QB Jameis Winston, NYG (6 Viewers)

[addicted2ff]

To me he looked like the type of QB who will pick you apart if given enough time to throw but under pressure he'll panic and make poor decisions.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

To me he looked like the type of QB who will pick you apart if given enough time to throw but under pressure he'll panic and make poor decisions.

So a young QB with talent

 

[Grahamburn]

To me he looked like the type of QB who will pick you apart if given enough time to throw but under pressure he'll panic and make poor decisions.

So a young QB with talent

Or every good QB ever.

 

[addicted2ff]

To me he looked like the type of QB who will pick you apart if given enough time to throw but under pressure he'll panic and make poor decisions.

So a young QB with talent

Or every good QB ever.

Definitely not.

Most good QBs today have a plan when getting pressured by either dumping the ball off/throwing it away/scrambling out of the pocket/taking the sack for a small loss. As of right now Winston seems like the type that will throw a jump ball into double/triple coverage or throw a pick six under duress.

Also in this last game if you watch his head and eyes they stay locked into the same side of the field. If he doesn't improve at this the safeties can just roll their coverage over to that side which means much smaller throwing windows/higher chance for interceptions.

 

[gump]

To me he looked like the type of QB who will pick you apart if given enough time to throw but under pressure he'll panic and make poor decisions.

So a young QB with talent

Or every good QB ever.

Definitely not.

Most good QBs today have a plan when getting pressured by either dumping the ball off/throwing it away/scrambling out of the pocket/taking the sack for a small loss. As of right now Winston seems like the type that will throw a jump ball into double/triple coverage or throw a pick six under duress.

Not sure what makes you think that. He did start to throw downfield as he got more into the game, but he needs to work on those throws, timing, etc also.

These were 8 of his first 10 throws. RB dumps, short passes to the TEs, a scramble for a TD, a scramble for an outside throw...

J.Winston pass short right to D.Martin to TB 29 for 9 yards (V.Rey, A.Hawk).

J.Winston pass short left to J.Lane to TB 43 for 7 yards (R.Maualuga) [C.Dunlap].

J.Winston pass short right to A.Seferian-Jenkins to CIN 31 for 11 yards (V.Rey).

J.Winston scrambles right end for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

J.Winston pass deep left to V.Jackson ran ob at TB 48 for 17 yards. PENALTY on TB-V.Jackson, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at TB 31 - No Play.

(6:30) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass short left to C.Sims pushed ob at TB 25 for 14 yards (V.Rey).

J.Winston pass incomplete short right to T.Wright.

J.Winston pass short right to L.Murphy to TB 27 for 8 yards (L.Hall, D.Kirkpatrick).

 

[mr roboto]

To me he looked like the type of QB who will pick you apart if given enough time to throw but under pressure he'll panic and make poor decisions.

So a young QB with talent

Or every good QB ever.

Definitely not.Most good QBs today have a plan when getting pressured by either dumping the ball off/throwing it away/scrambling out of the pocket/taking the sack for a small loss. As of right now Winston seems like the type that will throw a jump ball into double/triple coverage or throw a pick six under duress.

Also in this last game if you watch his head and eyes they stay locked into the same side of the field. If he doesn't improve at this the safeties can just roll their coverage over to that side which means much smaller throwing windows/higher chance for interceptions.

Agreed here. He's an amazing talent and a charismatic leader. Sky's the limit, truly. But I still maintain that he's got just as much chance of turning into Cutler as he does Roethlisberger or Favre.

 

[jurb26]

To me he looked like the type of QB who will pick you apart if given enough time to throw but under pressure he'll panic and make poor decisions.

So a young QB with talent

Or every good QB ever.

Definitely not.Most good QBs today have a plan when getting pressured by either dumping the ball off/throwing it away/scrambling out of the pocket/taking the sack for a small loss. As of right now Winston seems like the type that will throw a jump ball into double/triple coverage or throw a pick six under duress.

Also in this last game if you watch his head and eyes they stay locked into the same side of the field. If he doesn't improve at this the safeties can just roll their coverage over to that side which means much smaller throwing windows/higher chance for interceptions.

