QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (3 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. You know who's lost to Allen or Mahomes? A lot of teams and quarterbacks.

Yes. But Mahomes and Kansas City also put up 17 points.

Watching that game Sunday, as much as everyone wants to put it on something else, I put the blame on Jackson. He didn't happen to run into a buzz saw of Patrick Mahomes posting 45 points.

It happens. Tom Brady went 3-7 in playoff games when scoring 17 or fewer points. Teams are not going to win losing the turnover battle 0 to 3, including one that literally took a TD off the board for BAL. The Ravens also had multiple bad penalties. The Chiefs came close to having a 2 to 1 advantage in time of possession. I am not suggesting Lamar played well, but the Chiefs played a lot better and cleaner than the Ravens did. Give Jackson the biggest piece of the blame pie, but there were plenty of other slices to go around.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. You know who's lost to Allen or Mahomes? A lot of teams and quarterbacks.

Yes. But Mahomes and Kansas City also put up 17 points.

Watching that game Sunday, as much as everyone wants to put it on something else, I put the blame on Jackson. He didn't happen to run into a buzz saw of Patrick Mahomes posting 45 points.

Yep. Others can spit it however they want, but that game was there for the taking, and Lamar and the offense blew it.

While there is certainly plenty of blame to go around, the QB is often seen as the leader, and Jackson didn't do a good job leading Sunday. And the rest of the team followed his lead and unraveled.

 

[FarFromHome]

The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. You know who's lost to Allen or Mahomes? A lot of teams and quarterbacks.

Yes. But Mahomes and Kansas City also put up 17 points.

Watching that game Sunday, as much as everyone wants to put it on something else, I put the blame on Jackson. He didn't happen to run into a buzz saw of Patrick Mahomes posting 45 points.

Yep. Others can spit it however they want, but that game was there for the taking, and Lamar and the offense blew it.
While there is certainly plenty of blame to go around, the QB is often seen as the leader, and Jackson didn't do a good job leading Sunday. And the rest of the team followed his lead and unraveled.

Yep. This was on Lamar. Tough loss. Like u said, it was there. He just couldn't make the crunch time plays that a Mahomes or even a Burrow has done. At 27 he still has time to turn that narrative around, but it's gonna be a long off-season for him.

 

[JohnnyU]

The arm and brain needs to be a priority over the legs. Not saying abandon his running, but it should compliment, not supersede. He needs to work on the finer nuances of the position in order to become a complete QB.

 

[FarFromHome]

The arm and brain needs to be a priority over the legs. Not saying abandon his running, but it should compliment, not supersede. He needs to work on the finer nuances of the position in order to become a complete QB.

Agreed. When I watch him it just feels like he reads his own press and it's working against him. What I mean, is that I think he desperately wants to be viewed as pocket passer. I feel there are so many times when he needs to take off and use that amazing athletic ability, but he simply wants to hang in looking downfield. Not necessarily bad, but he needs to find a balance. I can't tell u how many times I watched him play and would scream, "run!!!" You can say what you want about Purdy, one thing I've noticed that he is really good at is knowing when to simply take off running. I wish Lamar would improve that.

 

[ChiefD]

The offensive coordinator needs to wear this too. He got spooked by Spags running tight run D that first series. When they went 3 and out and then the Chiefs marched right down and scored, he panicked.

Ravens needed to stay with the run. That game is an entirely different ball game if the ravens stick to their gosh dang strength as the #1 run team in the league.

That was the one weak point of that D and they coach panicked after being down 7-0.

Jackson is not a pure drop back passer. But his passing looks a ****-ton better when the Chiefs don’t know its coming for 3.5 quarters.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. You know who's lost to Allen or Mahomes? A lot of teams and quarterbacks.

Yes. But Mahomes and Kansas City also put up 17 points.

Watching that game Sunday, as much as everyone wants to put it on something else, I put the blame on Jackson. He didn't happen to run into a buzz saw of Patrick Mahomes posting 45 points.

It happens. Tom Brady went 3-7 in playoff games when scoring 17 or fewer points. Teams are not going to win losing the turnover battle 0 to 3, including one that literally took a TD off the board for BAL. The Ravens also had multiple bad penalties. The Chiefs came close to having a 2 to 1 advantage in time of possession. I am not suggesting Lamar played well, but the Chiefs played a lot better and cleaner than the Ravens did. Give Jackson the biggest piece of the blame pie, but there were plenty of other slices to go around.

