Question re: the last scene in Shawshank (1 Viewer)

[Wingnut]

4 pages?

 

[Insein]

This is why I don't read books.

 

[Das Boot]

Maybe he never met Andy. He was a figment of Red's imagination created by his subconscious to help him cope with the horrors of incarceration.

Kind of like Fight Club. Whoa... that's deep.

 

[peaces]

didn't read every post so maybe said, but couldn't they have just not shown Andy's face and gotten almost the same effect but still leaving it in the watchers mind

 

[El Floppo]

didn't read every post so maybe said, but couldn't they have just not shown Andy's face and gotten almost the same effect but still leaving it in the watchers mind

categorically no.

 

[peaces]

didn't read every post so maybe said, but couldn't they have just not shown Andy's face and gotten almost the same effect but still leaving it in the watchers mind

categorically no.

So maybe

 

[parasaurolophus]

This is why I don't read books.

This is why I treat books and movies as two completely different entities.

I have never read this book, but if I did I wouldnt compare it to the movie or use it as a guide to the movie.

 

[glock]

Stephen King

 

[kentric]

4 pages?

Not only that, 293 votes. Dayam...

 

[playin4beer]

Maybe he never met Andy. He was a figment of Red's imagination created by his subconscious to help him cope with the horrors of incarceration.

Kind of like Fight Club. Whoa... that's deep.

Or.. Like Fresh Prince...

Will actually died in the fight on the basketball court in West Philly.

The taxi driver is actually God, who drives a “rare” cab. He takes Will to heaven, where he works out all his issues with his wealthy Aunt and Uncle.

Will only sees his mother and father on special occasions, because that’s when they come to visit his grave.

 

[Insein]

Maybe he never met Andy. He was a figment of Red's imagination created by his subconscious to help him cope with the horrors of incarceration.

Kind of like Fight Club. Whoa... that's deep.

Or.. Like Fresh Prince...

Will actually died in the fight on the basketball court in West Philly.

The taxi driver is actually God, who drives a rare cab. He takes Will to heaven, where he works out all his issues with his wealthy Aunt and Uncle.

Will only sees his mother and father on special occasions, because thats when they come to visit his grave.

Whoa. That's fresh.

 

[Oink Oink the Pig]

Although they didn't show it in the movie, it's obvious they are in love. Spending that much time with another man in close quarters will do that to you. I like to belileve that Red hooked up with Andy and they shared a long passionate kiss on the beach. Andy would then slowly lower his Levi's and make gentle love to him.

The End

 

[bigbottom]

Although they didn't show it in the movie, it's obvious they are in love. Spending that much time with another man in close quarters will do that to you. I like to belileve that Red hooked up with Andy and they shared a long passionate kiss on the beach. Andy would then slowly lower his Levi's and make gentle love to him.

The End

Trailer

 

[Parrothead]

all those years of Andy digging with the rock hammer, just to build a glory hole to Red's cell...

 

[Oink Oink the Pig]

Although they didn't show it in the movie, it's obvious they are in love. Spending that much time with another man in close quarters will do that to you. I like to belileve that Red hooked up with Andy and they shared a long passionate kiss on the beach. Andy would then slowly lower his Levi's and make gentle love to him.

The End

Trailer

 

[SeaDogStat]

"Those of us who knew him best talk about him often . . .

Sometimes it makes me sad though . . .

Andy being gone.

I have to remind myself that some birds aren't meant to be caged.

Their feathers are just too bright.

And when they fly away, the part of you that knows it was a sin to lock them up does rejoice.

But still, the place you live in is that much more drab and empty that they're gone.

I guess I just miss my friend."

*****

*****

I find I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head.

I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel.

A free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain.

I hope I can make it across the border.

I hope to see my friend and shake his hand.

I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams.

I hope."

 

[msommer]

Doesn't really support one interpretation or the other, but this interesting tidbit is from a Shawshank trivia page:

9. Final Scene

The final scene, in which Red finds Andy on a beach in Zihuatanejo, Mexico, was not intended to be in the film at all. Director Frank Darabont wanted the film to stay as true to Stephen Kings short story as possible, and refused to shoot the scene because it was not in the original story. Associates persuaded him to shoot the scene, but Darabont still wanted to cut it until positive reactions from test audiences convinced him otherwise.

