jtd13
Footballguy
Yep. I am sure 2 years ago he would have preferred the long-term deal, but I doubt he is sad about how it played out.
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QB Kirk Cousins, ATL (2 Viewers)
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
I don't understand why people keep parroting this narrative when it's been shown repeatedly to be patently false.
2018 is going to be a really interesting year, Kirk Cousins wise. So far, he has had the benefit of being a happy surprise in the sense that he was a backup to the Big Superstar (RGIII) who legit outplayed him and showed his worth to the team. He also had the benefit of being pitted against the thoroughly unlikeable duo of Snyder and Allen, who would not do right by him contract wise. He was a "face" who had excellent "heels" to work against. How could you fail to root for the guy in those circumstances?
Once he goes to a team like the Broncos who are managed better and once he is compensated like a true franchise Quarterback, will expectations rise? And what happens if next year he does in Denver what he did in Washington, produce good statistics but fail to make clutch plays when needed (or worse yet, deliver untimely turnovers when it counts) -- will the Internet still fawn on him as they are doing now?
Expectations are about to seriously rise for this guy. He's used to betting on himself so I'm sure he's up for the challenge. It will be an interesting year to say the least...
Once he goes to a team like the Broncos who are managed better and once he is compensated like a true franchise Quarterback, will expectations rise? And what happens if next year he does in Denver what he did in Washington, produce good statistics but fail to make clutch plays when needed (or worse yet, deliver untimely turnovers when it counts) -- will the Internet still fawn on him as they are doing now?
Expectations are about to seriously rise for this guy. He's used to betting on himself so I'm sure he's up for the challenge. It will be an interesting year to say the least...
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
If Kubiak was still there I would think Cousins would be just fine, not sure what to make of Vance in Denver. I would think you want to bring on of them Washington/Shanahan types with him to be OC or B coach at least
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
It's crazy what some of these QBs have been able to make over the last few years. Guys like Alex Smith and Sam Bradford. Even Brock Oswelier got a giant bag of money.
And I'm not sure anyone will successfully argue that Stafford should be the highest paid QB in the league, but at least the Lions were able to avoid the situation that the Redskins currently find themselves in. Cousins' numbers are almost the same as Stafford over the last 3 years. I would rather have Stafford but I can see how Cousins will break the bank thanks in part to the Lions front office.
And I'm not sure anyone will successfully argue that Stafford should be the highest paid QB in the league, but at least the Lions were able to avoid the situation that the Redskins currently find themselves in. Cousins' numbers are almost the same as Stafford over the last 3 years. I would rather have Stafford but I can see how Cousins will break the bank thanks in part to the Lions front office.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It has nothing to do with the Lions' front office - it's just timing. Whichever above average QB who's contract happens to be up next, gets paid and most likely paid better than everyone else.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This. It is just how the market works.
Stafford will be making $26.5 million this season. It goes up to $29.5 in 2019 then $31.5 million in 2020.
Kind of already calculating in what starting QBs will be making in the years ahead.
$30 million is about 17% of the total cap space projected for 2018 which seems to be going up more every year (dismissing any notion of the NFLs popularity or viewership waning) while a lot of money of course, its not that big of percentage of the total cap considering how important the starting QB position is to a team. Only the top 40 contracts count towards the cap anyways.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think Cousins will "chase the money" this offseason. Quite the opposite, in my opinion. He just got $40 million bucks for the last two years. FORTY MILLION. Suffice it to say, no matter where he lands, he's going to get a nice contract. Even if he gives a team a bargain basement deal, all things considered for QB's and their going rates etc., he still stands to make a ton MORE money regardless of where he lands. I think he is in the best possible situation a guy in his position can be in. He doesn't need to chase the money and can look around to find a team that best suits his game and chances to win a super bowl. It may not be the team with the most money or best deal, but it aint gonna suck. Good for him.
Denver seems like the perfect fit to me. Jacksonville and Arizona are close seconds since both have solid defenses and with DJ coming back, very solid running games.
Denver seems like the perfect fit to me. Jacksonville and Arizona are close seconds since both have solid defenses and with DJ coming back, very solid running games.
-OZ-
Footballguy
First the Jaguars have to actually offer him a contract. Maybe they will but that doesn't seem a certainty.
