Ran a 10k in June (4 Viewers)

[Ned]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats! 40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

 

[SFBayDuck]

Second "intensity" workout of the week, dipping my toe in the tempo run waters. I ran 4 miles around one lake relatively normal/easy, then headed up to the smaller lake and hit the 1.7 miles around it with a goal of 155-165 HR. The loop contains some very small rolling stuff, so I figured it was a good trail for this type of run. Looking at my past Strava segment results I typically do this in my normal 140ish HR somewhere between 11:25 and 12:30 miles, depending upon when I come upon it (this section is often included in longer runs). Today, with exactly 160 avg hr my pace was 10:05 - 1:20/mile faster than I've ever run this loop.

It wasn't too difficult, as I feel like I'm already starting to adjust to the feeling of running harder after just a couple of efforts. I plan on doubling the distance of this one next week, but I'm trying to ease into this whole intensity idea without pushing too much so I don't tweak something.

 

[BassNBrew]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

IMO training with a goal time of 3:30 is a waste of time for you. If you hold you half time for another three miles, you could walk the last 10 miles and have a good shot at 3:30. To truly train for a 3:30 pace you would have to back off whatever got you to 1:30 by about 1'10 per mile. Seems like you would actually lose speed and move further away from your 3:05 goal by training this way.

By the way, congrats on an amazing half.

 

[BassNBrew]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

 

[tri-man 47]

Can we resurrect SteveC's comments on race projections? I had typically used the HM doubled + 10 minutes, but Steve presented some very good tools for estimating the longer length. Similar to Andy, I've run a 1:30 HM (totally nailed it that day), but my marathon best is 3:33. So many factors to consider. But I do agree that mileage is critical.

 

[gruecd]

####, almost forgot. Ran into my ex-GF on Friday night (completely unexpectedly) at the bar. First contact we'd had in almost 3 months, and the emotion was palpable. We talked for a bit that night and again the next day, and we're actually gonna get together for a drink later tonight. No guarantees or promises for the future, and for now we're just gonna focus on getting back on good terms and catching up on each other's lives, but considering how I thought I'd never talk to her again, it's a start. I'm nervous as hell.

I know this isn't the relationship thread but give us an update. I'm headed back to the south Friday for a few weeks and planned on connecting with a few exes , not real certain what my goal is but would like to hear how it goes for you. Good luck.

We're talking again. Baby steps. I'm pretty sure she loves me AND hates me right now. Definitely gonna take some time, and I'm trying to be patient. Not my strong suit.

 

[Ned]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

We have 2 guys that like the calculators because they accurately predicted their times, but then you have me and tri that don't sniff the predictions (I have a 1:32 HM and 3:31 FM). Sure, they're going to be right for some people. But trying to use a one size fits all calculator to tell you how to train for something like racing a marathon is just asking for trouble.

 

[BassNBrew]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

We have 2 guys that like the calculators because they accurately predicted their times, but then you have me and tri that don't sniff the predictions (I have a 1:32 HM and 3:31 FM). Sure, they're going to be right for some people. But trying to use a one size fits all calculator to tell you how to train for something like racing a marathon is just asking for trouble.

As I recall you came into that half at top condition and had some issues at the marathon then backed off your training for archery. You're not a 3:31 marathon guy given good training and weather and you know that. I'd wager your under 3:15 at your next attempt if conditions are favorable. Tri-man got pummeled by bad weather and then did something like 3 marathons in 6 weeks.

What is your 5k pr?

 

[Ned]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

We have 2 guys that like the calculators because they accurately predicted their times, but then you have me and tri that don't sniff the predictions (I have a 1:32 HM and 3:31 FM). Sure, they're going to be right for some people. But trying to use a one size fits all calculator to tell you how to train for something like racing a marathon is just asking for trouble.

As I recall you came into that half at top condition and had some issues at the marathon then backed off your training for archery. You're not a 3:31 marathon guy given good training and weather and you know that. I'd wager your under 3:15 at your next attempt if conditions are favorable. Tri-man got pummeled by bad weather and then did something like 3 marathons in 6 weeks.

What is your 5k pr?

I will admit I agree with that and think my 3:31 is soft (and 1:32 also), but I still think those things are dangerous to use. They should be caveated with 'for entertainment purposes only'.

19:42, which I think is a bit soft now too.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

We have 2 guys that like the calculators because they accurately predicted their times, but then you have me and tri that don't sniff the predictions (I have a 1:32 HM and 3:31 FM). Sure, they're going to be right for some people. But trying to use a one size fits all calculator to tell you how to train for something like racing a marathon is just asking for trouble.

Frankly, Ned, I will take Greg McMillan's word on this over yours. (And not just you. His knowledge and experience advising runners is also better than mine and anyone else posting in this thread.) He believes, with the right training, most runners can at least get close to those calculator times. In your case, there are a few things that stand out. First, it seems like you've had some bad luck with race day weather and such. But there is another red flag to me. You have mentioned how you take much longer to recover from a marathon than one should. I'd guess that is because you haven't properly prepared your body for a race that long that fast.

I'm sure this opinion will come as no surprise, but I suspect you run your long runs and GA runs too slow for what you are trying to accomplish. I would love for you to try picking up the pace for a training cycle (even if you sacrifice volume) and see how your body adapts. I also think you should read McMillan's book You (Only Faster). He not only explains how and why to use the calculator for training paces but also takes the reader through a self evaluation and explains why any training programs you use (Pfitz, Higdon, etc.) needs to be modified due to your individual strengths and weaknesses.

 

[BassNBrew]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

We have 2 guys that like the calculators because they accurately predicted their times, but then you have me and tri that don't sniff the predictions (I have a 1:32 HM and 3:31 FM). Sure, they're going to be right for some people. But trying to use a one size fits all calculator to tell you how to train for something like racing a marathon is just asking for trouble.