Now I'm torn between liking Darabont more and less. More for wanting nothing to do with that crappy scene, less for caving and almost ruining a great film

 

[Otis]

"Those of us who knew him best talk about him often . . .

Sometimes it makes me sad though . . .

Andy being gone.

I have to remind myself that some birds aren't meant to be caged.

Their feathers are just too bright.

And when they fly away, the part of you that knows it was a sin to lock them up does rejoice.

But still, the place you live in is that much more drab and empty that they're gone.

I guess I just miss my friend."

*****

*****

I find I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head.

I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel.

A free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain.

I hope I can make it across the border.

I hope to see my friend and shake his hand.

I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams.

I hope."

Exactly.

 

[msommer]

"Those of us who knew him best talk about him often . . .

Sometimes it makes me sad though . . .

Andy being gone.

I have to remind myself that some birds aren't meant to be caged.

Their feathers are just too bright.

And when they fly away, the part of you that knows it was a sin to lock them up does rejoice.

But still, the place you live in is that much more drab and empty that they're gone.

I guess I just miss my friend."

*****

*****

I find I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head.

I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel.

A free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain.

I hope I can make it across the border.

I hope to see my friend and shake his hand.

I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams.

I hope."

Exactly.

Just end the damn scene as the bus disappears over the hill...

 

[MikeMan]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It would have been better had they not had the beach scene. Movie was overlong by 10-15 minutes already.

 

[bigbottom]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

Totally disagree. Red had been institutionalized. Following orders (and asking permission to go to the bathroom) had become his way of life. It was no small feat to make the decision to break parole and strike off on some road trip in the hopes that he'd find his friend. Remember, the viewer knows that Andy made it to his destination, but Red doesn't. All Red has, is hope.

 

[Otis]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

Maybe Andy has moved on. Isn't this years and years after Andy's escape? Maybe he's dead? Picked up by the authorities down there? Or just decided it wasn't working out there and so moved to another town. Who is to say the guy finally gets free and picks a town in Mexico, goes to that very town and stays there forever? And does he feel THAT loyal to a guy he hasn't seen in years, and who may be dead for all he knows or will spend forever in prison? Maybe Andy decided to tour the coast. Or go to South America.

 

[Josie Maran]

"Those of us who knew him best talk about him often . . .

Sometimes it makes me sad though . . .

Andy being gone.

I have to remind myself that some birds aren't meant to be caged.

Their feathers are just too bright.

And when they fly away, the part of you that knows it was a sin to lock them up does rejoice.

But still, the place you live in is that much more drab and empty that they're gone.

I guess I just miss my friend."

*****

*****

I find I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head.

I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel.

A free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain.

I hope I can make it across the border.

I hope to see my friend and shake his hand.

I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams.

I hope."

Exactly.

Just end the damn scene as the bus disappears over the hill...

Would've been perfect.

 

[Raider Nation]

This is on AMC.

 

[Raider Nation]

Good pole, Oats. It's coming down to the wire.

 

[flapgreen]

This is worse than the guy who thought the bum in the alley was Bill Murray's dad in Groundhog Day because he called him "pop."

 

[Raider Nation]

Guys, did Dorothy really meet a scarecrow?

 

[Insein]

This is worse than the guy who thought the bum in the alley was Bill Murray's dad in Groundhog Day because he called him "pop."

No joke my neighbor a while back thought Dennis Nedry was John Hammond's son in Jurassic park because he said "Thanks Dad" in the movie.

 

[Insein]

This is on AMC.

Yea been watching it for the hundredth time even though I own the unedited version on DVD.

 

[Otis]

Good pole, Oats. It's coming down to the wire.

I can't help it if the majority is wrong sometimes.

 

[bigbottom]

Good pole, Oats. It's coming down to the wire.

I can't help it if the majority is wrong sometimes.

Even the director doesn't know that the last scene was a dream sequence.

 

[flapgreen]

Good pole, Oats. It's coming down to the wire.

I can't help it if the majority is wrong sometimes.

Even the director doesn't know that the last scene was a dream sequence.

Not a very good director.

 

[Otis]

Good pole, Oats. It's coming down to the wire.

