Ran a 10k in June (4 Viewers)

[pmbrown_22]

Forward the file - I'll adapt it. I'll PM you my email addy. One of the things I was going to do next year was to generate a team FFA race booklet with this kind of information in it along with driving directions, schedules, and such. I've even thought that perhaps renting a GPS tracker unit like this might be interesting - we can keep track of runners that way. Even if we don't keep track of the individual runner I figure we'll have two "team phones" that have GPS tracking enabled on them. Mine does that readily. That way we'll always know where the other van is. We will for sure be the most geeked out team out there. Nothing less for the FFA will do.

I still say we try and get a dedicated driver for each van and get 15 passenger vans. I think the spreading out room will be appreciated.

I think it should be noted that when I was looking at the start times of the teams I believe we will be starting later in the day. I expect a 2pm-3pm start or so. We should have plenty of time to make the journey to the start line.

File sent.I am in agreement with the Vans as that extra room will be nice. No need to be stepping on each other for 24 hrs.

The starting time late in the day is good, but I am more concerned with getting everyone either in Lexington or the Cincinnati area so that we make sure everyone is there and then go on down. I am thinking that a bunch of discussions can be openned up on FB for everyone to decide and give comment to everyone. By the way the 12th man is a pretty fast runner. I think he put his time down for 7:00 per mile for this years run. It should be good to have him in the corner.

As far as names go, does someone want to start a thread for the collective FFA. I don't have a whole lot of experience doing that so anyone want to give it a try?

 

[gruecd]

By the way the 12th man is a pretty fast runner. I think he put his time down for 7:00 per mile for this years run. It should be good to have him in the corner.

Ah, so he'll be the second-fastest runner on the team then.

 

[gruecd]

Is this mystery "12th man" going to join our FB group?

Also, I'm definitely in favor of the passenger vans. For sure. Not even open for discussion, IMHO.

And remember that a buddy of mine (who lives in Louisville) also has a team, and he's invited us to his post-race celebration. Dude knows how to party, so it should be fun.

 

[2Young2BBald]

By the way the 12th man is a pretty fast runner. I think he put his time down for 7:00 per mile for this years run. It should be good to have him in the corner.

Ah, so he'll be the second-fastest runner on the team then.

As long as #12 is taller than 5'6" I am still the shortest, yeeeeeeeeeeeessss!!!!!

 

[tri-man 47]

By the way the 12th man is a pretty fast runner. I think he put his time down for 7:00 per mile for this years run. It should be good to have him in the corner.

Ah, so he'll be the second-fastest runner on the team then.

As long as #12 is taller than 5'6" I am still the shortest, yeeeeeeeeeeeessss!!!!!

I'm pretty positive my claim-to-fame on the team is not in jeopardy.

 

[tri-man 47]

Tentative goal would be to do the long course Green Bay Triathlon (800-yard, 29M, 10K) on June 5, and then assuming that goes well, the High Cliff Triathlon (Half IM) a couple weeks later on June 18. That being said, I still have a LONG way to go before I can even start thinking about this stuff seriously.

Gruecd - coming off of Boston in mid-April, and not having a background with triathlons, the Half IM in mid-June is ambitious.

Is it just "ambitious," or is it "impossible" or "stupid?" Ambitious has never stopped me before. Frankly, stupid hasn't, either.

I hope people around here know better than to tell you anything is "impossible."

True dat. The key is that you'll have to make the commitment this winter ...building up your swimming ability and comfort, and getting in your time on the bike trainer. What would work would be to make these disciplines your priority for December and January. Let your running lax for a bit after the upcoming marathon, and just maintain a modest base until you have to get back on the formal marathon training schedule (certainly by February as the longer runs build up again). What you should find is that the swim and bike training (and run resting) puts you in just as good a position once February arrives. Then you'd have to keep up on the swimming and biking through late-winter/early spring and hit it hard again in mid-May. So: Ambitious.

 

[Sand]

By the way the 12th man is a pretty fast runner. I think he put his time down for 7:00 per mile for this years run. It should be good to have him in the corner.

Ah, so he'll be the second-fastest runner on the team then.

As long as #12 is taller than 5'6" I am still the shortest, yeeeeeeeeeeeessss!!!!!

I'm pretty positive my claim-to-fame on the team is not in jeopardy.

Damn, that's right. Pat, make sure to note we need to call early for a wheelchair accessible van.

 

[Dexter]

Turkish and I made up safe we picked up our race packet and about to start dinner. It's coooold up here.

 

[wraith5]

Is this mystery "12th man" going to join our FB group?Also, I'm definitely in favor of the passenger vans. For sure. Not even open for discussion, IMHO.And remember that a buddy of mine (who lives in Louisville) also has a team, and he's invited us to his post-race celebration. Dude knows how to party, so it should be fun.

And my mom's horse farm (about 11 miles NW of central Lexington) is open for meeting before the race and/or after the race.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Now that I have finished a half-marathon, I want to begin training now for next year's event. Unfortunately the few plans I have found online are only for the 16 weeks heading up to the event and start out relatively easy. I want to build on what I have already accomplished and not start over.Are there any 50 week plans out there to prepare? If not, can one off you experts provide some advice or suggest some workouts?The next question is what is a realistic goal from 1 year to the next? I ran this year in 1:57:00. Is 1:50:00 achievable? How about 1:44:00? I want a tough (but realistic goal).

