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QB Philip Rivers, IND (6 Viewers)

Hot Sauce Guy said:
Tau837 said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Ray_T said:
He likely takes less because he gets rid of the ball quickly.
Click to expand...
5 years ago, this was true.

Very much TBD in the YooL 2025.
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This is an odd comment to me. Obviously he has to prove everything again if he plays. But, we know his strength as a QB was processing rapidly, understanding and reading defenses, getting the ball out quickly, and throwing with anticipation. I don't see any reason to believe any of that would be diminished. I would also assume that the coaching staff would build in easy throws and quick/hot reads for him. He hasn't forgotten how to use them.

I suppose you could say he might need to adjust again to game speed... is that it? Short of that, I don't see it.
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How is it at all odd?

He has not taken a snap in live action in 5 years. He hasn’t read a defense, made a checkdown, or processed at game speed in 5 years.

5 years.

5.

Like, 1-2-3-4-FIVE.

The odd comment here is denying that this might actually be a problem. We have literally no idea how quickly Rivers will get the ball out.

And it is a fact that as we age our twitch reflexes are affected. Ask any video game player over 40 about this.

We know literally nothing about how well this 2025 version of Rivers will play. IMO
it’s laughable to even suggest he’s going to just jump back into the game like it was yesterday and won’t miss a beat. Cmon.
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I posted exactly why it is odd to me. There is no need for me to repeat what I already said in the post you quoted. You can disagree, and that's fine.

I did not say he is going to "just jump back into the game like it was yesterday and won't miss a beat." Nice strawman, though.

I appreciate that you can count to 5, though. 👍
 
Tau837 said:
Manster said:
What does he do for Pittmans value? He’s excited about Rivers.
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Of course Pittman is excited. These are the QBs he has played with in the NFL:
  1. Rivers
  2. Wentz
  3. Ryan
  4. Ehlinger
  5. Foles
  6. Minshew
  7. Richardson
  8. Flacco
  9. Jones
  10. Leonard
Rivers is clearly the best of the lot.
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The last game Rivers played, Pittman caught 8 balls for 90 yards at Buffalo in January of 2021.
 
I think you guys are arguing two different things. One is arguing the speed with which one recognizes a pattern or a movement and the other is arguing that the time to send the body a signal to move and the body's movements are slower than once was.

I don't think either of you are wrong if that is the claim.

I don't think pattern recognition slows at an advanced age probably because we fill in deterioration of anything physical with experience with these patterns. I think that it is almost certain that it takes longer for the signal to get to the body and then definitely the body to move appropriately, if it can move appropriately at all.

I also wonder if (and Hot Sauce might be making this stronger claim) Rivers might not need some time to see the patterns again from that particular vantage point in order to adjust and react from dormancy. Players are bigger, stronger, faster than they were five years ago, so he needs to be able to recognize a threat even more quickly to send the deteriorating signal to his deteriorating body to move.

It's going to be really tough and I would absolutely not have him play Macdonald's defense with looks he probably has never seen. People will chalk his lack of success up to age; it might be a lack of experience with new defensive looks at that age.
 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Tau837 said:
I did not say he is going to "just jump back into the game like it was yesterday and won't miss a beat." Nice strawman, though.
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Never said you did. I was commenting on the narrative, not putting words in your mouth.

Settle down now.
Click to expand...

I will thank you going forward not to quote my post to respond to "the narrative" unless it is a narrative I posted about. If you quote my post, I will ask you to make your reply relevant to my post. Thanks.

And I am perfectly settled. Are you?
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
TheWinz said:
Daniel Jones has been sacked 22 times this season, behind a very solid O-line. His sack percentage went down from 8.49% to 5.42% from the Giants to the Colts. In Rivers' lone season with the Colts, his sack percentage went down from 5.54% to 3.38% from the Chargers to the Colts. People are saying he will get killed because he can't move. I disagree. He's a smart QB who was always a statue. Look at Marino. He was one of the slowest QB's ever, but he led the NFL in lowest sack percentage 10 times. Randall Cunningham was one of the most mobile, and led the NFL in sacks 5 times in a 7 year stretch.