As I recall you came into that half at top condition and had some issues at the marathon then backed off your training for archery. You're not a 3:31 marathon guy given good training and weather and you know that. I'd wager your under 3:15 at your next attempt if conditions are favorable. Tri-man got pummeled by bad weather and then did something like 3 marathons in 6 weeks.

What is your 5k pr?

I will admit I agree with that and think my 3:31 is soft (and 1:32 also), but I still think those things are dangerous to use. They should be caveated with 'for entertainment purposes only'.

19:42, which I think is a bit soft now too.

Millian says your 5k time should be 19'39 based on your half pr, so I guess it's a bit soft. Interesting that he's within 3 seconds.

 

[Hang 10]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

We have 2 guys that like the calculators because they accurately predicted their times, but then you have me and tri that don't sniff the predictions (I have a 1:32 HM and 3:31 FM). Sure, they're going to be right for some people. But trying to use a one size fits all calculator to tell you how to train for something like racing a marathon is just asking for trouble.

As I recall you came into that half at top condition and had some issues at the marathon then backed off your training for archery. You're not a 3:31 marathon guy given good training and weather and you know that. I'd wager your under 3:15 at your next attempt if conditions are favorable. Tri-man got pummeled by bad weather and then did something like 3 marathons in 6 weeks.

What is your 5k pr?

I will admit I agree with that and think my 3:31 is soft (and 1:32 also), but I still think those things are dangerous to use. They should be caveated with 'for entertainment purposes only'.

19:42, which I think is a bit soft now too.

Millian says your 5k time should be 19'39 based on your half pr, so I guess it's a bit soft. Interesting that he's within 3 seconds.

If all of Ned's times are flaccid how does he know that the calculators don't work?

 

[BassNBrew]

Today is going to be a good day in the 10k thread. Hang 10 and myself stirred the sleeping giant, Jux just kicked him in the nads and then took his candy.

 

[gruecd]

 

[gruecd]

I also think you should read McMillan's book You (Only Faster). He not only explains how and why to use the calculator for training paces but also takes the reader through a self evaluation and explains why any training programs you use (Pfitz, Higdon, etc.) needs to be modified due to your individual strengths and weaknesses.

Thanks. I'd never heard of this book. Just downloaded to my iPad. I'll read when I'm traveling back and forth to NY for work next week!

 

[Ned]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

We have 2 guys that like the calculators because they accurately predicted their times, but then you have me and tri that don't sniff the predictions (I have a 1:32 HM and 3:31 FM). Sure, they're going to be right for some people. But trying to use a one size fits all calculator to tell you how to train for something like racing a marathon is just asking for trouble.

Frankly, Ned, I will take Greg McMillan's word on this over yours. (And not just you. His knowledge and experience advising runners is also better than mine and anyone else posting in this thread.) He believes, with the right training, most runners can at least get close to those calculator times. In your case, there are a few things that stand out. First, it seems like you've had some bad luck with race day weather and such. But there is another red flag to me. You have mentioned how you take much longer to recover from a marathon than one should. I'd guess that is because you haven't properly prepared your body for a race that long that fast.

I'm sure this opinion will come as no surprise, but I suspect you run your long runs and GA runs too slow for what you are trying to accomplish. I would love for you to try picking up the pace for a training cycle (even if you sacrifice volume) and see how your body adapts. I also think you should read McMillan's book You (Only Faster). He not only explains how and why to use the calculator for training paces but also takes the reader through a self evaluation and explains why any training programs you use (Pfitz, Higdon, etc.) needs to be modified due to your individual strengths and weaknesses.

I'm not sure why this became about me, but I suspect I've pushed my agenda for too long and rubbed you the wrong way. Sorry if I did; I'll cool it. I wasn't telling you or Andy to take my word for it, just stating my opinion that its dangerous to take these calculators at face value. By all means, jump into 18/55 on Monday and follow the McMillan pace calculator. What's the worst that can happen?

This calculator debate is a tiresome argument, but we'll have to agree to disagree. McMillan has all of the credentials, so by all means his word should take credence over mine. His calculator obvious lines up with you, so of course you're going to agree with him. I was just cautioning Andy, who is apparently a very gifted guy that is on a light training schedule, to be careful jumping into a very serious training plan using what I feel is an aggressive calculator. His previous peak training mileage is what Pfitz says you should be frequently doing right before starting 18/55. If he's only been doing say 25-30mpw right now, he's in for a rude awakening a couple of weeks from now.

We've both had success using different training approaches and I respect that - I won't call out your red flags. Its no surprise that success has us believing strongly in what we do. My marathons have gone from 4:42 to 3:31 and 5K from 26:17 to 19:42. If I did all this by training too slow, you better be careful giving me advice. I may just catch you.

My red flags - I do agree with you. You need to train faster on the long stuff if you want to run fast/long. However, you act as if I was doing nothing but running super slow long runs. That would foolishly leave a lot on the table when I'm trying to race a marathon. My last marathon cycle I ran 2 MP runs per month and had 2-3 mid week tempo runs. Are you suggesting I run every Sunday as a MP run? I have Hanson's book on my iPad and will download McMillan's book too.

 

[tri-man 47]

Today is going to be a good day in the 10k thread. Hang 10 and myself stirred the sleeping giant, Jux just kicked him in the nads and then took his candy.

Oh, behave! I was reading along here and thinking how cool it is that we can continue to have such engaging discussions ...not easily done here in the FFA.

And juxt, great job on the fast mile!!!

 

[BassNBrew]

Today is going to be a good day in the 10k thread. Hang 10 and myself stirred the sleeping giant, Jux just kicked him in the nads and then took his candy.

Oh, behave! I was reading along here and thinking how cool it is that we can continue to have such engaging discussions ...not easily done here in the FFA.

And juxt, great job on the fast mile!!!

I was thinking the same thing...hence today is going to be a good day. Things kind of died after Ned's response.

 

[MAC_32]

Hate it when your body is ready to race but it's not for two more days. Just know you will wake up in two days and you won't feel near as well and will have to draw energy from an unknown source

Sorry, runner rant.

