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QB Kyler Murray, ARZ (1 Viewer)

Makes me wonder why they wouldn't have tried harder to find a vet backup that Kyler respects that could show him the ropes of being a pro. Assuming that they didn't try more. Also, assuming that Colt McCoy doesn't fit that description.

 
Kind of silly and ridiculous for this kind of $/professional. Although, it is good news/bad news I guess. If he wasn't watching film, but now doing so will make him better, then he hasn't hit a ceiling yet and that's exciting.

 
matuski said:
Might save them a couple hundred million.
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How would they prove that he didn't study 4 hours or that he did study but had the TV on?

matuski said:
Feels like Murray is benefitting big time from following Rosen.  Cardinals scared to death at possibly going back to that,
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That has certainly helped his cause. The world without a franchise QB is scary. Look how desperate teams have been the last few years. Murray did just lead them to the playoffs and has stats to back up that he's a valuable starting QB. Last year at age 23 he was 4th in YPA, 2nd in completion %, 8th in QB rating, 7th in QBR, 4th in QB rushing yards. 

 
IHEARTFF said:
Although, it is good news/bad news I guess. If he wasn't watching film, but now doing so will make him better, then he hasn't hit a ceiling yet and that's exciting.
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I'm rarely an optimist, but I have to admit that's the same thing I thought. Even a grumpy four hours spent watching film throughout the week is better than video gaming. 

 
bro1ncos said:
Makes me wonder why they wouldn't have tried harder to find a vet backup that Kyler respects that could show him the ropes of being a pro. Assuming that they didn't try more. Also, assuming that Colt McCoy doesn't fit that description.
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He does have one. In the article he says he really respects Colt McCoy in the way he prepares for a game...

 
matuski said:
Eye tracking is easy enough.  Or be in the room with him.
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There is nothing in the contract about either of those things. It's not independent study if someone from the team is there with him. He isn't going to let them put tracking devices on his phone, tablet, computer, etc. 

 
Ilov80s said:
There is nothing in the contract about either of those things. It's not independent study if someone from the team is there with him. He isn't going to let them put tracking devices on his phone, tablet, computer, etc. 
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Team provided tablet

 
bro1ncos said:
Team provided tablet
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Fair, I think I misread it. The iPad could be given with the info. It is still going to be difficult to prove. He can say he's using the iPad's blue tooth capabilities to stream the info on a larger monitor or TV. 

 
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We are talking about whether a team that just signed their franchise QB can use contract language to install eye tracking software in order to possibly not have to pay out the deal. That is not how you should treat any employee. Certainly now how you treat the face of the company with whom you  just gave $160+ million. Murray is certainly to blame for immaturity but you either move on or you work with him privately. This is the dumbest way I can imagine to deal with it. 

 
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Ilov80s said:
Not a good sign but he is also 23. I was nowhere near the serious adult or professional at 23 as I was at 25 even. I am sure there are many examples of high level NFL athletes who take a few years to fully mature as professionals. This seems like something so much better handled privately. 
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Paying them millions changes what's expected. 

Agree on the private thing. But Murray started it with the interview last year. I don't have the Times article link but I"m assuming the quote is correct: "In a 2021 interview with the New York Times, Kyler Murray said: "I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film."

 
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But yes, the bottom line is this was bungled.

You pay a zillion dollars to a QB that's probably not a top 10 guy. AND you make him mad while doing it. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Paying them millions changes what's expected. 

Agree on the private thing. But Murray started it with the interview last year. I don't have the Times article link but I"m assuming the quote is correct: "In a 2021 interview with the New York Times, Kyler Murray said: "I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film."
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I understand that but also lets be real. He is getting paid because he is an all world athlete with a cannon throwing arm. He is one of maybe 4 people on the planet who can juke an all pro LB, out run an all pro safety and deliver accurate 60 yard passes from the pocket with the snap of a wrist. To reach his full potential, he needs to grow still. No doubt. However, most NFL teams would kill to have a 23 year old all world talent like that. The money is for the talent. 