The timing kinda sucks though, because if Rivers starts this week, he faces SEA, who are near the top in sacks and QB pressures. But then the Colts face SF and JAC. SF is dead last in both sacks and QB pressures. JAC is bottom 10ish as well. Having a solid line and a smart QB is what allows old statues like Marino, Rodgers, Rivers, etc. to stay past their prime. It's part of the reason why Flacco at 40 was sacked at a much lower rate than Gabriel or Sanders, who combined are only 8 years older. Or why Flacco is the least sacked CIN QB, even though he's more than 10 years older than the others who've taken the field. For me, the biggest question is, how's his arm?
Click to expand...

Daniel Jones is also surprisingly mobile. Philip Rivers is decidedly not mobile.
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He has (had?) one of the quickest releases in the league. Around 2.5 sec.
 
Joe Bryant said:
After Thursday night and Ebuka and Bucky Irving, I have a 37% chance to win my first round playoff game in my superflex home league.

Have Tyler Warren as my TE.

Tempted to start Rivers over Mariota and Rodgers just for fun.
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Go for it. My first playoff win came in 1993 with Elway throwing 3 TDs to Shannon Sharpe all in the 2nd quarter. I also rode Rivers and Gates for years. Rivers now has more motivation, "Grandbaby needs new shoes."
 
Joe Bryant said:
After Thursday night and Ebuka and Bucky Irving, I have a 37% chance to win my first round playoff game in my superflex home league.

Have Tyler Warren as my TE.

Tempted to start Rivers over Mariota and Rodgers just for fun.
Click to expand...
Giants D seems like a juicer matchup than playing at Seattle.

That said, it’s supposed to rain in both cities, so who knows what’s gonna happen.

Personally I’d roll with MM for the ceiling game. Maybe if you only had a 1% chance, but 30% chance to win? Rivers seems less fun and more reckless.

And THAT all said, if you started Rivers and hit a home run you’d have bragging rights for days. Probably even sell a few MVP subscriptions out of it.
 
I hope the Colts offensive line, TE's, and RB's are good blockers. They'll need to be against Seattle's defense which is very good. I'm rooting for Rivers to do well but I can just as easily see him doing well or going in at halftime and saying "coach, this was a mistake".
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Tau837 said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Ray_T said:
He likely takes less because he gets rid of the ball quickly.
Click to expand...
5 years ago, this was true.

Very much TBD in the YooL 2025.
Click to expand...

This is an odd comment to me. Obviously he has to prove everything again if he plays. But, we know his strength as a QB was processing rapidly, understanding and reading defenses, getting the ball out quickly, and throwing with anticipation. I don't see any reason to believe any of that would be diminished. I would also assume that the coaching staff would build in easy throws and quick/hot reads for him. He hasn't forgotten how to use them.

I suppose you could say he might need to adjust again to game speed... is that it? Short of that, I don't see it.
Click to expand...
How is it at all odd?

He has not taken a snap in live action in 5 years. He hasn’t read a defense, made a checkdown, or processed at game speed in 5 years.

5 years.

5.

Like, 1-2-3-4-FIVE.

The odd comment here is denying that this might actually be a problem. We have literally no idea how quickly Rivers will get the ball out.

And it is a fact that as we age our twitch reflexes are affected. Ask any video game player over 40 about this.

We know literally nothing about how well this 2025 version of Rivers will play. IMO
it’s laughable to even suggest he’s going to just jump back into the game like it was yesterday and won’t miss a beat. Cmon.
Click to expand...
No I think it is fair to question it.

part of throwing with anticipation is having that sharpness to your game that only practice and game time brings.

but I would also argue these are traits you either have or you dont. while some of this can be developed with good preparation and a good game plan, there are guys who just do not have the ability to do these things.

we know Rivers has it. we just dont know how sharp he will be.

but if you told me hed get 240 total pass yards it would not surprise me. I suspect the TD (if there are any) will be on the ground.

