Ran a 10k in June (9 Viewers)

[Sand]

Need some advice. My running right now is kind of rudderless, meaning I have no real direction or objective to it other than to just get out and run. I decided to do a HM training course and am trying to decide which one I should do

Novice 2 or

Intermediate?

I'm leaning toward the intermediate schedule. I can handle the distances, at least up to week 4-5 now just have never really pushed myself.

I think you've answered your own question. If the distances don't bother you, go for it. Add mileage as necessary to provide the training load you need.---

On my end, nothing much going on this weekend. Stayed off my twinged/sore calf and didn't run. I did rack up 3:30 or so on the bike on four rides (~50 miles and 2800ft. of climbing). Two of those were trail-a-bike rides on my MTB with knobbies. I tell you going 13-14mph is some serious work with a 280lb rig.

My last ride tonight was a nice 15 mile evening ride with 850ft. of climbing. 225w and 19mph average. Maybe one of these days I'll hit PSL's vaunted 20-21mph average speed rides.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Did 8 miles yesterday at 8:58/mile pace. Felt okay after my 5K race the day before. Hamstrings a little tight though.

Gotta love that its 5:30 and already finished my 3 mile recovery run today. Just took it easy and did it at 9:35/mile pace.

If you are in the northeast, the heat is coming. Upper 90s is on tap for Wednesday and Thursday. Get your runs in now and use those as days off!

 

[Ned]

The Arc Corner Monument marks the point where PA and DE meet at the base of the arc in the DE state line.

Wow - y'all really go all out on monuments...

 

[Ned]

Need some advice. My running right now is kind of rudderless, meaning I have no real direction or objective to it other than to just get out and run. I decided to do a HM training course and am trying to decide which one I should do

Novice 2 or

Intermediate?

I'm leaning toward the intermediate schedule. I can handle the distances, at least up to week 4-5 now just have never really pushed myself. Novice 2 is probably closer to what I do now and I just don't want to get bored with it. Running 400's would require me to find someplace to run them, local HS is about 6 miles away so time becomes a factor in the mornings. Any thoughts or suggestions?

This is the easiest question ever. If you feel rudderless and you're looking for a spark, don't pick the plan that already puts you on week 5. Do the one that pushes you and introduces new stuff to your training routine. You don't say whether you're actually planning to run a HM or not -- it's not that hard to incorporate speedwork into your schedule even if you're not really training for anything in particular. Maybe the intermediate program gives you some ideas that can become a new normal for you.You're relatively new to this thread, but if you're shopping for HM programs and looking for an itch to scratch, you really need to read Pete Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning. This book has been referenced a million times in this tread. Don't be put off by the title. This book is incredibly useful for people who might never run a single marathon ever. Pfitz does a stellar job explaining the whys and hows of various types of training, obviously with an eye toward 26.2, but it all carries over to other distances. If you buy this book and read the first several chapters and don't feel like you got your money's worth, PM me and I will send you a check to cover the $20 or so that you spent on it. Seriously.

On the 400s, you can get by without a track if you have a Garmin or can find a marked 400m section of road. Of course a track is better, but we all have to make do sometimes.

Spot on. I do my intervals in our neighborhood since all of the HS tracks around here are gated with no public access.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Motor City Triathlon - Olympic Triathlon Race Report

Day started off just fine. I have been waking up 20 minutes earlier than the last few seasons and it seems to make me a lot more relaxed. The radar was really sketchy and I left for the event thinking storms would either delay things or have the event cancelled all together. This event is a bit different than most tris as it has two separate transition areas, versus a single area. We stopped at T2 to drop off our run gear (placed my stuff carefully in a trash bag to keep it dry if it did rain). Headed out to find parking, which was tough as the huge area used for parking for this event is still tied up with all off the stuff used for the Detroit Grand Prix. Parked the car and starting getting the rest of my stuff ready to head to T1. Grabbed for my Garmin and dropped it, face first, on the pavement shattering the face. ####! Now I couldn't wear it on the swim, so I took it off the watch band and put it on the bike, chucking the watch band in the car in anger (nice job here, dummy, no you don't have the watch for the run = no HR data #### times ten!!!!).

Rode my bike over to the beach and T1 to set up and was promptly met by Dexter who let me know "the kid's triathlon was yesterday" (he must have stayed up all night thinking of that zinger). Set up my area and quickly realized what I done with the Garmin band. Oh well, I'll just wear the HR strap on the run for looks. Got to the beach and chilled for about a 1/2 hour before the start. My Olympic PR is 2:30:24.

1,500 Meter Swim: I set my Oly PR on this course in 2010 with a swim of 29:05 and my Oly swim PR was 28:16. Was started with an in the water start. I stayed right, towards the front to stay out of the thrashing, but still get out fast. This worked very well. I had very little contact out to the turn at the 500 meter mark. I sited great too. Only issue I ran into on this leg of the course was a thick seaweed bed. I had to skim the top of the water to get over it and ended up wearing some along the way. I took the turn into the current perfectly, staying wide and allowing the current to push me around the buoy. The next leg is about 750 meters with the current. This is a counter-clockwise course and I right side breathe, making siting a bit difficult in the past. I got lucky. I had a guy on my right alternating between breast stroke and crawl who I could tell was siting well. I let him do the siting work for around 500 meters on this leg, only siting around 5 times. Turned for home, which was a 30 degree leg back to start against the current and I could see the current pushing the seaweed below against me. All the swim training this winter paid off. I was very strong here, passing lots of swimmer, some stopping to stand about neck deep as they weren't going anywhere against the current. Official time was 25:57, but for some reason they did not have a timing mat at the beach. The race clock just ticked over 25 as I was coming across the swim in area, before about a 75 yard run in to T1 where the mat was. Huge swim PR for me. Fastest average 100s of any swim distance, ever. Over 3 minutes faster than the last time I raced this course is amazing too. And, I came out of the water breathing fine and with a smile for my wife (compared to my typical anerobic and wanting to puke). I ended up 51st out of 180 men on the swim. This is one of the most competitive Oly events in the state so I am darn excited about the swim.

T1: Due to the double transitions, this is always a slow one as you have to pack all your gear in a bag so that it can be brought to T2 at the end of the event. I was real slow, struggling to get my wetsuit off and in the bag. 1:44 total time.