 
Ilov80s said:
There is nothing in the contract about either of those things. It's not independent study if someone from the team is there with him. He isn't going to let them put tracking devices on his phone, tablet, computer, etc. 
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I would imagine it is the team's tablet, not his.  I know my company tracks exactly when I am on the work ipad, certain apps and for how long.... would not be difficult to add eye tracking in the least.  I imagine it is somewhat common for work from home folks.

 
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matuski said:
I would imagine it is the team's tablet, not his.  I know my company tracks exactly when I am on the work ipad, certain apps and for how long.... would not be difficult to add eye tracking in the least.  I imagine it is somewhat common for work from home folks.
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See all my comments above 

 
Got a text from a leaguemate, saying he wanted to shake things up on his team, and asked if I wanted to trade QBs. I have Lamar and Hurts. I check his roster: Stafford and Kyler. I text him: I know you aren't trying to trade me the video game junkie. 

Radio silence since then. 😏

 
massraider said:
Got a text from a leaguemate, saying he wanted to shake things up on his team, and asked if I wanted to trade QBs. I have Lamar and Hurts. I check his roster: Stafford and Kyler. I text him: I know you aren't trying to trade me the video game junkie. 

Radio silence since then. 😏
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I might try to take advantage of him. Don't get lost here, it's still a mobile 23 year old QB who just signed a $200 million deal. 

 
massraider said:
Lamar and Hurts
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 I actually like this combo better, which means you should do the deal immediately. 

Nah, in all seriousness, you've got more uncertainty at your QB position, but Hurts and Jackson are upside central. If Hurts holds the job, there are few QBs I'd rather have. 

 
If you go back a year or so, it's pretty clear the org (and by org I don't mean offensive genius Kliff Kingsbury) have been growing rather unhappy with Kyler's work off the field. The 2nd of the 2nd half collapses and the Rams WC game probably sent them into overdrive. Again, you're the Cardinals you have to put your foot down at some point IMHO.

 
Ilov80s said:
I understand that but also lets be real. He is getting paid because he is an all world athlete with a cannon throwing arm. He is one of maybe 4 people on the planet who can juke an all pro LB, out run an all pro safety and deliver accurate 60 yard passes from the pocket with the snap of a wrist. To reach his full potential, he needs to grow still. No doubt. However, most NFL teams would kill to have a 23 year old all world talent like that. The money is for the talent. 
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Of course. Does anyone think he's getting paid for anything besides the talent?

My point is I see people often say the "well when I was 23, I was an idiot and did stuff".

Yeah, you weren't paid to be the face of a multi billion dollar business either. That changes expectations. Full stop. 

I get that people want to defend Murray at any cost. The reality is telling the NY Times what he did wasn't a wise thing to say. That's being "real". 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Does anyone think he's getting paid for anything besides the talent?
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Me.

I think he's getting paid for his results, not his talent. Personally as a player he's progressively gotten better each and every season. As far as the whole "leader" thing goes, his team has progressively gotten better every year that he's been there. Those aren't up for conjecture those are just facts.

His biggest failure thus far is he lost to the SB champions in the playoffs at the ripe old age of 24. IMO a whole lot of people need to go back and watch the Josh Rosen season from beginning to end to truly appreciate where the Cardinals were as an organization before Murray got there. If that's all been a result of playing video games 24hr/day.... I think more QB's need to be playing video games. 

The other reason he got paid is because ~half the league would have given just as big a deal and probably even bigger if he hit the open market. If he was an unrestricted FA right now I'm fairly confident CAR would give him a Watson deal today even if they had to cut half the team to do it. In DEN they are about to give Wilson a bigger contract than Murray just got for the privilege of watching his decline continue and according the book makers they will be fighting just to make the wild-card game. HOU would probably laugh in someone's face if they were told that they shouldn't sign Murray because he comes with baggage.... he plays video games in his free time.

 
BoltBacker said:
Me.

I think he's getting paid for his results, not his talent. Personally as a player he's progressively gotten better each and every season. As far as the whole "leader" thing goes, his team has progressively gotten better every year that he's been there. Those aren't up for conjecture those are just facts.

