Question about a child not wanting to see her father (divorce) (1 Viewer)

[Zow]

This is a really nuanced question where the answer may vary greatly by state law. You really need to consult with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I imagine some can probably do an hour consult or so for a couple hundred bucks.

I appreciate the advice. I realize you can't give an exact number or probably even a round about number, but any idea as to a price range we could expect to pay? Are we talking hundreds? Thousands? Not even sure if you can give that, to be honest.

As a lawyer who does family law in Arizona, I'd charged about 200 bucks to do an hour or so consult with you to answer these questions. If you wanted to retain me to litigate this issue (basically bring a petition to the judge who likely did the divorce/first custodial order to modify it to give you want you want) I'd probably charge about 3500.

Per two of the other family law lawyers on this board, they'd consider that very "cheap" thought and would probably charge higher or at an hourly rate of 300ish/hr.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

This is a really nuanced question where the answer may vary greatly by state law. You really need to consult with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I imagine some can probably do an hour consult or so for a couple hundred bucks.

I appreciate the advice. I realize you can't give an exact number or probably even a round about number, but any idea as to a price range we could expect to pay? Are we talking hundreds? Thousands? Not even sure if you can give that, to be honest.

To do have a custody/visitation battle the proper way with medical experts and possibly psychological ones given his current state you are looking at anywhere from 40-100 grand if he fights you. In New Jersey. Your state may vary.

To consult with an attorney should be free - $500 tops. To file a motion to change visitation based on his condition but not quite get to a full blown custody case you are probably looking at 5-7 grand if he fights it. You may find an attorney to do it for flat rate but I wouldn't. Again, your state may vary.

 

[Zow]

Pennsylvania, right?

This is the guy to listen to.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

This is a really nuanced question where the answer may vary greatly by state law. You really need to consult with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I imagine some can probably do an hour consult or so for a couple hundred bucks.

I appreciate the advice. I realize you can't give an exact number or probably even a round about number, but any idea as to a price range we could expect to pay? Are we talking hundreds? Thousands? Not even sure if you can give that, to be honest.

As a lawyer who does family law in Arizona, I'd charged about 200 bucks to do an hour or so consult with you to answer these questions. If you wanted to retain me to litigate this issue (basically bring a petition to the judge who likely did the divorce/first custodial order to modify it to give you want you want) I'd probably charge about 3500.

Per two of the other family law lawyers on this board, they'd consider that very "cheap" thought and would probably charge higher or at an hourly rate of 300ish/hr.

The only way I'm stepping foot in a family court for 3500 flat is if the husband and wife agreed on everything before they came to see me and I was just filing the paperwork to get them divorced and did the one hearing. More often than not we seeing plenary hearings on these issues and a flat fee just doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[T Bell]

It's not just attorney time. The court might order that the child be interviewed/evaluated by a neutral child psychologist to make a determination, which will also cost some money.

An attorney should be able to give you a budget up front for this, Sheik. I'd go ahead and make the call as it sounds like you're taking this seriously and want to move on it.

 

[TheIronSheik]

This is a really nuanced question where the answer may vary greatly by state law. You really need to consult with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I imagine some can probably do an hour consult or so for a couple hundred bucks.

I appreciate the advice. I realize you can't give an exact number or probably even a round about number, but any idea as to a price range we could expect to pay? Are we talking hundreds? Thousands? Not even sure if you can give that, to be honest.

To do have a custody/visitation battle the proper way with medical experts and possibly psychological ones given his current state you are looking at anywhere from 40-100 grand if he fights you. In New Jersey. Your state may vary.

To consult with an attorney should be free - $500 tops. To file a motion to change visitation based on his condition but not quite get to a full blown custody case you are probably looking at 5-7 grand if he fights it. You may find an attorney to do it for flat rate but I wouldn't. Again, your state may vary.

 

[McGarnicle]

What a sad story. TPW to the little girl. Sounds somewhat like my relationship with my dad. Good for you for being a father figure in her life, she needs it.

 

[TheIronSheik]

This is a really nuanced question where the answer may vary greatly by state law. You really need to consult with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I imagine some can probably do an hour consult or so for a couple hundred bucks.

I appreciate the advice. I realize you can't give an exact number or probably even a round about number, but any idea as to a price range we could expect to pay? Are we talking hundreds? Thousands? Not even sure if you can give that, to be honest.

To do have a custody/visitation battle the proper way with medical experts and possibly psychological ones given his current state you are looking at anywhere from 40-100 grand if he fights you. In New Jersey. Your state may vary.

