djjosee
Footballguy
Jon Kitna 2.0
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QB Kirk Cousins, ATL (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter pizzatyme
- Start date
Me too. I almost let him go for Purdy multiple times. Eagles injured defenders changed my mind.
Gjallarhorn
Footballguy
I get it, but throwing a TD to pull within 1 score with 7 minutes left is hardly garbage time.
zoonation
Footballguy
Nah. Had the most game winning drives in the league last year.
The king of garbage time is Dak Prescott.
Does that title come with a crown and a scepter?
I thought Cousins played really well all game, not just “garbage time”. Philly dominated time of possession due to the 2 early Viking fumbles that took away possessions. Then Jefferson fumbles a would be TD possession. Minnesota could have easily had 21-28 points at the half if they hold onto the ball against what is a very good defense despite missing a couple players.
Plus I believe there were 4 drops. 2 by Osborne. Kirk played great.
Plus I believe there were 4 drops. 2 by Osborne. Kirk played great.
jumper
Footballguy
The GOAT of garbage time will always be Blake Bortles on the Jags. At least almost everyone considers both Cousins and Prescott as plausible every-week starters in 12-team fantasy, whereas fantasy owners were ashamed to admit they even rostered Bortles much less started the dude.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Cousins was #9 on my FBG Cheat Sheet with a forecast of 25.8 PPG and I got him for $2 (of $200). He’s a classic example of an aging veteran with a proven track record that owners often overlook while gunning for younger and sexier and ultimately far more risky picks. Cousin’s has been an absolute bargain so far and I’m hoping he has a season like Rich Gannon in 2002 when he was totally ignored on draft day and he had a great year for Oakland.
Guy is always underrated. Has had over 4000 yards passing in 7 of the last 8 seasons. Had over 4,500 yards passing last year and they add a speed receiver in the 1st round to pair with the best WR in football. New toy catches a 60 yard TD last night. Top flight TE in Hockenson and a very good #3 WR in Osborn. Cook gone and Mattison isn't very good to they can't run the ball efficiently. Bad defense so they will have to throw all game. Plus the guy NEVER gets hurt and plays his home games in a dome. 5000/40 would not be a shock to me this season and he was being drafted in the QB 10-13 range.
Was the best QB value this season IMO especially in 6 points per passing TD leagues
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They were down 20-7 and getting throttled - the entire game from there was garbage time.
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fightingillini
Footballguy
Cousins was one the main reasons why I won my league title last year. Solid fantasy QB despite not getting much with his legs.
Really bad take
They were down 13 against a really good team after fumbling twice in the first quarter of the game. Shocking
Got them back in the game with a long TD to Addison. Would have had the lead if Jefferson hadn't fumbled. That's not garbage time.
We get it. You don't have Cousins on your FF team, therefore he isn't good
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
It’s looking possible right now.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No, I faced him in 4 leagues. He is good. I’m just bitter and he’s the king of garbage time.We get it. You don't have Cousins on your FF team, therefore he isn't good
I saw no realistic chance of the Vikings winning once they were down 20-7. The Vikings did not disappoint.
Obviously not an easy task and probably won't hit it, BUT wouldn't be shocked if he averaged close to 300 yards a game with those weapons and having to throw as much as he will this year.
On the road against the team that played in the super bowl and turned the ball over 4 times. Yeah, a tough task to pull that one out.No, I faced him in 4 leagues. He is good. I’m just bitter and he’s the king of garbage time.We get it. You don't have Cousins on your FF team, therefore he isn't good
I saw no realistic chance of the Vikings winning once they were down 20-7. The Vikings did not disappoint.
Jefferson fumbling the ball out of the end zone was a global killer. Whole different game if they get the TD there. Not saying they would have won, but would have been very interesting anyway.
Also, none of that was "garbage time". The last TD got them to within a score. Didn't notice the Eagles had their scrubs in.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
It’s reasonable to expect some reversion to the mean here. However, let’s run some numbers…
IF Cousins has only 250 passing yards and 2 passing TDs per game the rest of the season then he’ll log 4450 passing yards and 36 TD this year. He’s a candidate for steal of the draft with those numbers.