 

[tri-man 47]

predicted marathon time, based on HM projections (e.g., HM x 2 + 10 minutes).

I saw this come up in another forum as well and did an analysis to debunk this rule. I have been convinced for years that this only applies to the truely elite or truely sub-elite that are extremely slow-twitched, or just people who sandbagged their HMs.

I also came up with a simple but slightly more realistic conversation ratio - just divide your full-marathon by half-marathon. (or multiply your HM by 2.15-2.20, see results below)

Group 1: The fastest marathoners ever:

Haile Gebrselassie - 58:55 / 2:03:59 (2.104)

Geoff Mutai - 58:58 / 2:03:02*/2:04:15 (2.086 / 2.107, *Boston 2012, not WR eligible)

Patrick Makau - 58:52 / 2:03:38 (2.100)

Wilson Kipsang - 58:59 / 2:03:23 (2.092)

Group 2: The fastest American marathoners currently:

Meb keflezighi - 61:00 / 2:09:08 (2.117) Never really ran a fast course or time trial type race at his prime.

Dathan Ritzenhein - 60:00 / 2:07:47 (2.130)

Ryan Hall - 59:43 / 2:04:53*/2:06:17 (2.091 / 2.115)

Abdi Abdirahman - 61:07 / 2:08:56 (2.110)

Group 3: A bunch of 2:20-2:40 friends/rivals:

1) 65:45 / 2:21:30 (2.152)

2) 68:57 / 2:29:54 (2.174)

3) 69:01 / 2:27:30 (2.138)

4) 70:54 / 2:31:00 (2.130)

5) 71:30 / 2:31:00 (2.111)

6) 75:30 / 2:44 (2.172)

7) 78:30 / 2:48:30 (2.146)

Group 4: A few samples from this thread:

1) Juxt - 86 / 3:06 (2.16)

2) Gruecd -87:01 / 2:59:48 (2.07) *Sandbagged the half for sure*

3) Ned - 92:53 / 3:31:20 (2.38) *Marathon was a bad day*

4) Tri - 91:32 / 3:33:29 (2.33)

5) Worrier - 1:42 / 4:02 (2.37)

I think a few things I am seeing is that the ratio is impacted a lot by overall training mileage, and whether you were destined to be a marathoner in the first place. I do believe that most people with sufficient training and optimal pacing can get their ratio down to the 2.15-2.25 range. (unfortunately that converts to about 13.5-22.5 min for the average 90-min half guy). I think most of you have BQs in the 3:15-3:20 range, so you should be able to get there within another marathon-specific cycle or two.. (talking mainly about Ned/Tri).

Found Steve's earlier comments.

 

[beer 30]

http://www.flotrack.org/article/26850?force=1#.U4ncGygkS8S

Yea so Galen Rupp broke his American record 10k time last night running in a time that is pretty close to my 5k time, 26:44.36. Pretty solid effort

 

[BassNBrew]

http://www.flotrack.org/article/26850?force=1#.U4ncGygkS8S

Yea so Galen Rupp broke his American record 10k time last night running in a time that is pretty close to my 5k time, 26:44.36. Pretty solid effort

At the pace he was running, I might be able to keep up with him for 100m. He's dropped me by 200m.

 

[SFBayDuck]

http://www.flotrack.org/article/26850?force=1#.U4ncGygkS8S

Yea so Galen Rupp broke his American record 10k time last night running in a time that is pretty close to my 5k time, 26:44.36. Pretty solid effort

Go Ducks!

 

[Juxtatarot]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.

Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

We have 2 guys that like the calculators because they accurately predicted their times, but then you have me and tri that don't sniff the predictions (I have a 1:32 HM and 3:31 FM). Sure, they're going to be right for some people. But trying to use a one size fits all calculator to tell you how to train for something like racing a marathon is just asking for trouble.

Frankly, Ned, I will take Greg McMillan's word on this over yours. (And not just you. His knowledge and experience advising runners is also better than mine and anyone else posting in this thread.) He believes, with the right training, most runners can at least get close to those calculator times. In your case, there are a few things that stand out. First, it seems like you've had some bad luck with race day weather and such. But there is another red flag to me. You have mentioned how you take much longer to recover from a marathon than one should. I'd guess that is because you haven't properly prepared your body for a race that long that fast.

I'm sure this opinion will come as no surprise, but I suspect you run your long runs and GA runs too slow for what you are trying to accomplish. I would love for you to try picking up the pace for a training cycle (even if you sacrifice volume) and see how your body adapts. I also think you should read McMillan's book You (Only Faster). He not only explains how and why to use the calculator for training paces but also takes the reader through a self evaluation and explains why any training programs you use (Pfitz, Higdon, etc.) needs to be modified due to your individual strengths and weaknesses.

I'm not sure why this became about me, but I suspect I've pushed my agenda for too long and rubbed you the wrong way. Sorry if I did; I'll cool it. I wasn't telling you or Andy to take my word for it, just stating my opinion that its dangerous to take these calculators at face value. By all means, jump into 18/55 on Monday and follow the McMillan pace calculator. What's the worst that can happen?

This calculator debate is a tiresome argument, but we'll have to agree to disagree. McMillan has all of the credentials, so by all means his word should take credence over mine. His calculator obvious lines up with you, so of course you're going to agree with him. I was just cautioning Andy, who is apparently a very gifted guy that is on a light training schedule, to be careful jumping into a very serious training plan using what I feel is an aggressive calculator. His previous peak training mileage is what Pfitz says you should be frequently doing right before starting 18/55. If he's only been doing say 25-30mpw right now, he's in for a rude awakening a couple of weeks from now.

We've both had success using different training approaches and I respect that - I won't call out your red flags. Its no surprise that success has us believing strongly in what we do. My marathons have gone from 4:42 to 3:31 and 5K from 26:17 to 19:42. If I did all this by training too slow, you better be careful giving me advice. I may just catch you.

