you're crazy, so I must think the Bucs brain trust is nuts, and if they pick him over Mariota I will.

Mariota plays in an offense that limits mistakes by its very nature and isn't near as complex as Winston's. Sure, he runs it very well and better than anyone before him. Saying Winston made more mistakes than Mariota and taking it as a number, on surface value, doesn't even begin to tell the complete story.

I don't think Winston is a better decision-maker than Mariota. I really see no evidence of that. I watched a lot of Mariota's games and I think decision-making is his strongest point, and I don't see that for Winston.

I also think the narrative about "pro-style offense" and "NFL throws" is vacuous. More and more NFL teams are running offenses like Oregon's, so there are plenty of places Mariota can go which will appreciate the way he runs that offense.

 

[CalBear]

So again, no context provided.

Maybe we start at the first int vs. Florida. What about this int do you not like?

He stared down the receiver, which allowed the DB to make a break on the ball. The ball was also somewhat misplaced. That wasn't a bad decision but the pick is definitely on Winston.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

http://chopchat.com/2015/02/22/kinsmans-attorney-wanted-insurance-policy-jameis-winston/

I bet they file the lawsuit on Winston the day after he gets drafted.

The biggest stat going against him is 1 rape allegation that will never go away and it can and I think it will get a lot worse.

http://chopchat.com/2015/02/22/erica-kinsman-jameis-winston-drugged/?utm_source=FanSided&utm_medium=Network&utm_campaign=RecentPosts

Erica Kinsman: Jameis Winston Drugged Me

Erica Kinsman, the young woman who accused Jameis Winston of raping her back in December of 2012, is at it once again.

Kinsman will appear in a documentary due out this March called, “The Hunting Ground.” In it, she appears next to her father and describes the events of that fateful night.

As told to the Washington Post:

She says [Winston] pretended to be her boyfriend to drive a different guy away who she says was following her around the bar. Winston’s chivalry ended there, however, according to Kinsman, who recalls taking a shot with Winston that she was convinced was tainted...

He got away with it at Florida State, will he get away with it on the national stage in the NFL?

Apparently one famous celebrity never had to answer questions about it and got away with it for decades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSHt0ZAps2I

 

[jurb26]

So again, no context provided.

Maybe we start at the first int vs. Florida. What about this int do you not like?

He stared down the receiver, which allowed the DB to make a break on the ball. The ball was also somewhat misplaced. That wasn't a bad decision but the pick is definitely on Winston.

That pick isn't on Winston for the same reason the pick to end the SB isn't on Wilson only exaggerated almost 10 fold.

 

[MAC_32]

So again, no context provided.

Maybe we start at the first int vs. Florida. What about this int do you not like?

Really isn't any point to taking the time and effort. I'd rather others that want to develop their own opinion review it on their own and see what they think after watching it. It's obvious you and I came away from his film with two different opinions, not something uncommon in football. I won't change your opinion, you won't change mine.

I didn't like that he through at his first read in coverage with a clean pocket and that read not being Greene. His receivers showed throughout the year they didn't win in tight coverage, so why make that throw? It wasn't a terrible decision nor was it a terrible throw, but it certainly wasn't good. He made up his mind what he was doing pre-snap, can't do that.