Watching the game last night I'd say the complete opposite of what you're saying here is what happened. He checked down on his first 2 pass, both completion. Both times he scanned the field, not just one side and eventually settled on his check downs. He later scrambled for a TD after running away from pressure. He never once forced a throw last night. What was most impressive about his passing last night was that he threw guys open on several occasions, rather than throwing to open guys. The most impressive of those throws were the 2x he perfectly timed and threw seem routes allowing his guys to run full speed to the open windows in the coverage, anticipating those windows before they became apparent.

 

[Grahamburn]

To me he looked like the type of QB who will pick you apart if given enough time to throw but under pressure he'll panic and make poor decisions.

So a young QB with talent

Or every good QB ever.

Definitely not.

Most good QBs today have a plan when getting pressured by either dumping the ball off/throwing it away/scrambling out of the pocket/taking the sack for a small loss. As of right now Winston seems like the type that will throw a jump ball into double/triple coverage or throw a pick six under duress.

Also in this last game if you watch his head and eyes they stay locked into the same side of the field. If he doesn't improve at this the safeties can just roll their coverage over to that side which means much smaller throwing windows/higher chance for interceptions.

I was just pointing out that the best way to beat any QB is to pressure them.

 

[addicted2ff]

To me he looked like the type of QB who will pick you apart if given enough time to throw but under pressure he'll panic and make poor decisions.

So a young QB with talent

Or every good QB ever.

Definitely not.

Most good QBs today have a plan when getting pressured by either dumping the ball off/throwing it away/scrambling out of the pocket/taking the sack for a small loss. As of right now Winston seems like the type that will throw a jump ball into double/triple coverage or throw a pick six under duress.

Not sure what makes you think that. He did start to throw downfield as he got more into the game, but he needs to work on those throws, timing, etc also.

These were 8 of his first 10 throws. RB dumps, short passes to the TEs, a scramble for a TD, a scramble for an outside throw...

J.Winston pass short right to D.Martin to TB 29 for 9 yards (V.Rey, A.Hawk).

J.Winston pass short left to J.Lane to TB 43 for 7 yards (R.Maualuga) [C.Dunlap].

J.Winston pass short right to A.Seferian-Jenkins to CIN 31 for 11 yards (V.Rey).

J.Winston scrambles right end for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

J.Winston pass deep left to V.Jackson ran ob at TB 48 for 17 yards. PENALTY on TB-V.Jackson, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at TB 31 - No Play.

(6:30) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass short left to C.Sims pushed ob at TB 25 for 14 yards (V.Rey).

J.Winston pass incomplete short right to T.Wright.

J.Winston pass short right to L.Murphy to TB 27 for 8 yards (L.Hall, D.Kirkpatrick).

The play that made me feel that way was the one where he got hurt. The Bengals made it look like they were blitzing 2 linebackers up the middle and Winston expected both of them to either blitz or drop back in coverage. Instead it was neither, 1 of them blitzed while the other one dropped back in coverage and another DE dropped back in coverage as well. Since Winston expected the 6 man rush he thought that would leave the middle of the field open.

Instead it wasn't, and while I give him credit for recognizing that the throw that was supposed to be there wasn't, he panicked and dropped back way farther than he normally does, trying to bide some time to figure out what to do next. This extra drop back meant the lineman couldn't form a pocket around him, and when it was inevitable he was going to be sacked, instead of just taking the sack he threw the ball at the last second with no ineligible receivers around for intentional grounding.

I think the sequence of plays that you're talking about were check downs from his first reads not being open, and it's a good thing that he's going through his progressions, but they weren't a function of him making a decision due to being under pressure.

 

[jurb26]

The play that made me feel that way was the one where he got hurt. The Bengals made it look like they were blitzing 2 linebackers up the middle and Winston expected both of them to either blitz or drop back in coverage. Instead it was neither, 1 of them blitzed while the other one dropped back in coverage and another DE dropped back in coverage as well. Since Winston expected the 6 man rush he thought that would leave the middle of the field open.