Bike: I averaged 21.9 MPH on this course 2 years under perfect conditions. Yesterday was a bit less than perfect and I have bike around 400 miles less this year than I had then. Pretty uneventful bike. The air was soupy with storms and heat around the area. Averaged 19.9 and was slowed by some wind on the final loop of 4 on the course. I did have the Garmin for the ride and my HR stayed around 163 the whole time. This is higher than most times I bike. Also felt crampy towards the end, so I took 2 Endurolytes to set up for the run.

T2: 59 seconds. One of the faster transitions on the board for the men, but it could have been about 10 seconds faster. Putting my stuff under a garbage bag, worried about rain, made it messy get my shoes out and I stepped on the heel of my left one, which lost me some time.

Run: :X Holy #### I am sweating and the breeze on the bike hid how hot it was getting. Not having the Garmin was freaking me out. I was passing guys from the AGs below that swam started 5 minutes ahead of me, so I was feeling OK. Just past the mile mark the was a small climb up a foot bridge that twinged the heck out of my thighs. No cramps, but close. Changed to a shuffle run to keep from cramping. On queue, the sun came out to mash up with the 80%+ humidity. No shade anywhere on the course. At the turn for this two loop course, I popped three more Endurolytes. Man do these work. I have no doubt I would have seized without them. The next loop I got passed a lot. I was breathing OK, but the legs were barely turning over. Got through the 10K without walking, other than a couple water stops, but MAN was I slow. Total time for the run was 58:57, my slowest Oly run by about 4 minutes.

Total time: 2:36:40, my 2nd fastest Oly of the 5 I've done. Much better than expected, but wish I could have had a better run. Probably still wouldn't have PRd, but might have gotten close. Not sure what the Garmin would have done for me, but am thinking I would have gotten a little more out of the run with it. Speaking of which, my wife let me know she didn't get me anything for father's day (no biggie, we aren't big on gifts for any occasion). I let her know she did and that I would be picking up the Garmin 910XT she got me some time this week to replace the broken 310XT.

 

[AcerFC]

just found this 48 page paper on this and other endurance related testing topics. I have to print this and read it later, looks to be very cool stuff.

Pg. 12: "Connecting cardio-pulmonary function to muscular work'...the lungs, heart and circulation should be thought of as a single apparatus for the transfer of oxygen and carbon dioxide between the atmosphere and the working tissues.'" Henderson, 1929

Love it.

-----

eta: My son ordered the Interactive Road ID for me for Father's Day. With it comes a $1 off code for others that are interested ...the code can be used up to 20 times over the next month. So if anyone needs a tiny nudge, here's the code: ThanksChris15430460

Thanks. I took advantage of this. Saved on shipping. Appreciated

 

[AcerFC]

ran 5.1 miles today...longest run of my life!!! they were 5.1 slow miles, but completed nonetheless. hit a bit of a wall at about 3.5 miles, but i did a little self-check and decided my legs felt really good and i was fine cardio-wise, so it was just a mental thing. once i figured that part out, i was great the rest of the way in.

Nice job

 

[AcerFC]

Nice job 2 young

 

[Ned]

Total time: 2:36:40, my 2nd fastest Oly of the 5 I've done. Much better than expected, but wish I could have had a better run. Probably still wouldn't have PRd, but might have gotten close. Not sure what the Garmin would have done for me, but am thinking I would have gotten a little more out of the run with it. Speaking of which, my wife let me know she didn't get me anything for father's day (no biggie, we aren't big on gifts for any occasion). I let her know she did and that I would be picking up the Garmin 910XT she got me some time this week to replace the broken 310XT.

Sounds like a ton of fun. Good work! How you guys manage these swims blows me away.Admit it - you smashed the 310 on purpose so you could get the new toy.

 

[AcerFC]

Question for guys that do tris.

Im still trying to decide whether to sign up for one. What is the breakdown of your training in relationship to run, bike, swim

Im really getting used to my running training and would love to do a marathon. Just got an email about Hartford on Oct 13th. If I do the Tri, will it hamper my ability to train for Hartford?

Im also not looking to ruin my marriage. My wife loves that I am fit again and healthy but she hates long runs that take me out of the picture most of the day. Im trying to juggle everything and be most time efficient.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Great racing guys.

2YBB - Great Oly. I am amazed of how you guys can do these things. Especially in the heat like that. That has got to be difficult to get to the run and have to go through that.

-----------

Nothing for me this weekend again and probably won't be running on the weekend. On the plus side, I did kind of cross train by packing up about 50 boxes and transporting them all over the house.

I am anxious to get the move over with to start getting back into a nice routine. Along with that, I will be running on all new territory so I am excited about covering new ground as well.

Have a great day all.

 

[sho nuff]

Great race 2 young...and "congrats" on the father's day gift.

My wife and kids got me some great things for training.

The kids got me a box of Cracker Barrell Pancake mix to carb up.

Wife just had a note that told me to buy more running socks and a new pair of shoes.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Question for guys that do tris.Im still trying to decide whether to sign up for one. What is the breakdown of your training in relationship to run, bike, swimIm really getting used to my running training and would love to do a marathon. Just got an email about Hartford on Oct 13th. If I do the Tri, will it hamper my ability to train for Hartford?Im also not looking to ruin my marriage. My wife loves that I am fit again and healthy but she hates long runs that take me out of the picture most of the day. Im trying to juggle everything and be most time efficient.

In my opinion, it helps. My aerobic fitness took off once I started swimming. No matter what I do now, I am never really out of breath. My legs go way before my lungs. And, it allows for forced cross training, taking the strain of just running out of the mix. When I am sticking to a true tri training regimen, its 6 workouts a week, 2 of each discipline. I like doing brick work, more than one workout back to back. Traditional bricks are bike/run combos, but I mix things up and do some swim/run bricks as well. As for the impact on your marriage, tris are way more spectator friendly. My wife loves coming to watch and sherpa. In fact, shes taken up Duathlons and races these when they are offered as part of the tri events.

 

[sho nuff]

Question for guys that do tris.Im still trying to decide whether to sign up for one. What is the breakdown of your training in relationship to run, bike, swimIm really getting used to my running training and would love to do a marathon. Just got an email about Hartford on Oct 13th. If I do the Tri, will it hamper my ability to train for Hartford?Im also not looking to ruin my marriage. My wife loves that I am fit again and healthy but she hates long runs that take me out of the picture most of the day. Im trying to juggle everything and be most time efficient.