Rivers may have a good grasp of the base offense as he played in this offense his last year or so in the NFL, but the red zone offense likely will be different to some degree. That is something that may not come right away.
 
Via Adam Schefter:

“Colts are activating Philip Rivers to their active roster from their practice squad, paving the way for him to make his first NFL start in five years Sunday at Seattle.”

Via Rapsheet

“The Colts will start QB Philip Rivers on Sunday against the Seahawks, sources tell The Insiders.Age 44, out of retirement, after a full week of practice, Rivers is a go.”



*I am honestly more excited for this than I am any if my playoff matchups.
 
If Rivers were to get this team into the playoffs,
He should win comeback player of the year award!

But doubt Rivers makes it through the 1st quarter. Ain't no way he can take a hit after being away from game. And at his age,nope.
He's also going to be winded by the 4th quarter.
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Joe Bryant said:
After Thursday night and Ebuka and Bucky Irving, I have a 37% chance to win my first round playoff game in my superflex home league.

Have Tyler Warren as my TE.

Tempted to start Rivers over Mariota and Rodgers just for fun.
Click to expand...
Giants D seems like a juicer matchup than playing at Seattle.

That said, it’s supposed to rain in both cities, so who knows what’s gonna happen.

Personally I’d roll with MM for the ceiling game. Maybe if you only had a 1% chance, but 30% chance to win? Rivers seems less fun and more reckless.

And THAT all said, if you started Rivers and hit a home run you’d have bragging rights for days. Probably even sell a few MVP subscriptions out of it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I need to think on it.

There's also a fun element to it for me as one of my best friends works closely with Rivers on some things. So I've always pulled for him.
 
I remember in 2021 the Saints had a Covid disaster on the weekend before their MNF game vs an ok Dolphins squad in the Dome. Saints would’ve been favored & may likely have won with either of Hill or Siemian. Both just got exposed to Covid, didn’t have it, just exposed. That was enough, both wiped off tge active list in a blink.

All that was left was Ian Book. The Saints signed Blake Bortles who was donezo at that point. He hadn’t started a game in 3 years. I really thought they should just let the vet sling it, but no, Book started, threw an early pick 6 & that was all she wrote. Predictable result. Saints missed the playoffs by the result of that single game. I get it, try something. I’m just surprised there were no other options besides Rivers.

I looked up Rivers’ air yards per attempt in his last game & it was 1.7, & the lowest current AY/Att I can find this year is Gabriel at 2.4.
 
Joe Bryant said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It says to me this is a skrewed up situation.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on what you think is "screwed up"? Ehlinger said he preferred to say in Denver instead of compete in Indianapolis. That to me says as much about him as it does the Colts.

Do you think there's something wrong with Steichen?
Click to expand...

Hi Joe, why yes I’m glad to elaborate. And I saw his statement & frankly it’s obvious - Ehlinger could be starting presumably for a team on a playoff run, with 4 games remaining. I saw him in the Dome vs the Saints in PS this year, he looked good. They’re loaded with weapons at Wr/TE/RB & a good defense, & he knows the offensive system. But he’d rather be on the PS with Payton. Obviously they might go to the Super Bowl so *maybe he doesn’t want to miss that, which I get, but opportunities like this don’t come along often. So in my honest speculative opinion Ehlinger sees something he doesn’t like about planning, strategy, locker room, his role (were they going to have him backup Rivers anyway?), something.
 
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Footballdaz said:
Drake Hater said:
It's got to be wild for the kids that play for him. Your HC gets called up to start a game in the NFL??? The movie is writing itself at this point.
Click to expand...