To consult with an attorney should be free - $500 tops. To file a motion to change visitation based on his condition but not quite get to a full blown custody case you are probably looking at 5-7 grand if he fights it. You may find an attorney to do it for flat rate but I wouldn't. Again, your state may vary.

Maybe I'll just buy her a Porsche for her 16th birthday as a way of saying sorry for sending her each Sunday and save a couple thousand.

 

[T Bell]

This is a really nuanced question where the answer may vary greatly by state law. You really need to consult with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I imagine some can probably do an hour consult or so for a couple hundred bucks.

I appreciate the advice. I realize you can't give an exact number or probably even a round about number, but any idea as to a price range we could expect to pay? Are we talking hundreds? Thousands? Not even sure if you can give that, to be honest.

To do have a custody/visitation battle the proper way with medical experts and possibly psychological ones given his current state you are looking at anywhere from 40-100 grand if he fights you. In New Jersey. Your state may vary.

To consult with an attorney should be free - $500 tops. To file a motion to change visitation based on his condition but not quite get to a full blown custody case you are probably looking at 5-7 grand if he fights it. You may find an attorney to do it for flat rate but I wouldn't. Again, your state may vary.

Maybe I'll just buy her a Porsche for her 16th birthday as a way of saying sorry for sending her each Sunday and save a couple thousand.

While you're in the spending mood, buy dad some alcohol to make sure he's drunk when your investigator shows up.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

This is a really nuanced question where the answer may vary greatly by state law. You really need to consult with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I imagine some can probably do an hour consult or so for a couple hundred bucks.

I appreciate the advice. I realize you can't give an exact number or probably even a round about number, but any idea as to a price range we could expect to pay? Are we talking hundreds? Thousands? Not even sure if you can give that, to be honest.

To do have a custody/visitation battle the proper way with medical experts and possibly psychological ones given his current state you are looking at anywhere from 40-100 grand if he fights you. In New Jersey. Your state may vary.

To consult with an attorney should be free - $500 tops. To file a motion to change visitation based on his condition but not quite get to a full blown custody case you are probably looking at 5-7 grand if he fights it. You may find an attorney to do it for flat rate but I wouldn't. Again, your state may vary.

I always try to scare people first so that they measure their expectations and understand that I am not an attorney who works for free.

Again, all in NJ for now....

A full blown custody fight takes a lot of time. Usually there is a reason beyond I want full custody so that means there is a physical or mental medical aspect. The usual suspects of experts around here in those fields will cost you $10,000. The court will order a plenary hearing most likely if there is even a shred of merit to the arguments made on the motion. A plenary hearing is a mini trial and can take anywhere from 1-10 days on custody visitation. That is a $25000 trial retainer and you probably spend another $20 if the hearing goes more than 3 days. Add to that the original fees you paid to start the motion and the discovery that goes along with a plenary hearing and the costs of deposing the other sides expert if they get their own and my numbers are on the money, pun intended.

Sometimes you agree to a joint expert. So the cost is lower. Unless you don't like the joint expert's report in which case you need to pay for half of that expert and then 100% of your own expert.

Most people don't have that kind of money to fight over custody and visitation so they end up filing motions without experts accusing each other of the worst things possible. The court will order sometimes a Custody Neutral Assessment which costs about $1,500.00. You share the cost. The CNA expert appointed by the court is almost always going to split the baby unless one side is just awful. And again if you don't like the CNA report you better get your own expert.

Most people don't have that kind of money either so they do it without experts. The results end up all over the map and still costs close to 10 grand most likely in attorney fees alone. And a custody visitation argument opens up a lot more arguments in the settlement agreement - child support will change for example. Does that change anything else? It is just never simple.

I don't practice in PA, but I've read a lot of the grandparents rights stuff out there because it comes up a lot. They have what you could call a two tiered system. Grandparents can "sue" for joint custody in which case they basically act as the other parent. Or they can get visitation rights which means they get to see the kid but almost always under the direction of the parent of residence. I haven't seen anything about getting that same grandparent to also pay child support in the visitation arena, but I could see it in the shared custody one.

I would talk with a PA attorney and get an idea of what you are looking at.

 

[Godsbrother]

The worst part is that he's supposed to pay $600 a month in child support but he doesn't pay because he can't keep a job. Meanwhile, his mom is extremely wealthy, yet she refuses to pay the money because it's "not her responsibility." This ##### wants to be a grandmother, but doesn't think she should have to pay any money to her granddaughter.

She has every right to want to be a grandmother, but I don't see where she should feel compelled to take on these payments. Dad sounds like a major ###, though.

Yeah I am not seeing why she should be paying the $600/month child support to see her grandaughter.