IF Cousins can average 286.7 passing yards and 2.27 passing TDs per game the rest of the season then he’ll log 5000 passing yards and 40 TD this year. Considering his solid track record and two productive game so far this season…I think it’s plausible.
I sat him at the last minute for Richsrdson. Not his fault they lost. He is going to have his best season this year. I sat him because of the prime time rep. Not doubting again. Probably cost me a win.On the road against the team that played in the super bowl and turned the ball over 4 times. Yeah, a tough task to pull that one out.No, I faced him in 4 leagues. He is good. I’m just bitter and he’s the king of garbage time.We get it. You don't have Cousins on your FF team, therefore he isn't good
I saw no realistic chance of the Vikings winning once they were down 20-7. The Vikings did not disappoint.
Jefferson fumbling the ball out of the end zone was a global killer. Whole different game if they get the TD there. Not saying they would have won, but would have been very interesting anyway.
Also, none of that was "garbage time". The last TD got them to within a score. Didn't notice the Eagles had their scrubs in.
Yep. Cousins gets a lot of hate for sure. I don't recall anyone calling Mac Jones stats last week "garbage time". Almost the same exact game script and NE almost pulled it out. Watched a lot of that game and Philly sure wasn't playing soft.
Being down two scores in the NFL is pretty normal. "Garbage time" is when teams continue to throw when they have no chance to win the game. Yeah, if the last TD was thrown with 3 seconds left in the game, I might call it "garbage time" but not when there is a minute plus left and you have a chance for an onside kick.
zoonation
Footballguy
that ain't garbage time.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The eagles certainly took their foot off the gas defensively.On the road against the team that played in the super bowl and turned the ball over 4 times. Yeah, a tough task to pull that one out.No, I faced him in 4 leagues. He is good. I’m just bitter and he’s the king of garbage time.We get it. You don't have Cousins on your FF team, therefore he isn't good
I saw no realistic chance of the Vikings winning once they were down 20-7. The Vikings did not disappoint.
Jefferson fumbling the ball out of the end zone was a global killer. Whole different game if they get the TD there. Not saying they would have won, but would have been very interesting anyway.
Also, none of that was "garbage time". The last TD got them to within a score. Didn't notice the Eagles had their scrubs in.
That KJO TD was crazy. Just standing there alone in the end zone. Total blown coverage.
Talk about game changers - I’d say that makes up for the JJ fumble into the end zone in spades.
Anyway, I made a joke-y throw away comment last night and you’re making a mountain out of a molehill.
Cousins can be the king of garbage time in my eyes and still be a good FF QB.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I thought about putting Dak in for him because of the prime time issues of the past, but decided to show some faith. Plus my last minute changes hardly ever work out. But yeah, I wouldn't blame anyone with a good option to pull the plug last night.I sat him at the last minute for Richsrdson. Not his fault they lost. He is going to have his best season this year. I sat him because of the prime time rep. Not doubting again. Probably cost me a win.On the road against the team that played in the super bowl and turned the ball over 4 times. Yeah, a tough task to pull that one out.No, I faced him in 4 leagues. He is good. I’m just bitter and he’s the king of garbage time.We get it. You don't have Cousins on your FF team, therefore he isn't good
I saw no realistic chance of the Vikings winning once they were down 20-7. The Vikings did not disappoint.
Jefferson fumbling the ball out of the end zone was a global killer. Whole different game if they get the TD there. Not saying they would have won, but would have been very interesting anyway.
Also, none of that was "garbage time". The last TD got them to within a score. Didn't notice the Eagles had their scrubs in.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ah yes, as we all know it’s a very high % play.
There were (checks notes) 3 successful onside kicks in 2022 out of 56 chances.