My red flags - I do agree with you. You need to train faster on the long stuff if you want to run fast/long. However, you act as if I was doing nothing but running super slow long runs. That would foolishly leave a lot on the table when I'm trying to race a marathon. My last marathon cycle I ran 2 MP runs per month and had 2-3 mid week tempo runs. Are you suggesting I run every Sunday as a MP run? I have Hanson's book on my iPad and will download McMillan's book too.

I tried to be careful with my writing "tone" but probably didn't do a good enough job with that. Sorry if I came off rudely. I didn't mean to. I sincerely hope you achieve your marathon goals and appreciate the great advice you have given me and others over the years.

What's your next marathon goal? 3:15? For that time McMillan has your long runs at 7:34 to 8:31 pace, easy runs (AKA GAs) from 7:32 to 8:31, and recoveries from 8:37 to 9:17. I don't remember all your paces, of course, but with the exception of those Pfitz combo pace/long runs, I think you're generally below or near the bottom of those ranges. My opinion is you should always run within these paces. On good days be toward the upper end and on bad days it's OK to be toward the lower end. I know you are concerned with heart rate but I think you should let your heart rate catch up with your training, not the other way around (unless it's crazy high, of course).

I feel strongly about the calculator because it has been a great help and a great motivator to me as I've used it going backwards from my marathon PR times to achieving good "McMillan times" on shorter races and now shift back to my marathon time as it's now my weakest race distance! I guess I don't want any runner new to a particular distance thinking that it is unrealistic to achieve the predicted time it provides (within a small margin, at least).

 

[chauncey]

FUBAR kick some ### tmrw. On the way up to Raleigh with brother and girl who will be racing. If you want to drink some bourbon tonight or get a post race beer hit me up.

 

[FUBAR]

FUBAR kick some ### tmrw. On the way up to Raleigh with brother and girl who will be racing. If you want to drink some bourbon tonight or get a post race beer hit me up.

Thanks!

Post race for sure.

Home now, I took my 5 year old to register. Hope it's a firming memory.

I'd forgotten how complicated tri planning is vs running.

 

[Ned]

Looking for a little advice is if anyone can offer perspective or share experiences:

I just ran a half over memorial day weekend in 1:29:31. I have run a handful of 10Ks all sub-40. Suppose my goal is to eventually qualify for Boston (I'd need a 3:05 marathon for now) -- I'm not sure if that is actually a realistic goal, but let's throw it out there. According to those silly distance conversion calculators, my half time correlates to a 3:06:38 marathon time, so I should be in the ballpark. My concern is that I've run three marathons, all in about 4:15 (extremely slow relative to my other races), and 2 of the 3 have resulted in significant pain/cramping/walking during the race. I suspect I just haven't trained adequately (~40 miles/week max with slow long runs with the lady), so I'm considering doing the Pfitz 18/55 or something like that this time around. Any advice on how to approach training would be really appreciated. I'm running Twin Cities in October and am thinking about training with a goal time of 3:30 in mind. This would be a huge improvement, but I feel it should absolutely be doable with adequate training. From there I would have confidence and a foundation to work toward that 3:05 time -- or more realistically the 3:10 time in a few years.

1:29 is a great time, congrats!40mi max is your answer to your marathon issues. Volume is king, especially for the marathon.

I'm a huge Pfitz fan... What has your training been recently? With an October marathoner you're looking at starting the 18/55 next week. You should have a solid foundation under your belt (~ 40mpw) before jumping into the 18/55.Screw those time calculators. They take too many assumptions into account to be terribly reliable. However, you clearly have the speed to run a BQ with proper training!

Those calculators have pretty much nailed all my prs including coming within a couple of minutes at the 100 distance. The mile/5k/half estimates all seem to be dead on for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for race gaol targets assuming I did the training to support that race goal.

We have 2 guys that like the calculators because they accurately predicted their times, but then you have me and tri that don't sniff the predictions (I have a 1:32 HM and 3:31 FM). Sure, they're going to be right for some people. But trying to use a one size fits all calculator to tell you how to train for something like racing a marathon is just asking for trouble.

Frankly, Ned, I will take Greg McMillan's word on this over yours. (And not just you. His knowledge and experience advising runners is also better than mine and anyone else posting in this thread.) He believes, with the right training, most runners can at least get close to those calculator times. In your case, there are a few things that stand out. First, it seems like you've had some bad luck with race day weather and such. But there is another red flag to me. You have mentioned how you take much longer to recover from a marathon than one should. I'd guess that is because you haven't properly prepared your body for a race that long that fast.

I'm sure this opinion will come as no surprise, but I suspect you run your long runs and GA runs too slow for what you are trying to accomplish. I would love for you to try picking up the pace for a training cycle (even if you sacrifice volume) and see how your body adapts. I also think you should read McMillan's book You (Only Faster). He not only explains how and why to use the calculator for training paces but also takes the reader through a self evaluation and explains why any training programs you use (Pfitz, Higdon, etc.) needs to be modified due to your individual strengths and weaknesses.

I'm not sure why this became about me, but I suspect I've pushed my agenda for too long and rubbed you the wrong way. Sorry if I did; I'll cool it. I wasn't telling you or Andy to take my word for it, just stating my opinion that its dangerous to take these calculators at face value. By all means, jump into 18/55 on Monday and follow the McMillan pace calculator. What's the worst that can happen?This calculator debate is a tiresome argument, but we'll have to agree to disagree. McMillan has all of the credentials, so by all means his word should take credence over mine. His calculator obvious lines up with you, so of course you're going to agree with him. I was just cautioning Andy, who is apparently a very gifted guy that is on a light training schedule, to be careful jumping into a very serious training plan using what I feel is an aggressive calculator. His previous peak training mileage is what Pfitz says you should be frequently doing right before starting 18/55. If he's only been doing say 25-30mpw right now, he's in for a rude awakening a couple of weeks from now.