I can't help it if the majority is wrong sometimes.

Even the director doesn't know that the last scene was a dream sequence.

Link?

 

[bigbottom]

Good pole, Oats. It's coming down to the wire.

I can't help it if the majority is wrong sometimes.

Even the director doesn't know that the last scene was a dream sequence.

Link?

Interview quoted upthread where Darabont talks about closure, bringing the story full circle, and the audience wanting to actually see Red and Andy reunite on screen. Nothing about the audience wanting to see Red imagining the scene. Nothing in Darabont's explanation of the scene to indicate that it was meant to be anything other than literal. He also talks about the emotions of the scene and references another scene he wanted to film that was a dream sequence. But no reference to this scene as a dream sequence. When responding to the criticism of the "purists" it would have been easy to respond that this was not actual closure, but merely imagined closure, if that was in fact the case. But that wasn't his response. His response is that we needed to have closure for the story. Your statement upthread is that the audience doesn't know if they ever reunite. Darabont's explanation directly contradicts that assertion.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

Maybe Andy has moved on. Isn't this years and years after Andy's escape? Maybe he's dead? Picked up by the authorities down there? Or just decided it wasn't working out there and so moved to another town. Who is to say the guy finally gets free and picks a town in Mexico, goes to that very town and stays there forever? And does he feel THAT loyal to a guy he hasn't seen in years, and who may be dead for all he knows or will spend forever in prison? Maybe Andy decided to tour the coast. Or go to South America.

I didn't know you're a "the glass is half empty" guy.

Anyway, given that the theme of the story is the power of hope, the extra scenes at the end kinda ruins it.

 

[Insein]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

Maybe Andy has moved on. Isn't this years and years after Andy's escape? Maybe he's dead? Picked up by the authorities down there? Or just decided it wasn't working out there and so moved to another town. Who is to say the guy finally gets free and picks a town in Mexico, goes to that very town and stays there forever? And does he feel THAT loyal to a guy he hasn't seen in years, and who may be dead for all he knows or will spend forever in prison? Maybe Andy decided to tour the coast. Or go to South America.

I didn't know you're a "the glass is half empty" guy.Anyway, given that the theme of the story is the power of hope, the extra scenes at the end kinda ruins it.

Hope and redemption. Red redeemed himself fully with the final scene as the payoff. We don't need to guess. He made it.

 

[bigbottom]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

Maybe Andy has moved on. Isn't this years and years after Andy's escape? Maybe he's dead? Picked up by the authorities down there? Or just decided it wasn't working out there and so moved to another town. Who is to say the guy finally gets free and picks a town in Mexico, goes to that very town and stays there forever? And does he feel THAT loyal to a guy he hasn't seen in years, and who may be dead for all he knows or will spend forever in prison? Maybe Andy decided to tour the coast. Or go to South America.

I didn't know you're a "the glass is half empty" guy.Anyway, given that the theme of the story is the power of hope, the extra scenes at the end kinda ruins it.

Hope and redemption. Red redeemed himself fully with the final scene as the payoff. We don't need to guess. He made it.

Hope is the redemption. Hope is the payoff.

 

[Insein]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

Maybe Andy has moved on. Isn't this years and years after Andy's escape? Maybe he's dead? Picked up by the authorities down there? Or just decided it wasn't working out there and so moved to another town. Who is to say the guy finally gets free and picks a town in Mexico, goes to that very town and stays there forever? And does he feel THAT loyal to a guy he hasn't seen in years, and who may be dead for all he knows or will spend forever in prison? Maybe Andy decided to tour the coast. Or go to South America.

I didn't know you're a "the glass is half empty" guy.Anyway, given that the theme of the story is the power of hope, the extra scenes at the end kinda ruins it.

Hope and redemption. Red redeemed himself fully with the final scene as the payoff. We don't need to guess. He made it.

Hope is the redemption. Hope is the payoff.

Sometimes the ambiguous ending works but with this film where everything was shown to us, the beach ending is what we needed.

 

[bigbottom]

I find I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head.

I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel.

A free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain.

I hope I can make it across the border.

I hope to see my friend and shake his hand.

I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams.

I hope."

But don't worry folks! The conclusion will only be uncertain for another 5 seconds!!!