The 50-week plan is you maintain a 10 mile run every week, or every other week, or two out every three weeks or whatever from now on. If you maintain the endurance to roll out of bed and do 10 miles, you'll crush your next half. Yes, 1:50 is absolutely achievable. 1:44 may be a little bit of a reach, but that depends on how the next year (!) goes.

 

[Darrinll40]

By the way the 12th man is a pretty fast runner. I think he put his time down for 7:00 per mile for this years run. It should be good to have him in the corner.

Ah, so he'll be the second-fastest runner on the team then.

As long as #12 is taller than 5'6" I am still the shortest, yeeeeeeeeeeeessss!!!!!

I'm pretty positive my claim-to-fame on the team is not in jeopardy.

Let's see, we have the fastest, the shortest, the oldest, and me, the slowest.

 

[Darrinll40]

Forward the file - I'll adapt it. I'll PM you my email addy. One of the things I was going to do next year was to generate a team FFA race booklet with this kind of information in it along with driving directions, schedules, and such. I've even thought that perhaps renting a GPS tracker unit like this might be interesting - we can keep track of runners that way. Even if we don't keep track of the individual runner I figure we'll have two "team phones" that have GPS tracking enabled on them. Mine does that readily. That way we'll always know where the other van is. We will for sure be the most geeked out team out there. Nothing less for the FFA will do.

I still say we try and get a dedicated driver for each van and get 15 passenger vans. I think the spreading out room will be appreciated.

I think it should be noted that when I was looking at the start times of the teams I believe we will be starting later in the day. I expect a 2pm-3pm start or so. We should have plenty of time to make the journey to the start line.

As far as names go, does someone want to start a thread for the collective FFA. I don't have a whole lot of experience doing that so anyone want to give it a try?

This seems to be a good idea, let the FFA name the team. At the least it should be interesting.

 

[prosopis]

Sorry haven't been around for a while. Just a quick update:Racing in the Iceman Cometh MTB event in Traverse City, MI Saturday.Wave: 25Start Time: 10:19amThe Iceman Cometh Challenge is a 27 mile point-to-point mountain bike race from Kalkaska to Traverse City, Michigan. 2008 Finish: 3:272009 Finish: 3:012010 Finish: I'm shooting for under 3 and hoping for 2:30

Awesome

 

[prosopis]

Turkish and I made up safe we picked up our race packet and about to start dinner. It's coooold up here.

Good luck guys.

 

[prosopis]

By the way the 12th man is a pretty fast runner. I think he put his time down for 7:00 per mile for this years run. It should be good to have him in the corner.

Ah, so he'll be the second-fastest runner on the team then.

As long as #12 is taller than 5'6" I am still the shortest, yeeeeeeeeeeeessss!!!!!

I'm pretty positive my claim-to-fame on the team is not in jeopardy.

Let's see, we have the fastest, the shortest, the oldest, and me, the slowest.

Maybe some year I will claim that spot.

 

[pmbrown_22]

By the way the 12th man is a pretty fast runner. I think he put his time down for 7:00 per mile for this years run. It should be good to have him in the corner.

Ah, so he'll be the second-fastest runner on the team then.

Notice that I did not say he would be the fastest. I know better. Who knows though, by this time next year, you will probably have gills can swim faster than you can run.Yes, he will be joining facebook as well. Like me, he has been holding out on facebook, but will be joining shortly. You guys will get along well with him. He loves to drink and knows how to have a good time.

Tri-Man - Sorry. No wheelchair access to our vans. We can pull you along the back and give you an umbrella in case of rain.

Really though, I think the vans are a done deal. I thought (maybe 2Y2BB) that he could get a discount on the rental or something like that.

I had completely forgotten about Wraith's moms house and crashing there.

Much to figure and plenty to talk about. We can take it one step at a time. Have a great weekend all.

 

[2Young2BBald]

By the way the 12th man is a pretty fast runner. I think he put his time down for 7:00 per mile for this years run. It should be good to have him in the corner.

Ah, so he'll be the second-fastest runner on the team then.

Notice that I did not say he would be the fastest. I know better. Who knows though, by this time next year, you will probably have gills can swim faster than you can run.Yes, he will be joining facebook as well. Like me, he has been holding out on facebook, but will be joining shortly. You guys will get along well with him. He loves to drink and knows how to have a good time.

Tri-Man - Sorry. No wheelchair access to our vans. We can pull you along the back and give you an umbrella in case of rain.

Really though, I think the vans are a done deal. I thought (maybe 2Y2BB) that he could get a discount on the rental or something like that.

I had completely forgotten about Wraith's moms house and crashing there.

Much to figure and plenty to talk about. We can take it one step at a time. Have a great weekend all.

Pops has a trench coat, he won't need the umbrella.Should be able to to get some kind of break on the vans. If renting them down there is an issue, I could grab one up here and drive it down with Dexter & TH.

 

[FUBAR]

Gave some thought to running 20m with friends on the trail today but I haven't gone more than 12 in the last few months, so that probably wouldn't be a good idea. Plus, the wife had an optometrist appointment at 9 so that took priority.

Instead, it was a 10 miler for me, figured I'd try to negative split it.

1- 7:24 (first mile was slightly downhill)

2- 8:20

3- 8:00

4- 7:46

5- 7:41

6- 7:31

7- 7:30

8- 7:01

9- 6:59

10- 7:17 (last 1/4 is a steep uphill)

Total 10M - 1:15:30

 

[gruecd]

BTW, you'll want to add this month's cover athlete from Triathlete Magazine, Angi Greene, to your stable of FB hottness.

Done.