If Colts play Patriots in AFC Champion game,I'm rooting for Rivers to beat my Patriots that I've loved my entire 59 years on this planet.
Click to expand...
That would be a particularly galling outcome for this Chargers fan. Rivers finally beats the Pats in the playoffs at 44 years old, while playing for the Colts.
 
Joe Bryant said:
Career numbers. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm

Clearly, he retired for a reason. But it's not like his numbers dramatically declined.

Finished 2020 season 11-5 with 4,169 yards, 24 TD, 11 INT, 68% completion percentage and 97 passer rating.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I’ll exit shortly as I’ve commented too much, but I thought I’d just add that Drew Brees, whose last season was 9-3 & 2942/70.5%/24/6/106.4 QBR (age 41), said he couldn’t even throw a football with his right arm after he stopped training.
 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Joe Bryant said:
Career numbers. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm

Clearly, he retired for a reason. But it's not like his numbers dramatically declined.

Finished 2020 season 11-5 with 4,169 yards, 24 TD, 11 INT, 68% completion percentage and 97 passer rating.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I’ll exit shortly as I’ve commented too much, but I thought I’d just add that Drew Brees, whose last season was 9-3 & 2942/70.5%/24/6/106.4 QBR (age 41), said he couldn’t even throw a football with his right arm after he stopped training.
Click to expand...

Not commenting too much at all. This is a good discussion. I was just surprised to see a point made supported by a single game.

And for sure, the odds are massively stacked against him. There's a reason this is an interesting story - it's highly abnormal.
 
Joe Bryant said:
So I've always pulled for him.
Click to expand...
I’ve always liked Rivers - he’s a funny dude, and a total gamer. That said, I have a gut feeling that this is going to be a disaster. Seahawks at home in the rain is not a defense I’d want to start any QB against, much less a dude who hasn’t taken a snap in 5 years.

Perhaps we’ll be surprised.
 
Joe Bryant said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Joe Bryant said:
Career numbers. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm

Clearly, he retired for a reason. But it's not like his numbers dramatically declined.

Finished 2020 season 11-5 with 4,169 yards, 24 TD, 11 INT, 68% completion percentage and 97 passer rating.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I’ll exit shortly as I’ve commented too much, but I thought I’d just add that Drew Brees, whose last season was 9-3 & 2942/70.5%/24/6/106.4 QBR (age 41), said he couldn’t even throw a football with his right arm after he stopped training.
Click to expand...

Not commenting too much at all. This is a good discussion. I was just surprised to see a point made supported by a single game.

And for sure, the odds are massively stacked against him. There's a reason this is an interesting story - it's highly abnormal.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I know, I’m fascinated!
 
Gr00vus said:
Footballdaz said:
Drake Hater said:
It's got to be wild for the kids that play for him. Your HC gets called up to start a game in the NFL??? The movie is writing itself at this point.
Click to expand...

If Colts play Patriots in AFC Champion game,I'm rooting for Rivers to beat my Patriots that I've loved my entire 59 years on this planet.
Click to expand...
That would be a particularly galling outcome for this Chargers fan. Rivers finally beats the Pats in the playoffs at 44 years old, while playing for the Colts.
Click to expand...

Not this Chargers fan. I'm rooting for Rivers as much as I'm rooting for the Chargers. If the Chargers cannot win the Super Bowl, I'd like nothing more than for Rivers to lead the Colts to a Super Bowl win. (I realize neither has any real chance of happening.)
 
Tau837 said:
Gr00vus said:
Footballdaz said:
Drake Hater said:
It's got to be wild for the kids that play for him. Your HC gets called up to start a game in the NFL??? The movie is writing itself at this point.
Click to expand...

If Colts play Patriots in AFC Champion game,I'm rooting for Rivers to beat my Patriots that I've loved my entire 59 years on this planet.
Click to expand...
That would be a particularly galling outcome for this Chargers fan. Rivers finally beats the Pats in the playoffs at 44 years old, while playing for the Colts.
Click to expand...