Fair take.

I said in the game topic - you cannot give Mahomes/Chiefs 30 free yards on 2 out of 3 plays and expect to win.

Were they maybe a little ticky tacky? Maybe one. But why even put the refs in a position to have to make the call when in 2023-2024 NFL you know that 90% of the time it’ll favor the QB, (especially THAT QB)

The flowers fumble cost them 6. That’s not even a debate.

That said, the Ravens D played well enough to win, Lamar didn’t do quite enough, and overall it was a bizarre gameplay with 11 designed runs all game (6 RB, 2 flowers & reportedly 3 LJax?

And when they threw the ball it wasn’t distributed nearly enough. So many weapons, so little vision. Some of that was on LJax as well.

So I agree - plenty of blame to go around.

 

[ghostguy123]

Expectations are a tricky thing as well.

If someone had said in August, "Lamar will have a really good season, and the Ravens will get to the AFCCG and lose to Mahomes and the Chiefs," I think most people would have thought, "Okay, that will be a successful season all things considered," but what happened is that he is the likely MVP, they had the number 1 defense, they got the number 1 seed, and because they could only score 10 points, they lost to the Chiefs despite holding Mahomes to only 17 points.

What I find interesting as well are the people who have said for years that they need to get the Ravens more weapons for Lamar and let him throw him more, so they got him more weapons and he threw more last week, and look how that turned out.

Absolutely. Holding the Chiefs to 17 points and losing is rough.

And also agree completely on the weapons thing. Mark Andrews, Zay Flowers, Isaiah LIkely, Odell Beckham Jr. The "no weapons" excuse is gone.

Andrews first game back. Flowers a rookie who cost them a TD being stupid, Likely????? He's ok but come on, and OBJ???? For real???

Where do we rank their receiving weapons in the NFL?

That said, Lamar does seem to suck in the playoffs for some reason.

I'd have to think a bit more to rank the Raven receiving corps. But they're really good and much better this year.

This was all the talk this summer. https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/news/...ffensive-weapons-odell-beckham-jr-zay-flowers

OB J sucks.
Flowers was a rookie, really good, but obviously had his rookie issues this game.
Andrews wasn't anywhere near himself.
Likely is meh

 

[kface]

The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. You know who's lost to Allen or Mahomes? A lot of teams and quarterbacks.

Yes. But Mahomes and Kansas City also put up 17 points.

Watching that game Sunday, as much as everyone wants to put it on something else, I put the blame on Jackson. He didn't happen to run into a buzz saw of Patrick Mahomes posting 45 points.

It happens. Tom Brady went 3-7 in playoff games when scoring 17 or fewer points. Teams are not going to win losing the turnover battle 0 to 3, including one that literally took a TD off the board for BAL. The Ravens also had multiple bad penalties. The Chiefs came close to having a 2 to 1 advantage in time of possession. I am not suggesting Lamar played well, but the Chiefs played a lot better and cleaner than the Ravens did. Give Jackson the biggest piece of the blame pie, but there were plenty of other slices to go around.

Fair take.

I said in the game topic - you cannot give Mahomes/Chiefs 30 free yards on 2 out of 3 plays and expect to win.

Were they maybe a little ticky tacky? Maybe one. But why even put the refs in a position to have to make the call when in 2023-2024 NFL you know that 90% of the time it’ll favor the QB, (especially THAT QB)

The flowers fumble cost them 6. That’s not even a debate.

That said, the Ravens D played well enough to win, Lamar didn’t do quite enough, and overall it was a bizarre gameplay with 11 designed runs all game (6 RB, 2 flowers & reportedly 3 LJax?

And when they threw the ball it wasn’t distributed nearly enough. So many weapons, so little vision. Some of that was on LJax as well.

So I agree - plenty of blame to go around.

His oline played amazing. As i said upthread if you gave the Mahones the amount of time LJ had in the pocket to throw Mahones would have thrown for 800 yards. Lots of this I on LJ. If Mahones can find justin watson open LJ has no excuse

 

[fred_1_15301]

The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. You know who's lost to Allen or Mahomes? A lot of teams and quarterbacks.