We've both had success using different training approaches and I respect that - I won't call out your red flags. Its no surprise that success has us believing strongly in what we do. My marathons have gone from 4:42 to 3:31 and 5K from 26:17 to 19:42. If I did all this by training too slow, you better be careful giving me advice. I may just catch you.

My red flags - I do agree with you. You need to train faster on the long stuff if you want to run fast/long. However, you act as if I was doing nothing but running super slow long runs. That would foolishly leave a lot on the table when I'm trying to race a marathon. My last marathon cycle I ran 2 MP runs per month and had 2-3 mid week tempo runs. Are you suggesting I run every Sunday as a MP run? I have Hanson's book on my iPad and will download McMillan's book too.

I tried to be careful with my writing "tone" but probably didn't do a good enough job with that. Sorry if I came off rudely. I didn't mean to. I sincerely hope you achieve your marathon goals and appreciate the great advice you have given me and others over the years.

What's your next marathon goal? 3:15? For that time McMillan has your long runs at 7:34 to 8:31 pace, easy runs (AKA GAs) from 7:32 to 8:31, and recoveries from 8:37 to 9:17. I don't remember all your paces, of course, but with the exception of those Pfitz combo pace/long runs, I think you're generally below or near the bottom of those ranges. My opinion is you should always run within these paces. On good days be toward the upper end and on bad days it's OK to be toward the lower end. I know you are concerned with heart rate but I think you should let your heart rate catch up with your training, not the other way around (unless it's crazy high, of course).

I feel strongly about the calculator because it has been a great help and a great motivator to me as I've used it going backwards from my marathon PR times to achieving good "McMillan times" on shorter races and now shift back to my marathon time as it's now my weakest race distance! I guess I don't want any runner new to a particular distance thinking that it is unrealistic to achieve the predicted time it provides (within a small margin, at least).

No worries. It's hard to get tone through text. I think training above your current fitness level is a big mistake. For one, you're training less than optimally, two you're running the risk of overtraining, and three you're running the risk of injury. The risk isn't worth it. I've had no serious injuries for four years now and I'll bet top dollar a lot of that is from the way I'm training.

Take an extreme example. I believe I have the speed to run a sub 3 in the coming years. Should I start training at those paces next week? Of course not. I need to build my way up to that.

Today I ran a 14 miler at 8:49/145; nearly a perfect zone 1 run. Could I have run that under 8:31? Sure, but I would've been up around 150ish (zone 2) which is frankly too high for 14+. That's better suited for shorter GA runs. I know I'm being stubborn, but pushing all of your long runs above zone 1 is a mistake. There are other places to get the faster long distance training in (MP specific long runs or longer tempo runs).

My PR is a year and a half old. I'm already running right now where I was at at the peak of training last season when I was in 3:21ish shape. Weather permitting, I'll be running a BQ in December (< 3:10).

 

[BassNBrew]

FUBAR kick some ### tmrw. On the way up to Raleigh with brother and girl who will be racing. If you want to drink some bourbon tonight or get a post race beer hit me up.

Thanks!

Post race for sure.

Home now, I took my 5 year old to register. Hope it's a firming memory.

I'd forgotten how complicated tri planning is vs running.

This is going to sound like the pot calling kettle black given I've been doing ultras which are infinatively worse, but tri planning kind of sucked the fun out of it for me.

 

[FUBAR]

FUBAR kick some ### tmrw. On the way up to Raleigh with brother and girl who will be racing. If you want to drink some bourbon tonight or get a post race beer hit me up.

Thanks!

Post race for sure.

Home now, I took my 5 year old to register. Hope it's a firming memory.

I'd forgotten how complicated tri planning is vs running.

This is going to sound like the pot calling kettle black given I've been doing ultras which are infinatively worse, but tri planning kind of sucked the fun out of it for me.

Understood. Don't know what all you plan for in ultras, Forest Gump seemed to manage just fine.

 

[Sand]

To the bolded: you should be able to carry a conversation at any point during a long run. If you can only get out a sentence (*) before needing some air, you're going too fast.

(*) eta: Unless you're a redneck and don't speak in full sentences.

Talking about us folk while I'm not here to defend myself?

Sorry no updates. Still on walkabout for another few days but have managed to get in a couple bike rides and a few run/hikes in the last few days while here in the emerald isle. At the last when I get back I'll have some trail pictures to throw out there.

Weather is supposed to get a bit worse for the rest of the trip so that might be it for the big treks.

Back in country Thursday and have a race Sunday. That is going to hurt. I'll check back in in few days.

(And Juxt seeing as were both 43 I'll just call my mile time the same. I'm sure I'm good for it!)

 

[MAC_32]

Note to self, this is why you pre register. Oof.

 

[Ned]

Note to self, this is why you pre register. Oof.

 

[MAC_32]

Im getting old. Skipped awards and opted for a post race epsom salt bath instead. Because everything hurts. Improvement, 1835, top ten of...a lot. Probably two thousand. Which was why I will never ever register race day again. Glad I got there at 730. I wonder if those that got there after eight even got registered.

Anyway. Didn't leave much out there. Efficient run. 550/600/610. Could have shaved some time on a flatter course, but it'd have need to be f lat and perfect weather to chase 18 today. Maybe I will be luckier in three weeks.

 

[sho nuff]

http://gma.yahoo.com/10-old-breaks-half-marathon-world-record-age-102505936--abc-news-wellness.html

I wish I hadn't read this...

 

[FUBAR]

The nice thing about only having done a handful of 70.3s is you can miss your goal and still PR.

I think I got my best swim time, run time, and for sure my overall time (by 7 minutes). Bike was rough, into the wind and most people mentioned it being a lot slower than last year. Didn't quite get into the 5 teens, but as a season opener, 5:21 and top quarter in age and overall will suffice.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Im getting old. Skipped awards and opted for a post race epsom salt bath instead. Because everything hurts. Improvement, 1835, top ten of...a lot. Probably two thousand. Which was why I will never ever register race day again. Glad I got there at 730. I wonder if those that got there after eight even got registered.

