Dizzy
Footballguy
Oh OK... you guys are talking about best QUARTERBACK in the NFL (which is probably still Patrick Mahomes IMO)... not necessarily the best player... which is probably Miles Garrett.
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QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter massraider
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Oh OK... you guys are talking about best QUARTERBACK in the NFL (which is probably still Patrick Mahomes IMO)... not necessarily the best player... which is probably Miles Garrett.
Gjallarhorn
Footballguy
Let me rephrase, Lamar is having one of the best statistical seasons in the history of the NFL. I guess I do not really care about who is truly the best and I should not have framed my comment that way.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Agreed. Lamar Jackson is the best QB when it matters the least.
The_Man
Footballguy
Was looking at some stats and came to the realization Lamar is having one of the greatest QB seasons of all time
Since Week 3, Lamar has a 128.5 passer rating.
The only QB in NFL history ever to have a higher passer rating over any 12-game span is Peyton Manning’s 128.7 in 2004
Since Week 5, Lamar has a 127.4 rating
Only 4 other QBs have ever recorded a 127+ passer rating over a 10-game span. Those spans came during some of the most legendary QB seasons of all time
Brady 2007 (134.0 passer rating)
Manning 2004 (128.9, actually had 4 different 10-week spans over 127 that season)
Rodgers 2011 (128.8)
Steve Young 1994 (127.9)
Lamar currently has a 120.7 passer rating for the season. Only Manning's 121.1 in 04 and Rodgers with a 122.5 (in 2011) and a 121.5 (in 2020) have ever had a higher season-long passer ratting
Plus Lamar is on pace to rush for 903 yards this season. Only 4 QBs in history have ever rushed for more yards in a a season
Manning was 28 in his amazing 2004 season. Lamar is 27. Manning was 30 when he won his first Super Bowl with the Colts. Lamar is very much following Peyton's trajectory and absolutely needs to win a Super Bowl to secure his legacy as one of the all-time Top 10 QBs. But it's foolish to think he won't, as he is clearly getting better and better (just like Manning did)
BTW, Allen and Lamar have basically the same stats over the past 5 weeks. For the past 10 weeks and for the entire season, Lamar's stats are markedly better
Since Week 3, Lamar has a 128.5 passer rating.
The only QB in NFL history ever to have a higher passer rating over any 12-game span is Peyton Manning’s 128.7 in 2004
Since Week 5, Lamar has a 127.4 rating
Only 4 other QBs have ever recorded a 127+ passer rating over a 10-game span. Those spans came during some of the most legendary QB seasons of all time
Brady 2007 (134.0 passer rating)
Manning 2004 (128.9, actually had 4 different 10-week spans over 127 that season)
Rodgers 2011 (128.8)
Steve Young 1994 (127.9)
Lamar currently has a 120.7 passer rating for the season. Only Manning's 121.1 in 04 and Rodgers with a 122.5 (in 2011) and a 121.5 (in 2020) have ever had a higher season-long passer ratting
Plus Lamar is on pace to rush for 903 yards this season. Only 4 QBs in history have ever rushed for more yards in a a season
Manning was 28 in his amazing 2004 season. Lamar is 27. Manning was 30 when he won his first Super Bowl with the Colts. Lamar is very much following Peyton's trajectory and absolutely needs to win a Super Bowl to secure his legacy as one of the all-time Top 10 QBs. But it's foolish to think he won't, as he is clearly getting better and better (just like Manning did)
BTW, Allen and Lamar have basically the same stats over the past 5 weeks. For the past 10 weeks and for the entire season, Lamar's stats are markedly better
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Love me some Lamar. He is having an amazing season! I hope he can answer the bell and get a deep playoff run this year, but he’s gonna have to borrow Allen’s Superman cape. The BAL D is just struggling so badly.
I can’t bring myself to pull the trigger, but I really want to bench him in my main money league against PIT. I have Darnold, who I feel like has a higher floor than Lamar against PIT. But I gotta ride with Lamar.