In my opinion, it helps. My aerobic fitness took off once I started swimming. No matter what I do now, I am never really out of breath. My legs go way before my lungs. And, it allows for forced cross training, taking the strain of just running out of the mix. When I am sticking to a true tri training regimen, its 6 workouts a week, 2 of each discipline. I like doing brick work, more than one workout back to back. Traditional bricks are bike/run combos, but I mix things up and do some swim/run bricks as well. As for the impact on your marriage, tris are way more spectator friendly. My wife loves coming to watch and sherpa. In fact, shes taken up Duathlons and races these when they are offered as part of the tri events.

I found one that I may be trying next year...very short and simple just to get me to see if I would like it...http://team-magic.com/events/oldhickorylake/info.html#courseHave a friend doing this next week...I am not close to ready for such a thing so will probably give it a go next year.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Question for guys that do tris.

Im still trying to decide whether to sign up for one. What is the breakdown of your training in relationship to run, bike, swim

Im really getting used to my running training and would love to do a marathon. Just got an email about Hartford on Oct 13th. If I do the Tri, will it hamper my ability to train for Hartford?

Im also not looking to ruin my marriage. My wife loves that I am fit again and healthy but she hates long runs that take me out of the picture most of the day. Im trying to juggle everything and be most time efficient.

In my opinion, it helps. My aerobic fitness took off once I started swimming. No matter what I do now, I am never really out of breath. My legs go way before my lungs. And, it allows for forced cross training, taking the strain of just running out of the mix. When I am sticking to a true tri training regimen, its 6 workouts a week, 2 of each discipline. I like doing brick work, more than one workout back to back. Traditional bricks are bike/run combos, but I mix things up and do some swim/run bricks as well. As for the impact on your marriage, tris are way more spectator friendly. My wife loves coming to watch and sherpa. In fact, shes taken up Duathlons and races these when they are offered as part of the tri events.

I found one that I may be trying next year...very short and simple just to get me to see if I would like it...http://team-magic.co...nfo.html#course

Have a friend doing this next week...I am not close to ready for such a thing so will probably give it a go next year.

Go watch your friend, or even better, volunteer. I have volunteered a few times and you learn so much watching others. Tris are way more spectator friendly than running events and the woman's tri suit are awesome.

 

[AcerFC]

Question for guys that do tris.Im still trying to decide whether to sign up for one. What is the breakdown of your training in relationship to run, bike, swimIm really getting used to my running training and would love to do a marathon. Just got an email about Hartford on Oct 13th. If I do the Tri, will it hamper my ability to train for Hartford?Im also not looking to ruin my marriage. My wife loves that I am fit again and healthy but she hates long runs that take me out of the picture most of the day. Im trying to juggle everything and be most time efficient.

In my opinion, it helps. My aerobic fitness took off once I started swimming. No matter what I do now, I am never really out of breath. My legs go way before my lungs. And, it allows for forced cross training, taking the strain of just running out of the mix. When I am sticking to a true tri training regimen, its 6 workouts a week, 2 of each discipline. I like doing brick work, more than one workout back to back. Traditional bricks are bike/run combos, but I mix things up and do some swim/run bricks as well. As for the impact on your marriage, tris are way more spectator friendly. My wife loves coming to watch and sherpa. In fact, shes taken up Duathlons and races these when they are offered as part of the tri events.

Thanks for the input

 

[gruecd]

Freshness over fitness for short races

Probably should've read this before running 15 last Sunday, 18 on the trail on Tuesday, and then trying to race a half marathon on Saturday.... Made the 5-hour drive to Duluth on Friday afternoon, getting there around 6 PM. Grabbed some pizza and a couple of beers, and hit the sack around 9 PM. Stayed in an on-campus apartment at UMD, which was good for the pocketbook, but not so good for the sleep, since it was warm and muggy, and there was no A/C. Up at 4 AM, eat a few slices of banana bread, and on the shuttle to the start line, getting there a little after 5:00. Watched the start of the men's and women's USA Half Marathon Championships (Kara ) before finally toeing the line and getting started at 6:45.It wasn't horribly warm (mid-60s) but it was hella humid, and my legs felt heavy from the start. Definitely not recovered from the two long runs, and I'm sure the long drive didn't help, either. First 5K was 21:12, and it felt way harder than that. Hit 10K in 42:45 and 10M in 1:08:46, so at least I was staying pretty consistent in the low 6:50s. Felt like crap, wanted to stop and walk a bunch of times, but reminded myself that I better learn to HTFU if I'm gonna run 50 ####### miles this November. Got a bit of a burst, and knocked out the last 5K in 21:14, finishing in exactly 1:30:00, nowhere near my PR, but still a solid effort, all things considered.This half is a flat, fast course, and if the weather is right, it's definitely a place to PR. I'll go back next year properly prepared.

 

[gruecd]

Ivan - Great race. Congrats on the 2nd-place AG and the PR!!

S/C - Well-done on the 5K. Nice job by your boys, too!

Ned - Good running, and cool pics. Maybe I'll snap a few pics when I go back to the Ice Age Trail on Saturday.

2Young - Nice racing, especially impressed by that swim time. Wow. Sorry about that neck-high water being a foot over your head....

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Good job sticking it out, gruecd. I'm looking forward to reading more about your training for the 50 miler.

 

[Ned]

Good job sticking it out, gruecd. I'm looking forward to reading more about your training for the 50 miler.

1:30 is so stinkin' fast. Running that sort of time on a less than stellar day is badass.I'd love to see some trail pics too. Love this stuff...

 

[gruecd]

1:30 is so stinkin' fast. Running that sort of time on a less than stellar day is badass.

What's depressing is that I ran two of them back-to-back when I went sub-3 last October. Granted, I was properly trained and tapered, and the weather was perfect, but still...