 

[BassNBrew]

Tentative goal would be to do the long course Green Bay Triathlon (800-yard, 29M, 10K) on June 5, and then assuming that goes well, the High Cliff Triathlon (Half IM) a couple weeks later on June 18. That being said, I still have a LONG way to go before I can even start thinking about this stuff seriously.

Gruecd - coming off of Boston in mid-April, and not having a background with triathlons, the Half IM in mid-June is ambitious.

Is it just "ambitious," or is it "impossible" or "stupid?" Ambitious has never stopped me before. Frankly, stupid hasn't, either.

Given your history, I'd peg it just slightly harder than a piece of cake. Will this be a wet suit legal swim?Check out this link. This guy qualifies for Kona and does sub 10 hour ironmans on 10 hours of training per week. http://www.10-hours.com/about-marc_rubin_story.php

Not sure when your Boston training starts but if you can swim 2-3 times a week between now and the end of the year, you'll get your comfort level up on the swim and then can pretty much forget about it until after Boston (maybe swim once every two weeks). Last year in 8 weeks I went from not having swam in 20 years to an 18 min 750M swim in a tri which included some breast stroke and backstroke. Actually with coaching and focus this year, I basically duplicated the time of my fake swim the year prior. Figure on just training to get to the point that you can swim for 45 minutes and you'll be fine. The swim leg in these events is so short that it's not worth the effort to train hard on the swim unless you're looking to medal.

Given that you'll be in upper tier condition coming off Boston, the bike won't be an issue. I honestly think you could skip riding the bike until after Boston and not have it be an issue. The main goal here would be to work up to 3 hours on the bike for comfort reasons. I five weeks your long rides could be 20, 30, 40, 45, and 50. Add in one other shorter ride and you'll be fine. I went from never having ridden a road bike in Feb 07 to finishing in the upper 1/3 in the Assualt on Mt. Mitchell which was a 7hr 20min ride and I wasn't a marathoner.

No need to talk about the run other than to say work in some bricks to get used to running off the bike.

The main question is can you do physically activity for 5.5 hours. Given that you can knock out a marathon without breaking a sweat if you chose to, this shouldn't be an issue.

 

[gruecd]

Tentative goal would be to do the long course Green Bay Triathlon (800-yard, 29M, 10K) on June 5, and then assuming that goes well, the High Cliff Triathlon (Half IM) a couple weeks later on June 18. That being said, I still have a LONG way to go before I can even start thinking about this stuff seriously.

Gruecd - coming off of Boston in mid-April, and not having a background with triathlons, the Half IM in mid-June is ambitious.

Is it just "ambitious," or is it "impossible" or "stupid?" Ambitious has never stopped me before. Frankly, stupid hasn't, either.

Given your history, I'd peg it just slightly harder than a piece of cake. Will this be a wet suit legal swim?Check out this link. This guy qualifies for Kona and does sub 10 hour ironmans on 10 hours of training per week. http://www.10-hours.com/about-marc_rubin_story.php

Not sure when your Boston training starts but if you can swim 2-3 times a week between now and the end of the year, you'll get your comfort level up on the swim and then can pretty much forget about it until after Boston (maybe swim once every two weeks). Last year in 8 weeks I went from not having swam in 20 years to an 18 min 750M swim in a tri which included some breast stroke and backstroke. Actually with coaching and focus this year, I basically duplicated the time of my fake swim the year prior. Figure on just training to get to the point that you can swim for 45 minutes and you'll be fine. The swim leg in these events is so short that it's not worth the effort to train hard on the swim unless you're looking to medal.

Given that you'll be in upper tier condition coming off Boston, the bike won't be an issue. I honestly think you could skip riding the bike until after Boston and not have it be an issue. The main goal here would be to work up to 3 hours on the bike for comfort reasons. I five weeks your long rides could be 20, 30, 40, 45, and 50. Add in one other shorter ride and you'll be fine. I went from never having ridden a road bike in Feb 07 to finishing in the upper 1/3 in the Assualt on Mt. Mitchell which was a 7hr 20min ride and I wasn't a marathoner.

No need to talk about the run other than to say work in some bricks to get used to running off the bike.

The main question is can you do physically activity for 5.5 hours. Given that you can knock out a marathon without breaking a sweat if you chose to, this shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks, BNB. And yes, wetsuits are definitely allowed.Last double-digit pre-marathon run this morning. 13 miles at 7:48 pace. Time to shower and head up to my alma mater's football game.

 

[BassNBrew]

Gave some thought to running 20m with friends on the trail today but I haven't gone more than 12 in the last few months, so that probably wouldn't be a good idea. Plus, the wife had an optometrist appointment at 9 so that took priority. Instead, it was a 10 miler for me, figured I'd try to negative split it. 1- 7:24 (first mile was slightly downhill)2- 8:20 3- 8:004- 7:465- 7:416- 7:317- 7:308- 7:019- 6:5910- 7:17 (last 1/4 is a steep uphill)Total 10M - 1:15:30

You fast dudes make me hurt.1:28:53 (8'53 pace) for me last nite.1 - 8'482 - 8'493 - 8'404 - 8'475 - 9'08 (second guess my decision to go double digits)6 - 9'51 (major hill and the week was taking it's toll)7 - 8'48 (big downhill, felt some SLEET)8 - 8'59 (pouring rain and around 40 degrees)9 - 8'27 (soaked and wanted to get home)10 - 8'40 (stopped raining when I finished)Possibly pr for me a the 10 mile distance. Average hr was 139...it's all about based building right now. Weight down from 227 to 221 this week.