No they didn't. Cousins was getting hit almost every play. Philly didn't pull back.The eagles certainly took their foot off the gas defensively.On the road against the team that played in the super bowl and turned the ball over 4 times. Yeah, a tough task to pull that one out.No, I faced him in 4 leagues. He is good. I’m just bitter and he’s the king of garbage time.We get it. You don't have Cousins on your FF team, therefore he isn't good
I saw no realistic chance of the Vikings winning once they were down 20-7. The Vikings did not disappoint.
Jefferson fumbling the ball out of the end zone was a global killer. Whole different game if they get the TD there. Not saying they would have won, but would have been very interesting anyway.
Also, none of that was "garbage time". The last TD got them to within a score. Didn't notice the Eagles had their scrubs in.
Watch the game again. Philly had some stops but overall, Minnesota moved the ball pretty well all game. Fumbled punt, Mattison fumble and Jefferson fumble all inside Philly territory. Jefferson was about a foot from scoring when he fumbled. Happens to even the greatest players.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I might have benched him for his opponent rather than the prime time rep, which as others have pointed out, is a little overstated.
And hey, at halftime he had ~90 yards and 1 TD. Probably looked like a good decision.
2nd half explosion. Wild game. Eagles defense either wore out, or lost interest. I just don’t understand how a defense can be that Jekyll & Hyde.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Whatever the circumstance, the Philly defense was ineffective in the 2nd half as compared to the 1st.
As for the turnovers, those were forced by the Philly defense. It’s not like the Vikings made unforced errors.
That's irrelevant. If you think Philly was letting him score, you're way off base. When a team has a chance to get within a score with time left on the clock. It's not "garbage time".
You just keep insisting you have a valid point when you don't.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I never said they were letting them score.
Again, you’re making a mountain out of a molehill. I called him the king of garbage time and it was tongue in cheek.
I’m not insisting I have a valid point at all. I made a joke and you’re going bananas over it. lol
LOL
What does that matter? The fact is they fumbled twice in the first half. Philly defense wasn't that effective stopping Cousins in the first half. Minny stopped themselves (sorry, no excuse for fumbling 4 times in a game regardless of defense). Philly D never backed off.
Not going banana's over anything. Just pointing out you're wrong and you keep trying to make invalid points proving you are right
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Just pointing it out because the way you phrased it the Eagles had nothing to do with those turnovers.
Anyway, you win. I was never seriously arguing anything in here. I made a joke & you’re apoplectic.
I concede. Cousins is the greatest player in the history of the NFL.
But to me he’s the king of garbage time.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No, I keep saying I don’t actually GAF and you’re arguing with things I don’t actually care about. At all.you keep trying to make invalid points proving you are right
Enjoy your day.
Gjallarhorn
Footballguy
What do your notes say that the odds are for Kirk to come back from a 33-0 deficit in the 2nd half? Were all of those stats garbage time too, by your definition?
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
I’m not sure I understand the concern over Cousins or any other player playing in a prime time game. It strikes me that a player performing poorly DUE to playing in prime time games is a function of aberrations or variations due to small sample sizes and not a statistically valid correlation. If a given player has 18 prime time games out of 100 games played, it would be reasonable to expect that the smaller 18 game sample size is subject to a broader variation in statistics (higher or lower) than the 100 game sample size yet that variation has no causality with the time slot of the game played.
Does any kind of hard statistical data exist that can actually demonstrate prime time games actual have a bearing on the performance of players?
Does any kind of hard statistical data exist that can actually demonstrate prime time games actual have a bearing on the performance of players?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I think it’s exactly that - statistical aberrations.
Those pointing to his team’s record in prime time are making a specious argument because
- football is a team spott
- those games span multiple seasons with multiple personnel combinations
- sample size is tiny compared to entire body of work
- varying opposing defenses
Cousins rep as a big game or prime time choker are wildly overstated.