His biggest failure thus far is he lost to the SB champions in the playoffs at the ripe old age of 24. IMO a whole lot of people need to go back and watch the Josh Rosen season from beginning to end to truly appreciate where the Cardinals were as an organization before Murray got there. If that's all been a result of playing video games 24hr/day.... I think more QB's need to be playing video games. 

The other reason he got paid is because ~half the league would have given just as big a deal and probably even bigger if he hit the open market. If he was an unrestricted FA right now I'm fairly confident CAR would give him a Watson deal today even if they had to cut half the team to do it. In DEN they are about to give Wilson a bigger contract than Murray just got for the privilege of watching his decline continue and according the book makers they will be fighting just to make the wild-card game. HOU would probably laugh in someone's face if they were told that they shouldn't sign Murray because he comes with baggage.... he plays video games in his free time.
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Sure. Talent and results. I think everyone understands that. And for sure, market value drives everything. There's no more precious commodity in sports than a quarterback who can be elite. He's got a shot there for sure. And if Arizona didn't pay, another team surely would. 

 
BoltBacker said:
Me.

I think he's getting paid for his results, not his talent. Personally as a player he's progressively gotten better each and every season. As far as the whole "leader" thing goes, his team has progressively gotten better every year that he's been there. Those aren't up for conjecture those are just facts.

His biggest failure thus far is he lost to the SB champions in the playoffs at the ripe old age of 24. IMO a whole lot of people need to go back and watch the Josh Rosen season from beginning to end to truly appreciate where the Cardinals were as an organization before Murray got there. If that's all been a result of playing video games 24hr/day.... I think more QB's need to be playing video games. 

The other reason he got paid is because ~half the league would have given just as big a deal and probably even bigger if he hit the open market. If he was an unrestricted FA right now I'm fairly confident CAR would give him a Watson deal today even if they had to cut half the team to do it. In DEN they are about to give Wilson a bigger contract than Murray just got for the privilege of watching his decline continue and according the book makers they will be fighting just to make the wild-card game. HOU would probably laugh in someone's face if they were told that they shouldn't sign Murray because he comes with baggage.... he plays video games in his free time.
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Cards were absolutely in an impossible spot. Murray has shown enough that they couldn’t really risk trying to roll the dice on another QB again. It’s so hard to find a good one and not having one is a huge disadvantage. 

But you simply can’t include that clause. I mean, they shouldn’t have to, but putting that clause in just creates a very public rift between the team and the newly minted face of the franchise. If you’re willing to give him an extension like that, you simply have to just accept him as he is and hope that he gets more serious about that side of the game. 

For Murray, if he doesn’t get more serious about the study portion of the game, I think what we’ve seen is probably pretty close to his upside and he will continue to be a QB with huge swings in his performance and especially struggle against good defenses/defensive coordinators.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Cards were absolutely in an impossible spot. Murray has shown enough that they couldn’t really risk trying to roll the dice on another QB again. It’s so hard to find a good one and not having one is a huge disadvantage. 

But you simply can’t include that clause. I mean, they shouldn’t have to, but putting that clause in just creates a very public rift between the team and the newly minted face of the franchise. If you’re willing to give him an extension like that, you simply have to just accept him as he is and hope that he gets more serious about that side of the game. 

For Murray, if he doesn’t get more serious about the study portion of the game, I think what we’ve seen is probably pretty close to his upside and he will continue to be a QB with huge swings in his performance and especially struggle against good defenses/defensive coordinators.
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I hear you @GroveDiesel Although I didn't mind the spot the Cardinals were in. Paying top dollar for a QB that may not be in the top 10 is always a rough spot. Dallas was there with Prescott. But the bottom line is you cannot be competitive without a top 15 QB. And Murray and Prescott are that. So yes, it feels wrong to pay that much. But the reality is they had to.

What could totally have been avoided was the contract clause. That's human nature 101. But that's also how relationships break if a person doesn't feel appreciated. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
I hear you @GroveDiesel Although I didn't mind the spot the Cardinals were in. Paying top dollar for a QB that may not be in the top 10 is always a rough spot. Dallas was there with Prescott. But the bottom line is you cannot be competitive without a top 15 QB. And Murray and Prescott are that. So yes, it feels wrong to pay that much. But the reality is they had to.