 

[Hang 10]

Freshness over fitness for short races

Probably should've read this before running 15 last Sunday, 18 on the trail on Tuesday, and then trying to race a half marathon on Saturday.... Made the 5-hour drive to Duluth on Friday afternoon, getting there around 6 PM. Grabbed some pizza and a couple of beers, and hit the sack around 9 PM. Stayed in an on-campus apartment at UMD, which was good for the pocketbook, but not so good for the sleep, since it was warm and muggy, and there was no A/C. Up at 4 AM, eat a few slices of banana bread, and on the shuttle to the start line, getting there a little after 5:00. Watched the start of the men's and women's USA Half Marathon Championships (Kara ) before finally toeing the line and getting started at 6:45.It wasn't horribly warm (mid-60s) but it was hella humid, and my legs felt heavy from the start. Definitely not recovered from the two long runs, and I'm sure the long drive didn't help, either. First 5K was 21:12, and it felt way harder than that. Hit 10K in 42:45 and 10M in 1:08:46, so at least I was staying pretty consistent in the low 6:50s. Felt like crap, wanted to stop and walk a bunch of times, but reminded myself that I better learn to HTFU if I'm gonna run 50 ####### miles this November. Got a bit of a burst, and knocked out the last 5K in 21:14, finishing in exactly 1:30:00, nowhere near my PR, but still a solid effort, all things considered.This half is a flat, fast course, and if the weather is right, it's definitely a place to PR. I'll go back next year properly prepared.

1:30:00 is awesome. That's my goal for my next half. Awesome work.

 

[Sand]

1:30 is so stinkin' fast. Running that sort of time on a less than stellar day is badass.

What's depressing is that I ran two of them back-to-back when I went sub-3 last October. Granted, I was properly trained and tapered, and the weather was perfect, but still...

----

Great race, 2Y. You killed the swim! You know there have been sales of the 310XT around lately...

 

[Sean]

2Young - great race and awesome swim!

gruecd - 1:30 on tired legs?

 

[2Young2BBald]

Great race, 2Y. You killed the swim!

Thanks GB, means a lot coming from you. 1:40s per was way more than I could have expected. There was a MI pro out there racing as a training event yesterday that did the swim in 16:26

 

[gruecd]

1:30:00 is awesome. That's my goal for my next half. Awesome work.

Thanks, and good luck. I honestly think I've got 1:25x or faster in me. One of these years I'll do a dedicated half marathon cycle and actually approach one of these things as a goal race. Maybe I'll do that next year after Boston and really try to kill it in Duluth.

 

[MAC_32]

When building your schedule, build it around the core 3 (speed/intervals, tempo, long) and then insert your rest/recovery days. I wouldn't entirely rearrange what you originally had. It was good, just needed a tweak or 2. I again take a page from BnB and think being fresh is key for these 5K races. I'd take 2 days of total rest before the race. Especially given the fact that you've been hammering a lot of speedwork. Give your body an extra day to get totally healed up for race day.Today - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Saturday - 3mi Recovery @ 8:30Sunday - 9mi Long @ 8:00Monday - 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Tuesday - Sprint intervals (not sure what you're doing, but you obviously know how to do this part )Wednesday - Total rest or 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Thursday - 8mi @ 8:30Friday - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Saturday - 3mi Recovery @ 8:30Sunday - 5K trialMonday - Total rest or 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Tuesday - SprintWednesday - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Thursday - 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Friday - RestSaturday - RestSunday - Race

New plan, printed.

Went a little too fast on the 3 mi today - clocked it in 19 mins on the nose - close though. Both the warm up and cool down were about 9 min miles.

9 mile long run yesterday got shot. Walked 18 holes Saturday after my recovery run (not unusual), but it was at the hilliest course in the area (unusual) and listening to my body it advised me to make yesterday my rest day and push everything back. So...Monday - 9mi Long @ 8:00Tuesday - 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Wednesday - Sprint intervals Thursday - RestFriday - 8mi @ 8:00Saturday - 3mi Recovery @ 8:30Sunday - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Monday - RestTuesday - 5k trial (golfing 18 prior - hilly, think we have to take a cart though)Wednesday - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Thursday - 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Friday - RestSaturday - Rest (walking 18 - MUCH less hilly)Sunday - Race

 

[MAC_32]

Well, I did my part to get the FFA off to a good weekend at my local 10K. Probably only about 50 runners total and results won't be posted online for a few days, but I managed to come in 2nd in my AG (probably last in my AG too) with a 46:24. I had to look up my previous PR right before I walked out the door -- it was 47:55 all the way back in 2009, so this was about a 90 second PR.

Mile 1: 7:21 -- went out a little fast.

Mile 2: 7:35 -- this mile was mostly into a headwind, and I figured it would probably be my slowest mile if all went well.

Mile 3: 7:27

Mile 4: 7:30

Mile 5: 7:28

Mile 6: 7:28

Final 0.22 -- 1:37 (7:15 pace)

Overal average: 7:28/mi

Obviously I'm happy with this, but I know this time is still a little soft. Give me a crisp morning in late October instead of an 80 degree evening in mid-June and I'm real confident I put up a 45x.

Good luck to everybody else racing this weekend. Especially gruecd, who could use some mojo.

Consider it a motivational goal for October. Killed it.

 

[MAC_32]

Need some advice. My running right now is kind of rudderless, meaning I have no real direction or objective to it other than to just get out and run. I decided to do a HM training course and am trying to decide which one I should do

Novice 2 or

Intermediate?

I'm leaning toward the intermediate schedule. I can handle the distances, at least up to week 4-5 now just have never really pushed myself. Novice 2 is probably closer to what I do now and I just don't want to get bored with it. Running 400's would require me to find someplace to run them, local HS is about 6 miles away so time becomes a factor in the mornings. Any thoughts or suggestions?

This is the easiest question ever. If you feel rudderless and you're looking for a spark, don't pick the plan that already puts you on week 5. Do the one that pushes you and introduces new stuff to your training routine. You don't say whether you're actually planning to run a HM or not -- it's not that hard to incorporate speedwork into your schedule even if you're not really training for anything in particular. Maybe the intermediate program gives you some ideas that can become a new normal for you.You're relatively new to this thread, but if you're shopping for HM programs and looking for an itch to scratch, you really need to read Pete Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning. This book has been referenced a million times in this tread. Don't be put off by the title. This book is incredibly useful for people who might never run a single marathon ever. Pfitz does a stellar job explaining the whys and hows of various types of training, obviously with an eye toward 26.2, but it all carries over to other distances. If you buy this book and read the first several chapters and don't feel like you got your money's worth, PM me and I will send you a check to cover the $20 or so that you spent on it. Seriously.