Anyway. Didn't leave much out there. Efficient run. 550/600/610. Could have shaved some time on a flatter course, but it'd have need to be f lat and perfect weather to chase 18 today. Maybe I will be luckier in three weeks.

The nice thing about only having done a handful of 70.3s is you can miss your goal and still PR.

I think I got my best swim time, run time, and for sure my overall time (by 7 minutes). Bike was rough, into the wind and most people mentioned it being a lot slower than last year. Didn't quite get into the 5 teens, but as a season opener, 5:21 and top quarter in age and overall will suffice.

Nicely done fellas!

 

[BassNBrew]

The nice thing about only having done a handful of 70.3s is you can miss your goal and still PR.

I think I got my best swim time, run time, and for sure my overall time (by 7 minutes). Bike was rough, into the wind and most people mentioned it being a lot slower than last year. Didn't quite get into the 5 teens, but as a season opener, 5:21 and top quarter in age and overall will suffice.

Congrats FUBAR. What were your splits?

 

[FUBAR]

The nice thing about only having done a handful of 70.3s is you can miss your goal and still PR.

I think I got my best swim time, run time, and for sure my overall time (by 7 minutes). Bike was rough, into the wind and most people mentioned it being a lot slower than last year. Didn't quite get into the 5 teens, but as a season opener, 5:21 and top quarter in age and overall will suffice.

Congrats FUBAR. What were your splits?

34, 2:49 (my watch said 2:44), 1:49

 

[BassNBrew]

The nice thing about only having done a handful of 70.3s is you can miss your goal and still PR.

I think I got my best swim time, run time, and for sure my overall time (by 7 minutes). Bike was rough, into the wind and most people mentioned it being a lot slower than last year. Didn't quite get into the 5 teens, but as a season opener, 5:21 and top quarter in age and overall will suffice.

Congrats FUBAR. What were your splits?

34, 2:49 (my watch said 2:44), 1:49

Impressive swim. What's you're open half mary time? That seems like a real strong run coming off the bike.

 

[prosopis]

I ran the Meet me downtown Tucson 5k last night. This is my third time at this race. This race is always memorable for the over 100 degree temps every year. I am not a fan of 5k races and I am not sure I would do this one if it was not part of the Gabe Zimmerman triple crown. I will say this race has grown and has turned into quite an event down town and that makes it fun. Live band,beer,food etc...

I am always just trying to improve on my times and competing with myself. i know it is all relative but sometimes I feel silly with my times when reading others.

Having said that.....

I got to the race and it was 109 out. I got there about 1 hour early as I had heard there would be 3,000 runners and I hate looking for parking. I also like to be there to cheer on the kids 1 mile fun run which is really cool.I watched the kids run and I got in place. I am always hoping for an 8:00 min mile so that is where I positioned myself. I have been doing weekly hill workouts on a treadmill hoping that would improve my time on these short races which I think suck.

Gabe Zimmermans dad talked which is always emotional. For those that dont know he was one of the people killed here in the Gabby Giffords shooting.

Gun goes off and away we go. I was feeling really good and really hot. Did I mention it was well over 100. I went out sans water which I never do.

Great crowd support and I got to give out quite a few high fives which I always dig. First water station was just past one mile and I grabbed a water which slowed me down some but it was delicious. My mouth was so dry at this point I can not even describe it. I really had to convince myself to keep going. I really did not want to keep going. Mile two was never ending and support from crowd was thin. Mile three support picks up. Mile three goes through a historic neighborhood and these folks always have barbecues going and make a street party of it. They have hoses pointed up over the street so you may run under the spray if you choose. This is my favorite part of the race. The people are so nice and seem to really be enjoying themselves. They are also very supportive. Race ends with a slight incline. I can not call it a hill but you know you are going up. I took that pretty good and felt my hill work outs were paying off. I am pretty sure I walked a lot of that last year.

Turned the corner and saw the finish line. I saw 27:and change. I pushed to beat 28:00

I was ecstatic at the end and felt I had absolutely beaten last years time. I went and got a free hot dog and beer. Cheered people into the finish for a while and left walking on air. I can not explain how happy I was compared to last year. I felt I did MUCH better.

Here is the interesting part (for me anyway)- Like many others I keep a running log where I make notes. Last year at this race I wrote- "Over 100 at race, tough race" This year I write "Over 100 at race, felt good, thought I did better then last year"

The time difference between the two races- I did get a new PB but it was by two seconds

When I left last night I thought it would have been by a good minute. I have no good answer to why I felt so much better about the race this year compared to last year. I am not sure I even really care. I had fun and that is that.

My final pace was 8:47. McMillan numbers say I should be at 7:44. I think that if I ever do a 5k that is in the am with regular temps I could hit 8:00 pace. I did do one in Phoenix 2/2013 at an 8:06 pace.

Heat certainly plays a big factor in last nights race.

 

[prosopis]

Waiting for age group results.

Official time was 27:31 , 8:51 pace

#415 of 1942 (If we call 14:00 pace walking then the last 500 participants were walkers)

 

[FUBAR]

The nice thing about only having done a handful of 70.3s is you can miss your goal and still PR.

I think I got my best swim time, run time, and for sure my overall time (by 7 minutes). Bike was rough, into the wind and most people mentioned it being a lot slower than last year. Didn't quite get into the 5 teens, but as a season opener, 5:21 and top quarter in age and overall will suffice.

Congrats FUBAR. What were your splits?

34, 2:49 (my watch said 2:44), 1:49

Impressive swim. What's you're open half mary time? That seems like a real strong run coming off the bike.

Last HM was Nashville last year coming off injury (why I didn't run the full) was mid 1:30s.

Looking at the places - 409 in swim, 358 bike, 347 run, 347 overall, out of 2069

For my category - 50/55/48 and 48 total out of 231

So again, my bike is my weak point. But that's probably not a glaring weakness relatively speaking.