I agree that she has no obligation to pay the $600. But she also has no rights to see her granddaughter. The only reason she has any ability to see her now is that her loser son is living with her. If TIS could get his butt thrown in jail for not paying child support, they would have every right to cut grandma off completely.

Exactly! I'm not trying to punish her in to paying her son's child support. What I'm saying is that she knows full well that the only reason she is seeing her granddaughter is because she's, essentially, working the system.

Sheik,

I know you are good guy and the old bag sounds like a cheap b**** but the bolded sounds pretty bad to me. I know that grandparents don't have much (if any) legal rights but damn, she is the kid's grandmother. She shouldn't have to work any system or pay support to see her granddaughter.

 

[T Bell]

The worst part is that he's supposed to pay $600 a month in child support but he doesn't pay because he can't keep a job. Meanwhile, his mom is extremely wealthy, yet she refuses to pay the money because it's "not her responsibility." This ##### wants to be a grandmother, but doesn't think she should have to pay any money to her granddaughter.

She has every right to want to be a grandmother, but I don't see where she should feel compelled to take on these payments. Dad sounds like a major ###, though.

Yeah I am not seeing why she should be paying the $600/month child support to see her grandaughter.

I agree that she has no obligation to pay the $600. But she also has no rights to see her granddaughter. The only reason she has any ability to see her now is that her loser son is living with her. If TIS could get his butt thrown in jail for not paying child support, they would have every right to cut grandma off completely.

Exactly! I'm not trying to punish her in to paying her son's child support. What I'm saying is that she knows full well that the only reason she is seeing her granddaughter is because she's, essentially, working the system.

Sheik,

I know you are good guy and the old bag sounds like a cheap b**** but the bolded sounds pretty bad to me. I know that grandparents don't have much (if any) legal rights but damn, she is the kid's grandmother. She shouldn't have to work any system or pay support to see her granddaughter.

She wouldn't have anything to worry about if she wasn't enabling her drunk son to continue to be a complete mess of a person and a father.

 

[Henry Ford]

The worst part is that he's supposed to pay $600 a month in child support but he doesn't pay because he can't keep a job. Meanwhile, his mom is extremely wealthy, yet she refuses to pay the money because it's "not her responsibility." This ##### wants to be a grandmother, but doesn't think she should have to pay any money to her granddaughter.

She has every right to want to be a grandmother, but I don't see where she should feel compelled to take on these payments. Dad sounds like a major ###, though.

Yeah I am not seeing why she should be paying the $600/month child support to see her grandaughter.

I agree that she has no obligation to pay the $600. But she also has no rights to see her granddaughter. The only reason she has any ability to see her now is that her loser son is living with her. If TIS could get his butt thrown in jail for not paying child support, they would have every right to cut grandma off completely.

Exactly! I'm not trying to punish her in to paying her son's child support. What I'm saying is that she knows full well that the only reason she is seeing her granddaughter is because she's, essentially, working the system.

Sheik,

I know you are good guy and the old bag sounds like a cheap b**** but the bolded sounds pretty bad to me. I know that grandparents don't have much (if any) legal rights but damn, she is the kid's grandmother. She shouldn't have to work any system or pay support to see her granddaughter.

I think grandma has already proven how good she is at raising kids.

 

[The Commish]

I don't really get the defense of "grandma" here. It's not like she's proven that she knows what she's doing as a figure head. I don't care if you're blood to me or not. If you're a questionable influence (at best) you aren't seeing my kid. My job is to protect my children and do what's best for them.

 

[Niles Standish]

Just on the money thing. Grandparents aren't supposed to support kids. Do you expect your parents to pay $600 a month to see your stepdaughter?

 

[Godsbrother]

I don't really get the defense of "grandma" here. It's not like she's proven that she knows what she's doing as a figure head. I don't care if you're blood to me or not. If you're a questionable influence (at best) you aren't seeing my kid. My job is to protect my children and do what's best for them.

I am not defending her. Obviously she shouldn't see the kid if she is a danger to her.

 

[El Floppo]

The worst part is that he's supposed to pay $600 a month in child support but he doesn't pay because he can't keep a job. Meanwhile, his mom is extremely wealthy, yet she refuses to pay the money because it's "not her responsibility." This ##### wants to be a grandmother, but doesn't think she should have to pay any money to her granddaughter.

She has every right to want to be a grandmother, but I don't see where she should feel compelled to take on these payments. Dad sounds like a major ###, though.

Yeah I am not seeing why she should be paying the $600/month child support to see her grandaughter.

I agree that she has no obligation to pay the $600. But she also has no rights to see her granddaughter. The only reason she has any ability to see her now is that her loser son is living with her. If TIS could get his butt thrown in jail for not paying child support, they would have every right to cut grandma off completely.