I can’t bring myself to pull the trigger, but I really want to bench him in my main money league against PIT. I have Darnold, who I feel like has a higher floor than Lamar against PIT. But I gotta ride with Lamar.
I am not saying that PIT will take it easy since it is a rivalry after all. But they are in the middle of a brutal stretch (PHI, BAL, KC), banged up a bit and their next two games after BAL are more important…
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Yeah, all good points, but PIT has been Lamar’s kryptonite.
And fantasy-wise, I got a bad feeling about a down week with some questionable injuries and bad match-ups for my bellcow players. Trying hard not to get too cute and overthink my line up.
True. That last loss has to sting so bad, I think he wants to light them up and leave no doubt
The_Man
Footballguy
Over the last 4 games, the Ravens are #2 in Passing Yards allowed, #10 in rushing yards (including games vs Pittsburgh and Philly) and #9 in points allowed. Moving Kyle Hamilton to deep Safety has made them a league-average defense at worst and probably more like a Top 10 D.
Really? First time he's had to make the players around him better and he's failed to do it. He is being exposed. The defense is carrying KC.
Remarkable that the Ravens are on top of team DVOA despite the defense and special teams being abysmal for most of the season. Lamar has been truly special.
I love the notion that Lamar has some amazing supporting cast. Henry is great although a good chunk on this board were expecting him to show some signs of being washed and Andrews was bad the first 6 weeks and is now somewhere close to good again. I don’t think Zay or Bateman are particularly close to top half of the league as wr1/2s and the offensive line was a major major question going into the season. I think it’s a stretch to call Lamar’s supporting cast anything better than league average.
Maybe worth noting that Lamar has only played Pittsburgh in Baltimore once in his entire career and that was during the weird Covid year with like 5000 fans in attendance and Stanley got injured in the first half (Lamar did not play well)
I love the notion that Lamar has some amazing supporting cast. Henry is great although a good chunk on this board were expecting him to show some signs of being washed and Andrews was bad the first 6 weeks and is now somewhere close to good again. I don’t think Zay or Bateman are particularly close to top half of the league as wr1/2s and the offensive line was a major major question going into the season. I think it’s a stretch to call Lamar’s supporting cast anything better than league average.
Maybe worth noting that Lamar has only played Pittsburgh in Baltimore once in his entire career and that was during the weird Covid year with like 5000 fans in attendance and Stanley got injured in the first half (Lamar did not play well)
Dizzy
Footballguy
Well, that's not true.
No sense arguing over it though. The play-offs are coming - ooh, I think i just heard Lamar start to shrivel.
All Lamar owners should bench him if they have a viable second QB, agreed.
I don’t see it guys. Lamar should be great today as per usual.
un-Likely
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Didn’t see the game, but happy for the points!
I may be dumb, but I’m not stupid.
I may be dumb, but I’m not stupid.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
There's no way the dupes saying to bench Lamar actually have him rostered.
I put in my lineups for the rest of the season around week 10 and had Love in over him. Obviously didn't stick with that but I'm sure other owners seriously contemplated other options.
I tried to argue with someone in the Josh Allen thread, that Allen is not the favorite to win MVP "in a landslide" (their wording, not mine), but...
Lamar is having a Manning/Brady passing season while rushing for 1k. It is ridiculous.
And I am saying this as a Steelers fan.
I think it should be between Lamar and Allen with Lamar winning unless the last 2 weeks changes our mind. However, MVP is very much a narrative driven award. With Buffalo having a few more wins, for some reason the narrative is that Allen has raised his team up more than Lamar. I also think that Lamar winning it last year, seems to be a negative for him with the voters as there seems to be a feeling that to win back to back, you have to be the clear best player in the league the second year or it should go to the other person that is close. . . I don't agree with it, but the consensus among sports writers seems to be that Allen is the clear front runner. Given that sports writers are the voters, I think Allen wins by a decent amount unless Buffalo collapses these last couple games.