For both the bike and run I felt great - except my legs couldn't move faster. I need to work on speed over distance.

Like last time, my calf cramped, then when about to get out of the water, both of my legs cramped where I could barely walk. I'm not sure how to fix that.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I ran the Meet me downtown Tucson 5k last night. This is my third time at this race. This race is always memorable for the over 100 degree temps every year. I am not a fan of 5k races and I am not sure I would do this one if it was not part of the Gabe Zimmerman triple crown. I will say this race has grown and has turned into quite an event down town and that makes it fun. Live band,beer,food etc...

I am always just trying to improve on my times and competing with myself. i know it is all relative but sometimes I feel silly with my times when reading others.

Having said that.....

I got to the race and it was 109 out. I got there about 1 hour early as I had heard there would be 3,000 runners and I hate looking for parking. I also like to be there to cheer on the kids 1 mile fun run which is really cool.I watched the kids run and I got in place. I am always hoping for an 8:00 min mile so that is where I positioned myself. I have been doing weekly hill workouts on a treadmill hoping that would improve my time on these short races which I think suck.

Gabe Zimmermans dad talked which is always emotional. For those that dont know he was one of the people killed here in the Gabby Giffords shooting.

Gun goes off and away we go. I was feeling really good and really hot. Did I mention it was well over 100. I went out sans water which I never do.

Great crowd support and I got to give out quite a few high fives which I always dig. First water station was just past one mile and I grabbed a water which slowed me down some but it was delicious. My mouth was so dry at this point I can not even describe it. I really had to convince myself to keep going. I really did not want to keep going. Mile two was never ending and support from crowd was thin. Mile three support picks up. Mile three goes through a historic neighborhood and these folks always have barbecues going and make a street party of it. They have hoses pointed up over the street so you may run under the spray if you choose. This is my favorite part of the race. The people are so nice and seem to really be enjoying themselves. They are also very supportive. Race ends with a slight incline. I can not call it a hill but you know you are going up. I took that pretty good and felt my hill work outs were paying off. I am pretty sure I walked a lot of that last year.

Turned the corner and saw the finish line. I saw 27:and change. I pushed to beat 28:00

I was ecstatic at the end and felt I had absolutely beaten last years time. I went and got a free hot dog and beer. Cheered people into the finish for a while and left walking on air. I can not explain how happy I was compared to last year. I felt I did MUCH better.

Here is the interesting part (for me anyway)- Like many others I keep a running log where I make notes. Last year at this race I wrote- "Over 100 at race, tough race" This year I write "Over 100 at race, felt good, thought I did better then last year"

The time difference between the two races- I did get a new PB but it was by two seconds

When I left last night I thought it would have been by a good minute. I have no good answer to why I felt so much better about the race this year compared to last year. I am not sure I even really care. I had fun and that is that.

My final pace was 8:47. McMillan numbers say I should be at 7:44. I think that if I ever do a 5k that is in the am with regular temps I could hit 8:00 pace. I did do one in Phoenix 2/2013 at an 8:06 pace.

Heat certainly plays a big factor in last nights race.

Great job! 109 degrees? Damn! My brain can't wrap itself around the idea of racing a 5K at that! I've run in the low 90s on RARE occasions and recovery paces can feel like LT runs! Congrats on the PR!

 

[BassNBrew]

I ran the Meet me downtown Tucson 5k last night. This is my third time at this race. This race is always memorable for the over 100 degree temps every year. I am not a fan of 5k races and I am not sure I would do this one if it was not part of the Gabe Zimmerman triple crown. I will say this race has grown and has turned into quite an event down town and that makes it fun. Live band,beer,food etc...

I am always just trying to improve on my times and competing with myself. i know it is all relative but sometimes I feel silly with my times when reading others.

Having said that.....

I got to the race and it was 109 out. I got there about 1 hour early as I had heard there would be 3,000 runners and I hate looking for parking. I also like to be there to cheer on the kids 1 mile fun run which is really cool.I watched the kids run and I got in place. I am always hoping for an 8:00 min mile so that is where I positioned myself. I have been doing weekly hill workouts on a treadmill hoping that would improve my time on these short races which I think suck.

Gabe Zimmermans dad talked which is always emotional. For those that dont know he was one of the people killed here in the Gabby Giffords shooting.

Gun goes off and away we go. I was feeling really good and really hot. Did I mention it was well over 100. I went out sans water which I never do.

Great crowd support and I got to give out quite a few high fives which I always dig. First water station was just past one mile and I grabbed a water which slowed me down some but it was delicious. My mouth was so dry at this point I can not even describe it. I really had to convince myself to keep going. I really did not want to keep going. Mile two was never ending and support from crowd was thin. Mile three support picks up. Mile three goes through a historic neighborhood and these folks always have barbecues going and make a street party of it. They have hoses pointed up over the street so you may run under the spray if you choose. This is my favorite part of the race. The people are so nice and seem to really be enjoying themselves. They are also very supportive. Race ends with a slight incline. I can not call it a hill but you know you are going up. I took that pretty good and felt my hill work outs were paying off. I am pretty sure I walked a lot of that last year.

Turned the corner and saw the finish line. I saw 27:and change. I pushed to beat 28:00

I was ecstatic at the end and felt I had absolutely beaten last years time. I went and got a free hot dog and beer. Cheered people into the finish for a while and left walking on air. I can not explain how happy I was compared to last year. I felt I did MUCH better.

Here is the interesting part (for me anyway)- Like many others I keep a running log where I make notes. Last year at this race I wrote- "Over 100 at race, tough race" This year I write "Over 100 at race, felt good, thought I did better then last year"

The time difference between the two races- I did get a new PB but it was by two seconds

When I left last night I thought it would have been by a good minute. I have no good answer to why I felt so much better about the race this year compared to last year. I am not sure I even really care. I had fun and that is that.

My final pace was 8:47. McMillan numbers say I should be at 7:44. I think that if I ever do a 5k that is in the am with regular temps I could hit 8:00 pace. I did do one in Phoenix 2/2013 at an 8:06 pace.