 

[BassNBrew]

Thanks, BNB. And yes, wetsuits are definitely allowed.

Last double-digit pre-marathon run this morning. 13 miles at 7:48 pace. Time to shower and head up to my alma mater's football game.

I don't mean to down play the accomplishment of a HIM (more a statement about your fitness level), but with a wetsuit you can stop swimming if you freak out or get tired and bob with zero effort. Heck, you could bring a thrmos and cup and stop for a coffee mid swim. You can always roll over on your back and back stroke at the same speed you could front crawl w/o a wet suit. Biggest issue will be getting used to the suit and finding the right fit. You don't want something that chokes you. You'll also want enough practice that you don't get claustraphobic in the thing.

 

[prosopis]

In an effort to do a structured training plan I have chosen to train for half marathon. I plugged my 8k time of 49:33 into Mcmillan calculator that was given to us by Gruecd http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl The paces look really slow but I am willing to do it as I am not having much success getting faster with my method.

I then went to runners world looking for a 1/2 marathon training program to use with the Mcmillan numbers. I can not find a free program. Looks like they all charge for the programs.

1) Does anyone have a link to a free program? ( I am going to check Higdon next)

2) Am I going about this right? (Using numbers from Mcmillan and plugging them into a program)

Thanks again for all the advice/help. This thread really is invaluable.

 

[prosopis]

In an effort to do a structured training plan I have chosen to train for half marathon. I plugged my 8k time of 49:33 into Mcmillan calculator that was given to us by Gruecd http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl The paces look really slow but I am willing to do it as I am not having much success getting faster with my method.

I then went to runners world looking for a 1/2 marathon training program to use with the Mcmillan numbers. I can not find a free program. Looks like they all charge for the programs.

1) Does anyone have a link to a free program? ( I am going to check Higdon next)

2) Am I going about this right? (Using numbers from Mcmillan and plugging them into a program)

Thanks again for all the advice/help. This thread really is invaluable.

I found this:http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

 

[tri-man 47]

The swim leg in these events is so short that it's not worth the effort to train hard on the swim unless you're looking to medal.Given that you'll be in upper tier condition coming off Boston, the bike won't be an issue. The main question is can you do physically activity for 5.5 hours. Given that you can knock out a marathon without breaking a sweat if you chose to, this shouldn't be an issue.

Oh, I disagree on all three counts! The swim leg in a half-IM is NOT "so short." As an open water swim with likely contact and sighting issues, it's more than just plodding through another 45 minute swim. You never 'win' a tri in the swim, but you can easily 'lose' it and have a tough, tough day.Biking 56 miles CAN be issue. That's roughly a 3 hour effort - following a long swim - and can drain the muscles of remaining energy. Knocking out a marathon is different than knocking out a half-IM. Marathons start slowly and with full control. Tri's, as you know, BnB, jump start right from the get-go. Running is my strength (not as strong as gruecd, of course), and my frustration with the half-IMs is that I haven't been able to get to the run leg with enough energy to really use my running skills. That's the challenge for a runner, even one with gruecd's talent.

 

[Sand]

The swim leg in these events is so short that it's not worth the effort to train hard on the swim unless you're looking to medal.Given that you'll be in upper tier condition coming off Boston, the bike won't be an issue. The main question is can you do physically activity for 5.5 hours. Given that you can knock out a marathon without breaking a sweat if you chose to, this shouldn't be an issue.

Oh, I disagree on all three counts! The swim leg in a half-IM is NOT "so short." As an open water swim with likely contact and sighting issues, it's more than just plodding through another 45 minute swim. You never 'win' a tri in the swim, but you can easily 'lose' it and have a tough, tough day.Biking 56 miles CAN be issue. That's roughly a 3 hour effort - following a long swim - and can drain the muscles of remaining energy. Knocking out a marathon is different than knocking out a half-IM. Marathons start slowly and with full control. Tri's, as you know, BnB, jump start right from the get-go. Running is my strength (not as strong as gruecd, of course), and my frustration with the half-IMs is that I haven't been able to get to the run leg with enough energy to really use my running skills. That's the challenge for a runner, even one with gruecd's talent.

I have to agree with tri-man here. The HIM swim is 1.2 miles. That is anything but short. And 56 miles on a bike is anything but easy - that is a long effing way to go.---On my end I did a 10 mile time trial this morning. Cold and windy - not ideal conditions. Managed ~21mph, which isn't great, but the wind and cold really knocked speed down. Most importantly I managed to average 270 watts over 28 minutes. I'm pretty darn happy with that (chump change for PSL and BnB, I'm sure)5 mile run later today.Have a good weekend guys!

 

[BassNBrew]

The swim leg in these events is so short that it's not worth the effort to train hard on the swim unless you're looking to medal.Given that you'll be in upper tier condition coming off Boston, the bike won't be an issue. The main question is can you do physically activity for 5.5 hours. Given that you can knock out a marathon without breaking a sweat if you chose to, this shouldn't be an issue.

Oh, I disagree on all three counts! The swim leg in a half-IM is NOT "so short." As an open water swim with likely contact and sighting issues, it's more than just plodding through another 45 minute swim. You never 'win' a tri in the swim, but you can easily 'lose' it and have a tough, tough day.Biking 56 miles CAN be issue. That's roughly a 3 hour effort - following a long swim - and can drain the muscles of remaining energy. Knocking out a marathon is different than knocking out a half-IM. Marathons start slowly and with full control. Tri's, as you know, BnB, jump start right from the get-go. Running is my strength (not as strong as gruecd, of course), and my frustration with the half-IMs is that I haven't been able to get to the run leg with enough energy to really use my running skills. That's the challenge for a runner, even one with gruecd's talent.