The_Man
Footballguy
Lamar's 120.6 passer rating is the 3rd highest ever for the first 15 games of a season behind
Rodgers 122.5 (2011)
Manning 121.4 (2004)
Note: Rodgers only played the first 15 games in 2011, as the Packers went 14-1. His 122.5 that year is the all-time record for a season-long passer rating
That 120.6 would be the 4th-highest season total ever, behind:
Rodgers 122.5 (2011)
Rodgers 121.5 (2020)
Manning 121.1 (2004)
A few years ago - maybe in this very thread - when someone was comparing Lamar to Ronnie Brown running the Wildcat, I said he was more like what if Chad Pennington could run like Barry Sanders
This year, it's more like what if Drew Brees could run like Jamaal Charles. Lamar is running less, and juking less when he runs, but still takes the Ferrari out of the garage every now and then. That third down throw down the sideline to Flowers in the 4th quarter was as good as it gets in the NFL - he had Andrews open on a cross for the first down but saw his #1 WR get a free release in single coverage and laid it in his hands, in-stride, 35 yards down the field
It used to be true that the way to beat Lamar was force him to pass downfield outside the numbers. I think blindside pressure with a 4-man rush is the only way to stop him now
Looking at you Ronnie Stanley...
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Stats alone, people are going to look back on 2024 and wonder how the heck this wasn’t an MVP season
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
If I were making the case for Josh Allen to win MVP it would be: a) He doesn't have as many good players on his team as Baltimore has and b) He is a heathen hell-beast of an athlete - maybe the best I've ever seen at QB; basically a better Cam Newton. Baltimore demolished Buffalo this season.
Lamar Jackson - as @The_Man outlined above - is having a (an?) historic season passing the ball. His efficiency numbers are off of the charts. I can remember one - ONE - bad pass he's made all season, and I've had people almost convince me it was Bateman's fault (the INT Saturday). Comparing him to Brees ain't far off. He's throwing darts out there, man. AND he's gonna have 900+ yards rushing
This is next-level ****, brothers and sisters.
Call me a homer if you want (I think most here know I'm pretty clear-eyed about the teams & players I follow), but Jackson's the best and most valuable player in the league. If Allen wins, that's cool - he's great and will be in the HOF the second he's eligible. I don't know, however, that you can't give it to Jackson at this point.
Lamar Jackson - as @The_Man outlined above - is having a (an?) historic season passing the ball. His efficiency numbers are off of the charts. I can remember one - ONE - bad pass he's made all season, and I've had people almost convince me it was Bateman's fault (the INT Saturday). Comparing him to Brees ain't far off. He's throwing darts out there, man. AND he's gonna have 900+ yards rushing
This is next-level ****, brothers and sisters.Call me a homer if you want (I think most here know I'm pretty clear-eyed about the teams & players I follow), but Jackson's the best and most valuable player in the league. If Allen wins, that's cool - he's great and will be in the HOF the second he's eligible. I don't know, however, that you can't give it to Jackson at this point.
Nevermore
Footballguy
I believe and at least for the purpose of yesterdays game, Lamar found the antidote for the Steelers Kryptonite and that came in the name of Derrick Henry.
Tau837
Footballguy
From PFR:
If I had a MVP vote, I would vote for Jackson as of right now.