Instead it wasn't, and while I give him credit for recognizing that the throw that was supposed to be there wasn't, he panicked and dropped back way farther than he normally does, trying to bide some time to figure out what to do next. This extra drop back meant the lineman couldn't form a pocket around him, and when it was inevitable he was going to be sacked, instead of just taking the sack he threw the ball at the last second with no ineligible receivers around for intentional grounding.

I think the sequence of plays that you're talking about were check downs from his first reads not being open, and it's a good thing that he's going through his progressions, but they weren't a function of him making a decision due to being under pressure.

What in the world are you talking about? The play he got hurt his Olineman stepped on his foot, he thus stumbled into his drop never gathering his balance and got sacked. He never even had a chance to look downfield let alone make a pass.

 

[addicted2ff]

The play that made me feel that way was the one where he got hurt. The Bengals made it look like they were blitzing 2 linebackers up the middle and Winston expected both of them to either blitz or drop back in coverage. Instead it was neither, 1 of them blitzed while the other one dropped back in coverage and another DE dropped back in coverage as well. Since Winston expected the 6 man rush he thought that would leave the middle of the field open.

Instead it wasn't, and while I give him credit for recognizing that the throw that was supposed to be there wasn't, he panicked and dropped back way farther than he normally does, trying to bide some time to figure out what to do next. This extra drop back meant the lineman couldn't form a pocket around him, and when it was inevitable he was going to be sacked, instead of just taking the sack he threw the ball at the last second with no ineligible receivers around for intentional grounding.

I think the sequence of plays that you're talking about were check downs from his first reads not being open, and it's a good thing that he's going through his progressions, but they weren't a function of him making a decision due to being under pressure.

What in the world are you talking about? The play he got hurt his Olineman stepped on his foot, he thus stumbled into his drop never gathering his balance and got sacked. He never even had a chance to look downfield let alone make a pass.

My bad. He got hurt on a couple of plays before that. The one I was talking about he got intentional grounding called, which knocked his team out of field goal range and forced them to punt. There was also no one within a 10 yard radius that could catch the pass, which to me is a sign of panic.

 

[dhockster]

Other than a political thread, I don't think I've seen so much analysis done to support what posters already thought. The posters who loved him as a draft pick only see great things from him. The posters who bashed him as a draft pick only see all the mistakes he is making. Why don't you guys just take a step back, wait for the regular season, and actually do some analysis when the real games are played? Because right now this thread is pretty unreadable.

 

[gump]

Other than a political thread, I don't think I've seen so much analysis done to support what posters already thought. The posters who loved him as a draft pick only see great things from him. The posters who bashed him as a draft pick only see all the mistakes he is making. Why don't you guys just take a step back, wait for the regular season, and actually do some analysis when the real games are played? Because right now this thread is pretty unreadable.

Discussion about whether how he handled pressure is the most meaningful this thread has had in months.

 

[addicted2ff]

Other than a political thread, I don't think I've seen so much analysis done to support what posters already thought. The posters who loved him as a draft pick only see great things from him. The posters who bashed him as a draft pick only see all the mistakes he is making. Why don't you guys just take a step back, wait for the regular season, and actually do some analysis when the real games are played? Because right now this thread is pretty unreadable.

I'm just pointing out what I think Winston needs to work on in order to become a successful QB in the NFL based on what I saw in the last game. It would be silly to prematurely call him a bust or a success this early.

 

[Capella]

He checked down out of pressure quite a few times last night.

 

[Don't Noonan]

I thought he looked good last night but I only watched the first drive. I see him developing into a Tony Romo type player where he can put up big numbers but also make big mistakes.

 

[Faust]

Thumbs up for Jameis Winston so far:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/175932/thumbs-up-for-jameis-winston-so-far

 

[Faust]

Jameis Winston "clearly better" against Bengals, improved footwork and mechanics:

http://www.bucsnation.com/2015/8/26/9211997/jameis-winston-footwork-improved-bengals-buccaneers-greg-cosell

 

[B-Deep]

I drafted Jameis, so load up the crab legs and lets see something amazing!!!