I have to agree with tri-man here. The HIM swim is 1.2 miles. That is anything but short. And 56 miles on a bike is anything but easy - that is a long effing way to go.---On my end I did a 10 mile time trial this morning. Cold and windy - not ideal conditions. Managed ~21mph, which isn't great, but the wind and cold really knocked speed down. Most importantly I managed to average 270 watts over 28 minutes. I'm pretty darn happy with that (chump change for PSL and BnB, I'm sure)5 mile run later today.Have a good weekend guys!

270 for a 1/2 an hour is huge. I'm surprised your speed was "only" 21 mph (which is very solid) because a 270 watt effort should have you just north of 25 mph sans the wind. You catch better conditions and get that bike setup honed in...you have the power to lay down some smoking times.

 

[Sand]

In an effort to do a structured training plan I have chosen to train for half marathon. I plugged my 8k time of 49:33 into Mcmillan calculator that was given to us by Gruecd http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl The paces look really slow but I am willing to do it as I am not having much success getting faster with my method.

I then went to runners world looking for a 1/2 marathon training program to use with the Mcmillan numbers. I can not find a free program. Looks like they all charge for the programs.

1) Does anyone have a link to a free program? ( I am going to check Higdon next)

2) Am I going about this right? (Using numbers from Mcmillan and plugging them into a program)

Thanks again for all the advice/help. This thread really is invaluable.

I found this:http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

Runner's World Smartcoach Great resource. You have to sign up with an email, but it is free and does provide what you are looking for, I think.

 

[Sand]

On my end I did a 10 mile time trial this morning. Cold and windy - not ideal conditions. Managed ~21mph, which isn't great, but the wind and cold really knocked speed down. Most importantly I managed to average 270 watts over 28 minutes. I'm pretty darn happy with that (chump change for PSL and BnB, I'm sure)5 mile run later today.Have a good weekend guys!

270 for a 1/2 an hour is huge. I'm surprised your speed was "only" 21 mph (which is very solid) because a 270 watt effort should have you just north of 25 mph sans the wind. You catch better conditions and get that bike setup honed in...you have the power to lay down some smoking times.

In better conditions I think I could have put out a bit more, I think. The wind and cold really affected speed and my effort. And I had zero in the way of setup. This wasn't the race to get aero geeky - it was more of a clubby, social thing. No aero gear at all besides clip on aerobars.Thanks for the note, though! Coming from you that is high praise.

 

[BassNBrew]

The swim leg in these events is so short that it's not worth the effort to train hard on the swim unless you're looking to medal.Given that you'll be in upper tier condition coming off Boston, the bike won't be an issue. The main question is can you do physically activity for 5.5 hours. Given that you can knock out a marathon without breaking a sweat if you chose to, this shouldn't be an issue.

Oh, I disagree on all three counts! The swim leg in a half-IM is NOT "so short." As an open water swim with likely contact and sighting issues, it's more than just plodding through another 45 minute swim. You never 'win' a tri in the swim, but you can easily 'lose' it and have a tough, tough day.Biking 56 miles CAN be issue. That's roughly a 3 hour effort - following a long swim - and can drain the muscles of remaining energy. Knocking out a marathon is different than knocking out a half-IM. Marathons start slowly and with full control. Tri's, as you know, BnB, jump start right from the get-go. Running is my strength (not as strong as gruecd, of course), and my frustration with the half-IMs is that I haven't been able to get to the run leg with enough energy to really use my running skills. That's the challenge for a runner, even one with gruecd's talent.

My counter argument is that Gru is a 200+ pounder running sub 7 min miles over 26 miles. There are only a few of us who can approach these numbers over a 5k distance. Knock 40 pounds off him and he's approaching closer to 6 min per mi paces. If you looked at my link above, there are guys doing Kona qualifying times on 10 hours per week of training. Look at that guys blog, he's only biking 3-4 hours per week. Of course this is due to his base, but Gru obviously has a huge base and is doing two marys in a month as I recall. I think you guys are overly discounting his fitness level.Personally I would trade off a 1/2 marathon for 56 miles on the bike any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The biking would take longer but would be much less effort. Considering the huge effort he's putting out on the run, the biking really weighs in the favor of the heavier person (vs. the run) on a flat or moderate course. As you know, you have sections on the bike where you can even coast which doesn't happen on the run. My biggest concern for him is getting a sore ### or other nagging pain from lack of time in the saddle. I'm pretty comfortable in saying that from an effort standpoint, 56 mi bike + 13.1 mile run is a least equal if not easier than a 26.2 mile run. I'll back that up by all the people you see knocking out 6-7 hour century bike rides, yet guys around here who have been training diligently all comment about how hard the last 6 miles of the mary are.Given my strong belief above, I'm only seeing Gru needing to add the swim to step up to this challenge coming off a Boston training cycle. Add in the wet suit and that we're only talking about 15% more time (swin relative to bike/run), his biggest issue is just not drowning. Anxiety, nerves, and swimming in a pack will be a bigger hurdle than the conditioning for him. It may not be sexy, but there's nothing illegal about rolling over on your back and backstroking it. It may take another 10 minutes to finish, but it's not going to ruin his race. At his size, I wouldn't be surprised if the wetsuit makes the swim 20-25% easier. At roughly 6' 4-5", he's going to be were wearing enough bouyant material that he'll look like a life raft.These thoughts are in reference to him finishing with a respectable time. If he's going to pursue a category podium as a primary objective then I would agree that he's being ambitious as he would need to push both the swim and bike efforts. I think he's closer comparsion wise to Lance coming off the bike to do a tri than a newbie coming off the couch setting a decent finishing time as a goal. If he was a smhuck like me (who would struggle to do a 4.5-5.0 hour marathon right now) attempting this, I would be more inclined to agree with you.