Exactly! I'm not trying to punish her in to paying her son's child support. What I'm saying is that she knows full well that the only reason she is seeing her granddaughter is because she's, essentially, working the system.

Our goal isn't to keep her from seeing her granddaughter. What I was saying was that she is very well off. VERY well off. And to think that she contributes nothing to her granddaughter is mindblowing to us. Sure, she's not required to. But I can tell you that my parents, who are not her actual grandparents, spend huge amounts of money on her. My parents are quite well off, too. And they are not required to pay for anything. But they spend money on her to make sure she has everything possible. I can't imagine a grandparent not doing this. Not WANTING to do this. Especially if they have the means.

Not trying to excuse her behavior, but an explanation for it might be something along the lines of... she blames your GF for ruining the relationship and making her son a drunk.

Don't know why she'd "punish" the granddaughter in all of this by not helping out with this or that since she has the means (extra-curricular activities are always a good grandparent thing- gives them a feeling of being a part of the kid's life in a tangible way), but that's up to her.

Other than providing a way of imagining why she's not helping- I got nothing... but good vibes for you and yours in this situation. Seems like the best option is to extricate the kid from drunk dad until he can clean himself up, but wtf do I know.

 

[Godsbrother]

The worst part is that he's supposed to pay $600 a month in child support but he doesn't pay because he can't keep a job. Meanwhile, his mom is extremely wealthy, yet she refuses to pay the money because it's "not her responsibility." This ##### wants to be a grandmother, but doesn't think she should have to pay any money to her granddaughter.

She has every right to want to be a grandmother, but I don't see where she should feel compelled to take on these payments. Dad sounds like a major ###, though.

Yeah I am not seeing why she should be paying the $600/month child support to see her grandaughter.

I agree that she has no obligation to pay the $600. But she also has no rights to see her granddaughter. The only reason she has any ability to see her now is that her loser son is living with her. If TIS could get his butt thrown in jail for not paying child support, they would have every right to cut grandma off completely.

Exactly! I'm not trying to punish her in to paying her son's child support. What I'm saying is that she knows full well that the only reason she is seeing her granddaughter is because she's, essentially, working the system.

Our goal isn't to keep her from seeing her granddaughter. What I was saying was that she is very well off. VERY well off. And to think that she contributes nothing to her granddaughter is mindblowing to us. Sure, she's not required to. But I can tell you that my parents, who are not her actual grandparents, spend huge amounts of money on her. My parents are quite well off, too. And they are not required to pay for anything. But they spend money on her to make sure she has everything possible. I can't imagine a grandparent not doing this. Not WANTING to do this. Especially if they have the means.

Not trying to excuse her behavior, but an explanation for it might be something along the lines of... she blames your GF for ruining the relationship and making her son a drunk.

Don't know why she'd "punish" the granddaughter in all of this by not helping out with this or that since she has the means (extra-curricular activities are always a good grandparent thing- gives them a feeling of being a part of the kid's life in a tangible way), but that's up to her.

Other than providing a way of imagining why she's not helping- I got nothing... but good vibes for you and yours in this situation. Seems like the best option is to extricate the kid from drunk dad until he can clean himself up, but wtf do I know.

This is a good possibility. A lot of mother-in-laws can't stand their son-in-law so it isn't s big stretch to think that she isn't enamored with her son's ex and live in boyfriend. She is probably pissed at the whole situation which doesn't excuse her taking it out in the kid but aside from not paying support we haven't heard that she is being mean or unloving to the little girl.

It sounded like the main reason the daughter doesn't want to go is because it interferes with her seeing friends on the weekend. I can understand that and don't blame her but I doubt that is going to work in getting visitation terminated or reduced. They're probably be better off going with the drunk father angle.

 

[inca911]

First, please excuse that I am oversimplifying this greatly. Start with your heart, and the core question of "what do you really want for her"? Once you have a very short list, outline a specific set of actions and backup/contingency plans that go towards those goals. Then define the items that you are willing to give up (or personally tolerate/endure) to make that happen. You can change things in the divorce decree if everyone agrees, or if no one disagrees (keep documented agreement, though). As an example:

1. Want girlfriend's daughter to have positive relationship and interactions with her father.

• Define the set of conditions required for this to happen, and propose actions based on when the situation is not conducive to a positive relationship. For example, agree that in the best interests of the daughter, you will assess his condition when you drop her off (i.e., no more grandma pickups) and she will not stay if he is drunk. Also agree that she will be picked up if Dad becomes drunk, and visitation will be done for that week.
• Are you willing to drop the issue of collecting child support if this is agreed upon by Dad? If so, that's your bargaining chip to get his consent. If he's as selfish as he is portrayed, this shouldn't be hard. As long as the daughter is taken care by your family, the benefit of the unpaid child support may not be worth the constant battle. You aren't getting it now, so you aren't really giving up anything.