On the 400s, you can get by without a track if you have a Garmin or can find a marked 400m section of road. Of course a track is better, but we all have to make do sometimes.

 

[comfortably numb]

Grue - Crazy racing schedule! Good job man

Ivan - Way to PR! You're in a good grove

Steel Curtain - Good race, love hearing about the kids being involved

Ned - No women statue pics?? Trail looks nice!

2Young - Awesome! Will remember when I am tired on my next 5k, that you already would have swan and biked like 100 miles!

---

I hit 3miles (10.06 pace) on Saturday and got out at 630 SUN for 5miles (9.36 pace)

 

[tri-man 47]

gruecd, way to stick it out in the conditions.

2Young - impressively done! That's a really great swim time (I never got my Oly swim below 30:00). Awesome job throughout, given the heat/humidity you faced.

 

[BassNBrew]

Freshness over fitness for short races

Probably should've read this before running 15 last Sunday, 18 on the trail on Tuesday, and then trying to race a half marathon on Saturday.... Made the 5-hour drive to Duluth on Friday afternoon, getting there around 6 PM. Grabbed some pizza and a couple of beers, and hit the sack around 9 PM. Stayed in an on-campus apartment at UMD, which was good for the pocketbook, but not so good for the sleep, since it was warm and muggy, and there was no A/C. Up at 4 AM, eat a few slices of banana bread, and on the shuttle to the start line, getting there a little after 5:00. Watched the start of the men's and women's USA Half Marathon Championships (Kara ) before finally toeing the line and getting started at 6:45.It wasn't horribly warm (mid-60s) but it was hella humid, and my legs felt heavy from the start. Definitely not recovered from the two long runs, and I'm sure the long drive didn't help, either. First 5K was 21:12, and it felt way harder than that. Hit 10K in 42:45 and 10M in 1:08:46, so at least I was staying pretty consistent in the low 6:50s. Felt like crap, wanted to stop and walk a bunch of times, but reminded myself that I better learn to HTFU if I'm gonna run 50 ####### miles this November. Got a bit of a burst, and knocked out the last 5K in 21:14, finishing in exactly 1:30:00, nowhere near my PR, but still a solid effort, all things considered.This half is a flat, fast course, and if the weather is right, it's definitely a place to PR. I'll go back next year properly prepared.

13.1 is an interesting distance for you. Not really short, but not long for you.Anyway, that's some amazing consistant pacing. Congrats. I don't know how you guys do the pizza and beer thing the night before, especially in the summer. Too bad there's not an irongut category as you would smoke it.

 

[17seconds]

I also refuse to invest in a GPS/Garmin/whatever youse guys use. Maps and google are all I need.

Disagreed. If you had a "GPS/Garmin/whatever yourse guys use," you'd be able to regulate your pace a lot better than you're doing right now.

Wasn't really my point. Family's current net income can't justify a GPS/Garmin so I can better monitor my heart rate when running. If we needed it to get around it'd be one thing but we don't so it'd basically just be a heart rate monitor. Basically it's a wanted but not needed luxury that may enter the budget in 2013 once credit card debt is paid off, unfortunately something I married into...but almost out of.

Do you have a smartphone? There are free apps like RunKeeper or CardioTrainer that you can use for pacing and tracking workouts. Most people I know actually do this instead of a Garmin watch.

 

[17seconds]

Great racing this weekend guys!

I'm still in recovery mode, building up miles for my next HM in 2mos. All GA and recovery runs last week and this week. Last week I did 22 miles, this week 29. Gradually building to 50 over the next 9 weeks. Feet are doing better.

Man that Pfitz 18/55 cycle really boosted my fitness. There's a 6.5 mile run around work I hadn't done in almost a year. It ends with a 400ft climb over the last couple of miles. Used to really wipe me out. I did it last week and it felt like just a nice little run. This is really when you get into running... When a run like that feels almost like a warmup and big hills don't give you any problem, it's "just a hill".

 

[The_Man]

Here's my report from the Baltimore 10-Miler last year:

Back from my 10-miler.

Considering how little I've been training, today's effort was actually solid for me. Time was 1:25:09, pace of 8:31 per mile. First 5 mile pace was 8:34 (overall place 852), second 5 miles was 8:28 per mile (overall place 596). The final 5, especially the final 2, are pretty brutally uphill. I wasn't surprised to see my second-half placement was better - many people crashed and burned in mile 9 - but I was surprised to see I actually picked up the pace uphill.

But the thing that really hit home with me was how out of shape I've allowed myself to get. A year ago, I could have done this race at least 1 minute per mile faster. So it was frustrating for me. I never want to line up for another race knowing that I'm not anywhere close to prepared to do my best. Hopefully that feeling of frustration will help fuel me to start running again this summer. We'll see.

Time for history to repeat itself. Once again I've totally let training go out the window after a successful Fall marathon, and once again I'm hoping a disappointing effort in the Baltimore 10-Miler will get me back on track. I actually averaged an 8:19 pace this year vs. last year's 8:31, but the experience was much more brutal. I ran sub-8 miles for the first 5 and then blew up. Walked after passing the halfway mark, walked going up the big hill at Mile 6, and walked up the giant hill in Mile 9. Ugh.

Anyway, hopefully now that summer is here and life is good, I'll be able to get back into running. Congrats to all their recent good work!

 

[Sand]

Man that Pfitz 18/55 cycle really boosted my fitness. There's a 6.5 mile run around work I hadn't done in almost a year. It ends with a 400ft climb over the last couple of miles. Used to really wipe me out. I did it last week and it felt like just a nice little run. This is really when you get into running... When a run like that feels almost like a warmup and big hills don't give you any problem, it's "just a hill".

I just noticed this last night on a route I do rarely (last time was last year sometime). There is a wicked little 3/10 of a mile hill that climbs 130 ft that I can remember gasping and groaning to get to the top. Yesterday I just chugged on up.

 

[MAC_32]

I also refuse to invest in a GPS/Garmin/whatever youse guys use. Maps and google are all I need.

Disagreed. If you had a "GPS/Garmin/whatever yourse guys use," you'd be able to regulate your pace a lot better than you're doing right now.