Frankly, while I don't think there is sufficient evidence to support Otis' dream sequence theory, that would be a whole lot better than what we had, which was a saccharine sweet happy ending that completely resolved all the expressions of uncertainty and hope from Red just five seconds earlier.

 

[Henry Ford]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

Maybe Andy has moved on. Isn't this years and years after Andy's escape? Maybe he's dead? Picked up by the authorities down there? Or just decided it wasn't working out there and so moved to another town. Who is to say the guy finally gets free and picks a town in Mexico, goes to that very town and stays there forever? And does he feel THAT loyal to a guy he hasn't seen in years, and who may be dead for all he knows or will spend forever in prison? Maybe Andy decided to tour the coast. Or go to South America.

I didn't know you're a "the glass is half empty" guy.Anyway, given that the theme of the story is the power of hope, the extra scenes at the end kinda ruins it.

Hope and redemption. Red redeemed himself fully with the final scene as the payoff. We don't need to guess. He made it.

Hope is the redemption. Hope is the payoff.

Sometimes the ambiguous ending works but with this film where everything was shown to us, the beach ending is what we needed.

Hope is a leap of faith.

 

[Insein]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

Maybe Andy has moved on. Isn't this years and years after Andy's escape? Maybe he's dead? Picked up by the authorities down there? Or just decided it wasn't working out there and so moved to another town. Who is to say the guy finally gets free and picks a town in Mexico, goes to that very town and stays there forever? And does he feel THAT loyal to a guy he hasn't seen in years, and who may be dead for all he knows or will spend forever in prison? Maybe Andy decided to tour the coast. Or go to South America.

I didn't know you're a "the glass is half empty" guy.Anyway, given that the theme of the story is the power of hope, the extra scenes at the end kinda ruins it.

Hope and redemption. Red redeemed himself fully with the final scene as the payoff. We don't need to guess. He made it.

Hope is the redemption. Hope is the payoff.

Sometimes the ambiguous ending works but with this film where everything was shown to us, the beach ending is what we needed.

Hope is a leap of faith.

And for the audience we found the leap was rewarded.

 

[Christo]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

Maybe Andy has moved on. Isn't this years and years after Andy's escape? Maybe he's dead? Picked up by the authorities down there? Or just decided it wasn't working out there and so moved to another town. Who is to say the guy finally gets free and picks a town in Mexico, goes to that very town and stays there forever? And does he feel THAT loyal to a guy he hasn't seen in years, and who may be dead for all he knows or will spend forever in prison? Maybe Andy decided to tour the coast. Or go to South America.

I didn't know you're a "the glass is half empty" guy.Anyway, given that the theme of the story is the power of hope, the extra scenes at the end kinda ruins it.

Hope and redemption. Red redeemed himself fully with the final scene as the payoff. We don't need to guess. He made it.

Hope is the redemption. Hope is the payoff.

Sometimes the ambiguous ending works but with this film where everything was shown to us, the beach ending is what we needed.

Hope is a leap of faith.

And for the audience we found the leap was rewarded.

Right, the hope belonged to the character not the audience.

 

[Otis]

Good pole, Oats. It's coming down to the wire.

I can't help it if the majority is wrong sometimes.

Even the director doesn't know that the last scene was a dream sequence.

Link?

Interview quoted upthread where Darabont talks about closure, bringing the story full circle, and the audience wanting to actually see Red and Andy reunite on screen. Nothing about the audience wanting to see Red imagining the scene. Nothing in Darabont's explanation of the scene to indicate that it was meant to be anything other than literal. He also talks about the emotions of the scene and references another scene he wanted to film that was a dream sequence. But no reference to this scene as a dream sequence. When responding to the criticism of the "purists" it would have been easy to respond that this was not actual closure, but merely imagined closure, if that was in fact the case. But that wasn't his response. His response is that we needed to have closure for the story. Your statement upthread is that the audience doesn't know if they ever reunite. Darabont's explanation directly contradicts that assertion.

You're inferring a bunch here. He doesn't actually in that interview excerpt address the issued debated in this thread. I'd be curious to know if he took this up elsewhere.

 

[Otis]

I find I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head.

I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel.

A free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain.

I hope I can make it across the border.

I hope to see my friend and shake his hand.

I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams.

I hope."