 

[BassNBrew]

On my end I did a 10 mile time trial this morning. Cold and windy - not ideal conditions. Managed ~21mph, which isn't great, but the wind and cold really knocked speed down. Most importantly I managed to average 270 watts over 28 minutes. I'm pretty darn happy with that (chump change for PSL and BnB, I'm sure)5 mile run later today.Have a good weekend guys!

270 for a 1/2 an hour is huge. I'm surprised your speed was "only" 21 mph (which is very solid) because a 270 watt effort should have you just north of 25 mph sans the wind. You catch better conditions and get that bike setup honed in...you have the power to lay down some smoking times.

In better conditions I think I could have put out a bit more, I think. The wind and cold really affected speed and my effort. And I had zero in the way of setup. This wasn't the race to get aero geeky - it was more of a clubby, social thing. No aero gear at all besides clip on aerobars.Thanks for the note, though! Coming from you that is high praise.

The cold cost you about a 1/2 mph, maybe more if you had a jacket-chute on. In theory on a flat course with no wind, it only takes 170 watts to net 21 mph. Add in a 6 mph headwind the whole way and that jumps to 270 watts.

 

[prosopis]

Today's run.

Using the Mcmillan calculator I did a long run at 11:38-12:38 pace. What constitutes a long run for me is another question. My longest has been 9.1. Today I did 5.62 at Mcmillans "long run" pace.

At first I thought it was way to slow and I was having a hard time keeping my pace above 11:38. As my run went on though I did start to feel it some. I would say this is the first time I have run at any distance where I thought I had the conversational pace going. My HR stayed stable and only started to go up at the end. I never had to walk and the only time my garmin beeped at me for going to slow was a drinking snafu. Otherwise all the beeps were telling me to slow down.

This run did have me feeling good at the end of it. I was thinking about some of the guys here. I am amazed that some of you can have the same experience at a sub 8 min as I have at 11:19 pace. I am going to check Sands link for a plan and try to incorporate the speeds mcmillan calculator gave me.

Here is my run any comments including criticism is welcomed.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/55739185

 

[prosopis]

Thanks for the link Sand. That is what I was thinking about. I am now holding a 16 wk training for a half marathon. I am deferring to you guys here as you all seem to have made far better progress then me. Having said that this plan looks slow and distances dont seem like much other then the long runs. I will probably eat those words in the future but that is how I feel about it now. My first easy run 11/8 is 2 miles@12:08. That does not seem like much?

These are the numbers I used for smart coach:

current race time 29:54 for a 5k- I got that from Mcmillan. The smart coach did not have an option for an 8k time. The 29:54 is what Mcmillan says I would do a 5k when using my 5 mile time of 49:33.

Training goal is half marathon

currently train 11-15 miles a week

how hard you want to train: moderate

long run day:Saturday

length of training schedule: 16 weeks

 

[Sand]

The cold cost you about a 1/2 mph, maybe more if you had a jacket-chute on. In theory on a flat course with no wind, it only takes 170 watts to net 21 mph. Add in a 6 mph headwind the whole way and that jumps to 270 watts.

Yeah - I get about a 5mph wind or so. Ever had those rides where you are working your butt off and look down to see you're going 14mph in the flats? Two of the three legs were like that. The third leg (the downwind leg) was sheltered by trees and there wasn't much wind there at all.Not worried about that, though. This ride was all about wattage. My only concern was the accuracy of the power meter. It was calibrated and rezeroed itself during downhills, so I know it was spot on. The ride bumped my critical power from 250 to 262 (and I have done 10 mile efforts at 24+mph), so it isn't out of the ballpark.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I found this:

http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

This topic has come up before. I honestly don't like Higdon's HM plans. A few other posters in this thread feel the same way. The problem is that he maxes you out at only 10 miles. If you're new to this distance, you really need to do at least one 13-miler before race day. This isn't like training for a marathon where nobody trains all the way out to the full race distance on account of injury risk and recovery considerations. For a half, training to at least 13 should be standard IMO. (If you had several HMs under your belt already, then maxing out at 10 would probably be okay, but then you wouldn't be using a "novice" program).

 

[prosopis]

I found this:

http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

This topic has come up before. I honestly don't like Higdon's HM plans. A few other posters in this thread feel the same way. The problem is that he maxes you out at only 10 miles. If you're new to this distance, you really need to do at least one 13-miler before race day. This isn't like training for a marathon where nobody trains all the way out to the full race distance on account of injury risk and recovery considerations. For a half, training to at least 13 should be standard IMO. (If you had several HMs under your belt already, then maxing out at 10 would probably be okay, but then you wouldn't be using a "novice" program).

I am going with the runners world smart coach. The longest run in that is 11 miles week 14 and 15. I am not running a half in 16 weeks I am just looking to do a structured training to hopefully up my speed. If I saw a half in the spring I would certainly think about it.