Wasn't really my point. Family's current net income can't justify a GPS/Garmin so I can better monitor my heart rate when running. If we needed it to get around it'd be one thing but we don't so it'd basically just be a heart rate monitor. Basically it's a wanted but not needed luxury that may enter the budget in 2013 once credit card debt is paid off, unfortunately something I married into...but almost out of.

Do you have a smartphone? There are free apps like RunKeeper or CardioTrainer that you can use for pacing and tracking workouts. Most people I know actually do this instead of a Garmin watch.

Oldish Blackberry, not sure how old as I got it through work. Shockingly I'm not the most tech saavy person in the world - I still carry my ipod in my hand instead of using one of those straps. I imagine I'd need something similar for my phone because unlike my ancient ipod (sometimes I wonder how it still functions) I care if sweat drenches my phone! I'll take a peak though and see if it is feasible.

 

[sho nuff]

Question for guys that do tris.

Im still trying to decide whether to sign up for one. What is the breakdown of your training in relationship to run, bike, swim

Im really getting used to my running training and would love to do a marathon. Just got an email about Hartford on Oct 13th. If I do the Tri, will it hamper my ability to train for Hartford?

Im also not looking to ruin my marriage. My wife loves that I am fit again and healthy but she hates long runs that take me out of the picture most of the day. Im trying to juggle everything and be most time efficient.

In my opinion, it helps. My aerobic fitness took off once I started swimming. No matter what I do now, I am never really out of breath. My legs go way before my lungs. And, it allows for forced cross training, taking the strain of just running out of the mix. When I am sticking to a true tri training regimen, its 6 workouts a week, 2 of each discipline. I like doing brick work, more than one workout back to back. Traditional bricks are bike/run combos, but I mix things up and do some swim/run bricks as well. As for the impact on your marriage, tris are way more spectator friendly. My wife loves coming to watch and sherpa. In fact, shes taken up Duathlons and races these when they are offered as part of the tri events.

I found one that I may be trying next year...very short and simple just to get me to see if I would like it...http://team-magic.co...nfo.html#course

Have a friend doing this next week...I am not close to ready for such a thing so will probably give it a go next year.

Go watch your friend, or even better, volunteer. I have volunteered a few times and you learn so much watching others. Tris are way more spectator friendly than running events and the woman's tri suit are awesome.

May try to call someone this week after I check with the wife what our plans are."volunteering" sounds great.

 

[sho nuff]

80* and 60% ish humidity when I hit the track at 9:30.

Knew this would hurt...and it did.

Not sure how I did not puke after...but was close many times. (probably because I was at a middle school track and their football team was doing stairs and some sprints on the field and I wanted to be tough for the little kids...lol...one asked how far I was going when I was about done...told him I was finishing my 6th mile and his eyes got wide...told them it was one of my shorter workouts these days).

1 mile warmup 9:46...faster than I wanted to warm up...was more the first lap or so...after that I thought I had settled in to something closer to 10:15...

4 X 800 m 3:45 - 171, 3:50 - 177, 3:51 - 181, 3:44 - 184

2 X 400 m 1:46 - 180, 1:47 - 179

Jogged about 200 m between each after a short walk for some water...

1 mile cool down at 10:35 and felt slower than that.

Was going to do 6 X 800 but those 2nd laps were getting to me each time so I cut the last 2 down to 400m this time around.

Feel great afterward and am going to do some weights this afternoon and some core work.

 

[BassNBrew]

I guess this goes out to Sand and Pigskin.50 miles yesterday including the 19 mile, 3900 ft climb from Asheville to Craggy. That 19 miles has about 2 miles of flat to downhill in the mix. Here are the stats from the climb...Selection StatsDistance 18.77 miRiding Time 1:38:24Cals Burned 1447 kcal Avg MaxPower 256.4 577 WSpeed 11.4 34 mi/hWind 11.8 33 mi/hCaden 70.9 102 rpmClimbing 3596 ftElev 1861 to 5286 ftSlope -5.6 to 8.6%And the entire ride...Distance 50.82 miRiding Time 3:09:47Cals Burned 2166 kcal Avg MaxPower 199.0 577 WSpeed 16.1 40 mi/hWind 16.2 44 mi/hCaden 72.3 108 rpmClimbing 4797 ftElev 1838 to 5305 ftSlope -9.7 to 9.0%Really felt like I was climbing well.Last 5 miles of the climbDistance 5.02 miRiding Time 0:27:52Cals Burned 434 kcal Avg MaxPower 271.8 506 WSpeed 10.8 23 mi/hWind 10.8 23 mi/hCaden 68.7 88 rpmClimbing 1116 ftElev 4148 to 5286 ftSlope 0.6 to 8.6%Last 7/10's of the climbDistance 0.70 miRiding Time 0:03:50Cals Burned 75 kcal Avg MaxPower 340.4 506 WSpeed 11.1 16 mi/hWind 11.1 16 mi/hCaden 71.3 82 rpmClimbing 187 ftElev 5089 to 5279 ftSlope 1.0 to 8.6%I was trying to reach the top in under 2 hours from the start of the ride, so I burnt my last match...missed it by 30 secs.

2+ months later...Dist: 18.78 mi (1:31:31)Energy: 1457.6 kJCals Burn: 1393.5 kcalClimbing: 3562 ftBraking: -0.0 kJ (-0.0%) Min Avg MaxPower 0 265.5 475 WAero 0 36.9 727 WRolling 18 31.7 90 WGravity -912 198.5 658 WSpeed 7.1 12.3 34.8 mi/hWind 0.0 9.2 32.3 mi/hElev 1724 3321 5100 ftSlope -5.8 3.38 8.5 %Caden 4 71.0 101 rpmHR 108 151.3 167 bpmNP:278W IF:1.11 TSS:189 VI:1.05CdA: 0.397 m^2; Crr: 0.0054240 lbs; 6/16/2012 10:02 AM62 degF; 1006 mbarKnocked 7 mins off the climb time and add 9 watts.And the entire rideDist: 50.76 mi (2:56:12)Energy: 2237.9 kJCals Burn: 2139.5 kcalClimbing: 4727 ftBraking: -45.3 kJ (-2.0%) Min Avg MaxPower 0 211.7 629 WAero 0 138.1 1411 WRolling 0 44.4 105 WGravity -1411 4.1 663 WSpeed 0.0 17.3 41.0 mi/hWind 0.0 14.6 41.9 mi/hElev 1721 2975 5101 ftSlope -9.2 0.05 8.9 %Caden 0 72.6 113 rpmHR 79 138.9 167 bpm+13 watts and 15 minutes off the time.Last 5 mi of the climbDist: 5.02 mi (0:25:49)Energy: 429.0 kJCals Burn: 410.1 kcalClimbing: 1098 ftBraking: 0.0 kJ (0.0%) Min Avg MaxPower 147 277.0 424 WAero 0 18.3 258 WRolling 19 30.0 66 WGravity -255 232.3 387 WSpeed 7.4 11.7 25.5 mi/hWind 0.0 7.1 23.2 mi/hElev 3985 4514 5095 ftSlope -2.1 4.17 8.5 %Caden 55 67.7 92 rpmHR 143 157.1 167 bpm2m3s off the time, +5 watts, and almost a 1 mph faster.