What could totally have been avoided was the contract clause. That's human nature 101. But that's also how relationships break if a person doesn't feel appreciated. 
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Exactly. The nature of today’s game almost forces teams into gambling on QBs. The Cards are at least gambling on a guy with a bunch of elite tools who presumably has room to grow. I don’t know enough about Murray to know what motivates his lack of studying. If it’s sheer laziness, that’s a really bad sign. If it’s something like not learning good ways to do it, ADD, or something else like that, then there’s way more hope.

I always think that the worst spots to be in for a franchise though is paying a bunch of money on a long term deal to a good, but not great, QB. The one that really sticks out in my mind is Andy Dalton. He was good for the Bengals with some flashes and some success as a team so they kept paying him a bunch of money, but he just wasn’t good enough to get them over the hump. So the Bengals always languished as a middle of the pack team.

Murray has way more upside than Dalton ever did though. For Arizona’s sake, they now need to hope that he makes some changes to truly become elite and that they haven’t created a relationship problem that eventually leads to Murray wanting to be traded.

ETA: Lack of elite tools and a poor commitment to the game are the 2 huge red flags in my mind for a player. I remember one of the knocks on Josh Rosen was that he didn’t seem to love the game and didn’t work overly hard. His lack of success maybe seems to back that up. Josh Allen was reportedly a hard worker and his desire to get better and work hard on his flaws has paid huge dividends. Buffalo definitely seems to place a high priority on hard workers over raw tools or success even at times.

 
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zeeshan2 said:
[Urban] Kyler Murray with the surprise appearance with the media. It’s “disrespectful … almost a joke” that people could think he could’ve accomplished what he has without studying and preparing for the game. “This game is too hard” to do otherwise.

https://twitter.com/Cardschatter/status/1552705554606444544?t=Ou1TYu7QUwppAjBmAw6GUg&s=19
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I mean he’s not really wrong. People take for granted how hard this is. And he was a top-10 pick in baseball? I mean come on, he’s obviously working on his craft(s) some. Dumb thing for the Cards to do, even if they had legit concerns. 

 
facook said:
I agree.  Michael Lombardi is a self-important gas bag who is usually incorrect, but I do think he's right about Kyler.  He's good when he's healthy and happy, but he's rarely healthy and happy.  He's a whiner on the field, shows up his teammates, and is not a good leader.  
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:coffee:

 
Seems like a lot of nothing honestly. Kyler is a maturing player and this is just part of that process.

Only semi-serious with the following, but Kyler could have asked for that to be included, no? Something to help keep himself honest? Make it public so it's out there. 

 
I like to imagine Kyler throwing a temper tantrum behind the scenes in order to remove the clause in his contract that makes him look like a child.

Sweet irony.

 
wouldn't shock me at all if Murray's camp leaked the clause in the first place. The team asked for it (maybe in exchange for more $$. Who knows) and then the camp leaks it knowing what the public reaction would be (and that the team would likely be pressured into waiving it).

Yeah, its a little embarrassing that its out there, but if Murray really is a guy who doesn't care about watching film, I dont think he cares if people know it.

 
Drafting tonight and Kyler is my number 2 projected QB for the year.

I also owned him last year, so maybe I just want some redemption.

I know Hop is suspended and Kirk is gone.

Someone talk me off this ledge.
 
VikingFrog said:
Drafting tonight and Kyler is my number 2 projected QB for the year.

I also owned him last year, so maybe I just want some redemption.

I know Hop is suspended and Kirk is gone.

Someone talk me off this ledge.
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I wouldn't.

Take Herbert or Mahomes or Lamar or Burrow. Murray may have a chip on his shoulder from the whole contract thing but that isn't enough to bypass the risks.

Herbert & Burrow both look like mortal locks to start 17, Mahomes comes close. Murray looks like a serious candidate to miss time.

Herbert doesn't run like Murray but dude is very mobile, will score a few on the ground, has great weapons, no ground-and-pound back behind him, plays in the Wild Wild West division and his Head Coach makes Riverboat Ron look like Art Schlichter.

Herbert all day every day. But I wouldn't hesitate to take Mahomes, Burrow or Lamar over him either.
 
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