- Accuracy:
- Completion percentage: Jackson 67.9% (#9), Allen 63.8% (#22)
- On target percentage: Jackson 74.0% (#11), Allen 70.9% (#23)
- Bad throw percentage: Jackson 13.8% (#16), Allen 17.2% (#27)
- Passing yards:
- Y/A: Jackson 8.9 (#1), Allen 7.8 (#8)
- AY/A: Jackson 10.18 (#1), Allen 8.33 (#7)
- NY/A: Jackson 8.11 (#1), Allen 7.42 (#5)
- ANY/A: Jackson 9.36 (#1), Allen 7.95 (#3)
- Y/C: Jackson 13.1 (#2), Allen 12.2 (#6)
- Passing outcomes:
- Passing success percentage: Jackson 51.7% (#5), Allen 48.9% (#9)
- Passing first down percentage: Jackson 41.9% (#2), Allen 36.0% (#12T)
- Passing TD percentage: Jackson 8.7% (#1), Allen 5.7% (#7)
- Interception percentage: Jackson 0.9% (#2), Allen 1.3% (#5)
- Sack percentage: Allen 2.98% (#2), Jackson 4.9% (#7)
- Ratings:
- NFL passer rating: Jackson 120.6 (#1), Allen 101.2 (#10)
- QBR: Allen 76.7 (#1), Jackson 75.5 (#2)
- Grades (minimum 100 dropbacks):
- PFF offense grade: Jackson 92.9 (#1), Allen 90.9 (#3)
- PFF passing grade: Jackson 92.0 (#1), Allen 80.5 (#8)
- PFF running grade: Allen 94.0 (#1), Jackson 80.0 (#9)
- Passing metrics (minimum 100 dropbacks):
- Big time throw percentage: Allen 7.0% (#1), Jackson 5.5% (#7)
- Turnover worthy play percentage: Jackson 1.5% (#1), Allen 2.7% (#17)
- Adjusted completion percentage: Jackson 77.4% (#15), Allen 73.2% (#29T)
- ADOT: Jackson 9.4 (#4T), Allen 8.8 (#9T)
- NFL passer rating under pressure (minimum 20 attempts): Jackson 87.9 (#5), Allen 72.8 (#17)
- Deep passing (20+ yards) NFL passer rating (minimum 20 attempts): Jackson 126.0 (#2), Allen 65.6 (#30)
- QB rushing:
- YPA: Jackson 6.1 (#4), Allen 5.3 (#9)
- Yards after contact per attempt: Allen 3.23 (#8T), Jackson 2.95 (#11)
- Misssed tackles forced: Jackson 37 (#1), Allen 20 (#3T)
- 10+ yard runs: Jackson 32 (#1), Allen 16 (#9)
- 15+ yard runs: Jackson 9 (#1), Allen 1 (#8T)
- First downs: Allen 48 (#2), Jackson 40 (#4)
- Completion percentage over expected (CPOE): Jackson 5.4 (#5), Allen 1.1 (#17)
- Success rate: Jackson 52.4% (#4), Allen 52.2% (#5)
- Adjusted EPA/play: Allen 0.332 (#1), Jackson 0.302 (#2)
If I had a MVP vote, I would vote for Jackson as of right now.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
I cashed out my Allen MVP ticket at +500 as I think there is a chance for Lamar to win it (gave up the +650 I bought at)
Allen is going to have garbage statistics to end the year, yesterday he had chances to run for first downs and instead threw up prayers to covered targets. The Bills are all but locked in to the two while Lamar is still playing for something.
That being said, using statistics to make your point in football is silly. QB1 throws a 30 yard gain to a covered target while scrambling from an unblocked rusher as he is falling out of bounds. QB2 throws a 2 yard well designed screen that the RB takes to the house for 50 yards.
The statistics show that QB2 made the better play. Please. You need to watch the plays and consider the TEAM, the game situation the play happened in and the quality of the opponents defence.
Allen is going to have garbage statistics to end the year, yesterday he had chances to run for first downs and instead threw up prayers to covered targets. The Bills are all but locked in to the two while Lamar is still playing for something.
That being said, using statistics to make your point in football is silly. QB1 throws a 30 yard gain to a covered target while scrambling from an unblocked rusher as he is falling out of bounds. QB2 throws a 2 yard well designed screen that the RB takes to the house for 50 yards.
The statistics show that QB2 made the better play. Please. You need to watch the plays and consider the TEAM, the game situation the play happened in and the quality of the opponents defence.
Tau837
Footballguy
PFF grades and some metrics (e.g., big time throws and turnover worthy plays) account for exactly what you reference here. I also posted quite a cross section of statistics that enables comparison in many different areas of QB play.