 

[2Young2BBald]

I found this:

http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

This topic has come up before. I honestly don't like Higdon's HM plans. A few other posters in this thread feel the same way. The problem is that he maxes you out at only 10 miles. If you're new to this distance, you really need to do at least one 13-miler before race day. This isn't like training for a marathon where nobody trains all the way out to the full race distance on account of injury risk and recovery considerations. For a half, training to at least 13 should be standard IMO. (If you had several HMs under your belt already, then maxing out at 10 would probably be okay, but then you wouldn't be using a "novice" program).

I am going with the runners world smart coach. The longest run in that is 11 miles week 14 and 15. I am not running a half in 16 weeks I am just looking to do a structured training to hopefully up my speed. If I saw a half in the spring I would certainly think about it.

I think you missed a question in the post above.... It goes something like this: Why aren't you running a 1/2 in 16 weeks? You have the plan, why not use it? Now go find a half in the spring.

 

[Darrinll40]

In an effort to do a structured training plan I have chosen to train for half marathon. I plugged my 8k time of 49:33 into Mcmillan calculator that was given to us by Gruecd http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl The paces look really slow but I am willing to do it as I am not having much success getting faster with my method.

I then went to runners world looking for a 1/2 marathon training program to use with the Mcmillan numbers. I can not find a free program. Looks like they all charge for the programs.

1) Does anyone have a link to a free program? ( I am going to check Higdon next)

2) Am I going about this right? (Using numbers from Mcmillan and plugging them into a program)

Thanks again for all the advice/help. This thread really is invaluable.

I found this:http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

Runner's World Smartcoach Great resource. You have to sign up with an email, but it is free and does provide what you are looking for, I think.

They want 130 bucks to join. I will have to find an alternative.After working Mon-Thur this week I had to call off for Friday, because I was very sore in the surgery area. I have been talking it real easy for the last two days and plan to continue that tomorrow. My next appointment at the docs is on Wednesday, It has now been 4 weeks since I have run. To be honest keeping the weight down has not been very easy.

 

[prosopis]

I found this:

http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

This topic has come up before. I honestly don't like Higdon's HM plans. A few other posters in this thread feel the same way. The problem is that he maxes you out at only 10 miles. If you're new to this distance, you really need to do at least one 13-miler before race day. This isn't like training for a marathon where nobody trains all the way out to the full race distance on account of injury risk and recovery considerations. For a half, training to at least 13 should be standard IMO. (If you had several HMs under your belt already, then maxing out at 10 would probably be okay, but then you wouldn't be using a "novice" program).

I am going with the runners world smart coach. The longest run in that is 11 miles week 14 and 15. I am not running a half in 16 weeks I am just looking to do a structured training to hopefully up my speed. If I saw a half in the spring I would certainly think about it.

I think you missed a question in the post above.... It goes something like this: Why aren't you running a 1/2 in 16 weeks? You have the plan, why not use it? Now go find a half in the spring.

Sadly it comes down to cash. I would attempt the half here in Tucson 12/10 if I had the cash. I may have the cash come spring though

 

[prosopis]

In an effort to do a structured training plan I have chosen to train for half marathon. I plugged my 8k time of 49:33 into Mcmillan calculator that was given to us by Gruecd http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl The paces look really slow but I am willing to do it as I am not having much success getting faster with my method.

I then went to runners world looking for a 1/2 marathon training program to use with the Mcmillan numbers. I can not find a free program. Looks like they all charge for the programs.

1) Does anyone have a link to a free program? ( I am going to check Higdon next)

2) Am I going about this right? (Using numbers from Mcmillan and plugging them into a program)

Thanks again for all the advice/help. This thread really is invaluable.

I found this:http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

Runner's World Smartcoach Great resource. You have to sign up with an email, but it is free and does provide what you are looking for, I think.

They want 130 bucks to join. I will have to find an alternative.After working Mon-Thur this week I had to call off for Friday, because I was very sore in the surgery area. I have been talking it real easy for the last two days and plan to continue that tomorrow. My next appointment at the docs is on Wednesday, It has now been 4 weeks since I have run. To be honest keeping the weight down has not been very easy.

The smart coach I found was free. I believe it was under tools on the home page. You have to scroll down some to find it. It is on the left hand side of the home page.

 

[tri-man 47]

BnB - I guess gruecd's going to have to do the Half-IM to settle the debate!

Prosopis - think about how far you came this year, including the races you did. Extending further to a half-marathon is achievable. Give it a go! My BIL did his first-ever half-marathon in August, 2009. He then pushed further and did his first marathon this October. A few years ago he never would have dreamed that he could achieve those goals. You never know until you try! Use the training for the half, but then give serious consideration to finding a spring race. I'm sure the race stalkers here will be happy to find one for you. But if nothing else, if you can stay disciplined on the training plan, that's still a good accomplishment. (But ya gotta race to do the ever-popular race report!)

 

[2Young2BBald]

I found this:

http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

This topic has come up before. I honestly don't like Higdon's HM plans. A few other posters in this thread feel the same way. The problem is that he maxes you out at only 10 miles. If you're new to this distance, you really need to do at least one 13-miler before race day. This isn't like training for a marathon where nobody trains all the way out to the full race distance on account of injury risk and recovery considerations. For a half, training to at least 13 should be standard IMO. (If you had several HMs under your belt already, then maxing out at 10 would probably be okay, but then you wouldn't be using a "novice" program).

I am going with the runners world smart coach. The longest run in that is 11 miles week 14 and 15. I am not running a half in 16 weeks I am just looking to do a structured training to hopefully up my speed. If I saw a half in the spring I would certainly think about it.

I think you missed a question in the post above.... It goes something like this: Why aren't you running a 1/2 in 16 weeks? You have the plan, why not use it? Now go find a half in the spring.