Second, while you're probably right that a Cousins led Jaguars have the best chance to win a super bowl, signing with Denver, Arizona, or Minnesota, at the least wouldn't be much worse chances. Likely they're on par.
I know you'll think I'm nuts, but I actually think cousins could lead the Jets to a super bowl within the first 3 years. They'll have to hit at receiver and get a new starting RB, but they're closer to contention than many think.
Besides, who cares if he does "chase the money"? He probably thinks he can win anywhere. How much more of a "hero" would he be if he signed with the Browns and brought them to a super bowl? I don't think he signs there, but the idea for the franchise that they could use their 1 and 4 to take Barkley, trade down, take defensive help, etc (lots of options) while actually getting a starting caliber QB might be enough for them to break the bank. He's obviously not going back home to Chicago, but Cleveland might actually have an appeal to him.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Just watching a clip of Kirk Cousins on live interview and he says that winning is his highest priority. He has money. He wants to win a lot of games and hopefully a super bowl.
Seems like a slam dunk that this would narrow things down to the Vikings, Jacksonville and Denver.
The Vikings are better positioned than both of the other teams because they do not currently have a starting QB. They do not need to trade Bortles like Jacksonville would and they have more cap space than Denver has. Denvers WR are older than the Vikings. All 3 teams do have some good weapons and supporting cast for Cousins to be successful.
Who the Vikings hire as their offensive coordinator will have some influence on Cousins decision. He praised Shanahans west coast offense, Sean McVey and that he wants to be in a similar offensive system with a good play caller. His comments made me think Bevel might hurt the Vikings chances perhaps.
Seems like a slam dunk that this would narrow things down to the Vikings, Jacksonville and Denver.
The Vikings are better positioned than both of the other teams because they do not currently have a starting QB. They do not need to trade Bortles like Jacksonville would and they have more cap space than Denver has. Denvers WR are older than the Vikings. All 3 teams do have some good weapons and supporting cast for Cousins to be successful.
Who the Vikings hire as their offensive coordinator will have some influence on Cousins decision. He praised Shanahans west coast offense, Sean McVey and that he wants to be in a similar offensive system with a good play caller. His comments made me think Bevel might hurt the Vikings chances perhaps.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I think people are making too much of the "how much money matters" to Kirk thing when talking about chances of winning based on where he goes.
Say for example he simply goes to the highest bidder, that doesn't mean "football" matters any less to him. It doesnt mean he cares any less about football by going to the Browns for 35 million a year as opposed to going to the Broncos for 27 million a year.
Also, just because he goes tot he highest bidder doesnt mean he cares any less about winning, especially if he is confident and think he can win anywhere.
Of course money matters to Kirk and every other player in the league. You are a total idiot if you think it doesn't.
edit..........I suppose I am not explaining that the way I want to. Beer will do that do ya. I suppose what I mean is that a guy can want to win as much as anyone, but might not be able to turn down an extra 5+ million per year in order to have a perceived better chance of winning.
If I decided to leave my current job and move across the country, had three offers from hospitals, does it make me any less passionate about my work if I go with the highest bidder?
Say for example he simply goes to the highest bidder, that doesn't mean "football" matters any less to him. It doesnt mean he cares any less about football by going to the Browns for 35 million a year as opposed to going to the Broncos for 27 million a year.
Also, just because he goes tot he highest bidder doesnt mean he cares any less about winning, especially if he is confident and think he can win anywhere.
Of course money matters to Kirk and every other player in the league. You are a total idiot if you think it doesn't.
edit..........I suppose I am not explaining that the way I want to. Beer will do that do ya. I suppose what I mean is that a guy can want to win as much as anyone, but might not be able to turn down an extra 5+ million per year in order to have a perceived better chance of winning.
If I decided to leave my current job and move across the country, had three offers from hospitals, does it make me any less passionate about my work if I go with the highest bidder?
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-OZ-
Footballguy
Agreed on your point but Kirk isn't deciding to leave his current employer. He basically* got fired because they don't think he's worth the money he'll demand.