2. Want positive relationship with grandma

• Establish grandma activities and times where they can interact without drunk Dad (i.e., outside of house where Dad lives). Remove her from the equation by giving her the time with her granddaughter. Invite her over at some frequency (e.g., dinner/outing every two weeks). If you really want this for the daughter, you might have to put up with a bit of crap for her benefit.

Just holding up a mirror a bit, but there are lots of sour grapes raised in the posts that have nothing to do with the best interests of the daughter. Get out of the trap of telling stories about grandma's money and child support you aren't getting. You want her to be able to form good relationships when she is older, and not have Daddy issue baggage for years to come. If she were to see him when he isn't drunk, that may be a good starting point. If what you really want is different (e.g., Dad out of her life completely), then clearly the actions can be radically different. Best of luck!

 

[DiStefano]

Your girlfriend's child is not your daughter

She is my daughter. Not legally. And I've never claimed her as my legal daughter. But to me, she is my daughter. And to her, I am her dad.

Then it's time you made an honest woman of her mother. You can't have it both ways.

 

[The Commish]

The worst part is that he's supposed to pay $600 a month in child support but he doesn't pay because he can't keep a job. Meanwhile, his mom is extremely wealthy, yet she refuses to pay the money because it's "not her responsibility." This ##### wants to be a grandmother, but doesn't think she should have to pay any money to her granddaughter.

She has every right to want to be a grandmother, but I don't see where she should feel compelled to take on these payments. Dad sounds like a major ###, though.

Yeah I am not seeing why she should be paying the $600/month child support to see her grandaughter.

I agree that she has no obligation to pay the $600. But she also has no rights to see her granddaughter. The only reason she has any ability to see her now is that her loser son is living with her. If TIS could get his butt thrown in jail for not paying child support, they would have every right to cut grandma off completely.

Exactly! I'm not trying to punish her in to paying her son's child support. What I'm saying is that she knows full well that the only reason she is seeing her granddaughter is because she's, essentially, working the system.

Our goal isn't to keep her from seeing her granddaughter. What I was saying was that she is very well off. VERY well off. And to think that she contributes nothing to her granddaughter is mindblowing to us. Sure, she's not required to. But I can tell you that my parents, who are not her actual grandparents, spend huge amounts of money on her. My parents are quite well off, too. And they are not required to pay for anything. But they spend money on her to make sure she has everything possible. I can't imagine a grandparent not doing this. Not WANTING to do this. Especially if they have the means.

Not trying to excuse her behavior, but an explanation for it might be something along the lines of... she blames your GF for ruining the relationship and making her son a drunk.

Don't know why she'd "punish" the granddaughter in all of this by not helping out with this or that since she has the means (extra-curricular activities are always a good grandparent thing- gives them a feeling of being a part of the kid's life in a tangible way), but that's up to her.

Other than providing a way of imagining why she's not helping- I got nothing... but good vibes for you and yours in this situation. Seems like the best option is to extricate the kid from drunk dad until he can clean himself up, but wtf do I know.

This is a good possibility. A lot of mother-in-laws can't stand their son-in-law so it isn't s big stretch to think that she isn't enamored with her son's ex and live in boyfriend. She is probably pissed at the whole situation which doesn't excuse her taking it out in the kid but aside from not paying support we haven't heard that she is being mean or unloving to the little girl.

It sounded like the main reason the daughter doesn't want to go is because it interferes with her seeing friends on the weekend. I can understand that and don't blame her but I doubt that is going to work in getting visitation terminated or reduced. They're probably be better off going with the drunk father angle.

To me, it sounds like the main reason is her father is a drunk and she's embarrassed to be around him

 

[El Floppo]

First, please excuse that I am oversimplifying this greatly. Start with your heart, and the core question of "what do you really want for her"? Once you have a very short list, outline a specific set of actions and backup/contingency plans that go towards those goals. Then define the items that you are willing to give up (or personally tolerate/endure) to make that happen. You can change things in the divorce decree if everyone agrees, or if no one disagrees (keep documented agreement, though). As an example:

1. Want girlfriend's daughter to have positive relationship and interactions with her father.

• Define the set of conditions required for this to happen, and propose actions based on when the situation is not conducive to a positive relationship. For example, agree that in the best interests of the daughter, you will assess his condition when you drop her off (i.e., no more grandma pickups) and she will not stay if he is drunk. Also agree that she will be picked up if Dad becomes drunk, and visitation will be done for that week.
• Are you willing to drop the issue of collecting child support if this is agreed upon by Dad? If so, that's your bargaining chip to get his consent. If he's as selfish as he is portrayed, this shouldn't be hard. As long as the daughter is taken care by your family, the benefit of the unpaid child support may not be worth the constant battle. You aren't getting it now, so you aren't really giving up anything.