Yes. But Mahomes and Kansas City also put up 17 points.

Watching that game Sunday, as much as everyone wants to put it on something else, I put the blame on Jackson. He didn't happen to run into a buzz saw of Patrick Mahomes posting 45 points.

It happens. Tom Brady went 3-7 in playoff games when scoring 17 or fewer points. Teams are not going to win losing the turnover battle 0 to 3, including one that literally took a TD off the board for BAL. The Ravens also had multiple bad penalties. The Chiefs came close to having a 2 to 1 advantage in time of possession. I am not suggesting Lamar played well, but the Chiefs played a lot better and cleaner than the Ravens did. Give Jackson the biggest piece of the blame pie, but there were plenty of other slices to go around.

Fair take.

I said in the game topic - you cannot give Mahomes/Chiefs 30 free yards on 2 out of 3 plays and expect to win.

Were they maybe a little ticky tacky? Maybe one. But why even put the refs in a position to have to make the call when in 2023-2024 NFL you know that 90% of the time it’ll favor the QB, (especially THAT QB)

The flowers fumble cost them 6. That’s not even a debate.

That said, the Ravens D played well enough to win, Lamar didn’t do quite enough, and overall it was a bizarre gameplay with 11 designed runs all game (6 RB, 2 flowers & reportedly 3 LJax?

And when they threw the ball it wasn’t distributed nearly enough. So many weapons, so little vision. Some of that was on LJax as well.

So I agree - plenty of blame to go around.

His oline played amazing. As i said upthread if you gave the Mahones the amount of time LJ had in the pocket to throw Mahones would have thrown for 800 yards. Lots of this I on LJ. If Mahones can find justin watson open LJ has no excuse

You do know he’s called “Mahomes “ and not “Mahones” right?

 

[JohnnyU]

The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. You know who's lost to Allen or Mahomes? A lot of teams and quarterbacks.

Yes. But Mahomes and Kansas City also put up 17 points.

Watching that game Sunday, as much as everyone wants to put it on something else, I put the blame on Jackson. He didn't happen to run into a buzz saw of Patrick Mahomes posting 45 points.

It happens. Tom Brady went 3-7 in playoff games when scoring 17 or fewer points. Teams are not going to win losing the turnover battle 0 to 3, including one that literally took a TD off the board for BAL. The Ravens also had multiple bad penalties. The Chiefs came close to having a 2 to 1 advantage in time of possession. I am not suggesting Lamar played well, but the Chiefs played a lot better and cleaner than the Ravens did. Give Jackson the biggest piece of the blame pie, but there were plenty of other slices to go around.

Fair take.

I said in the game topic - you cannot give Mahomes/Chiefs 30 free yards on 2 out of 3 plays and expect to win.

Were they maybe a little ticky tacky? Maybe one. But why even put the refs in a position to have to make the call when in 2023-2024 NFL you know that 90% of the time it’ll favor the QB, (especially THAT QB)

The flowers fumble cost them 6. That’s not even a debate.

That said, the Ravens D played well enough to win, Lamar didn’t do quite enough, and overall it was a bizarre gameplay with 11 designed runs all game (6 RB, 2 flowers & reportedly 3 LJax?

And when they threw the ball it wasn’t distributed nearly enough. So many weapons, so little vision. Some of that was on LJax as well.

So I agree - plenty of blame to go around.

His oline played amazing. As i said upthread if you gave the Mahones the amount of time LJ had in the pocket to throw Mahones would have thrown for 800 yards. Lots of this I on LJ. If Mahones can find justin watson open LJ has no excuse

You do know he’s called “Mahomes “ and not “Mahones” right?

At least he isn’t MAUTO.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. The last two post seasons Lamar played in, he won a game and then lost to Allen or Mahomes. You know who's lost to Allen or Mahomes? A lot of teams and quarterbacks.

Yes. But Mahomes and Kansas City also put up 17 points.

Watching that game Sunday, as much as everyone wants to put it on something else, I put the blame on Jackson. He didn't happen to run into a buzz saw of Patrick Mahomes posting 45 points.