But don't worry folks! The conclusion will only be uncertain for another 5 seconds!!!

Or not. The entire passage above references only hope and uncertainty. Nothing about a resolution.

 

[Otis]

It would be really silly if they end the movie with a long Red monologue about all this hope and uncertainty about every finding his friend, and then about 3 seconds later showing him actually finding his friend.

 

[bigbottom]

Good pole, Oats. It's coming down to the wire.

I can't help it if the majority is wrong sometimes.

Even the director doesn't know that the last scene was a dream sequence.

Link?

Interview quoted upthread where Darabont talks about closure, bringing the story full circle, and the audience wanting to actually see Red and Andy reunite on screen. Nothing about the audience wanting to see Red imagining the scene. Nothing in Darabont's explanation of the scene to indicate that it was meant to be anything other than literal. He also talks about the emotions of the scene and references another scene he wanted to film that was a dream sequence. But no reference to this scene as a dream sequence. When responding to the criticism of the "purists" it would have been easy to respond that this was not actual closure, but merely imagined closure, if that was in fact the case. But that wasn't his response. His response is that we needed to have closure for the story. Your statement upthread is that the audience doesn't know if they ever reunite. Darabont's explanation directly contradicts that assertion.

You're inferring a bunch here. He doesn't actually in that interview excerpt address the issued debated in this thread. I'd be curious to know if he took this up elsewhere.

He describes the scene as closure for the audience. It wouldn't be closure if it was a dream sequence, which is a point that you made in page one of the thread.

As for inferences, I think the only evidence you've offered is a camera pan.

 

[Otis]

If they had such a special relationship, he would've gone straight from prison to find the box, money, and head to Mexico. Taking the job and wasting time was a big flaw in the movie, imho.

And another vote for yes-that was him actually on the beach. No question about it. And I don't think it matters bc if they quit on the bus, the viewer assumes he finds him anyway being that he has the money to get there and knows the exact location.

Maybe Andy has moved on. Isn't this years and years after Andy's escape? Maybe he's dead? Picked up by the authorities down there? Or just decided it wasn't working out there and so moved to another town. Who is to say the guy finally gets free and picks a town in Mexico, goes to that very town and stays there forever? And does he feel THAT loyal to a guy he hasn't seen in years, and who may be dead for all he knows or will spend forever in prison? Maybe Andy decided to tour the coast. Or go to South America.

I didn't know you're a "the glass is half empty" guy.Anyway, given that the theme of the story is the power of hope, the extra scenes at the end kinda ruins it.

Hope and redemption. Red redeemed himself fully with the final scene as the payoff. We don't need to guess. He made it.

Hope is the redemption. Hope is the payoff.

Right.

 

[bigbottom]

It would be really silly if they end the movie with a long Red monologue about all this hope and uncertainty about every finding his friend, and then about 3 seconds later showing him actually finding his friend.

Silly indeed.

 

[Otis]

Good pole, Oats. It's coming down to the wire.

I can't help it if the majority is wrong sometimes.

Even the director doesn't know that the last scene was a dream sequence.

Link?

Interview quoted upthread where Darabont talks about closure, bringing the story full circle, and the audience wanting to actually see Red and Andy reunite on screen. Nothing about the audience wanting to see Red imagining the scene. Nothing in Darabont's explanation of the scene to indicate that it was meant to be anything other than literal. He also talks about the emotions of the scene and references another scene he wanted to film that was a dream sequence. But no reference to this scene as a dream sequence. When responding to the criticism of the "purists" it would have been easy to respond that this was not actual closure, but merely imagined closure, if that was in fact the case. But that wasn't his response. His response is that we needed to have closure for the story. Your statement upthread is that the audience doesn't know if they ever reunite. Darabont's explanation directly contradicts that assertion.

You're inferring a bunch here. He doesn't actually in that interview excerpt address the issued debated in this thread. I'd be curious to know if he took this up elsewhere.

He describes the scene as closure for the audience. It wouldn't be closure if it was a dream sequence, which is a point that you made in page one of the thread.

As for inferences, I think the only evidence you've offered is a camera pan.

Well, just the camera pan. And the closing monologue. And the book on which the movie was based. And logic. And the fact that any other conclusion is incredibly silly given all we know.