 

[Gr00vus]

In my perpetual sloughing of the QB position for redraft, this guy is my prime target for participation in my late round QB tandem. Him and Bradford might make a nice combo, though Bradford's price might be too rich. Maybe Winston and Carr or Mariotta (in leagues that don't penalize for INTs). The Bills have decent SOS schedule match, so maybe I'll seriously gamble and target Winston and Taylor.

 

[Bri]

Saw this- No Tampa QB has ever won 40 games nor has a high draftpick QB had his rookie contract renewed

 

[Bri]

In my perpetual sloughing of the QB position for redraft, this guy is my prime target for participation in my late round QB tandem. Him and Bradford might make a nice combo, though Bradford's price might be too rich. Maybe Winston and Carr or Mariotta (in leagues that don't penalize for INTs). The Bills have decent SOS schedule match, so maybe I'll seriously gamble and target Winston and Taylor.

Ya gotta make a guess on Mariota's running stats to make a decision here

 

[Faust]

LOOK: Jameis Winston is on a Publix banner, no crab legs though

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25283434/look-jameis-winston-is-on-a-publix-banner

 

[cstu]

Other than a political thread, I don't think I've seen so much analysis done to support what posters already thought. The posters who loved him as a draft pick only see great things from him. The posters who bashed him as a draft pick only see all the mistakes he is making. Why don't you guys just take a step back, wait for the regular season, and actually do some analysis when the real games are played? Because right now this thread is pretty unreadable.

I don't have a bad thing to say about him vs. the Bengals. He has obvious arm talent and didn't make any major mistakes in the game. I'm really looking forward to the regular season and seeing if he can avoid INT's in real games.

 

[lod01]

Nice pass. WTH were you even thinking there.

 

[jurb26]

Nice pass. WTH were you even thinking there.

Strange that you weren't around last week.

 

[Capella]

That pick was horrible but he looks great when he can step up and throw.

 

[Capella]

Nice pass. WTH were you even thinking there.

Strange that you weren't around last week.

Winston had a tremendous score at PFF last week in only one half. Why would that troll come in here?

 

[jurb26]

Nice pass. WTH were you even thinking there.

Strange that you weren't around last week.

Winston had a tremendous score at PFF last week in only one half. Why would that troll come in here?

Yeah, I thought my sarcasm was apparent.

 

[Capella]

Nice pass. WTH were you even thinking there.

Strange that you weren't around last week.

Winston had a tremendous score at PFF last week in only one half. Why would that troll come in here?

Yeah, I thought my sarcasm was apparent.

It was. I was just adding on

 

[MAC_32]

That pick was horrible but he looks great when he can step up and throw.

First ive seen of him this preseason, but I thought he played poorly unless he had both a clean pocket and his first read open.

 

[Zyphros]

That pick was horrible but he looks great when he can step up and throw.

First ive seen of him this preseason, but I thought he played poorly unless he had both a clean pocket and his first read open.

I thought the same thing, although I did only see about half a quarter. I don't own him anywhere, probably because I have a bad feeling about him that I'm just not willing to pay whatever price it is to get him.

 

[Capella]

That pick was horrible but he looks great when he can step up and throw.

First ive seen of him this preseason, but I thought he played poorly unless he had both a clean pocket and his first read open.

I'll re-watch it tomorrow but I doubt he even had 5 shots with a clean pocket. Multiple jail-breaks, not exactly sure what he could have done on numerous throws. He didn't even get to his back foot twice.

 

[TripItUp]

That pick was horrible but he looks great when he can step up and throw.

First ive seen of him this preseason, but I thought he played poorly unless he had both a clean pocket and his first read open.

I'll re-watch it tomorrow but I doubt he even had 5 shots with a clean pocket. Multiple jail-breaks, not exactly sure what he could have done on numerous throws. He didn't even get to his back foot twice.

This is what I saw too.

 

[MAC_32]

That pick was horrible but he looks great when he can step up and throw.