Heat certainly plays a big factor in last nights race.

Great job! 109 degrees? Damn! My brain can't wrap itself around the idea of racing a 5K at that! I've run in the low 90s on RARE occasions and recovery paces can feel like LT runs! Congrats on the PR!

yeah but it's a dry heat.

 

[BassNBrew]

The nice thing about only having done a handful of 70.3s is you can miss your goal and still PR.

I think I got my best swim time, run time, and for sure my overall time (by 7 minutes). Bike was rough, into the wind and most people mentioned it being a lot slower than last year. Didn't quite get into the 5 teens, but as a season opener, 5:21 and top quarter in age and overall will suffice.

Congrats FUBAR. What were your splits?

34, 2:49 (my watch said 2:44), 1:49

Impressive swim. What's you're open half mary time? That seems like a real strong run coming off the bike.

Last HM was Nashville last year coming off injury (why I didn't run the full) was mid 1:30s.

Looking at the places - 409 in swim, 358 bike, 347 run, 347 overall, out of 2069

For my category - 50/55/48 and 48 total out of 231

So again, my bike is my weak point. But that's probably not a glaring weakness relatively speaking.

For both the bike and run I felt great - except my legs couldn't move faster. I need to work on speed over distance.

Like last time, my calf cramped, then when about to get out of the water, both of my legs cramped where I could barely walk. I'm not sure how to fix that.

Very interesting that you finished 347 with the other placings. You must have smoked the transitions.

I noticed 11 people within a 30 second range in the 5:21 finish group. Let's hear about the finish.

One of my team mates finished 14th overall, 2nd if you exclude the pros.

The pro that finished 2nd ran a sub 1:10 half in warm conditions coming off virtually the fastest bike time.

 

[FUBAR]

The nice thing about only having done a handful of 70.3s is you can miss your goal and still PR.

I think I got my best swim time, run time, and for sure my overall time (by 7 minutes). Bike was rough, into the wind and most people mentioned it being a lot slower than last year. Didn't quite get into the 5 teens, but as a season opener, 5:21 and top quarter in age and overall will suffice.

Congrats FUBAR. What were your splits?

34, 2:49 (my watch said 2:44), 1:49

Impressive swim. What's you're open half mary time? That seems like a real strong run coming off the bike.

Last HM was Nashville last year coming off injury (why I didn't run the full) was mid 1:30s.Looking at the places - 409 in swim, 358 bike, 347 run, 347 overall, out of 2069

For my category - 50/55/48 and 48 total out of 231

So again, my bike is my weak point. But that's probably not a glaring weakness relatively speaking.

For both the bike and run I felt great - except my legs couldn't move faster. I need to work on speed over distance.

Like last time, my calf cramped, then when about to get out of the water, both of my legs cramped where I could barely walk. I'm not sure how to fix that.

Very interesting that you finished 347 with the other placings. You must have smoked the transitions.

I noticed 11 people within a 30 second range in the 5:21 finish group. Let's hear about the finish.

One of my team mates finished 14th overall, 2nd if you exclude the pros.

The pro that finished 2nd ran a sub 1:10 half in warm conditions coming off virtually the fastest bike time.

With heats, only the 30 something men whose last names start with A-K would be near me. There were a few of us but nothing special. I kicked it in and beat one guy but no great story. I don't think I did well at all in transition. T1 I had cramps all over my legs and could barely walk from water to strippers and from strippers to the bike.

T2 was better with slip on zoots.

Your friend is impressive!

 

[BassNBrew]

The nice thing about only having done a handful of 70.3s is you can miss your goal and still PR.

I think I got my best swim time, run time, and for sure my overall time (by 7 minutes). Bike was rough, into the wind and most people mentioned it being a lot slower than last year. Didn't quite get into the 5 teens, but as a season opener, 5:21 and top quarter in age and overall will suffice.

Congrats FUBAR. What were your splits?

34, 2:49 (my watch said 2:44), 1:49

Impressive swim. What's you're open half mary time? That seems like a real strong run coming off the bike.

Last HM was Nashville last year coming off injury (why I didn't run the full) was mid 1:30s.Looking at the places - 409 in swim, 358 bike, 347 run, 347 overall, out of 2069

For my category - 50/55/48 and 48 total out of 231

So again, my bike is my weak point. But that's probably not a glaring weakness relatively speaking.

For both the bike and run I felt great - except my legs couldn't move faster. I need to work on speed over distance.

Like last time, my calf cramped, then when about to get out of the water, both of my legs cramped where I could barely walk. I'm not sure how to fix that.

Very interesting that you finished 347 with the other placings. You must have smoked the transitions.

I noticed 11 people within a 30 second range in the 5:21 finish group. Let's hear about the finish.

One of my team mates finished 14th overall, 2nd if you exclude the pros.

The pro that finished 2nd ran a sub 1:10 half in warm conditions coming off virtually the fastest bike time.

With heats, only the 30 something men whose last names start with A-K would be near me. There were a few of us but nothing special. I kicked it in and beat one guy but no great story.

Your friend is impressive!

Ah…forgot about wave starts.

 

[tri-man 47]

Waiting for age group results.

Official time was 27:31 , 8:51 pace

#415 of 1942 (If we call 14:00 pace walking then the last 500 participants were walkers)

In 109 (dry) heat? Really well, done, prosopis! I'm sure the hill work is beneficial. Way to go!!!

And: Impressive work, MAC and FUBAR! Very steady splits, FUBAR ..I don't see any signs of weakness there!

 

[Juxtatarot]

By the way, Prosopis, shouldn't you be setting PRs in the winter?!

 

[BassNBrew]

By the way, Prosopis, shouldn't you be setting PRs in the winter?!

He had a personal best for that event, not a pr.

So pros, when does the heat catch up with you in an event that hot? When it's ninety here, I can usually make it about 2 miles before it whips me, but that's training runs.