But yes, if I'm forced to find a new employer, signing with the one who pays me most to do the exact same job doesn't make me any less of an attorney than if I signed with a firm known for "winning".
msommer
Footballguy
Stafford's contract is crazy. (10m of the numbers you mention refer to already paid out signing bonus)
If anyone gets at contract close to Stafford's it'll be Brees. Cousins will have to have some crazy people bidding to get there.
msommer
Footballguy
The only sure way for WAS to keep him is to franchise tag him at 34m. I think we all agree that this is a bit much.
That said there is also a dollar amount attached to "winning" - in sponsorships etc. So, honestly I think it is a bit more complicated that the numbers in the (future) employment contract.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Cleveland has the ability to give him the largest contract. My bet would be he ends up there.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
"Weis noted that his former Chiefs boss, Browns offensive coordinator Todd Haley, is "a very good playcaller'' which should be attractive to offensive players. He also believes Cousins is in the class of a Drew Brees and worth the big contract."
Sorry, but
, he's not. Not even close.
Sorry, but
, he's not. Not even close.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Agreed, just a matter of how guys actually in the NFL view the situation here. I mean, on paper, we have a good line, decent skill pieces, a decent defense, the best draft pick assortment in NFL history, and a huge amount of cap space remaining even after signing COusins to a huge contract.
Just adding Cousins to our roster from last year makes us just about as good as Washington was. Now add in that we aren't losing any of our good players, we add a lot of great high draft picks, and whatever we can add with the 60+ remaining cap space AFTER signing Cousins.
The problem with all this is the stigma of Cleveland being addicted to losing. Not just losing but dysfunctional losing.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
This likely won't happen. Kirk won't sign it for a while, and it will completely ruin washington's free agency period.Rumor has it, Wash might franchise him in order to trade him.
There is no chance Kirk complies to make that an option for them.
moleculo
Footballguy
reading the tea leaves, I fully expect Elway to make a run at Cousins and to throw a ton of money at him.
Here's the deal: Broncos brass believes they still have a championship caliber defense (as long as Talib is kept). The team is a QB and good OL away from being a contender again. The OL could be really shored up in the draft - Quentin Nelson at guard would solve a huge hole in the OL, leaving RT the only weak spot.
Using the #5 pick on QB means the 2018 season will be (another) rebuilding season. Elway wants to win now, not 2019. The most direct path back to contention is to sign Cousins.
Elway signed the last great QB free agent to hit the market (Manning), and had him in the SB within a couple of years and winning a 'ship by year 4. That's a pretty compelling argument to make.
Here's the deal: Broncos brass believes they still have a championship caliber defense (as long as Talib is kept). The team is a QB and good OL away from being a contender again. The OL could be really shored up in the draft - Quentin Nelson at guard would solve a huge hole in the OL, leaving RT the only weak spot.
Using the #5 pick on QB means the 2018 season will be (another) rebuilding season. Elway wants to win now, not 2019. The most direct path back to contention is to sign Cousins.
Elway signed the last great QB free agent to hit the market (Manning), and had him in the SB within a couple of years and winning a 'ship by year 4. That's a pretty compelling argument to make.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Can the redskins afford to tag him? If im him i sign that tag as soon ad they put it on him if they cant afford it
babydemon90
Footballguy
Probably short term, yea - but I think the issue then, Cousins doesn't sign it, but because they put the offer out there it counts to their cap, and their FA period is the suck and they miss out on upgrading where they need.
They have projected $50M in cap space, 7th most. Now the Browns and Jets have more money but the Vikings have $24M more than Denver.
I've had Vikings as favorite for awhile now myself, and would handicap them in this order and briefly why.
1. Vikings- cap space, best talent of contending teams for his services if winning matters to Cousins. Way better offensive supporting cast. He does not strike me as the kind of guy who prefers NY to Minnesota. Also I think stability will play a role in this. Vance Joseph, Hue and Bowles all seemed to barely survive getting fired and I tend to think all are on short leases.
2. Jets- Cap space second most of all teams I think would be vying for his services.
3. Broncos- cap space not in same zone as others but they can make it work, terrible OL and aging WR's. Also with pick #5 Denver might not get into as much of a bidding war if they think they can get a QB at 5 or move up. Similar situation for Jets at #6 but without moving up they got Denver in front of them and that could make all the difference in the world.
4. Browns-most money but with pick one they can get their long term QB. Smith made sense as a bridge, but not a long term commitment to Cousins.