 

[BassNBrew]

Saturday is my 100+ mile Blood, Sweat, and Gears ride. pr is 6:28. The route is 2 miles shorter which will knock off 7 mins. I'm going to shoot for 6:15. That's kind of an abitary number as I haven't been bike focused this year and haven't been training as hard. Kind of relying on the ultra training this winter providing some endurance gains and just being mentally tougher. I feel like I'm climbing as good as last year and hoping to come in 5-8 lbs lighter at roll out this year.

 

[Sand]

2+ months later...

Dist: 18.78 mi (1:31:31)

Energy: 1457.6 kJ

Cals Burn: 1393.5 kcal

Climbing: 3562 ft

Braking: -0.0 kJ (-0.0%)

Min Avg Max

Power 0 265.5 475 W

I know you're not 160lbs. or anything, but I'd love to see a 40k TT from you. You'd be able to hold 300W and effin' crush it.

 

[MAC_32]

9 miles, done. Did the first mile in 8:15, next 2 were faster, got a little wary and backed off the gas pedal a bit mile 4 and 5 before realizing I was still in great shape so I picked up the pace mile 6 and went after it and got faster each of the final 3 miles. Was on an even 8 minute pace when I hit mile 6 and did the last 3 in 7:40-7:30-7:10 to get in under an hour 9 mins.

Hope I'm sore tomorrow because it's going to take a lot of discipline to not take off on recovery day. Big assist to you guys for the training help!

 

[sho nuff]

9 miles, done. Did the first mile in 8:15, next 2 were faster, got a little wary and backed off the gas pedal a bit mile 4 and 5 before realizing I was still in great shape so I picked up the pace mile 6 and went after it and got faster each of the final 3 miles. Was on an even 8 minute pace when I hit mile 6 and did the last 3 in 7:40-7:30-7:10 to get in under an hour 9 mins.Hope I'm sore tomorrow because it's going to take a lot of discipline to not take off on recovery day. Big assist to you guys for the training help!

I know it sounds like a broken record...but why finish up those last 3 miles like that?Your last mile was closer to your tempo time than your long run pace. Those of us saying slow down are saying so because pushing like this too many times a week is what leads to injuries in many runners.

 

[tri-man 47]

goldenchild, please stop at the race report counter. goldenchild ...race report counter.

 

[goldenchild]

goldenchild, please stop at the race report counter. goldenchild ...race report counter.

Sorry for the late report! I wanted to give a full detailed report and between Father's Day and my wife going into labor this morning at 4:30am and delivering at 3:30pm today... I've been super busy!

Here we go...

With this being my first organized run, I didn't know what to expect logistically.

Tossed and turned the night before (too excited, perhaps?). Woke up at 5:15am and grubbed on a plain bagel loaded with peanut butter and got hydrated with H20.

Arrived at the venue by 6:40am and got a very light warmup in. I found a few friends from my gym (1 also running the 5k and the other 2 running the 5mi) and hung with them at the start.

About 7-7:10 they started to corral us into our expected pace positions. We stood around the sub8-sub9 minute area.

Lots. Of. Eye. Candy. I tried to memorize bib numbers (where they wearing bibs? )

I'm not sure what a good turn out looks like, but they announced that there were 1900+ participants between the 5k and 5mi runners. Looked like a lot to me. I was nervous because it looked like we were standing in the front 3rd of the pack and I thought I was being overzealous.

They made some announcements and then proceeded with having someone sing the national anthem.

The race starts and immediately go with the tunes... hit shuffle and the 1st song that pops up is Lenny Kravitz' Where Are We Running? That got me juiced.

I remembered tri's write up of the course ( ) so I made an effort to stick with it.

I'm not sure if I kept too fast a pace at the beginning or if my nerves were getting to me, but there were a small handful of times that I just wanted to start walking (even within the first 1/4-1/2 mile! When that happened I just slowed down just a hair and tried to get my mind off of focusing on it... telling myself it's just mental.

It seemed to work, though, because I never stopped jogging!

At around mile 2 there was a nice significant downhill that I enjoyed... but of course where there is a downhill portion there was an uphill that immediately followed. I seriously thought about starting the walk of shame at this point. What helped me was watching a 10-13 yo kid effortlessly take that hill as if he owned it.

Towards the end of the race, as we approached the bend into the stadium, I seriously mis-judged the point at which I was suppose to turn on the burners. It wasn't until I was at the last 50 yards or so when I turned it on. There were 2 guys that I could have come in before had I known. Instead, it boiled down to me or this chick for that finish. I was still at my pace when I felt/saw her pass me with 50 yards to go, so I downshifted and passed her pretty easily. That's when she kicked it up and I felt her closing the gap fast. There were about 25 more yards to go and that's when I just left it all out there. I beat her .

From that point, they cut off our timing chips and it was a walk around the perimeter of the stadium to pick up our race medals, race t-shirts, snap a pic, and then refuel with free oranges, bananas, yogurt with granola, and zico coconut water.

I hung around long enough to get the unofficial results and take some pics with my friends.

Unofficial:

100 overall (of 935), 14th in my age group of 66 participants (30-34) at 27:01

Then the official was telling everyone that the times are as much as 20 secs off because their posted info was based on the start clock (so it is only accurate for those at the front of the pack at the start).

Official:

101 overall (of 935), 14th in my age group at 26:37 (now my PR by default).