Sadly it comes down to cash. I would attempt the half here in Tucson 12/10 if I had the cash. I may have the cash come spring though

In most cases, the earlier you pay, the cheaper it is. It will only go up from here.

 

[Darrinll40]

In an effort to do a structured training plan I have chosen to train for half marathon. I plugged my 8k time of 49:33 into Mcmillan calculator that was given to us by Gruecd http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl The paces look really slow but I am willing to do it as I am not having much success getting faster with my method.

I then went to runners world looking for a 1/2 marathon training program to use with the Mcmillan numbers. I can not find a free program. Looks like they all charge for the programs.

1) Does anyone have a link to a free program? ( I am going to check Higdon next)

2) Am I going about this right? (Using numbers from Mcmillan and plugging them into a program)

Thanks again for all the advice/help. This thread really is invaluable.

I found this:http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

Runner's World Smartcoach Great resource. You have to sign up with an email, but it is free and does provide what you are looking for, I think.

They want 130 bucks to join. I will have to find an alternative.After working Mon-Thur this week I had to call off for Friday, because I was very sore in the surgery area. I have been talking it real easy for the last two days and plan to continue that tomorrow. My next appointment at the docs is on Wednesday, It has now been 4 weeks since I have run. To be honest keeping the weight down has not been very easy.

Opps, I guess I was trying to sign up for the marathon challenge accidentally. I found the correct link to sign up for the forums and the coach.

 

[Sand]

In an effort to do a structured training plan I have chosen to train for half marathon. I plugged my 8k time of 49:33 into Mcmillan calculator that was given to us by Gruecd http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl The paces look really slow but I am willing to do it as I am not having much success getting faster with my method.

I then went to runners world looking for a 1/2 marathon training program to use with the Mcmillan numbers. I can not find a free program. Looks like they all charge for the programs.

1) Does anyone have a link to a free program? ( I am going to check Higdon next)

2) Am I going about this right? (Using numbers from Mcmillan and plugging them into a program)

Thanks again for all the advice/help. This thread really is invaluable.

I found this:http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

Runner's World Smartcoach Great resource. You have to sign up with an email, but it is free and does provide what you are looking for, I think.

They want 130 bucks to join. I will have to find an alternative.After working Mon-Thur this week I had to call off for Friday, because I was very sore in the surgery area. I have been talking it real easy for the last two days and plan to continue that tomorrow. My next appointment at the docs is on Wednesday, It has now been 4 weeks since I have run. To be honest keeping the weight down has not been very easy.

I'm not seeing that at all. I have always had access to that and have never paid a cent. Make sure you are going to Smartcoach and not the premium Training Peaks logger. I believe that is pay.

 

[Darrinll40]

In an effort to do a structured training plan I have chosen to train for half marathon. I plugged my 8k time of 49:33 into Mcmillan calculator that was given to us by Gruecd http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl The paces look really slow but I am willing to do it as I am not having much success getting faster with my method.

I then went to runners world looking for a 1/2 marathon training program to use with the Mcmillan numbers. I can not find a free program. Looks like they all charge for the programs.

1) Does anyone have a link to a free program? ( I am going to check Higdon next)

2) Am I going about this right? (Using numbers from Mcmillan and plugging them into a program)

Thanks again for all the advice/help. This thread really is invaluable.

I found this:http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm

Does that appear to be good? I seem to remember a free one where you could plug in what days you would do the long runs on but I dont recall where.

Runner's World Smartcoach Great resource. You have to sign up with an email, but it is free and does provide what you are looking for, I think.

They want 130 bucks to join. I will have to find an alternative.After working Mon-Thur this week I had to call off for Friday, because I was very sore in the surgery area. I have been talking it real easy for the last two days and plan to continue that tomorrow. My next appointment at the docs is on Wednesday, It has now been 4 weeks since I have run. To be honest keeping the weight down has not been very easy.

I'm not seeing that at all. I have always had access to that and have never paid a cent. Make sure you are going to Smartcoach and not the premium Training Peaks logger. I believe that is pay.

I found the right one. I am trying to keep my self motivated and enthused by reading your posts, but I have to tell you it is hard not being able to get out there. Pretty much all I do is work and sit around watching tv shows and movies.

 

[prosopis]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://www.lostdutchmanmarathon.org/

 

[wraith5]

10 miles at 8:59s today w/167 ave HR (it's now a theme - my HR is running too high). Below 32 degrees for the whole run.

I'm really hoping the HR was an issue of being tired - we stayed at my in-laws last night and I didn't sleep very well. With some solid nights of sleep between now and Saturdays race i'm hoping I can keep my ave HR below 170 for at least 16-18 miles.

 

[Darrinll40]

Anyone looking for a nice marathon to try and qualify for Boston can look into the Jacksonville Bank Marathon.

Steve and I ran the half there 3 years ago and it was coll and flat. Supposedly the marathon course is on of the flattest around and it is run on Dec 19 so it will be very cool in Jacksonville. This was the half where I pulled off my miracle 1:56:30.

 

[Sand]

I found the right one. I am trying to keep my self motivated and enthused by reading your posts, but I have to tell you it is hard not being able to get out there. Pretty much all I do is work and sit around watching tv shows and movies.

Well, given the choice between your surgery and having it go untreated what you had done will pay off big time. It sucks. I popped an ACL a number of years ago. It sucked. But it passes and you'll be back pretty soon. In the long run it is a small blip.----

Looks like Dexter and Turkishharem finished the Iceman. Good going, guys. I look forward to the race reports.