There, I finally said something serious on the Cousins topic.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
100%
Playing poker and reading extensively about it taught me a lot about better understanding statistics and probabilistic thinking. It takes a long time see what’s really going on in the game and not be deceived by statistical aberrations. Most people (and I’ve been one of them) put way too much faith in conclusions from observations derived form inadequate sample sizes. A good example in poker is that it takes around 2000 hours of playing time in a cash game to validate if a given player can win consistently at a certain structure like 20/40 holdem. That’s sometime like 60,000 hands. Most players might conclude they are a consistent winner if they are up after a several trips to the casino. That’s no where close to enough of a sample to conclude anything.
I’ll just add that there are a LOT of similarities in the decision making considerations of playing poker and playing FF.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Just for fun, I asked ChatGPT about garbage time…
"Garbage time" is a colloquial term used in the NFL (and other sports) to describe a period in a game, usually towards the end, when one team has such a substantial lead that the outcome is essentially already decided. During this time, the game is often out of reach for the trailing team, and the plays or points scored may not have any significant impact on the final outcome.
A few things typically characterize garbage time:
It's worth noting that not everyone appreciates the term because it can seem dismissive of the efforts of players who are still competing, even in a lopsided game. However, the term is still commonly used in sports commentary and discussions.
—
Selfishly, I welcome as many garbage time TDs as Cousins can muster this season. Especially if that gets him to 5000/40!
"Garbage time" is a colloquial term used in the NFL (and other sports) to describe a period in a game, usually towards the end, when one team has such a substantial lead that the outcome is essentially already decided. During this time, the game is often out of reach for the trailing team, and the plays or points scored may not have any significant impact on the final outcome.
A few things typically characterize garbage time:
- Substitute Players: Coaches might pull out their starting players to avoid risk of injury and give their backups some playing experience. This is especially common if there's another important game coming up soon.
- Conservative Play: Leading teams might shift to more conservative strategies to run down the clock, while trailing teams might take more risks in an effort to close the gap—even if those risks have a low chance of paying off.
- Less Intensity: The energy and intensity of the game may diminish. This isn't to say players aren't trying, but the urgency seen earlier in the game might be reduced.
It's worth noting that not everyone appreciates the term because it can seem dismissive of the efforts of players who are still competing, even in a lopsided game. However, the term is still commonly used in sports commentary and discussions.
—
Selfishly, I welcome as many garbage time TDs as Cousins can muster this season. Especially if that gets him to 5000/40!
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
As long as I’m not playing against him in 1/2 my leagues, I’m all for it.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Everything points to massive production. Horrible defense, bad running game, good/great receiving weapons. His only knock is zero rushing output from him. By the way, I love how the Vikings use crossing routes to constantly get their big weapons open
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
If Jefferson doesn't fumble that ball out of bounds this entire narrative is different. Cousins is a weird QB. He puts up points, has a bit of swagger, but still has a lot of "Dad Vibes" and no wins when it matters. He's like Phil Rivers without the draft pedigree or more playoff wins.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Also lacks the red a$$
Rivers was a complete red a$$, and I loved him for it. He'd get spitting mad at his own OL and scream in teammates faces to get their sh** together in the huddle or on the sideline.
Truth be told, I think the vikings could use a little more of that.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Cousins plays on a team that has mediocre linemen. The team can't hide it no matter how many talent offensive players they line up on the outside. I think only the disingenuous and casuals automatically blame Cousins.
as you should.
there should be lots of it. the Minny Defense isnt THAT good. so there may be significant garbage time for cousins
They were totally dominated at times on the line.
granted its by a team that played in the superbowl last year, so maybe thats to be expected.
that play where cousins fumbled.... the LT was no more than a turnstile on that play. he didnt even slow down his man at all, so cousins got hit and the strip sack was a difference making play for Philly
And how did that work for Rivers? A great talent and didn't win anything. Showing up teammates constantly isn't a good thing for the supposed "leader" of the team. Not saying there isn't a time to jump on teammates, but Rivers went way overboard. Brady was a better example of picking the right time to make his point.
Spot on with the defense being bad and Vikings having to keep pace in a lot of high scoring games. For people that targeted Cousins this year, that was a big part of the appeal, along with Cook leaving and great receiving weapons.
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