I am very happy with those results, considering how crappy my planning/preparation was leading up to the event. The longest distance I ran in the 6 months of "training" I did was 1.5 miles. I was pretty much just running 1-1.5miles after my weight training and calling that training for my 5k. I would love to see how improved I could be using a lot of your guys' advice in this thread.

The SF full/half/10k/5k is coming up in September and everything but the half is sold out. No way am I ready for a half.

I had such a blast participating in this event. I will be looking for another one to run for sure in the near future.

I think I would like to focus on the 5k event to improve my PR before I get into anything longer. By the way... the top finisher in the 5k ran 16:44

I think I've written way more than you guys were interested in. I may have even left out some stuff I shouldn't have. Feel free to throw questions my way.

My next few days will be pretty busy with the new addition to the fam, but I'll check in when I get some free time.

Thanks to everyone in this thread that gave advice (both direct and indirectly). This thread rocks.

 

[Ned]

First off, congrats on the baby, golden! Certainly understand that taking priority over the nerds. Second, congrats on poppin' your race cherry! You learned a few good lessons at that race. The biggest being the mental part of the game. You discovered pretty quickly that a lot of this is mental. People can withstand a lot more pain than they initially realize. Good job not getting chicked! If you let her beat you at the finish, you'd never live it down here...

 

[Ned]

Woke up at 4:30 to get my 9mi GA in today. 65 and muggy, but much better than a lunch time run would've been. Legs were surprisingly still sore from Sunday. They had that 'in the middle of marathon training' feel to them. I have to say, running these early AM runs in the Summer almost feels like cheating. It's infinitely easier. About a mile in I knew it was going to be one of those 'locked in' runs. Pacing was very crisp and effortless. Ended up at 8:44/151

 

[comfortably numb]

goldenchild, please stop at the race report counter. goldenchild ...race report counter.

Sorry for the late report! I wanted to give a full detailed report and between Father's Day and my wife going into labor this morning at 4:30am and delivering at 3:30pm today... I've been super busy!

Here we go...

With this being my first organized run, I didn't know what to expect logistically.

Tossed and turned the night before (too excited, perhaps?). Woke up at 5:15am and grubbed on a plain bagel loaded with peanut butter and got hydrated with H20.

Arrived at the venue by 6:40am and got a very light warmup in. I found a few friends from my gym (1 also running the 5k and the other 2 running the 5mi) and hung with them at the start.

About 7-7:10 they started to corral us into our expected pace positions. We stood around the sub8-sub9 minute area.

Lots. Of. Eye. Candy. I tried to memorize bib numbers (where they wearing bibs? )

I'm not sure what a good turn out looks like, but they announced that there were 1900+ participants between the 5k and 5mi runners. Looked like a lot to me. I was nervous because it looked like we were standing in the front 3rd of the pack and I thought I was being overzealous.

They made some announcements and then proceeded with having someone sing the national anthem.

The race starts and immediately go with the tunes... hit shuffle and the 1st song that pops up is Lenny Kravitz' Where Are We Running? That got me juiced.

I remembered tri's write up of the course ( ) so I made an effort to stick with it.

I'm not sure if I kept too fast a pace at the beginning or if my nerves were getting to me, but there were a small handful of times that I just wanted to start walking (even within the first 1/4-1/2 mile! When that happened I just slowed down just a hair and tried to get my mind off of focusing on it... telling myself it's just mental.

It seemed to work, though, because I never stopped jogging!

At around mile 2 there was a nice significant downhill that I enjoyed... but of course where there is a downhill portion there was an uphill that immediately followed. I seriously thought about starting the walk of shame at this point. What helped me was watching a 10-13 yo kid effortlessly take that hill as if he owned it.

Towards the end of the race, as we approached the bend into the stadium, I seriously mis-judged the point at which I was suppose to turn on the burners. It wasn't until I was at the last 50 yards or so when I turned it on. There were 2 guys that I could have come in before had I known. Instead, it boiled down to me or this chick for that finish. I was still at my pace when I felt/saw her pass me with 50 yards to go, so I downshifted and passed her pretty easily. That's when she kicked it up and I felt her closing the gap fast. There were about 25 more yards to go and that's when I just left it all out there. I beat her .

From that point, they cut off our timing chips and it was a walk around the perimeter of the stadium to pick up our race medals, race t-shirts, snap a pic, and then refuel with free oranges, bananas, yogurt with granola, and zico coconut water.

I hung around long enough to get the unofficial results and take some pics with my friends.

Unofficial:

100 overall (of 935), 14th in my age group of 66 participants (30-34) at 27:01

Then the official was telling everyone that the times are as much as 20 secs off because their posted info was based on the start clock (so it is only accurate for those at the front of the pack at the start).

Official:

101 overall (of 935), 14th in my age group at 26:37 (now my PR by default).

I am very happy with those results, considering how crappy my planning/preparation was leading up to the event. The longest distance I ran in the 6 months of "training" I did was 1.5 miles. I was pretty much just running 1-1.5miles after my weight training and calling that training for my 5k. I would love to see how improved I could be using a lot of your guys' advice in this thread.

The SF full/half/10k/5k is coming up in September and everything but the half is sold out. No way am I ready for a half.

I had such a blast participating in this event. I will be looking for another one to run for sure in the near future.

I think I would like to focus on the 5k event to improve my PR before I get into anything longer. By the way... the top finisher in the 5k ran 16:44

I think I've written way more than you guys were interested in. I may have even left out some stuff I shouldn't have. Feel free to throw questions my way.

My next few days will be pretty busy with the new addition to the fam, but I'll check in when I get some free time.

Thanks to everyone in this thread that gave advice (both direct and indirectly). This thread rocks.

Awesome man!Congrats on the baby and the successful race.

Get on it and find another race!

you gotta get in on at least the 10k in SF.

This could be you

LINK

 

[comfortably numb]

9 miles, done. Did the first mile in 8:15, next 2 were faster, got a little wary and backed off the gas pedal a bit mile 4 and 5 before realizing I was still in great shape so I picked up the pace mile 6 and went after it and got faster each of the final 3 miles. Was on an even 8 minute pace when I hit mile 6 and did the last 3 in 7:40-7:30-7:10 to get in under an hour 9 mins.Hope I'm sore tomorrow because it's going to take a lot of discipline to not take off on recovery day. Big assist to you guys for the training help!

How old are you Mac?