5. Cardinals- major need but not enough money.
babydemon90
Footballguy
I think the Browns SHOULD sign him. I don't think they will. What they SHOULD do, imo - sign Cousins, draft Barkley and Fitzpatrick/Chubb/other BPA. Get back to a culture of winning. But they won't, because they're going to draft a rookie QB - who may or may not work out.
nittanylion
Footballguy
McCloughan just signed on w/ the Browns...throw another log on the fire...
Sebowski
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The Vikings have $56 million cap space as all their QB contracts cleared. They also have a hole at defensive tackle and likely at guard if Joe Berger retires as expected. From what I am reading Shariff Floyd might free up another $7 million.
Its more than enough money for Cousins even at $30 million per year as has been the reported price, but may be a bit on the high side, I don't know.
I think it is good salesmanship on the Browns part to compare Cousins to Drew Brees and hint they may be willing to pay him like it. A bidding war could cause the price to go up.
The Vikings do have several players that they will want to re-sign that they need to budget money for. So that is the tricky part, but I have full confidence they can make it work.
Another way to look at it is the Vikings spent $21 million on the QB position last season. So if Cousins is $30 it is going to cost the Vikings a higher percentage of their total cap than it did last year
The Vikings have been trying to save money at the QB position for a pretty long time now before the Bradford trade, but they aren't paying Peterson a ton of money anymore, so there is money available for spending more at the QB position now.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah the Vikings like to have cushion of another $10 million after rookie picks for emergency signings. But go big or go home. I think they need to go after the best QB available and I think that is Cousins.
If this means the Vikings have to cut Jarius Wright or Kyle Rudolph (or both) to free up Money for Diggs, Waynes, Hunter, Kendricks then so be it. Decisions to be made on if Anthony Barr deserves to be the 2nd highest player on the Vikings if they do add Cousins, then he would be 3rd. Going to have to make those decisions anyways.
The Vikings have talked about how good it was to have options in multiple QBs and I think they realize the value of a quality back up QB. So they are still likely to spend some money there as well. $3,5 million last year for Keenum and Bridgewater. I could see that number going up as well. So decisions,
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think any Qb who believes in themselves should be confident enough to turn the Browns around. I can see Cousins doing well if he goes there.
The Vikings would then need to consider lesser although more cap friendly options.
-OZ-
Footballguy
As a guy who grew up near Detroit, I'm okay with Cleveland continuing to be the laughingstock of the league.
But yes, it would actually be good for the league for the browns to be competitive.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Because they're going for best 2 out of 3 at 0-16 seasons?
Why does an NFC fan care about an AFC team being bad?
-OZ-
Footballguy
It's a Michigan/Ohio thing.
Why does an NFC fan care about an AFC team being bad?
And yeah, the 0 for thing kinda stung for a while.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
They can but that's not the biggest issue. Cousins is likely to tell them, if he hasn't already, that if they tag him he will not negotiate with any potential trade partners. That would kill all possibilities of a trade because no team is going to trade for Cousins without having a deal agreed upon.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
All three of the Vikings QBs are URFAs so that will actually loosen up the QB market if they jump into the mix rather than tighten it up because some of those QBs fit better as short-term bridges for developing rookie QBs and this draft class 'should' see four rookies drafted in the first round.
The Browns did NOT compare Cousins to Drew Brees, Charlie Weis did.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/02/kirk_cousins_price_tag_likely.html#incart_river_index
Cousins has stated he wants to play for a winner and the Vikings certainly fit the mold but they can't afford to sign him and keep those URFA QBs so if they go after him the QB market should loosen up and those teams at the top of the draft can get their rookie and a short-term bridge QB.
massraider
Footballguy
If Cousins gets tagged, he should sign that tender before it's even fully printed from the fax machine.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Oh yeah, he'd sign it, like you said before the ink was dry, but then he would sit on his hands. Redskins can't trade him and the money's guaranteed so they can't get out of it. That's the threat, and why they can't risk tagging him. They would have had to have worked something out in advance, which would have been possible but still unlikely before the Smith deal. Once that broke it was over. Cousins played it out and he won. Know when to fold 'em.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Kirk has said that he wants more than just money, that he wants to win so he wouldn't sign anything if he did not have a say on where he wants to play so the market of available teams would drop to wherever Kirk prefers to play.
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