Not this Chargers fan. I'm rooting for Rivers as much as I'm rooting for the Chargers. If the Chargers cannot win the Super Bowl, I'd like nothing more than for Rivers to lead the Colts to a Super Bowl win. (I realize neither has any real chance of happening.)
Click to expand...
We will take the support
 
Lindsey Vonn retired from skiing for five years, got titanium implants in her knee, and turned 41 two months ago. On Friday, she won her first World Cup downhill in 7 years and first since her surgery.

If Lindsey Vonn can do it at 41, Old Man Rivers can return at 44. There's hope for all the 40+ year olds.
 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Joe Bryant said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I looked up Rivers’ air yards per attempt in his last game & it was 1.7, & the lowest current AY/Att I can find this year is Gabriel at 2.4.
Click to expand...

Guy has 244 games over 17 years, and the stat you go for is a single game?
Click to expand...

That’s fair. For the season that year it was 3.6.
Click to expand...

First off, completed air yards per pass attempt of 3.6 sounds low. It ranked tied for #25 that season with Tua and... Justin Herbert, who everyone knows has a great arm. But in 2019 with the Chargers, Rivers' CAY/PA was 4.1, which was #11 that season... ahead of Brees, Allen, Rodgers, Brady, Goff, Mayfield, and Flacco, among others... plenty of guys known to have strong arms.

Beyond that was situation. Average Depth of Target (ADoT) for his targets in 2020:

WR T.Y. Hilton 13.5 ADoT on 97 targets in 16 games
WR Zach Pascal 11.3 ADoT on 76 targets in 17 games
WR Michael Pittman 8.5 ADoT on 66 targets in 14 games
WR Marcus Johnson 17.4 ADoT on 26 targets in 5 games
WR Parris Campbell 11.6 ADoT on 9 targets in 2 games
WR Ashton Dulin 5.8 ADoT on 5 targets in 12 games
WR Daurice Fountain 11.5 ADoT on 2 targets in 5 games
WR DeMichael Harris 1.7 ADoT on 10 targets in 8 games

The WRs weren't very strong downfield -- Hilton turned 31 that season, Pittman was a rookie, Pascal (career ADoT 10.6) is a possession WR, and Campbell only played 43 passing snaps.

TE Trey Burton 7.8 ADoT on 47 targets in 14 games
TE Jack Doyle 7.6 ADoT on 42 targets in 15 gamees
TE Mo Allie-Cox 7.0 ADoT on 40 targets in 16 games

The TEs were not an impressive pass catching group, especially not downfield.

RB Nyheim Hines 0.7 ADoT on 78 targets in 17 games
RB Jonathan Taylor -1.5 ADoT on 42 targets in 16 games
RB Jordan Wilkins -1.1 ADoT on 15 targets in 13 games
RB Marlon Mack 0.0 ADoT on 3 targets in 1 game

About 25% of the targets were to the RBs.

I don't really see anything surprising about his CAY/PA that season. I don't think it proves anything about his arm that season if that was the reason to bring it up.
 
smbkrypt24 said:
Tau837 said:
Gr00vus said:
Footballdaz said:
Drake Hater said:
It's got to be wild for the kids that play for him. Your HC gets called up to start a game in the NFL??? The movie is writing itself at this point.
Click to expand...

If Colts play Patriots in AFC Champion game,I'm rooting for Rivers to beat my Patriots that I've loved my entire 59 years on this planet.
Click to expand...
That would be a particularly galling outcome for this Chargers fan. Rivers finally beats the Pats in the playoffs at 44 years old, while playing for the Colts.
Click to expand...

Not this Chargers fan. I'm rooting for Rivers as much as I'm rooting for the Chargers. If the Chargers cannot win the Super Bowl, I'd like nothing more than for Rivers to lead the Colts to a Super Bowl win. (I realize neither has any real chance of happening.)
Click to expand...
We will take the support
Click to expand...

I rooted for both the Chargers and Colts in 2020. I'll gladly do it again.
 
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