3. Want positive relationship with grandma

• Establish grandma activities and times where they can interact without drunk Dad (i.e., outside of house where Dad lives). Remove her from the equation by giving her the time with her granddaughter. Invite her over at some frequency (e.g., dinner/outing every two weeks). If you really want this for the daughter, you might have to put up with a bit of crap for her benefit.

Just holding up a mirror a bit, but there are lots of sour grapes raised in the posts that have nothing to do with the best interests of the daughter. Get out of the trap of telling stories about grandma's money and child support you aren't getting. You want her to be able to form good relationships when she is older, and not have Daddy issue baggage for years to come. If she were to see him when he isn't drunk, that may be a good starting point. If what you really want is different (e.g., Dad out of her life completely), then clearly the actions can be radically different. Best of luck!

This can't possibly work- you went straight from 1 to 3.

 

[Spike]

Maybe I missed this but if the father cannot (legally) drive, is there something legal stating the drunk's mother is the one who picks up the little girl to see him? Is there something legal stating you/your girlfriend have to bring the little girl to see the drunk?

If "no" to both, simply don't bring her.

FWIW, in Mass, it's the age of 14 for the child to determine where the child lives. Is there anything like that for an age at which a child can determine he/she will not visit a parent?

 

[Godsbrother]

The worst part is that he's supposed to pay $600 a month in child support but he doesn't pay because he can't keep a job. Meanwhile, his mom is extremely wealthy, yet she refuses to pay the money because it's "not her responsibility." This ##### wants to be a grandmother, but doesn't think she should have to pay any money to her granddaughter.

She has every right to want to be a grandmother, but I don't see where she should feel compelled to take on these payments. Dad sounds like a major ###, though.

Yeah I am not seeing why she should be paying the $600/month child support to see her grandaughter.

I agree that she has no obligation to pay the $600. But she also has no rights to see her granddaughter. The only reason she has any ability to see her now is that her loser son is living with her. If TIS could get his butt thrown in jail for not paying child support, they would have every right to cut grandma off completely.

Exactly! I'm not trying to punish her in to paying her son's child support. What I'm saying is that she knows full well that the only reason she is seeing her granddaughter is because she's, essentially, working the system.

Our goal isn't to keep her from seeing her granddaughter. What I was saying was that she is very well off. VERY well off. And to think that she contributes nothing to her granddaughter is mindblowing to us. Sure, she's not required to. But I can tell you that my parents, who are not her actual grandparents, spend huge amounts of money on her. My parents are quite well off, too. And they are not required to pay for anything. But they spend money on her to make sure she has everything possible. I can't imagine a grandparent not doing this. Not WANTING to do this. Especially if they have the means.

Not trying to excuse her behavior, but an explanation for it might be something along the lines of... she blames your GF for ruining the relationship and making her son a drunk.

Don't know why she'd "punish" the granddaughter in all of this by not helping out with this or that since she has the means (extra-curricular activities are always a good grandparent thing- gives them a feeling of being a part of the kid's life in a tangible way), but that's up to her.

Other than providing a way of imagining why she's not helping- I got nothing... but good vibes for you and yours in this situation. Seems like the best option is to extricate the kid from drunk dad until he can clean himself up, but wtf do I know.

This is a good possibility. A lot of mother-in-laws can't stand their son-in-law so it isn't s big stretch to think that she isn't enamored with her son's ex and live in boyfriend. She is probably pissed at the whole situation which doesn't excuse her taking it out in the kid but aside from not paying support we haven't heard that she is being mean or unloving to the little girl.

It sounded like the main reason the daughter doesn't want to go is because it interferes with her seeing friends on the weekend. I can understand that and don't blame her but I doubt that is going to work in getting visitation terminated or reduced. They're probably be better off going with the drunk father angle.

To me, it sounds like the main reason is her father is a drunk and she's embarrassed to be around him

The original post said she wanted to be with her friends and she doesn't like her father so I guess it is both.

The reality is the Sheik really has no call on this as he is not the kid's daughter and not even the husband of the mother. It is really up to his girlfriend to pursue this.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

To me, it sounds like the main reason is her father is a drunk and she's embarrassed to be around him

Well, crap. If every teenager who was embarrassed by their drunk father was allowed to get what they wanted, then none of us would see our kids.