Of course I agree their actual play on the field, accounting for all relevant context, is more important than statistics. But IMO in this case the statistics are properly representative of how they have played.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Is this a comment in support of Lamar?
Cause his air yards per throw are higher than Allen's.
The_Man
Footballguy
Following the Texans game, Lamar now has a 128.7 passer rating over his last 14 games
It is the highest passer rating ever recorded in NFL history for any 14-game span in a single season (Manning second with a 123.9 in 2004)
His season-long rating is 121.6, second best of all time after Rodgers’ 122.5 in 2011. Wouldn’t surprise me if Lamar gets the record with a big game vs Cleveland
Rodgers holds the alltime career mark at 102.7. Lamar is #2 alltime, decimals ahead of Mahomes at 102.1
It is the highest passer rating ever recorded in NFL history for any 14-game span in a single season (Manning second with a 123.9 in 2004)
His season-long rating is 121.6, second best of all time after Rodgers’ 122.5 in 2011. Wouldn’t surprise me if Lamar gets the record with a big game vs Cleveland
Rodgers holds the alltime career mark at 102.7. Lamar is #2 alltime, decimals ahead of Mahomes at 102.1
The_Man
Footballguy
Sorry to double post but I just realized that in the same week Lamar Jackson became the NFL’s #1 rushing QB of all time, he rose to #2 on the all-time passer rating list. That’s absurd
I want him to win a title so bad, not only because I’m a Ravens fan, but also because doing so will enable more people to appreciate that we’re now watching one of the greatest players of all time in his prime
Make no mistake, he needs a title to secure his legacy, just like Ovechkin finally winning the Cup made it ok for everyone to cheer for him to break Gretzky’s alltime goal record
I want him to win a title so bad, not only because I’m a Ravens fan, but also because doing so will enable more people to appreciate that we’re now watching one of the greatest players of all time in his prime
Make no mistake, he needs a title to secure his legacy, just like Ovechkin finally winning the Cup made it ok for everyone to cheer for him to break Gretzky’s alltime goal record
And you still here people who think he's just a running QB.
The_Man
Footballguy
Lamar Jackson is the first player in NFL history to lead the league in yards per carry AND yards per pass attempt.
That is such an insane stat - honestly it seems like that should make MVP a slam dunk but the narrative seems to have it locked up for Allen (whose name I don't see on either list below btw)
YPC Leaders
1. Lamar 6.6
2. Jayden Daniels 6.0
3. Derrick Henry 5.9
4. Barkley 5.8
5. Gibbs 5.6
YPA Leaders
1. Lamar 8.8
2. Goff 8.6
3. Purdy 8.5
4. Hurts and Love 8.0
That is such an insane stat - honestly it seems like that should make MVP a slam dunk but the narrative seems to have it locked up for Allen (whose name I don't see on either list below btw)
YPC Leaders
1. Lamar 6.6
2. Jayden Daniels 6.0
3. Derrick Henry 5.9
4. Barkley 5.8
5. Gibbs 5.6
YPA Leaders
1. Lamar 8.8
2. Goff 8.6
3. Purdy 8.5
4. Hurts and Love 8.0
Gjallarhorn
Footballguy
If it is any consolation to Lamar, he is my fantasy MVP. Can't argue with Allen's season, and when you factor in MVP voting fatigue, he has it all but locked up.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Even more amazing: Heard a stat today- Every single INT that Lamar threw hit a WR in the hands first.
Almost true. 2 were clear drops one by Bateman one by Andrews. 3rd pick the Steelers LB made a phenomenal play to rip the ball away from Justice Hill after a perfect throw from Lamar put it in Hill’s arms. The final pick never touched a Raven but seemed clear on replay that Bateman stopped his route and Lamar threw it to where he should have been. Of course he also had picks dropped this year by the defense- I can remember specifically late in the home Bengals game and a deep throw against the Giants that hit DBs in the arms but were dropped.
fatness
Footballguy
I wonder how long it will be before someone does that again.
Chaka
Footballguy
Lamar, next year.
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