First ive seen of him this preseason, but I thought he played poorly unless he had both a clean pocket and his first read open.

I'll re-watch it tomorrow but I doubt he even had 5 shots with a clean pocket. Multiple jail-breaks, not exactly sure what he could have done on numerous throws. He didn't even get to his back foot twice.

2&9 - clean pocket, second or third read in the flat, didn't set his feet, missed Stocker by a few feet3&9 - he had all day and should have escaped the pocket vs a 4 man rush (assuming good coverage) but spun around in a circle then got sacked

1&10 - good clean pocket, throws a strike to Murphy for 15

1&10 - had time to set his back foot but pocket was closing quick and he needed to get it out, he held it half a second too long and couldn't get a clean throw out

2&15 - he had no chance

3&22 - defense gave him 15 yd post to force punt

3&11 - he didn't have a chance but that was a terrible int, throw it away and punt

3 runs and punt

1&10 - his best play, clean pocket and hit his first read v jacks in stride running 10-15 yards across the field

2&1 - got bumped by his own guy, but terrible pass that was dropped by Desir for the int

3&7 - beat the blitz on a quick hitter over the middle for the first

2&3 - quick pa thrown semi blindly into coverage, closer to Tramon Williams for an int than Murphy for comp

3&3 - clean pocket, late on the out right, gave Gaines enough time to break it up. Would have been a tough completion a half second earlier though.

1&10 - easy bubble screen

2&6 - set his back foot, pressure was there, but this time he escaped and got five hands out of it.

3&1 - clean pocket, bad pass forced into coverage

1&10 - clean pocket, over threw ASJ by several feet across the middle

2&10 - quick dump off

Last play of the half - no chance

1&10 - clean pocket and good coverage on pa deep out, incomplete. Jameis gave Murph a chance to catch it...Evans probably does.

3&10 - no chance

 

[Faust]

Jameis Winston struggles against feisty Browns D:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000517983/article/jameis-winston-struggles-against-feisty-browns-d

 

[cstu]

Jameis Winston struggles against feisty Browns D:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000517983/article/jameis-winston-struggles-against-feisty-browns-d

Winston was lucky that more of his nine incompletions weren't snatched away by the Browns' defense.

 

[Faust]

Jameis Winston struggles in Buccaneers' loss:

http://espn.go.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/10668/jameis-winston-struggles-in-buccaneers-loss

 

[Grahamburn]

I'm much more concerned about the offensive line and the defense. Jameis is an obvious stud.

 

[jurb26]

From NFL.coms what we learned.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000518122/article/what-we-learned-bradford-taylor-have-strong-games

"1. Jameis Winston showed plenty of promise last week against the Bengals, but Cleveland's defense created all sorts of problems for Tampa Bay's rookie quarterback. The No. 1 overall pick threw for just 21 yards over his first four drives before handing the ball to Doug Martin for a 19-yard touchdown run in the second quarter. Winston really had no chance early against a Browns defensive front that chalked up two sacks right away and saw defensive lineman Desmond Bryant dominate first-year Bucs guard Ali Marpet."

 

[karmarooster]

Interesting discussion on the Audible using Winston Week 1 against the Titans. Throwback to Cam Newton's first game of 400 yards?

 

[Manster]

Using Winston week 1? No thanks. Whats the INT over/under?

 

[MAC_32]

Hmm, even worse than I thought.

@PFF_Sam: Jameis Winston's QB rating under pressure vs Cleveland was 0.0. That's not very good.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Luke Easterling ‏@LukeEasterling 26m26 minutes ago

Per @PFF, #Bucs QB Jameis Winston was pressured on 40% of his dropbacks vs. #Browns, had a QB rating of 0.0 when under pressure. Ouch.

 

[addicted2ff]

Luke Easterling ‏@LukeEasterling 26m26 minutes ago

Per @PFF, #Bucs QB Jameis Winston was pressured on 40% of his dropbacks vs. #Browns, had a QB rating of 0.0 when under pressure. Ouch.