Hmmm. Interesting thought.

 

[Godsbrother]

First, please excuse that I am oversimplifying this greatly. Start with your heart, and the core question of "what do you really want for her"? Once you have a very short list, outline a specific set of actions and backup/contingency plans that go towards those goals. Then define the items that you are willing to give up (or personally tolerate/endure) to make that happen. You can change things in the divorce decree if everyone agrees, or if no one disagrees (keep documented agreement, though). As an example:

1. Want girlfriend's daughter to have positive relationship and interactions with her father.

• Define the set of conditions required for this to happen, and propose actions based on when the situation is not conducive to a positive relationship. For example, agree that in the best interests of the daughter, you will assess his condition when you drop her off (i.e., no more grandma pickups) and she will not stay if he is drunk. Also agree that she will be picked up if Dad becomes drunk, and visitation will be done for that week.
• Are you willing to drop the issue of collecting child support if this is agreed upon by Dad? If so, that's your bargaining chip to get his consent. If he's as selfish as he is portrayed, this shouldn't be hard. As long as the daughter is taken care by your family, the benefit of the unpaid child support may not be worth the constant battle. You aren't getting it now, so you aren't really giving up anything.

3. Want positive relationship with grandma

• Establish grandma activities and times where they can interact without drunk Dad (i.e., outside of house where Dad lives). Remove her from the equation by giving her the time with her granddaughter. Invite her over at some frequency (e.g., dinner/outing every two weeks). If you really want this for the daughter, you might have to put up with a bit of crap for her benefit.

Just holding up a mirror a bit, but there are lots of sour grapes raised in the posts that have nothing to do with the best interests of the daughter. Get out of the trap of telling stories about grandma's money and child support you aren't getting. You want her to be able to form good relationships when she is older, and not have Daddy issue baggage for years to come. If she were to see him when he isn't drunk, that may be a good starting point. If what you really want is different (e.g., Dad out of her life completely), then clearly the actions can be radically different. Best of luck!

This can't possibly work- you went straight from 1 to 3.

#2 was to start sleeping with the ex's mother.

 

[inca911]

The reality is the Sheik really has no call on this as he is not the kid's daughter and not even the husband of the mother. It is really up to his girlfriend to pursue this.

Sheik can provide advice and counsel to Mom, which is what he's requesting.

 

[inca911]

#2 was to start sleeping with the ex's mother.

#2 was so obvious, it didn't even need to be stated. Dusty Muffin Club and all that....

 

[TheIronSheik]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

 

[Henry Ford]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

I swear that should be on my card instead of Attorney at Law.

Yankee23fan, Esq.

"It will either be very expensive or very messy."

Call.....

 

[Henry Ford]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

I swear that should be on my card instead of Attorney at Law.

Yankee23fan, Esq.

"It will either be very expensive or very messy."

Call.....

Stop that.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

Yeah. That's what I figured. But even I had underestimated the actual money range of "very expensive." Yikes.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

I swear that should be on my card instead of Attorney at Law.

Yankee23fan, Esq.

"It will either be very expensive or very messy."

Call.....

Stop that.

Lol. I did that just for you. Glad you caught it.

And for the record, I have stopped doing that on all letters. It's liberating.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

Yeah. That's what I figured. But even I had underestimated the actual money range of "very expensive." Yikes.

Sorry I scared you so much - PA might be different - I just have to look at worst case scenario as the starting point.

 

[Henry Ford]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

I swear that should be on my card instead of Attorney at Law.

Yankee23fan, Esq.

"It will either be very expensive or very messy."

Call.....

Stop that.

Lol. I did that just for you. Glad you caught it.

And for the record, I have stopped doing that on all letters. It's liberating.

Isn't it? When I'm feeling really liberated, I like to cross off the last name of the person I'm sending the letter to and hand write the first name in. Like this:

Dear Mr. Johnson: Tim

That way, they know I think of them fondly - and I'm a rebel who has no use for rules.

 

[Henry Ford]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

Yeah. That's what I figured. But even I had underestimated the actual money range of "very expensive." Yikes.

I prefer messy. Beginning by having that child support order registered with the Domestic Relations Section in your county, and having them start to enforce it.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

Yeah. That's what I figured. But even I had underestimated the actual money range of "very expensive." Yikes.

Sorry I scared you so much - PA might be different - I just have to look at worst case scenario as the starting point.

Its good to be aware of the worst case scenario, but also keep in mind that it will only be very expensive/messy if the other side puts up a fight. Just because they have the means doesn't guarantee they'll be willing to fight. It doesn't cost much to test their mettle and, at worst end up back where you started, most likely get some positive out of it and best case, they fold.