It happens. Tom Brady went 3-7 in playoff games when scoring 17 or fewer points. Teams are not going to win losing the turnover battle 0 to 3, including one that literally took a TD off the board for BAL. The Ravens also had multiple bad penalties. The Chiefs came close to having a 2 to 1 advantage in time of possession. I am not suggesting Lamar played well, but the Chiefs played a lot better and cleaner than the Ravens did. Give Jackson the biggest piece of the blame pie, but there were plenty of other slices to go around.

Fair take.

I said in the game topic - you cannot give Mahomes/Chiefs 30 free yards on 2 out of 3 plays and expect to win.

Were they maybe a little ticky tacky? Maybe one. But why even put the refs in a position to have to make the call when in 2023-2024 NFL you know that 90% of the time it’ll favor the QB, (especially THAT QB)

The flowers fumble cost them 6. That’s not even a debate.

That said, the Ravens D played well enough to win, Lamar didn’t do quite enough, and overall it was a bizarre gameplay with 11 designed runs all game (6 RB, 2 flowers & reportedly 3 LJax?

And when they threw the ball it wasn’t distributed nearly enough. So many weapons, so little vision. Some of that was on LJax as well.

So I agree - plenty of blame to go around.

While I agree, but let's say for the sake of argument that Flowers didn't fumble and scored, and the Ravens went on to win, say, 20-17 in regulation. Despite the defense pitching a shutout in the second half, Lamar would have gotten the lion's share of the credit for leading an amazing 2nd half comeback over Mahomes and the Chiefs, so if he gets most of the credit for a win, it should stand to reason that he should get the lion's share when they lose especially since the offense, which he leads, is the reason they lost. I agree that QBs often get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses, but if we are going to be consistent, then Lamar has to get the largest share of the blame pie for this debacle.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Yes Lamar needs to tighten up his game in the playoffs but the future is bright, imo. As a comp I looked at Peyton Manning's career and it was interesting to see how similar the two careers overlap so far. In Manning's first nine seasons he went 6-3 in the playoffs with one trip to AFC Championship game which his Colts lost to NE. He threw 15tds against 8 ints. and had a 60% completion percentage. His teams averaged 21.7 pts/gm in that span. I remember a lot of similar talk of Manning being a regular season qb who wilted in the playoffs until...he won the SB. As Steve Young said, Lamar needs to get that monkey off his back.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

but if we are going to be consistent, then Lamar has to get the largest share of the blame pie for this debacle.

I give him the biggest share of the blame for the brainless interception.

The 1 thing he couldn’t do there with the game on the line, needing a FG was throw up a YOLO pass, and yet that’s exactly what he did.

To me that puts a lion’s share of blame on him.

But there were others as well, is all I’m saying.

 

[Biabreakable]

Expectations are a tricky thing as well.

If someone had said in August, "Lamar will have a really good season, and the Ravens will get to the AFCCG and lose to Mahomes and the Chiefs," I think most people would have thought, "Okay, that will be a successful season all things considered," but what happened is that he is the likely MVP, they had the number 1 defense, they got the number 1 seed, and because they could only score 10 points, they lost to the Chiefs despite holding Mahomes to only 17 points.

What I find interesting as well are the people who have said for years that they need to get the Ravens more weapons for Lamar and let him throw him more, so they got him more weapons and he threw more last week, and look how that turned out.

Absolutely. Holding the Chiefs to 17 points and losing is rough.

And also agree completely on the weapons thing. Mark Andrews, Zay Flowers, Isaiah LIkely, Odell Beckham Jr. The "no weapons" excuse is gone.

Andrews first game back. Flowers a rookie who cost them a TD being stupid, Likely????? He's ok but come on, and OBJ???? For real???

Where do we rank their receiving weapons in the NFL?

That said, Lamar does seem to suck in the playoffs for some reason.

I'd have to think a bit more to rank the Raven receiving corps. But they're really good and much better this year.

This was all the talk this summer. https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/news/...ffensive-weapons-odell-beckham-jr-zay-flowers

OB J sucks.
Flowers was a rookie, really good, but obviously had his rookie issues this game.
Andrews wasn't anywhere near himself.
Likely is meh

Joe is totally exaggerating the quality of the Ravens skill player group here to make his point.

 

[Faust]

Ravens QB Lamar Jackson wins AP 2023 NFL Most Valuable Player award