I haven't watched this game yet but this is what I've been saying. Winston panics under pressure, and with the Tampa O-line as poor as it is, his flaws are going to stick out like a sore thumb and it'll look ugly against teams with a decent pass rush.

 

[MAC_32]

Luke Easterling ‏@LukeEasterling 26m26 minutes ago

Per @PFF, #Bucs QB Jameis Winston was pressured on 40% of his dropbacks vs. #Browns, had a QB rating of 0.0 when under pressure. Ouch.

I haven't watched this game yet but this is what I've been saying. Winston panics under pressure, and with the Tampa O-line as poor as it is, his flaws are going to stick out like a sore thumb and it'll look ugly against teams with a decent pass rush.

Thing is, the Browns don't really have that great of a pass rush.

 

[cstu]

Hmm, even worse than I thought.

@PFF_Sam: Jameis Winston's QB rating under pressure vs Cleveland was 0.0. That's not very good.

Gabbert-esque.

 

[jurb26]

Luke Easterling ‏@LukeEasterling 26m26 minutes ago

Per @PFF, #Bucs QB Jameis Winston was pressured on 40% of his dropbacks vs. #Browns, had a QB rating of 0.0 when under pressure. Ouch.

I haven't watched this game yet but this is what I've been saying. Winston panics under pressure, and with the Tampa O-line as poor as it is, his flaws are going to stick out like a sore thumb and it'll look ugly against teams with a decent pass rush.

Thing is, the Browns don't really have that great of a pass rush.

Weather or not Clev ends up having a good pass rush is kind of irrelevant. They DID have a great pass rush in this preseason game. They owned TBs Oline. Any objective viewer could see that.Personally, I have Clev as my sleeper D this year. I think they are going to be very good.

 

[MAC_32]

Luke Easterling ‏@LukeEasterling 26m26 minutes ago

Per @PFF, #Bucs QB Jameis Winston was pressured on 40% of his dropbacks vs. #Browns, had a QB rating of 0.0 when under pressure. Ouch.

I haven't watched this game yet but this is what I've been saying. Winston panics under pressure, and with the Tampa O-line as poor as it is, his flaws are going to stick out like a sore thumb and it'll look ugly against teams with a decent pass rush.

Thing is, the Browns don't really have that great of a pass rush.

Weather or not Clev ends up having a good pass rush is kind of irrelevant. They DID have a great pass rush in this preseason game. They owned TBs Oline. Any objective viewer could see that.Personally, I have Clev as my sleeper D this year. I think they are going to be very good.

I like the scheme, coaching, and while the unit lacks stars it's very deep. Still, the pass rush is far from great. An effective qb has to be a lot better than he was last night.

 

[jurb26]

Luke Easterling ‏@LukeEasterling 26m26 minutes ago

Per @PFF, #Bucs QB Jameis Winston was pressured on 40% of his dropbacks vs. #Browns, had a QB rating of 0.0 when under pressure. Ouch.

I haven't watched this game yet but this is what I've been saying. Winston panics under pressure, and with the Tampa O-line as poor as it is, his flaws are going to stick out like a sore thumb and it'll look ugly against teams with a decent pass rush.

Thing is, the Browns don't really have that great of a pass rush.

Weather or not Clev ends up having a good pass rush is kind of irrelevant. They DID have a great pass rush in this preseason game. They owned TBs Oline. Any objective viewer could see that.Personally, I have Clev as my sleeper D this year. I think they are going to be very good.

I like the scheme, coaching, and while the unit lacks stars it's very deep. Still, the pass rush is far from great. An effective qb has to be a lot better than he was last night.

Sure, he could have played better and I'm sure he will. He's a rookie after all. There were at least 3 times in the first few drives that he literally had no chance. Even Rodgers would have struggled to make something out of those plays. Generally, I think Winston has handled pressure pretty well. His pocket awareness is very good for a rookie. That doesn't change that he's a rookie. Your G gets beat cleanly at the snap and any QB is going to have problems.

There will be ups and downs. I'd fully expect Winston to make some ugly plays this year. That's the gunslinger in him. As long as he learns from it, his ceiling as a QB is remarkably high.