 

[El Floppo]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

somebody in here thinks you're a bad guy based on what you've posted in this thread?

caveat- I'm too lazy to go back and reread... but wtf? you're trying to do right and treat a non-blood person as your blood... somebody really wants to judge you negatively based on that?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

I swear that should be on my card instead of Attorney at Law.

Yankee23fan, Esq.

"It will either be very expensive or very messy."

Call.....

Stop that.

Lol. I did that just for you. Glad you caught it.

And for the record, I have stopped doing that on all letters. It's liberating.

Isn't it? When I'm feeling really liberated, I like to cross off the last name of the person I'm sending the letter to and hand write the first name in. Like this:

Dear Mr. Johnson: Tim

That way, they know I think of them fondly - and I'm a rebel who has no use for rules.

I do that all the time.

 

[The Duff Man]

Have you tried the camel clutch?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Some good advice, some harsh, but a lot of truth...

I doubt there is anything you can do cheaply, which sucks, but if involves legal, the lawyers will collect.

Does the Grandma at least take her shopping and buy her clothes, toys, etc?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Also, I know a guy who does wet work for about $200.

 

[SeaDogStat]

Maybe the daughter can sue to not visit the grandmother and drunky...

 

[Zow]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

I swear that should be on my card instead of Attorney at Law.

Yankee23fan, Esq.

"It will either be very expensive or very messy."

Call.....

Stop that.

Lol. I did that just for you. Glad you caught it.

And for the record, I have stopped doing that on all letters. It's liberating.

I've stopped this as well due to that thread, except for the signature line on my firm's pleadings because the partners wanted to leave it as is. I've also started addressing opposing counsel in letters as Mr. Smith, Esq. Just to be all fancy.

 

[Zow]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

I swear that should be on my card instead of Attorney at Law.

Yankee23fan, Esq.

"It will either be very expensive or very messy."

Call.....

I wish that I had special family law cards which read "No, we cannot sever your ex's rights and odds are both you and your ex are going to walk away frustrated."

 

[TheIronSheik]

Some good advice, some harsh, but a lot of truth...

I doubt there is anything you can do cheaply, which sucks, but if involves legal, the lawyers will collect.

Does the Grandma at least take her shopping and buy her clothes, toys, etc?

The grandmother probably spends about $50 on her annually. That's probably a very high estimate.

 

[Henry Ford]

I know there's usually two sides to every story. And I know that a lot of people can't fathom that a father and grandmother could be as bad as I'm describing.

I will say that I have no reason to lie to anyone on here. I have always been truthful and honest. And I am an unbelievably nice guy.

In my lifetime, I have never met two worse people than these two. Again, I don't really want to air too much of my family's dirty laundry on this site, so you'll just have to take what I say at face value.

My goal, first and foremost, is to make sure this little girl grows up to be a good person and has the same advantages most kids have. I don't care who is in her life, as long as they don't hurt her. I understand why some of you may think that I'm the bad guy in this situation. That's fine by me. You don't have all of the facts. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm a good guy. I know I am.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your position on this. There are ways to keep daddy and grandma out of the kid's life, but they will either be very expensive or very messy.

I swear that should be on my card instead of Attorney at Law.

Yankee23fan, Esq.

"It will either be very expensive or very messy."

Call.....

Stop that.

Lol. I did that just for you. Glad you caught it.

And for the record, I have stopped doing that on all letters. It's liberating.

I've stopped this as well due to that thread, except for the signature line on my firm's pleadings because the partners wanted to leave it as is. I've also started addressing opposing counsel in letters as Mr. Smith, Esq. Just to be all fancy.

You don't use Mr. and Esq. together. It's bad form.

 

[Henry Ford]

Some good advice, some harsh, but a lot of truth...

I doubt there is anything you can do cheaply, which sucks, but if involves legal, the lawyers will collect.

Does the Grandma at least take her shopping and buy her clothes, toys, etc?

The grandmother probably spends about $50 on her annually. That's probably a very high estimate.

She sounds lovely.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Some good advice, some harsh, but a lot of truth...

I doubt there is anything you can do cheaply, which sucks, but if involves legal, the lawyers will collect.

Does the Grandma at least take her shopping and buy her clothes, toys, etc?

The grandmother probably spends about $50 on her annually. That's probably a very high estimate.

Funny story, my daughter's birthday is close to Christmas. For her birthday, the grandmother got her a card and in it it said that she would be donating $200 to a horse farm in my daughter's name. She was told that that would cover both her birthday and Christmas, so don't expect anything for Christmas.

Awesome gifts for a 9 year old. Not to mention, I kind of doubt that she even actually made a donation.